What Is the strongest argument for atheism?

[Matthias]

William Lane Craig offers his opinion on what the strongest argument for atheism is in this 4 minute video.

Why should theists care about arguments for atheism?

Is there a stronger argument for atheism than the one identified by Dr. Craig?

 

[Jericho]

I don't know about the arguments for atheism, but the argument posed presumes that God may not have good reasons for making Himself obscure. It seems to me there is no better test of character than seeing how someone behaves when they don't think God or anyone else is looking. And maybe it's not just so that God knows how we really are, but that we know it also. That may not be the only reason; I'm sure there could be many others that we can only speculate about.

 

[marks]

I don't know about the arguments for atheism, but the argument posed presumes that God may not have good reasons for making Himself obscure. It seems to me there is no better test of character than seeing how someone behaves when they don't think God or anyone else is looking. And maybe it's not just so that God knows how we really are, but that we know it also. That may not be the only reason; I'm sure there could be many others that we can only speculate about.

Those engendering arguments in favor of atheism not only violate the forum rules against being a "devil's advocate", but likewise embrace foolishness trying to impose their own rules on their Creator.

It's the fool who says there is no God. Shall we celebrate the words of fools?

Much love!

 

[Bob]

Thanks for posting. This presentation is excellent, not just in giving the evidence for His existence, but that theism alone is not what we need.

Why should we care? It is good for us to be able to defend our faith, not only for ourselves, but there is always the possibility we could convert an agnostic.

As to “stronger“ arguments for: we occasionally hear/read the glib “if there is a good God, why is there so much suffering in the world?” It takes patience to counter this atheist (and audience, if there is one). It is also good for us, even to ourselves from time to time, to be able to lay out the reasons cogently.

Dr. Craig is right: many atheists want to be free from moral constraints, so they shut their minds.

Blessings.

 

[marks]

Romans 1:18-25 KJV
18) For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19) Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21) Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22) Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23) And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24) Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25) Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

Everyone already knows God is real.

John 3:18-20 KJV
18) He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19) And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20) For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

They refuse to acknowledge God preferring to think they are not accountable for their evil deeds.

Much love!

 

[Matthias]

Thanks for posting. This presentation is excellent, not just in giving the evidence for His existence, but that theism alone is not what we need.

Why should we care? It is good for us to be able to defend our faith, not only for ourselves, but there is always the possibility we could convert an agnostic.

As to “stronger“ arguments for: we occasionally hear/read the glib “if there is a good God, why is there so much suffering in the world?” It takes patience to counter this atheist (and audience, if there is one). It is also good for us, even to ourselves from time to time, to be able to lay out the reasons cogently.

Dr. Craig is right: many atheists want to be free from moral constraints, so they shut their minds.

Blessings.

I’m currently reading And God Created Lenin: Marxism vs. Religion in Russia, 1917-1929, written by Paul Gabel. This thread was inspired by something I read in the book about an atheist named Vissarion Belinsky (1811-1848) :

“Like most of the exiled revolutionaries, he had moved from belief to non-belief. Also like the others, he was propelled by the existence of suffering. While the Orthodox Church nurtured the sense of suffering, Belinsky was appalled by it. How could a good God choose favorites, enriching some while allowing thousands to perish in famine, illness, and war? Clearly God was man’s attempt to bolster a miserable state of affairs by attaching a divine quality to it.”

(p. 64)

The Orthodox Church wasn’t able to provide him with an answer to his objection that he found persuasive. The state of the national Church made Russia ripe for the picking by revolutionary atheists.

In thinking about the objection which drove Belinsky to embrace atheism - an objection that we meet from time to time in speaking with atheists and agnostics - I found myself thinking about the strength of arguments presented by atheists (and agnostics) and did a search for “What is the strongest argument for atheism?” That search took me to Dr. Craig’s video.

I don’t think the argument identified by Dr. Craig is particularly strong but he handled it to my satisfaction and reinforced in my mind the importance of always being prepared to give an answer.

In my days as a student I had a college professor who told us in his Apologetics class: “Always look for the strongest argument you can find against your argument.” I was reminded of this when I read J. Warner Wallace’s excellent book Forensic Faith a few months ago.

If the argument identified by Dr. Craig is in fact the strongest argument against the existence of God then it shouldn’t present any problem to those who believe in the existence of God - but that takes me back to Belinsky (and others like him) who weren’t properly equipped by a weak Church.

And if it isn’t the strongest argument against the existence of God, what is?

 

[Bob]

I’m currently reading And God Created Lenin: Marxism vs. Religion in Russia, 1917-1929, written by Paul Gabel. This thread was inspired by something I read in the book about an atheist named Vissarion Belinsky (1811-1848) :

“Like most of the exiled revolutionaries, he had moved from belief to non-belief. Also like the others, he was propelled by the existence of suffering. While the Orthodox Church nurtured the sense of suffering, Belinsky was appalled by it. How could a good God choose favorites, enriching some while allowing thousands to perish in famine, illness, and war? Clearly God was man’s attempt to bolster a miserable state of affairs by attaching a divine quality to it.”

