What Is the Truth About the Holy Spirit in John 16:13 in All Bibles?

[JesusIsFaithful]

Those who speak in tongues today, are they practicing it the way 1st century Christians did?

Nope. Neither are they gaining that "tongue" the way God wants them to in the way He actually was giving His gift of tongues for in the N.T. churches which was for speaking unto the people; not for private use as many wrest the scriptures to their own destruction to get out of discerning the other spirit that brought them that tongue without interpretation later on in life apart from salvation as not being the Holy Spirit and thus not of Him at all.

2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

What steadfastness was Peter talking about here? Paul mentioned it here.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

No believer can receive the Holy Spirit apart from salvation and certainly if none of the other gifts of the Spirit are hyped by seeking to receive the Holy Spirit apart from salvation, then neither is His gift of tongues which is suppsoed to be of other men's lips to speak unto the people abd certainly not serving as a sign for receiving what they believe was the Holy Spirit apart from their salvation.

1 Corinthians 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. 22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

The same way that one determines that the preacher is not preaching in order to make money.

Yes.. when they insist that not paying tithes is robbing from God's House, then they are being covetous in forcing believers to give when God wants believers to give without necessity in being cheerful givers as it is between them and God only what they want to give.

One cannot preach from the pulpit for the church to have faith in God to provide when the preacher does not have faith in God to raise up cheerful givers to provide just what is needed for the church He is ministering through.

 

[BEB1956]

Since man was created in His image and male being the established hierarchy over the woman, as Christ is over the man, then the Spirit OF God with God being male, makes the Spirit male as well in being a He in representing masculine God ( not necessarily meaning gender ).

I believe the use of "itself" was to keep that verse true in testimony because the Holy Spirit is not really giving His intercessions Himself when they are unspeakable. He does make them for us in having intercessions for us, but He cannot give them. Jesus Christ knowing the mind of the Spirit is how the intercessions of the Spirit's are known to God the Father.

So the mind of the Holy Spirit serves as a means for His intercessions to be known as He relies on the Son of God to know the mind of the Spirit, thus it cannot be Himself when He is not really giving His own intercessions, but itself as being the means by which His unspeakable intercessions are known.

So when you look at the reality of how the Holy Spirit CANNOT speak for Himself, then He cannot really be giving His intercessions by Himself but by the Son knowing the mind of the Spirit because His intercessions, although He has them, are unspeakable and thus unutterable.

That is how truth lines up in scripture...when all of them says the same thing as there can be no lie of the truth.

I will stay by the Greek grammar, which I believe too many ignore, it's as though people say that Greek grammar is meaningless and I'll never agree with that, we believe the grammar of our language to be important but not Greek. Besides God created both male and female in his image. That image or likeness had nothing to do with being male or female that image we are created in is: Love(unselfish love), kindness, forgiveness, justice, wisdom. God when he created man endowed humans with qualities that mirror his own. Hence when the Bible urges Christians to "become imitators of God," it's as if God himself is saying to them: 'I believe in you. I know that despite your imperfections, you have the ability to be like me to a certain extent.'

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

I will stay by the Greek grammar, which I believe too many ignore, it's as though people say that Greek grammar is meaningless and I'll never agree with that, we believe the grammar of our language to be important but not Greek. Besides God created both male and female in his image. That image or likeness had nothing to do with being male or female that image we are created in is: Love(unselfish love), kindness, forgiveness, justice, wisdom. God when he created man endowed humans with qualities that mirror his own. Hence when the Bible urges Christians to "become imitators of God," it's as if God himself is saying to them: 'I believe in you. I know that despite your imperfections, you have the ability to be like me to a certain extent.'

Do you use the concordance for the definitions from the Greek? If so, since we are to rely on His wisdom for discerning and understanding the written words as it is kept in the KJV, all the more for trying to read His message in the original Greek.

Pneuma has many definitions in the concordance that they all cannot be meaning the same thing for that would commit blasphemy towards the Holy Spirit. So that means per the variety of the definitions for pneuma, one has to discern how it is being used in the verse and the context of the message in order to ascertain which definition applies to pneuma in that verse.

So when it comes to discerning why itself is being used instead of Himself in regards to the Holy Spirit, it is in regards to the testimony about the Holy Spirit in His making intercessions for us, but not necessarily giving His intercessions Himself when He is serving as the means.

