What is Trusting God, exactly?
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E
epouraniois
Guest
an anticdote:
Me:God, can I ask you a question?
God:Sure.
Me:Why did you let so much stuff happen to me today?
God:What do you mean?
Me:Well, I woke up late.
God:Yes.
Me:My car took forever to start.
God:Okay.
Me:At lunch they made my sandwich wrong and I had to wait.
God:Huummm.
Me:On the way home, my phonewent dead, just as I picked up a call.
God:All right.
Me:And on top of it all, when I got home I just wanted to soak my feet in my new foot massager and relax, but it wouldn't work!!! Nothing went right today! Why did you do that?
God:Let me see, the Death Angel was at your bed this morning and I had to send one of the other angels to battle him for your life. I let you sleep through that.
Me:(humbled): OH...
God:I didn't let your car start because there was a drunk driver on your route that would have hit you if you were on the road.
Me: (ashamed)
God:The first person who made your sandwich today was sick and I didn't want you to catch what they have, I knew you couldn't afford to miss work.
Me:(embarrassed): Ok...
God:Your phone went dead because the person that was calling was going to give false information, I didn't even let you talk to them so you would be covered.
Me:(softly) I see God.
God:Oh and that foot massager, it had a shortage that was going to throw out all of the power in your house tonight. I didn't think you wanted to be in the dark.
Me: I’m sorry God.
God:Don't be sorry, just learn to trust me.....in all things, the good and the bad.
Me:I will trust you.
God:And don't doubt that my plan for your day is always better than your plan.
Me:I won't God. And let me just tell you God, thank you for everything today.
God:You're welcome child. It was just another day being your God, and I love looking after my children.
Me:God, can I ask you a question?
God:Sure.
Me:Why did you let so much stuff happen to me today?
God:What do you mean?
Me:Well, I woke up late.
God:Yes.
Me:My car took forever to start.
God:Okay.
Me:At lunch they made my sandwich wrong and I had to wait.
God:Huummm.
Me:On the way home, my phonewent dead, just as I picked up a call.
God:All right.
Me:And on top of it all, when I got home I just wanted to soak my feet in my new foot massager and relax, but it wouldn't work!!! Nothing went right today! Why did you do that?
God:Let me see, the Death Angel was at your bed this morning and I had to send one of the other angels to battle him for your life. I let you sleep through that.
Me:(humbled): OH...
God:I didn't let your car start because there was a drunk driver on your route that would have hit you if you were on the road.
Me: (ashamed)
God:The first person who made your sandwich today was sick and I didn't want you to catch what they have, I knew you couldn't afford to miss work.
Me:(embarrassed): Ok...
God:Your phone went dead because the person that was calling was going to give false information, I didn't even let you talk to them so you would be covered.
Me:(softly) I see God.
God:Oh and that foot massager, it had a shortage that was going to throw out all of the power in your house tonight. I didn't think you wanted to be in the dark.
Me: I’m sorry God.
God:Don't be sorry, just learn to trust me.....in all things, the good and the bad.
Me:I will trust you.
God:And don't doubt that my plan for your day is always better than your plan.
Me:I won't God. And let me just tell you God, thank you for everything today.
God:You're welcome child. It was just another day being your God, and I love looking after my children.
To salvation I say yes! Through trials I say yes! Through tears I say yes! Through heartache/break I say yes!
Through sickness I say yes! Through judgement I say yes! Through persecution I say yes! Trusting is simply saying yes to God even when you do not know how He is going to do something or when. You just know He will preserve you because of the word He has spoken in the Bible! He will preserve you according to His promises! Simply Yes Jesus I do not understand you fully but Yes! It's a love relationship!
Through sickness I say yes! Through judgement I say yes! Through persecution I say yes! Trusting is simply saying yes to God even when you do not know how He is going to do something or when. You just know He will preserve you because of the word He has spoken in the Bible! He will preserve you according to His promises! Simply Yes Jesus I do not understand you fully but Yes! It's a love relationship!
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
E
epouraniois
Guest
perserve - Perhap it's a spelling error,
Luk 17:33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it, and whosoever shall lose it shall preserve it.
2Ti 4:18 The Lord shall deliver me from every wicked work, and shall preserve me for his heavenly kingdom; to whom be glory for the ages of ages. Amen.
preserve:
G4982
σώζω
sōzō
sode'-zo
From a primary word σῶς sōs̄ (contraction for the obsolete σáος saos, “safe”); to save, that is, deliver or protect (literally or figuratively): - heal, preserve, save (self), do well, be (make) whole.
