What is your view of sins, forgiveness, and consequences?

[Blueberry]

We seem to be stuck now on consequences!! Which is not the answer the lost person needs... they will indeed reap what they have sown...but no way do I or will I ever believe it comes from the Father.
The Enemy 'tool' will see to that...he is more than willing to tell the person that it is from God...which does what? It just pushes the fallen further away from God ...and the Enemy Tool wins.

The only way I have ever counselled ( and one man with a gun intent on Suicide) ...is love and forgiveness. They don't need the consequences of not returning to Father.
WE reap what WE sow...nothing to do with God punishing.
He may lovingly chastise , but never ever punish.

I have really come to appreciate your kind and thoughtful posts in my short time here.

Perhaps it is I that am confusing things? I am referring to me. I am a believer, but allowed some sin to exist in my life for a period of time. I 'self medicated' to deal with pain rather than turning to the Father. I have read it many places, and am fairly certainly I have seen you say it too, that we should run to the Father rather than turning when we find ourselves in such a bad way. I totally agree. Despite this it took time for me to come to this (my senses). Because to some extent, I may have been angry/confused/disappointed with what God allowed into my life. Which I say, with fear and trembling, is a genuine potential response to an actual relationship.

Of course, many would say that I cannot possibly be a believer if such a time ever existed in my life.

While never at peace during this period (perhaps that led to even more 'medicating') I did persist for some time. Struggling in my own efforts to free myself, I was usually unsuccessful. Except for brief periods of time. But after garnishing the most resolve that I had been able to muster in a long time, I did all within me to break free and then at some point, it just fell away. Bam... boom... no further desire. While probably doctrinally incorrect, it felt like being born again... again.

At first the joy of the Lord did not return. I resolved to follow Him if even if it never did return. But even that has now returned! Praise God.

Yet, it seems that I may be seriously ill now. A coincidence? Perhaps. Or a delayed punishment of my foolishness and disobedience? I really do not want to burden anyone if this gets too weighty. Its not theory and forum debate. Its my reality. So I wondered if I am experiencing the "sin unto death", but only in a delayed fashion?

Because of a linger sense of guilt and self condemnation, I have trouble mustering the faith to pray for a healing. He would be completely just in doing whatever He wants. Obviously. But I rejoice in that this only confirms I am a legitimate son and by whatever means, we all go sometime. Honestly, I have become so disillusioned with this World for so long that I'd rather not be here. To that extent, having no heirs, I wonder if I would be a better steward by focusing on what estate that I do have going toward some more effective ministry rather than in the ultimately useless endeavor to keep a doomed fleshly body ticking a bit longer?

If not the sin unto death then I feel no prohibition to asking for prayer, but otherwise maybe not? For that could be equivalent to praying against His will.

Actually, this is what all the blueberry silliness is about. It is one of my 'super foods' trying to get a mostly natural healing. Nutrition, medicine, miracles are all legitimate means of healing IMO.

I feel like such a Gomer.

 

[Blueberry]

You wont like it, but my answer is YES.
I personally believe that God poured out ALL judgement upon His Son.
God dealt with sin at the cross.

I believe this too. My situation could be severe chastisement though? But then chastisement is meant to correct and not punish. So what would be the purpose if I am not to continue in a more mature manner?

The Lord giveth, the Lord taketh away. Blessed be the name of the Lord!

 

[Prayer Warrior]

You wont like it, but my answer is YES.
I personally believe that God poured out ALL judgement upon His Son.
God dealt with sin at the cross.

God is not a God of double jeopardy. "Punish now, and then punish again later"
But as I have mentioned , I do believe that we ourselves reap what we sow...it has nothing to do with God.
Drink poison = die. God was not involved.
Jesus did what He came to do.

As for your line- "It depends on the heart of the person we are trying to help"
Only God see the hearts ...all "we" do is just guess...and we can guess very wrong!! We can't 'judge the hearts' of those who have got themselves into a big mess.

anyway...I did say that you wouldn't like my answer...

I completely agree that only God sees the heart. We are not to judge a person's heart, but we can see their behavior--whether they are sinning in their actions. And God, out of His great mercy, may call on us to help the person see that they are in sin....

Maybe, the word punishment is the problem in this discussion. Of course, for Christians, I don't believe that God will mete out eternal punishment, but his discipline can be very painful, so to me, it can feel like punishment. I'm thinking of Hebrews 12:11 that says this about God's discipline: "No discipline seems enjoyable at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it yields the fruit of peace and righteousness to those who have been trained by it."