(p. 64)

The Orthodox Church wasn’t able to provide him with an answer to his objection that he found persuasive. The state of the national Church made Russia ripe for the picking by revolutionary atheists.

In thinking about the objection which drove Belinsky to embrace atheism - an objection that we meet from time to time in speaking with atheists and agnostics - I found myself thinking about the strength of arguments presented by atheists (and agnostics) and did a search for “What is the strongest argument for atheism?” That search took me to Dr. Craig’s video.

I don’t think the argument identified by Dr. Craig is particularly strong but he handled it to my satisfaction and reinforced in my mind the importance of always being prepared to give an answer.

In my days as a student I had a college professor who told us in his Apologetics class: “Always look for the strongest argument you can find against your argument.” I was reminded of this when I read J. Warner Wallace’s excellent book Forensic Faith a few months ago.

If the argument identified by Dr. Craig is in fact the strongest argument against the existence of God then it shouldn’t present any problem to those who believe in the existence of God - but that takes me back to Belinsky (and others like him) who weren’t properly equipped by a weak Church.

And if it isn’t the strongest argument against the existence of God, what is?

Thanks for the additional analysis and background.

Perhaps the strongest argument is the one each of us the most trouble answering.

Peace.

 

[Behold]

There isn't a "strong argument" FOR Atheism.
There are just deceived Atheists making arguments they can't actually prove.


See, It can't be proven that God does not exist., and to try to prove it.....you have to believe that ALL of Creation and the Divine Order of the universe, is just an accident that somehow happened over time.

 

[Matthias]

There isn't a "strong argument" FOR Atheism.

You’re preaching to the theist choir. Atheists, obviously, don’t agree.

There are just deceived Atheists making arguments they can't actually prove.

Telling atheists this does nothing to persuade them, as I’m sure you’re aware. The purpose of this thread is for theists to look for what atheists believe their strongest argument is so that theists aren’t ambushed by them.

See, It can't be proven that God does not exist., and to try to prove it.....you have to believe that ALL of Creation and the Divine Order of the universe, is just an accident that somehow happened over time.

Can it be proven that God exists?

 

[Behold]

You’re preaching to the theist choir. Atheists, obviously, don’t agree.

They ALL will agree after they die.....and some will agree before they die.
There are no Atheist's in Hell.
Hell makes a believer out of everyone who goes there. (Atheist's included).

Telling atheists this does nothing to persuade them, as I’m sure you’re aware.

I dont try to persuade atheists.
I ask them to prove that God does not exist., and they can't, and this allows the seed of doubt to remain in them, and God can use this to bring them to Faith.

Something else you can do, is ask them why Science and Hi-Tech technology, can't create a Rose from nothing.

See, all Science and Tech can do, is RE-Create a Rose.......from a seed, or a piece.....ect, ect.

Only GOD created a Rose out of NOTHING.
He did the same with the earth, and all the planets, along with the entire Universe.

Science tried to "fake it".....and they created the "Big Bang Theory".

What is that? That is Science trying to Hide from this question...

= Where did it all START.?????.......as it all began initially from NOTHING.........so, the "BB-Theory" is moving the goal-posts......its a smoke-screen, its a dodge, a deflection... that has you look away from "where did it all begin"......by having you believe that it was always there, and one day it decided to "BANG".

But the real question is......"how did nothing, begin to exist"........as that is the Proof of God, that Science tries to dodge.

Can it be proven that God exists?

Jesus votes : Yes.
He came out of the Grave to cast His ETERNAL Vote.

 

[Matthias]

They ALL will agree after they die.....and some will agree before they die.
There are no Atheist's in Hell.
Hell makes a believer out of everyone who goes there. (Atheist's included).





I dont try to persuade atheists.
I ask them to prove that God does not exist., and they can't, and this allows the seed of doubt to remain in them, and God can use this to bring them to Faith.

Something else you can do, is ask them why Science and Hi-Tech technology, can't create a Rose from nothing.

See, all Science and Tech can do, is RE-Create a Rose.......from a seed, or a piece.....ect, ect.

Only GOD created a Rose out of NOTHING.
He did the same with the earth, and all the planets, along with the entire Universe.

Science tried to "fake it".....and they created the "Big Bang Theory".

What is that? That is Science trying to Hide from this question...

= Where did it all START.?????.......as it all began initially from NOTHING.........so, the "BB-Theory" is moving the goal-posts......its a smoke-screen, its a dodge, a deflection... that has you look away from "where did it all begin"......by having you believe that it was always there, and one day it decided to "BANG".