Luk 17:33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it, and whosoever shall lose it shall preserve it.
2Ti 4:18 The Lord shall deliver me from every wicked work, and shall preserve me for his heavenly kingdom; to whom be glory for the ages of ages. Amen.
preserve:
G4982
σώζω
sōzō
sode'-zo
From a primary word σῶς sōs̄ (contraction for the obsolete σáος saos, “safe”); to save, that is, deliver or protect (literally or figuratively): - heal, preserve, save (self), do well, be (make) whole.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Loving others is a risk. Whenever you give of yourself, you take the risk that the other party with fail you.
Dear Aspen2,
Loving mankind is not a risk for God. God does not takes risks because His "will" will be done on earth as it is in heaven. He reigns supreme over this world and the inhabitants are refuted as nothing.
Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
Christ said the first commandest is to love God:
Mark 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
Someday, all mankind is going to love God as this commandment requires of us. But we must be patient and let God's work continue until He completes it.
1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
Before God's work is complete, all mankind is going to know God. But to know God as 1John 4:8 says, one must love as God loves.
We know this will happen because someday, all mankind will find the knowledge of the truth and have salvation in Christ:
1 Tim 2:4-6 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Anything less than perfect would be a sin (failure) for God. But not to worry, God's love never fails, not for anyone. His love for His creation will be "testifed in due time". Until that day, we must have patience.
Sincerely,
Joe
You can't blame God for man's failures and sins. God does not blame Himself. He knows where the blame lies.
Why would He create a creature and then blame Himself for 6,000 years every time His creatures failed?
This is a dangerous way to believe because it can make one irresponsible in life, always looking to blame God or others for their own failures.
Axehead
Dear Axehead,
God is responsible for man's failures and sins and that is why He has sent Christ to save us. God knew what He was doing when He made us spiritually weak and unable to resist the temptations of sin.
Rom 8:20-21 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
This verse above clearly says that God made us subject to "vanity" and we didn't have any say in the matter. But because He loves us all, we will deliver us all into the glorious liberty of the children of God. This verse is talking about all of mankind, those who have "died in Adam". God is going to deliver us all. Why do you insist that he is only going to deliver those who, by their own supposed free will, choose to come to Christ? Scripture is clear that He will deliver us all and that He is the one who calls us to Him. Our carnal mind is enmity against God and wants no part of Him. But God's grace will cause God to do all that is necessary so that each individual is called to him and delivered. The church will be the first fruits of the Kingdom and then in the final age, the full havest of mankind will take place.
Also, we not a malfunctioning creature. In fact, we are behaving exactly as God intends. And we will go on behaving just as He intends. And He intends to cause us all to come to Him and be saved. Christ is the one who does the saving, we do not save ourselves. Why do you keep wanting to take credit for what God has done for you? Paul said:
Eph 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
God does everything necessary to overcome our carnal minds so that we come to Christ. The "decision" that you think you made for Christ was the work of God. You did not have a choice in the matter. He caused you to come to Him against you own carnal mind. He does it all and will do it all for each person who has ever lived. No man can boast that they contributed anything towards their own salvation. You "free will" doctrine is full of prideful self righteousness and is a false doctrine of the harlot church.
Joe
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Loving someone who does not return their love is painful. God loves all people - not all people love Him. It may not be a risk for God to love us in the same way it is for us to love others because God already knows the outcome, but it still must be painful.
Hi Joe,
The creature was made subject to vanity through sin (the fall), not as a result of being created in the image of God. After God created everything He said, "It was very good". This is the righteousness of God as seen in Creation. All that He made was good and nothing was subject to vanity before the fall.
Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
Before the fall there was no bondage of corruption and the creation was not groaning and travailing in pain (waiting for deliverance).
I detect a hint of Calvinism in your post, too. Calvinism and Universalism don't really go together because Calvinists believe that some are destined for hell and others predestined for heaven and yet you believe none are destined for hell. Very strange set of beliefs you have.
Axehead
Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
I would say that a pretty good definition of "trust" is confidence in,
and/or reliance upon, someone and/or something assumed dependable;
but then who really cares anyway? Most people are far more content to
bee-ess about the Bible's God than to actually rely upon Him for anything.
Buen Camino
/
and/or reliance upon, someone and/or something assumed dependable;
but then who really cares anyway? Most people are far more content to
bee-ess about the Bible's God than to actually rely upon Him for anything.
