What is the state of the dead in the afterlife?

[St. SteVen]

Ecclesiastes 9:10
New International Version
Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.

• Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might,
• for in the realm of the dead, where you are going,
• there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.
• doesn't the words explain the dead going somewhere and neither working nor planning nor wisdom, will be their? If their is no planning, knowledge and wisdom does that sound like these ones are alive?

It's poetry.
The two halves balance each other out.
1) Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, (under the sun, in the physical realm)
2) where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.
(when you leave the physical realm you will be done with physical activities under the sun)

Therefore, Whatever your hand finds to do, under the sun, in the physical realm, do it with all your might.

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[St. SteVen]

Starting with Genesis these words are not explained, but there is words explained in the book of Genesis, they just don't agree with these words:

What is your definition of physical death?
What is your definition of physical life?
What is your definition of spiritual death?
What is your definition of spiritual life?

Can a person be physically alive but spiritually dead? (yes)
Can a person be physically alive and spiritually alive? (yes)
Can a person be physically dead and spiritually dead? (yes)
Can a person be physically dead and spiritually alive? (yes)

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[Aunty Jane]

That is a reference to physical death.
Nothing to do with the state of the dead in the afterlife.

There is no “afterlife” mentioned in the Bible......nor are the words “immortal soul” found in a single passage of Scripture......by assuming what is taught in all false religion, you perpetuate the devil’s first lie....

The Scriptures teach that death is the end of life, not a continuation of it.

Unless you understand what the Bible has always taught about death and resurrection, rather than the many adoptions that Christendom took from false worship, you will continue to stumble over this belief.

There are 29 references to the "realm of the dead" in the NIV translation.
Two of them are in Acts chapter 2 and one is in Ecclesiastes 9:10

BibleGateway - Keyword Search: realm of the dead

www.biblegateway.com

The NIV is not the most accurate translation, and it is always helpful to use a resource that allows you to see how other translations render a passage or verse in context.

Let me quote the first one on that list....
Revelation 20:13
“The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done.”

Where are the dead in that verse? There is the “sea” where we know some are “buried”...not in the ground, but in the ocean. Naval vessels buried many at sea because they had to. But it is not a permanent “grave” if the sea yields up her dead.

What about those in “hades”? Sheol is translated as “hades” in Greek, and this word in Hebrew is often translated into English as “the grave”.....not the individual grave of any one person, but the common grave of all mankind...the “abode” or “realm of the dead”.

What is this “realm”? It is a place where all humans go when they stop breathing. It is defined as....
“the region, sphere, or domain within which anything occurs, prevails, or dominates”. (Dictionary.com)
Adam was told that “he” would die and that “he” would “return to the dust” from which he was created.

In ancient times the dead were buried, or if they were wealthy, they had a tomb carved out of the rock as their final resting place. So “in the heart of the earth” meant being buried in the ground, or in a place carved out of the earth....a place of concealment.

Where was Lazarus before Jesus resurrected him? What did his sister say that she believed about her brother’s future. Read the whole account and see that there was no “immortal soul” ever mentioned ......Lazarus was said by Jesus to be “sleeping” in his tomb. (John 11:1-44)

He came out of his tomb, still wrapped in his grave clothes. He said nothing about being alive somewhere else.....because he was mortal and had died.....Jesus gave him back his life....he did not pluck him from the spiritual realm or paradise or anywhere else, to bring him back to this life, only to die again later from some other cause. He was still very much a mortal soul, still subject to death.

You can take apart every other mention of “Sheol” in the Hebrew Scriptures and come to the same conclusion. Jews did not believe in an afterlife.....only in resurrection, which they believed would take place under Messiah’s future Kingdom....the dead are not alive....no matter how much we wish they were.

 

[St. SteVen]

My point is Ecclesiastes 12:7 can be taken different ways, it all depends which word you select to use: wind, breath or spirit or all three. Which word would you select if you wanted to agree with the majority of scriptures in the Bible, that are clearly explained?

I don't base my beliefs on the minority of scriptures, I base my beliefs on the majority of scriptures that is clearly in agreement and make sense with each-other.

Why would you assume that the spirit that returns to God (who gave it) has no identity, memory, consciousness or substance?
When the final judgement takes place, who or what is being evaluated?

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[St. SteVen]

What is this “realm”?

It's not unconscious nonexistence.

Isaiah 14:9-11 NIV
The realm of the dead below is all astir
to meet you at your coming;
it rouses the spirits of the departed to greet you—
all those who were leaders in the world;
it makes them rise from their thrones—
all those who were kings over the nations.
10 They will all respond,
they will say to you,
“You also have become weak, as we are;
you have become like us.”
11 All your pomp has been brought down to the grave,
along with the noise of your harps;
maggots are spread out beneath you
and worms cover you.

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[St. SteVen]

What is this “realm”?

Ezekiel 31:14-16 NIV
Therefore no other trees by the waters are ever to tower proudly on high, lifting their tops above the thick foliage. No other trees so well-watered are ever to reach such a height; they are all destined for death, for the earth below, among mortals who go down to the realm of the dead.
15 “‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: On the day it was brought down to the realm of the dead I covered the deep springs with mourning for it; I held back its streams, and its abundant waters were restrained. Because of it I clothed Lebanon with gloom, and all the trees of the field withered away. 16 I made the nations tremble at the sound of its fall when I brought it down to the realm of the dead to be with those who go down to the pit. Then all the trees of Eden, the choicest and best of Lebanon, the well-watered trees, were consoled in the earth below.

