What is the state of the dead in the afterlife?

[Jack]

'Death' NEVER means 'cease to exist' in the Bible. NEVER!

Revelation 20:12-15
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.
13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[St. SteVen]

'Death' NEVER means 'cease to exist' in the Bible. NEVER!

Finally, something we can agree on. - LOL

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[walter]

Death

2 PETER 3:8
KJ21
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing: that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Why does the Bible even have these words? "you shall surely die" "dust you shall return" "The dead no nothing" Ecc. 9:5 "Those who sleep in the earth will rise up" Isaiah 26:19 "Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake" Daniel 12:2-3 "And I will raise them up at the last day" NIV John 6:44 "And you, Daniel, go rest to the end, and you shall rise in your time at the end of days." Daniel 12:13 Peshitta Holy Bible

Should these words be included in our understanding of what is true?

 

[St. SteVen]

Should these words be included in our understanding of what is true?

As long as we understand that every one of them is in reference to a physical earthly view.
They say nothing about the substance of the human soul and spirit in the afterlife.

Where did Jesus go when He died? (after the Ascension)
He said the disciples would be with him there.

John 8:14 NIV
Jesus answered, “Even if I testify on my own behalf,
my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going.
But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going.

John 14:2 NIV
My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so,
would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you?

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[walter]

Where did Jesus go when He died? (after the Ascension)
He said the disciples would be with him there.

Wouldn't the disciples have to die first before they we're resurrected to the heavens?

John 8:14 NIV
Jesus answered, “Even if I testify on my own behalf,
my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going.
But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going.

Same thing, wouldn't the disciples have to die first before they we're resurrected to the heavens?

John 14:2 NIV
My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so,
would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you?

I would think Jesus was going to prepare a place for them in the near future before any one of the disciples died.

Jesus told Mary do not touch me for I have not yet ascended to my Father..

 

[walter]

As long as we understand that every one of them is in reference to a physical earthly view.
They say nothing about the substance of the human soul and spirit in the afterlife.

You are explaining this.... not the scriptures. If the Bible wanted to add this detail, don't you think it would have?

Shouldn't the Bible be allowed to explain things the way it wants to?

Why does the Bible even have these words? "you shall surely die" "dust you shall return" "The dead no nothing" Ecc. 9:5 "Those who sleep in the earth will rise up" Isaiah 26:19 "Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake" Daniel 12:2-3 "And I will raise them up at the last day" NIV John 6:44 "And you, Daniel, go rest to the end, and you shall rise in your time at the end of days." Daniel 12:13 Peshitta Holy Bible

 

[walter]

You are explaining this.... not the scriptures. If the Bible wanted to add this detail, don't you think it would have?

Shouldn't the Bible be allowed to explain things the way it wants to?

Why does the Bible even have these words? "you shall surely die" "dust you shall return" "The dead no nothing" Ecc. 9:5 "Those who sleep in the earth will rise up" Isaiah 26:19 "Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake" Daniel 12:2-3 "And I will raise them up at the last day" NIV John 6:44 "And you, Daniel, go rest to the end, and you shall rise in your time at the end of days." Daniel 12:13 Peshitta Holy Bible

I think it's nice on this forum that we can talk about what we believe in and the reasons why we believe it, but the arguing back and forth I think is counter productive.

Wouldn't you rather people understand what you believe and your reasons why you believe it, rather than pages of debates?

 

[walter]

As long as we understand that every one of them is in reference to a physical earthly view.
They say nothing about the substance of the human soul and spirit in the afterlife.

Where did Jesus go when He died? (after the Ascension)
He said the disciples would be with him there.

John 8:14 NIV
Jesus answered, “Even if I testify on my own behalf,
my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going.
But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going.

John 14:2 NIV
My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so,
would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you?

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When the Bible says you will surely die, doesn't that sound final?

And when Jesus says he will judge and raise them up on the last day, isn't Jesus words clear here too?

 

[St. SteVen]

When the Bible says you will surely die, doesn't that sound final?

What sort of death did A&E die the day they ate thereof?
Was it final?

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[walter]

What sort of death did A&E die the day they ate thereof?

Yes, I believe so, they started with the opportunity to live forever isn't that why God told them you will surely die.
They lost their everlasting life, so they died eventually. If they would have kept on living that means they still have their everlasting life and the serpent was telling the truth and not deceiving Eve.

 

[St. SteVen]

Yes, I believe so, they started with the opportunity to live forever isn't that why God told them you will surely die.
They lost their everlasting life, so they died eventually. If they would have kept on living that means they still have their everlasting life and the serpent was telling the truth and not deceiving Eve.

No, that's not what it means.
Death (of some kind) came as a result of eating thereof.
Not as a natural consequence of their mortality.

What kind of death did they die in the day they ate thereof?

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[walter]

No, that's not what it means.
Death (of some kind) came as a result of eating thereof.
Not as a natural consequence of their mortality.