Buen Camino
/
I just wanted to let you know that I am not a Calvinist and don't believe men are predestinated for hell, though God knows what the future for all of us holds.
Axehead
Dear Axehead,
You said:
The creature was made subject to vanity through sin (the fall), not as a result of being created in the image of God. After God created everything He said, "It was very good". This is the righteousness of God as seen in Creation. All that He made was good and nothing was subject to vanity before the fall.
Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
You are adding to scripture when you add "through sin" to the verse. It is not in that verse. God warned you about adding or taking away from His Word. It will not only get you in trouble with Him but it will cause you to misunderstand scripture. I can assure you that God does not need you to help Him write scripture.
You also left off a key piece of the verse which was "not willingly but by reason of Him". The creature was made subject to vanity not because of sin but because God made Him that way from the very beginning. Adam's vanity is what caused Adam to sin - not the other way around as you try to twist scripture. I will say it again: vanity is what caused Adam to sin and Adam did not have any say in the matter. God made Adam subject to vanity (spiritual weakness) and God still said that it was "good". This verse is very clear and precise as it is written. You should not adjust it to suit your preconceived doctrine. Adam was made flawed (spiritually weak, subject to vanity) by reason of God and not because of anything Adam did or said because God made the decision to make Adam this way BEFORE Adam was created. Adam's sin is the result of being made subject to vanity, NOT THE CAUSE. And God said it was "good" because our vanity is a key part in making children of God. EVERYTHING in scripture is part of making children of God. It all works together for good.
One more thing about vanity. The reason Adam sinned was because of His vanity. Adam was made carnal and spiritually weak and that is why Adam sinned and why we sin. It is not because we choose to sin, it is because God made us too spiritually weak to resist temptations. Jesus came into this world as a man in a body no different from our own. The only reason He never sinned as we do is because Jesus was not made spiritually weak. Jesus had the full measure of God's Spirit. Mankind problem with sin is not out of a supposed free will choice but because God made us spiritually weak.
Jesus came to SAVE us from our sin problem and to do that Jesus has to do TWO things. First, the sin debt must be satisfied, other wise when we die, we will stay dead. That is the penalty of sin, not your fictious place called hell. Secondly, Jesus must spiritually strength us to His level so that we don't sin anymore. It's not complicated and is even contained in one verse of scripture.
John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
Jesus' death on the cross paid the sin debt of every person who ever lived regardless of whether they know Christ or not. That is what gives Jesus the power to resurrect the dead, both believers and unbelievers. Otherwise, God's law of sin and death would keep every man in the grave forever. But paying the sin debt alone does not correct the problem of our vanity (spiritual weakness) that got mankind into the sin problem we have. Christ wants to stop us from sinning ever again and when that is complete, we will have life more abundantly. That one verse of scripture is the single best description of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. It truly is good news for mankind. Christ has paid the sin debt and now He is working to draw all mankind to Himself so as to make them a "New Creature", one that has the full measure of God's Spirit. And God's Spirit dwelling in us will correct our spiritual weakness which is the cause of our continual sinning.
You said;
I detect a hint of Calvinism in your post, too. Calvinism and Universalism don't really go together because Calvinists believe that some are destined for hell and others predestined for heaven and yet you believe none are destined for hell. Very strange set of beliefs you have.
Why do you want to put labels on my beliefs? My beliefs are what true followers of Jesus Christ believe. All the labels you try to attach do not fit with my beliefs. I did not receive my understanding from a man but from scripture (Christ the Word of God). I used to receive it from a man or I should say the harlot church, but that was before Christ came to me a second time and healed my spiritual vision. Now I can see clearly and understand WITHOUT "someone leading me by the hand". If you continue to allow your church doctrines to supercede scripture, you will fall with your church leaders into the same ditch that leads to the Lake of Fire. The Lake of Fire is a symbol for a confined place of judgment from which there is no escape. But not to worry, though the judgment is considered "great tribulation", in the end Christ will finally draw you to Him and change your spiritual weakness into a spiritually strong child of God. Making children of God is what scripture and the creation is all about from start to finish. You have been sold a bill of goods from your church with its false doctrines. But that too is all part of God's plan for making His children. All things (including the harlot churches) work together for "good".