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[St. SteVen]

What is this “realm”?

Ezekiel 32:21-23 NIV
From within the realm of the dead the mighty leaders will say of Egypt and her allies, ‘They have come down and they lie with the uncircumcised, with those killed by the sword.’
22 “Assyria is there with her whole army; she is surrounded by the graves of all her slain, all who have fallen by the sword. 23 Their graves are in the depths of the pit and her army lies around her grave. All who had spread terror in the land of the living are slain, fallen by the sword.

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[walter]

It's poetry.
The two halves balance each other out.
1) Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, (under the sun, in the physical realm)
2) where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.
(when you leave the physical realm you will be done with physical activities under the sun)

Therefore, Whatever your hand finds to do, under the sun, in the physical realm, do it with all your might.

[

The scripture does not explain this you are: (under the sun, in the physical realm)

 

[walter]

death

I understand there is a physical death, and if your name is in the book of life that person will be resurrected, and if your name is not in the book of life you will be resurrected to condemnation.

 

[Aunty Jane]

@St. SteVen ...... I have an appointment, but would like to take those other scriptures apart and discuss them from a Jewish point of view......I’ll be back.

Please remember that Jesus was Jewish and taught from Jewish Scripture.....

 

[St. SteVen]

The scripture does not explain this you are: (under the sun, in the physical realm)

The entire book of Ecclesiastes is about what happens under the sun.
Where do you suppose that is? (the physical realm)
Do you take verse 4 literally? Will the earth remain forever?

Ecclesiastes 1:2-4 NIV
“Meaningless! Meaningless!”
says the Teacher.
“Utterly meaningless!
Everything is meaningless.”
3 What do people gain from all their labors
at which they toil under the sun?
4 Generations come and generations go,
but the earth remains forever.

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[St. SteVen]

... if your name is not in the book of life you will be resurrected to condemnation.

Resurrected from where?
What is resurrected?

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[St. SteVen]

I understand there is a physical death

What do the physically dead know and understand?
Nothing. They are physically dead.

Where did they go?
Their spirit returned to God who gave it.
What is that spirit composed of?

What will be resurrected?
From where will it be resurrected?

Who will be judged at the final judgment?
What will they be composed of?

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[St. SteVen]

Please remember that Jesus was Jewish and taught from Jewish Scripture.....

Which includes 27 references to the realm of the dead.

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[walter]

Why would you assume that the spirit that returns to God (who gave it) has no identity, memory, consciousness or substance?
When the final judgement takes place, who or what is being evaluated?

[

Because the scripture explains that mankind and animals all have the one [ spirit, breath or wind ].

The Bible does not explain the spirit/breath/wind is a spiritual body or a alive person in any form.
But the Bible does explain "You surely will die" "Dust you will return" and Jesus says:

John 5:28-29
New International Version
“Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

 

[walter]

What do the physically dead know and understand?
Nothing. They are physically dead.

Where did they go?
Their spirit returned to God who gave it.
What is that spirit composed of?

What will be resurrected?
From where will it be resurrected?

Who will be judged at the final judgment?
What will they be composed of?

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Read each scripture please: post #168

What is the state of the dead in the afterlife?

The way you explain it sounds reasonable to me, but myself [ I like to let the Bible do most of the talking and explaining ] of any details that are beneficial. 2 Timothy 3:16-17, John 17:17, Acts 17:11, Romans 15:4 I did not give you many of the scriptures coverring what I said. However, they...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[walter]

What do the physically dead know and understand?
Nothing. They are physically dead.

Where did they go?
Their spirit returned to God who gave it.
What is that spirit composed of?

What will be resurrected?
From where will it be resurrected?

Who will be judged at the final judgment?
What will they be composed of?

[

I have already listed all the scriptures I use to support my belief. They are all listed here on post #168

What is the state of the dead in the afterlife?

The way you explain it sounds reasonable to me, but myself [ I like to let the Bible do most of the talking and explaining ] of any details that are beneficial. 2 Timothy 3:16-17, John 17:17, Acts 17:11, Romans 15:4 I did not give you many of the scriptures coverring what I said. However, they...

www.christianityboard.com

Disregard any of the words I have on the post, please only regard the scriptures as truth - none of my words are valuable.

Thanks for all your time on this subject, I think I am finished on this subject. I don't see any value debating over this word or that word, we both have presented why we believe something, and I believe that's it.

Thank you very much Peace and Happiness be with you and your family.

 

[St. SteVen]

Because the scripture explains that mankind and animals all have the one [ spirit, breath or wind ].

The Bible does not explain the spirit/breath/wind is a spiritual body or a alive person in any form.
But the Bible does explain "You surely will die" "Dust you will return" and Jesus says:

John 5:28-29
New International Version
“Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

How is it that dust will hear a voice? Does dust have ears?

John 5:28
New International Version
“Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice

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[St. SteVen]

... none of my words are valuable.

Not if you know what you are talking about.
Why would you devalue yourself?
Did the church teach you that?

It's not too difficult to conjure up a lot of nonsense from the scriptures.

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[St. SteVen]

It's not too difficult to conjure up a lot of nonsense from the scriptures.

If you can't explain it in your own words, you have NOTHING.

[