So is He making intercessions for us Himself in the context of the message of Romans 8:26-27? No. Then itself has to be applied by inferring that the Holy Spirit serves as the means hence by the Son knowing the mind of the Spirit for HOW the unspeakable intercessions of the Spirit's for us is known to God the Father.

 

[Windmillcharge]

Yes.. when they insist that not paying tithes is robbing from God's House, then they are being covetous in forcing believers to give when God wants believers to give without necessity in being cheerful givers as it is between them and God only what they want to give.

One cannot preach from the pulpit for the church to have faith in God to provide when the preacher does not have faith in God to raise up cheerful givers to provide just what is needed for the church He is ministering through.

It comes down to accountability. If there is need for cash it comes from the congragation, but if giving is being encouraged to support an extravagent lifestyle or pointless decorations question the minister and elders privately and publicly at the church buisness meeting about such expediture.

If there is no such meetings and questions are brushed aside, leave that church.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

It comes down to accountability. If there is need for cash it comes from the congragation, but if giving is being encouraged to support an extravagent lifestyle or pointless decorations question the minister and elders privately and publicly at the church buisness meeting about such expediture.

If there is no such meetings and questions are brushed aside, leave that church.

Well... faith without works is dead applies for what James was actually talking about when there is no faith in God to provide in raising up cheerful givers for the church to minister on.

If this was the instruction on how to give...

2 Corinthians 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

Then the church cannot look to the congregation without appearing to do so in the spirit of covetousness.

2 Corinthians 9:5 Therefore I thought it necessary to exhort the brethren, that they would go before unto you, and make up beforehand your bounty, whereof ye had notice before, that the same might be ready, as a matter of bounty, and not as of covetousness.

Paul made an order to all the churches that they were to set aside from the bounty collected for the saints in the ministry; hence the church still looking to God to raise up cheerful givers but it is from that bounty collected that the Lord has provided from cheerful givers is Who the church should look to.

How many poor members are there in the church that does not have a pension and other benefits being provided by the church for the ministers? So asking them to tithe or expecting them to give to be accountable is hardly expressing God's love towards them either and not just showing a lack of faith in God to provide for the church.

This verse below is about how families are supposed to support the widows in their own families whereas the church is to take care of those actual widows passed a certain age that have no one to take care of them.

1 Timothy 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

I doubt we see that anywhere today in churches. I am sure that the necessity to provide for widows also includes the family members too. If a poor family is suffering need, then nobody better be holding them accountable to give or any one else for that matter, unless the church as a whole has no faith in God to provide by raising up cheerful givers.

Anyway, scripture gives no accountability on the givers to give, but the church is held accountable for what the Lord has provided from cheerful givers.

 

[ScottA]

John 6:38
For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

John 6:38
For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

And Jesus testified how the Holy Spirit will not speak as if coming from Himself, but speaks what He hears as coming from the Father while Jesus was on earth and now after His ascension, the words will be coming from our Good Shepherd leading us through the Holy Spirit in us.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

The Holy Spirit's job is to bear testimony of the Son through us in how He shall lead us together with Him in glorifying the Son.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

So scripture testify that the Holy Spirit will not lead the believer to testify of Himself in seeking His own glory.

John 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.

John 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

So that's how the singular witness of the Holy Spirit's about the Son of God and thru us, our singular witness about the Son of God becomes true.

John 8:17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.

Since it is the will of the Father per His words for the Holy Spirit in us to bear witness of the Son to glorify the Son through us in ministry and in fellowship and in worship, it stands to reason why the Holy Spirit is limited from speaking from Himself about Himself in seeking His own glory through us when He would never do that in according to the will of the Father in how the Father wants us to honor the Father by.. and that is the only way by the Son of God where all of the glory of God rests on the Son.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

John 13:32 If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him.33 Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you.

So Jesus did come to do the will of the Father and that includes testifying from the Father His will and how the Holy Spirit will not speak to how He will speak only what He hears for why the Holy Spirit can never use God's gift of tongues for speaking unto the people as prophesied ( 1 Corinthians 14:20-21 ) to use it as a means for uttering His own intercessions for us when He cannot even utter His own groanings as per the KJV of Romans 8:26. That is why the Son has to know the mind of the Spirit to give the Spirit's intercessions for Him to the Father as per the KJV of Romans 8:27 which is also to the will of God because there is only One Mediator between God and men ( 1 Timothy 2:5 ).