Joe
Dear Axehead,
Scripture clearly says that God "predestinates" mankind. He makes some vessels for honor and some for dishonor. No man directs his own steps. God chooses who will be in His church and chooses who will be cast into the Lake of Fire. Unless Christ comes to us and changes our "old man" into the "New Man" and causes us to be called, chosen and faithful to the end, we will be cast into the Lake of Fire to be saved into the Kingdom of Heaven. Scripture is clear, Christ chooses us - we do not get to choose. God's "will" rules over mankind's will. We cannot save ourselves. We are forced to wait on our Savior to act and He acts inaccordance with what God has preordained. This is what scripture clearly teaches if you let God's Word speak for itself.
Joe
You said:
The creature was made subject to vanity through sin (the fall), not as a result of being created in the image of God. After God created everything He said, "It was very good". This is the righteousness of God as seen in Creation. All that He made was good and nothing was subject to vanity before the fall.
Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
You are adding to scripture when you add "through sin" to the verse. It is not in that verse. God warned you about adding or taking away from His Word. It will not only get you in trouble with Him but it will cause you to misunderstand scripture. I can assure you that God does not need you to help Him write scripture.
You also left off a key piece of the verse which was "not willingly but by reason of Him". The creature was made subject to vanity not because of sin but because God made Him that way from the very beginning. Adam's vanity is what caused Adam to sin - not the other way around as you try to twist scripture. I will say it again: vanity is what caused Adam to sin and Adam did not have any say in the matter. God made Adam subject to vanity (spiritual weakness) and God still said that it was "good". This verse is very clear and precise as it is written. You should not adjust it to suit your preconceived doctrine. Adam was made flawed (spiritually weak, subject to vanity) by reason of God and not because of anything Adam did or said because God made the decision to make Adam this way BEFORE Adam was created. Adam's sin is the result of being made subject to vanity, NOT THE CAUSE. And God said it was "good" because our vanity is a key part in making children of God. EVERYTHING in scripture is part of making children of God. It all works together for good.
One more thing about vanity. The reason Adam sinned was because of His vanity. Adam was made carnal and spiritually weak and that is why Adam sinned and why we sin. It is not because we choose to sin, it is because God made us too spiritually weak to resist temptations. Jesus came into this world as a man in a body no different from our own. The only reason He never sinned as we do is because Jesus was not made spiritually weak. Jesus had the full measure of God's Spirit. Mankind problem with sin is not out of a supposed free will choice but because God made us spiritually weak.
Jesus came to SAVE us from our sin problem and to do that Jesus has to do TWO things. First, the sin debt must be satisfied, other wise when we die, we will stay dead. That is the penalty of sin, not your fictious place called hell. Secondly, Jesus must spiritually strength us to His level so that we don't sin anymore. It's not complicated and is even contained in one verse of scripture.
John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
Jesus' death on the cross paid the sin debt of every person who ever lived regardless of whether they know Christ or not. That is what gives Jesus the power to resurrect the dead, both believers and unbelievers. Otherwise, God's law of sin and death would keep every man in the grave forever. But paying the sin debt alone does not correct the problem of our vanity (spiritual weakness) that got mankind into the sin problem we have. Christ wants to stop us from sinning ever again and when that is complete, we will have life more abundantly. That one verse of scripture is the single best description of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. It truly is good news for mankind. Christ has paid the sin debt and now He is working to draw all mankind to Himself so as to make them a "New Creature", one that has the full measure of God's Spirit. And God's Spirit dwelling in us will correct our spiritual weakness which is the cause of our continual sinning.
You said;
I detect a hint of Calvinism in your post, too. Calvinism and Universalism don't really go together because Calvinists believe that some are destined for hell and others predestined for heaven and yet you believe none are destined for hell. Very strange set of beliefs you have.
Why do you want to put labels on my beliefs? My beliefs are what true followers of Jesus Christ believe. All the labels you try to attach do not fit with my beliefs. I did not receive my understanding from a man but from scripture (Christ the Word of God). I used to receive it from a man or I should say the harlot church, but that was before Christ came to me a second time and healed my spiritual vision. Now I can see clearly and understand WITHOUT "someone leading me by the hand". If you continue to allow your church doctrines to supercede scripture, you will fall with your church leaders into the same ditch that leads to the Lake of Fire. The Lake of Fire is a symbol for a confined place of judgment from which there is no escape. But not to worry, though the judgment is considered "great tribulation", in the end Christ will finally draw you to Him and change your spiritual weakness into a spiritually strong child of God. Making children of God is what scripture and the creation is all about from start to finish. You have been sold a bill of goods from your church with its false doctrines. But that too is all part of God's plan for making His children. All things (including the harlot churches) work together for "good".