For non-Christians, I believe it's a very different story. I know that not all Christians believe that unrepentant sinners will be eternally punished. I would like to believe that, but there are scriptures that say otherwise. Here's what Jesus said in Matt 25:44-46--

"Then they too will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or without clothes, or sick, or in prison, and not help You?' Then He will answer them, ‘I assure you: Whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for Me either.' And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
​

 

[Taken]

I'm curious as to other people's views on sins, forgiveness, and consequences.

So what are you thoughts on sins, forgiveness, grace, and consequences here?

My view on SIN...depends on WHO the individual IS.

SIN is and Individual Being AGAINST God.
Which every religion, defines "THEIR" own god, and holds the same Belief, that being "against" their god, is sin, wrong, unacceptable, etc.

My God is Thee Lord God Almighty....
One God, called by many names.

My God is Thee Same God Jews claim as their God, yet the acceptance of Several Names, I believe Applies to Thee God, is not in agreement with the majority of Jews.

So upfront their is an agreement of most Jews and Gentiles....an Obvious difference between what is acceptable NAMES applicable to GOD.

Another difference is LAWS. Laws Specifically given Jews, and NOT Gentiles.
For a Jew, violation of Laws, were considered SINS.
Sin is a man Against God,
Sin is a man Against the Law,
Sin is a man Against man.

I am not a Jew, nor do I claim subjection TO what Jews applied to Themselves and other Jews.

Jesus taught He fulfilled the Law of the Jews.
I have no reason to doubt, He which I have elected to Trust to Believe.

We know the history, Jesus came unto the lost Jews, appointed men to carry on His ministry, those appointed complied, many Jews were receptive, AND....the treatment toward accepting Jews was too overbearing, and relenting and returning to being Under the Jewish Law, has widely prevailed.

Sin is a man Against God.
Sin is a man Against the Law.
Sin is a man Against man.

THAT "complete" profile did not Apply to me Before Jesus or After Jesus.

The "profile" that did Apply a Gentile, before Jesus was solely NOT Believing IN God.

The "profile" that did Apply to ME, a Gentile, after Jesus, was to NOT Believe IN the WHOLE of God....
Son.............--> Lord
Father..........--> God
Holy Spirit....--> Almighty

"I have resolved", my having been NATURALLY Born in Disbelief in the Whole of God, which WAS my own personal SIN Against God.

My resolution, was a freewill personal choice, afforded me BY Thee Lord God Almighty Himself. For my acceptance OF His provided Offer....clearly revealed His WAY/ how...and I fully Trust, WHAT accepting His offer means....beginning with My vowing to Him...and His forgiveness...His spiritual changes within me...and His internal Power Keeping me in Belief and Allegience TO Him.

Rom 4:7 ........my sin is forgiven
Rom 4:7.........my sin is covered
Rom 6:7 ........freed from sin....
1 John 3:5......my sins taken away...
1 John 3:6......sinneth not...
1 John 3:9......can not commit sin...
1 John 3:14.....have passed from death to life
John 1:3........have over come the wicked one
1 John 4:4 ....have over come false prophets
1 John 4:4 ....have over come wicked spirits

So, personally, I no longer can commit sin, or in any way shape or form stand Against God.

I have never been subject to a Jewish Law, whereby according to their Laws, men sinned Against men, and men Forgave men of sin.

Say somebody close to you (spouse, sibling, longtime friend), committed a very serious wrong (like adultery, betrayal of deep trust, etc). Their actions have deeply hurt you. They are "sorry", but somewhat defending their actions, still have a long way to go working out things with God, a long way to improve, etc. In the meantime they are being... angry, depressive, prickly, lashing out, not wanting to listen, etc.

My thought is...IF you are a Jew, WHO continues under the Law, according to Jewish Law, one offending another has committed a Sin, and thus must follow the Law to amend the Sin.

However as a Gentile IN Christ, the things you speak of are One person committing a Trespass Against another person.

Trespasses between People have several instructions in Scripture on what the Lord Himself teaches is acceptable in how to deal with those such issues.

While Scripture will lead to effecting forgiveness, it does not relieve the offender from civil or reputation or other unfavorable consequences.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Prayer Warrior]

I believe this too. My situation could be severe chastisement though? But then chastisement is meant to correct and not punish. So what would be the purpose if I am not to continue in a more mature manner?