But the real question is......"how did nothing, begin to exist"........as that is the Proof of God, that Science tries to dodge.



Jesus votes : Yes.
He came out of the Grave to cast His ETERNAL Vote.

I persuade atheists.

 

[Matthias]

They ALL will agree after they die.....and some will agree before they die.
There are no Atheist's in Hell.
Hell makes a believer out of everyone who goes there. (Atheist's included).





I dont try to persuade atheists.
I ask them to prove that God does not exist., and they can't, and this allows the seed of doubt to remain in them, and God can use this to bring them to Faith.

Something else you can do, is ask them why Science and Hi-Tech technology, can't create a Rose from nothing.

See, all Science and Tech can do, is RE-Create a Rose.......from a seed, or a piece.....ect, ect.

Only GOD created a Rose out of NOTHING.
He did the same with the earth, and all the planets, along with the entire Universe.

Science tried to "fake it".....and they created the "Big Bang Theory".

What is that? That is Science trying to Hide from this question...

= Where did it all START.?????.......as it all began initially from NOTHING.........so, the "BB-Theory" is moving the goal-posts......its a smoke-screen, its a dodge, a deflection... that has you look away from "where did it all begin"......by having you believe that it was always there, and one day it decided to "BANG".

But the real question is......"how did nothing, begin to exist"........as that is the Proof of God, that Science tries to dodge.



Jesus votes : Yes.
He came out of the Grave to cast His ETERNAL Vote.

Offered in support of your argument, from my X / Twitter “Following” feed this evening -

“How Atheism Fails To Explain A Beginning To The Universe”

(James Bishop)

https://x.com/jwarnerwallace/status/1970307170257273050?s=61

 

[pandaflower]

None are so fixated on God as those who insist he doesn't exist.

Some write books filled with hundreds of pages where they repeatedly insist they can prove a negative. While thinking themselves far more intellectual than theists for committing to that task.

 

[Matthias]

None are so fixated on God as those who insist he doesn't exist.

Some write books filled with hundreds of pages where they repeatedly insist they can prove a negative. While thinking themselves far more intellectual than theists for committing to that task.

As a practical matter, how does that knowledge help us persuade atheists?

 

[Brakelite]

Knowing a cogent logical biblical explanation for the very real suffering in the lives of those we love, and in the lives of those we don't know, is a good step in the right direction. We may not be able to adequately explain the reasons for every explicit occasion, but in general principles and for the sake of validating God's good character, we can. Caring about those who suffer, thus demonstrating experientially a quality of God's love, goes several steps further.

 

[Windmill Charge]

Can it be proven that God exists?

Depending on ones willingness to accept arguments etc, yes it can be proven that God exists.

One of the simplist arguments is that things exist. As Maria in the Sound of Music sang, " Nothing comes from Nothing, nothing ever did. "

The universe is far to complex, displays far too many examples of design to have just come into being.

The problem isnt the evidence or arguments but the unwillingness of atheiost to examine their preduices.

 

[Riven]

Answer: divine hiddenness.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Religion ! That's the strongest argument ! that an Atheist could have.

I had a mate tell me a story of late, he met some dude and questoned him, this dude turned around and said, I am an Atheist Thank god.

Old mate laughed ! about the thank god, bit.

I would say that Jesus did not come for Religion, because Religion does not Save ones Soul !

I would say that all people are religious regardless what they may claime in fact ! even the most staunch Athiest is religious in fact !
Even the Nilist is religious !

Communism is the greatest religion ? why ? because everyone must follow the gods of such or you are killed ! Islam comes 2ed to that ? and Socialism is only the first cancerous step to fall for crap like Islam and Communism.
Socialism clearly has many gods ! just as does Communism. Islam serves Mans works so it is Idolitry !

 

[quietthinker]

What Is the strongest argument for atheism?​

That God who claims to be love would torture people for eternity because they were atheists.

 

[TazzJazz]

I don't know about the arguments for atheism, but the argument posed presumes that God may not have good reasons for making Himself obscure. It seems to me there is no better test of character than seeing how someone behaves when they don't think God or anyone else is looking. And maybe it's not just so that God knows how we really are, but that we know it also. That may not be the only reason; I'm sure there could be many others that we can only speculate about.

Genesis 3:1-6 gives us some reasons why God has, for the most part, stayed out of human affairs.....
issues regarding His Sovereignty (can man rule himself by making his own decisions, or do we need God's guidance), & His truthfulness were raised. The best way to resolve those issues? Let time settle the matter.

In the meantime, He had a book written for our guidance (while He was away), He sent the Messiah (His Son) through the earthly Kingdom of Israel, and set up a heavenly Kingdom. All for our eventual everlasting benefit.