Joe
Dear Axehead,
Scripture clearly says that God "predestinates" mankind. He makes some vessels for honor and some for dishonor. No man directs his own steps. God chooses who will be in His church and chooses who will be cast into the Lake of Fire. Unless Christ comes to us and changes our "old man" into the "New Man" and causes us to be called, chosen and faithful to the end, we will be cast into the Lake of Fire to be saved into the Kingdom of Heaven. Scripture is clear, Christ chooses us - we do not get to choose. God's "will" rules over mankind's will. We cannot save ourselves. We are forced to wait on our Savior to act and He acts inaccordance with what God has preordained. This is what scripture clearly teaches if you let God's Word speak for itself.
Joe
I want to cut in here and comment about what you have shared Joe.
The ONLY One God chose was Christ. God is choosing His Son in us. Jesus is the One in whom He delights. We are ONLY accepted in Christ. He chose "in Christ" before the foundation of the world.
Many are called, but few are chosen. Upon our calling, we choose to abide in Him, He is the One who we must be acceptable to. We can not declare ourselves already saved, we may not be acceptable to Him, and some will fall away. We do have a responsibility of remaining in Christ.
Sorry, I should have put it in brackets to show that it was from me and not God. I was hoping you could figure that out.
Joe, we are all spiritually weak and that is why we are to abide in Christ. Adam disobeyed because he chose too. You cannot make excuses for him because God doesn't make excuses for his or our sin. God did not set Adam up for failure and He does not set us up for failure.
Totally disagree and so does Jesus.
[quote]John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
Jesus' death on the cross paid the sin debt of every person who ever lived regardless of whether they know Christ or not. That is what gives Jesus the power to resurrect the dead, both believers and unbelievers. Otherwise, God's law of sin and death would keep every man in the grave forever. But paying the sin debt alone does not correct the problem of our vanity (spiritual weakness) that got mankind into the sin problem we have. Christ wants to stop us from sinning ever again and when that is complete, we will have life more abundantly. That one verse of scripture is the single best description of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. It truly is good news for mankind. Christ has paid the sin debt and now He is working to draw all mankind to Himself so as to make them a "New Creature", one that has the full measure of God's Spirit. And God's Spirit dwelling in us will correct our spiritual weakness which is the cause of our continual sinning. [/quote]
Where do I start? You have so many incorrect Biblical ideas but I think it is best to not engage with you. I think things are getting strained on your side so best to be at peace when we stop.
Well, it doesn't feel very good does it? To be labeled. I'm glad you recognized it because maybe you will stop making judgments on people that disagree with you by saying they are "in mainstream religious church", or they are in the "harlot church", or "you have been sold a bill of goods from your church", or "you will fall with your church leaders", etc, etc, etc. You have made many of these judgments not knowing anyone that you made them to. What if I said, the Lord taught me these things? Then there would be real confusion, eh? Because you say the Lord taught you, too. So, I try not to make statements like that and you are the first person I labeled so that you could realize what you are doing. Joe, it is best just to present the truth as you see it in Scripture, but since you can't do that, without your labeling, then there is really no point in having a conversation regarding God's Word and what it says.
I will just leave you with one of your last quotes.
All the best to you Joe,
Axehead
Joe
Dear Johnny B,
I don't know your full beliefs but I can agree with a good part of what you said. We are being created "in Christ". He is the New Man that grows in us. We are not currently saved in the full sense of the word. Mankind does have life because of Christ's sacifice on the cross but we do not have life more abundantly yet (John 10:10). No man has received that salvation yet. We can only receive it when we are resurrected and given the full measure of God's Spirit. At that point and that point only, we are saved in the full sense of the word. Christ is going to complete the salvation of each and every person who has ever iived. In this age, Christ will call "many" of us to Him. If we are blessed, He will "choose" a "few" of us for His church (the first fruits of the havest) and He will cause us to spiritually mature and empower us through the Holy Spirit to remain faithful until we die. At that point, we have been made ready for His church and the Kingdom of Heaven. It is 100% the work of Christ. He is the cause of it all happening. If Christ does not choose us for His church, Christ will complete our salvation in the Lake of Fire age. No one will be lost. Judgment is a part of the salvation process. Everyone must be judged - His true church is judged now in this age and all others will be judged in the final age (Lake of Fire). Christ promised to call us all and save us all "to be testified in due time" (1Tim 2:4-6).