The Lord giveth, the Lord taketh away. Blessed be the name of the Lord!

It sounds like you need God's wisdom, and I pray that He will give it you!

Edit: I'm not convinced that the verses in 1 Cor. 5 apply to you. Here's what Paul said (KJV).

It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
​

I don't see any indication by Paul that the fornicator mentioned in these verses was repentant. So, that's why I'm saying that I don't know that this applies to you. It sounds as though you have fully repented and haven't gotten back into the sin.

1 John 1:9 comes to mind. "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." I don't see how this verse would not apply to you, and I believe that God will show you what you need to know.
.

 

[Enoch111]

As I understand it, the premature death is to destroy the body in order save the soul? Though it also seems to clearly suggest that a unrepentant Christian might be taken out in the midst of the sin.

You are perfectly correct.

Is it possible that such a person may repent, be truly sorry and cease the sin(s), but still suffer this result?

Very true. While the repentant person can make amends in certain situations, it may not be possible to reverse things which were put into place.

 

[amadeus]

@Jane_Doe22
The wages of sin remains, death as per Rom 6:23.
People may argue about what sin is or what it is not, but if we sin and do not repent the consequence always remains death. Jesus came and paid the price that no man could pay making it possible for any person to start with a clean slate instead of simply remaining dead with all of Adam and Eve's natural offspring... But then God also provided the means for each person to do what Adam and Eve did not do prior to eating of the worn tree. With that clean slate and the power of the Holy Spirit, each of us could overcome those things which when followed would cause each of to sin again. The apostle John wrote down for us those ways that always lead us to sin...

"For all that is in the world, [1] the lust of the flesh, and [2] the lust of the eyes, and [3] the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever." I John 2:16-17

Yes, the world of our flesh passes away, no matter what, but for us to obtain and to keep the Life that Jesus brought we must overcome those pathways to sin. For this reason with a clean slate we need the Holy Spirit to do what we could not do before overcome. When and if we do then and only then will we be able to eat of that other tree:

Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Remember what God said when He was about to put Adam and Eve the outside?

"And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:" Gen 3:22

Now because of Jesus and the Holy Spirit we can come with a clean slate and overcome the ways to sin and eat of the fruit of the Tree of Life and live forever. But... there are no short cuts. The Way is open, but we must walk it and we must complete the work that is required. God has made possible that was impossible:

"And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved?
And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible." Mark 10:26-27

When people sin after having met the Master and after having repented and after having received the gift of the Holy Spirit, the Way is still open...until our time has run out.

"My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:" I John 2:1

So then how much time do we have to accomplish the work that is ours to do? God knows

"Is there not an appointed time to man upon earth? are not his days also like the days of an hireling?" Job 7:1

 

[Blueberry]

It sounds like you need God's wisdom, and I pray that He will give it you!

Thank you.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Thank you.

You're welcome. I added to that post. You may want to read what I wrote.

 

[Blueberry]

You're welcome. I added to that post. You may want to read what I wrote.

I read it. Thank you. Yes, I am done and not into anything. It all started when I would not be utterly dependent on God on a daily basis (even moment by moment), but relied on my own strength. Not a walking away, but I guess drifting. Then became completely isolated as all of the few relationships I did have collapsed. My few distant living relatives are all too busy 'winning at this life' to bother. Easy prey for the Evil one. I fell down.

The joy and confidence comes and goes, but I am not relying on that. Facts, faith and promises is all that I can trust. Feelwings is what got me into trouble in the first place! The health issue may have been building all this time the more I think of it. There is no official diagnosis. Just internet 'self doctoring'. But symptoms are symptoms.

I appreciate you reply to this difficult subject matter. You are a true warrior.

 

[Enoch111]

I don't see any indication by Paul that the fornicator mentioned in these verses was repentant.

All you had to do was continue in 2 Corinthians.

2 CORINTHIANS 2
6 Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many.

7 So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow.

8 Wherefore I beseech you that ye would confirm your love toward him.

 

[LC627]

"Sin is not simply making bad choices or mistakes. Sin is having the desire in our hearts to do the will of the enemy of God." R.C. Sproul.