This is so because Jesus is at that throne of grace to make intercessions for us, and to give our intercessions and the Spirit's intercessions to the Father so that when the father says "yes" to any of those intercessions, the Son answers the prayers so that the Father may be glorified in the Son for answers to prayers. ( John 14:13-14 )

So the Holy Spirit cannot give His intercessions Himself, but the Son knowing the mind of the Spirit is why "itself" is used since the mind of the Holy Spirit serves as a means by which the Son gives His "unspeakable" intercessions for the Spirit to the Father when John 16:13 plainly tells the truth in all Bible versions that the Holy Spirit cannot utter His own intercessions from Himself on His own accord.

 

[Helen]

@JesusIsFaithful

Why on earth do you have an agenda out against the things of the Holy Spirit.
You are in fact "taking on God"...but, news flash...you are no match for Him.

What has the Holy Spirit done to you, that you feel you must nullify His workings in the Body of Christ?
What you are sowing...you will also reap...
We are called to be 'for' God, not against Him.

Don't you have something better to post about?

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

@JesusIsFaithful

Why on earth do you have an agenda out against the things of the Holy Spirit.
You are in fact "taking on God"...but, news flash...you are no match for Him.

What has the Holy Spirit done to you, that you feel you must nullify His workings in the Body of Christ?
What you are sowing...you will also reap...
We are called to be 'for' God, not against Him.

Don't you have something better to post about?

It is not against the things of the Holy Spirit when scripture proves that supernatural tongue which can be found in the world ( Isaiah 8:19 & 1 John 4:5-6 ) as gibberish is not His gift of tongues when it is of other men's lips to speak unto the people as prophesied in 1 Corinthians 14:21 .

And certainly none of the gifts are gained by receiving the Holy Spirit apart from salvation when there is only one drink of the One Spirit in regards to those gifts given to profit the body withal, not individual believers ( 1 Corinthians 12:7-13 ).

The posts are written for Him in the hopes that He is peradventuring to recover some from this snare of the devil ( 1 Timothy 4:1-2 & 1 John 4:1-4 & 2 Timothy 2:15-16, & 2 Timothy 2:24-26 )

But you made up your mind about it relying on your experience and usage of that supernatural tongue rather than the reproofs from the scripture.

So I leave you in God's hands. I am not going to debate this with you.

 

[twinc]

It is not against the things of the Holy Spirit when scripture proves that supernatural tongue which can be found in the world ( Isaiah 8:19 & 1 John 4:5-6 ) as gibberish is not His gift of tongues when it is of other men's lips to speak unto the people as prophesied in 1 Corinthians 14:21 .

And certainly none of the gifts are gained by receiving the Holy Spirit apart from salvation when there is only one drink of the One Spirit in regards to those gifts given to profit the body withal, not individual believers ( 1 Corinthians 12:7-13 ).

The posts are written for Him in the hopes that He is peradventuring to recover some from this snare of the devil ( 1 Timothy 4:1-2 & 1 John 4:1-4 & 2 Timothy 2:15-16, & 2 Timothy 2:24-26 )

But you made up your mind about it relying on your experience and usage of that supernatural tongue rather than the reproofs from the scripture.

So I leave you in God's hands. I am not going to debate this with you.

Jn 14:17 is pretty clear and cannot and must not be ignored - twinc

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

Jn 14:17 is pretty clear and cannot and must not be ignored - twinc

I acknowledged what you had shared in how those believers with the Holy Spirit already in them as promised for believing in Him at the hearing of the gospel by faith and not by sight, are ignoring how the world are receiving other spirits by visible signs.

No sinner was ever prepped in receiving the promise of the Holy Spirit like that. The disciples preached the gospel. God the Father keeps His promise at each believer's salvation that they need not ever seek to receive that promise from the Father again apart from salvation, even to get "tongues" or any other gifts of the Spirit.

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Him dwelling within us since salvation is how believers can know when a spirit comes over them apart from salvation is NOT the Holy Spirit.