God's plan for creating many children "in Christ" is what scripture and this creation is all about. It takes many ages of time but God is in complete control and He is working all things (including evil and the harlot church that is filled with the many "called") together for good. When Christ has finished His work, He will offer us the Kingdom of Heaven to the Father and God will be "all in all".
Does any of what I've just said ring true to you? I know I didn't give scriptual support but I certainly can and have done so on many of my recent posts on this thread and a few others. So rather than repeat myself, please read my recent posts if you want to see the scriptural support of God's plan for mankind that I just layed out.
Thanks for your comments,
Joe
Dear Axehead,
I need to kept my reply short because it's getting late.
You said:
Joe, we are all spiritually weak and that is why we are to abide in Christ. Adam disobeyed because he chose too. You cannot make excuses for him because God doesn't make excuses for his or our sin. God did not set Adam up for failure and He does not set us up for failure.
Adam disobeyed because he was spiritually weak. He did choose to disobey but the power to obey was not created in him. (Side note: being able to "choose" does not mean you have a "free" will). A spiritually weak person put into a carnal body is a sinning machine. Just look at the world around you. God knows that and that is why He created us that way. He wanted us to experience evil (sin). I have shown you the scriptures before but you are too spiritually weak to believe them. I don't blame you, I was in your shoes a few years ago. But we can't remain carnal and serving Satan in the harlot church until we die and expect to be in Christ's church. You must come out and the only way that will happen is for Christ to come to you a second time and heal your spiritual vision. Once your vision is healed, the scriptures will open up to you. Very quickly you will discover who you have really been following (Satan) and will leave Sodom forever to serve the true Christ. Beyond what I have already done for you, there is nothing more I can do. It is up to Christ and it has always been up to Christ. It just may not be your time.
You said:
Where do I start? You have so many incorrect Biblical ideas but I think it is best to not engage with you. I think things are getting strained on your side so best to be at peace when we stop.
Axehead, where are your scriptures? You have been taught well but you disregard the scriptures I share with you and rarely support your statements with scripture. Conjecture and church teachings are not scripture.
You said:
Well, it doesn't feel very good does it? To be labeled. I'm glad you recognized it because maybe you will stop making judgments on people that disagree with you by saying they are "in mainstream religious church", or they are in the "harlot church", or "you have been sold a bill of goods from your church", or "you will fall with your church leaders", etc, etc, etc. You have made many of these judgments not knowing anyone that you made them to. What if I said, the Lord taught me these things? Then there would be real confusion, eh? Because you say the Lord taught you, too. So, I try not to make statements like that and you are the first person I labeled so that you could realize what you are doing. Joe, it is best just to present the truth as you see it in Scripture, but since you can't do that, without your labeling, then there is really no point in having a conversation regarding God's Word and what it says.
It doesn't bother me to be labeled or even be called worse. I merely asked why you do it. It's happens many times when I venture into Satan's Kingdom. I am frequently cast out of the forums for my beliefs just as the Jews cast Paul out of the synagogues. Here is the reason I label you and others as I do: It's because scripture does it. There are only three groups of people in the word according to scripture. There are "unbelievers", the "called" and the "chosen". That's really it. Most of mankind is not called and are unbelievers. However, Christ calls "many" from the unbeliever group into the "called" group and those people reside in the instituitional churches of ALL types. It makes no difference of your denomination or lack of. All organized religion is harlot. Scripture has much to say about that group. They make up Mystery Bablyon, the mother of Harlots. They are the "man of sin" and have the spirit of antichrist. They are described as being "lukewarm" and Christ will sprew them out of His mouth.
Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
The "hot" are the Elect and the "cold" are the unbelievers. Unfortunately for the "called" group, their judgment will be much more harsh than the other two groups because they have blasphemed the name of Christ and have not repented of it. They are spiritually blind but insist that they can see, so their sin remains.
The third and final group comes out of the "called" group and they are the chosen - also known as the Elect. Knowing these scriptural groups, it is easy for me to discover which group you belong to. Eventually, all of mankind will make it through all three groups and find salvation. Christ is doing all the work and we are all exactly where Christ wants us at this point in time.
In the future, I will try to refrain from addressing your posts since Christ has not made you ready to receive what I write and teach. However, I can't wish you "all my best" since scripture requires that I shake off the dust from my sandals (symbolically speaking) and move on down the road.
Joe