What kind of death did they die in the day they ate thereof?

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Why would God explain to them anything if they were going to live on anyway?

I am happy today I'm going home from the hospital.

 

[walter]

Jesus says: at John 5:28-29
“Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

"And you, Daniel, go rest to the end, and you shall rise in your time at the end of days." Daniel 12:13 Peshitta Holy Bible

But your dead will live, LORD; their bodies will rise— let those who dwell in the dust wake up and shout for joy— your dew is like the dew of the morning; the earth will give birth to her dead. Isaiah 26:19 NIV

Job 14:13
O that in the Grave you would conceal me, That you would hide me until your anger passes by, That you would set a time limit for me and remember me!

 

[St. SteVen]

Why would God explain to them anything if they were going to live on anyway?

They obviously didn't die in the day they ate thereof. Not physically anyway.

What kind of death did they die in the day they ate thereof?

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[walter]

They obviously didn't die in the day they ate thereof. Not physically anyway.

What kind of death did they die in the day they ate thereof?

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One day is like a thousand years to God, the bible says, within a thousand years they did die. 2 Peter 3:8

I don't understand sometimes the way Jesus talks and why the Bible expresses things a certain way, but still the majority of scripture provide certain details, and I believe these details fit together and should be included in understanding of Bible subjects.

 

[Aunty Jane]

They obviously didn't die in the day they ate thereof. Not physically anyway.

What kind of death did they die in the day they ate thereof?

I can only imagine the reasons why you hold onto what the Bible does not...and never has...taught about death. Why is this immortal soul idea promoted in all false religion?.....but not in the original Jewish faith....and certainly not in what the Jewish Jesus taught?

What kind of death did Adam and his wife die the day they disobeyed their Creator?......they experienced a spiritual death...a complete separation from God.....sin for which there was no basis for forgiveness, because perfect beings do not make mistakes, they make deliberate choices.
It was after their sin that God introduced a rescue mission to save their children from the awful inheritance passed on to them.
Adam and wife are in Gehenna...a death from which no resurrection is possible.

Death is an opposite of life, like thousands of other “opposites” that we deal with every day....it’s the nature of God’s creation, all in perfect balance, that we accept in all those natural opposites....yet this one is denied point blank, despite all the Scripture presented to show that death is a state on unconsciousness.....with no ability to plan, to act on knowledge or to participate in any activity (Eccl 9:5, 10) in the only place God told the Jews was their natural home....planet earth.

It was not a temporary dwelling place, nor was it designed to be a training ground for heaven.....it was designed to be man’s permanent home. We were not created to die, but programmed to go on living “forever” right here where God birthed us. (Gen 3:22-24) When did God change that plan? (Isa 55:11)
Was he going to allow rebellion among his children to interfere with his original purpose for us here?

Just because God chose some for a specific role in heaven doesn’t mean that we all go there. (Rev 20:6)
“The dead will rise” but first, they “sleep”......this is what the Bible teaches, but if that’s not what you want to believe, then you are free to believe whatever you wish......it will make no difference to the outcome.

We can debate this till the cows come home, but the truth is the truth...like it or not.

 

[St. SteVen]

I can only imagine the reasons why you hold onto what the Bible does not...

Is one of those reasons because there are differing views on these things?
(I didn't think so)

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[St. SteVen]

We can debate this till the cows come home, but the truth is the truth...like it or not.

Meaning YOUR truth?
(that's convenient)

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[Aunty Jane]

Meaning YOUR truth?
(that's convenient)

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What is your truth?
We will all be judged on what we accept as truth.....so, where will we find it? Is it lying around everywhere that’s obvious? Or is it buried under a mountain of lies and deception......who was responsible for that do you think?
God has provided all that we need to dig for what is buried.....but the shovel doesn’t dig deep enough for most people whose knowledge of the Scriptures is very superficial especially when relying on Christendom’s Bible scholars to provide what you want to hear, rather than what you need to know.

There is only an inconvenient truth that “few” find, and hang on to because it’s a difficult “road less travelled”, (Matt 7:13-14)...or there are the convenient lies that people like to “shop” for in a vast ‘celestial supermarket’ of confusion.....those who like to make up their own faith so that they settle for what will make them happy.

Is that how God works?
Why are only “few” on the “road to life” whilst the majority are on the “road to destruction”?
It means that we only have two choices.....the right path or the wrong one.
We are either “sheep” or “goats”. What are we choosing to be?

Who alone can “draw” us to his truth and separate us from the doomed majority? (John 6:44; 65)
What is he looking for in us, rather than what we are looking for in Him? This is the question we need to ask.

 

[St. SteVen]

What is he looking for in us, rather than what we are looking for in Him? This is the question we need to ask.

We'll never be good enough or measure up.
I thought that was the point of grace and mercy.

Luke 18:13 NIV
“But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven,
but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

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