As stated above, to sin is to do the will of satan over God. It's deeper than just a bad choice and the consequences of The Fall stretched even to nature. The ultimate consequence of sin is death, that is its wage. For forgiveness, there is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus, we are saved by His grace but there may still be consequences we have to live with due to our sin (prison, health issues, relationship issues, etc)

As for other people who hurt us, we must forgive them. Not always easy but we must. Some people are not healthy for us to have in our lives so just because you forgive someone doesn't mean you have to give them full access to your life. There is family that I keep at a distance due to their unhealthy presence in my life, but that does not mean I don't love them or forgive them for the hurt they caused me.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

All you had to do was continue in 2 Corinthians.

2 CORINTHIANS 2
6 Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many.

7 So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow.

8 Wherefore I beseech you that ye would confirm your love toward him.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I haven't studied 2 Cor as much as 1 Cor. My point was that at the time that Paul judged him, there was no mention of repentance in his first letter.

 

[Helen]

Yet, it seems that I may be seriously ill now. A coincidence? Perhaps. Or a delayed punishment of my foolishness and disobedience? I really do not want to burden anyone if this gets too weighty. Its not theory and forum debate. Its my reality. So I wondered if I am experiencing the "sin unto death", but only in a delayed fashion?

Because of a linger sense of guilt and self condemnation, I have trouble mustering the faith to pray for a healing. He would be completely just in doing whatever He wants. Obviously. But I rejoice in that this only confirms I am a legitimate son and by whatever means, we all go sometime. Honestly, I have become so disillusioned with this World for so long that I'd rather not be here. To that extent, having no heirs, I wonder if I would be a better steward by focusing on what estate that I do have going toward some more effective ministry rather than in the ultimately useless endeavor to keep a doomed fleshly body ticking a bit longer?

If not the sin unto death then I feel no prohibition to asking for prayer, but otherwise maybe not? For that could be equivalent to praying against His will.

Actually, this is what all the blueberry silliness is about. It is one of my 'super foods' trying to get a mostly natural healing. Nutrition, medicine, miracles are all legitimate means of healing IMO.

I feel like such a Gomer.

Dear friend
Do you remember me mentioning counselling the man with the gun. I will fill in a bit more of his story. He was a preacher friend... he chose to preach to the poor in South America, rather than the rich in the USA states. He traveled a lot. His wife was a miserable person, very jealous about his preacher friend who preach in USA.
She nagged and nagged him...so much so after one preaching trip down south...he didn't want to return home to more nagging.
When he got off the plane he didn't go home...stayed in the city , and fell into sin.

This man was so condemned ...long story...in the end we took him into our house as he was so depressed, miserable , and was trying to kill himself. ( I took his pills and his gun away from him...conditions of staying in our house)
My hubby and I talked until we were blue in the face...
I could not move him from his own condemnation.

So in the end I said to him...< " So, you have set your self up higher than God...God who lovingly forgave king David when he fell.
God who lovingly forgave Peter when he fell.
God who lovingly forgave and anointed Paul the multi-murderer to the ministry....You are wallowing in your own condemnation and guilt and pride , is keeping you from taking Fathers 100% forgiveness to be once again, as if it never happened!! YOU are you enemy..satan doesn't have to do one thing. Get over yourself...and continue to be a blessing that God has called you to be." >

If any of that speaks to you..then ........ .....

Don't wait for God...He is waiting for you!!

Isa 52 "Shake thyself from the dust; arise, .. O Jerusalem: loose thyself from the bands of thy neck, O captive daughter of Zion."

It says..." And David was greatly distressed;.....but David encouraged himself in the Lord his God. "

Many years ago there was a book called " Don't Waste Your Sorrows"...
My friend, take what you have learned and move on...don't get the mindset of opting out. God still has a calling and a purpose for you...He is not finished with you yet. Somewhere you have bought the lie and think that you are somehow worse than the rest of us...
We all have "a story"...you don't own that corner

Don't let anything linger from your slip...that was then, this is now.

There is an eastern story that is told of an old Arab who wanted a certain house..but and old Jew owned it. So the Jew said.."Okay I will sell you my house...but I just want to own a big nail by the door there...it wont bother you...but it is mine okay?"
The old Arab was happy...he and his family moved in.
After a while the Jew asked if he could hang something on his nail..all continued fine..( It a longish story so I will cut to the end...)
Finally the old Jew brought the carcass of his dead Ass and hung it on the nail... Yes you have guessed it...by allowing a nail to remain in the house the Arab lost the house...the stink was so bad he had to move out...

Brother, pull the nail out that the enemy has sold you...and own you freedom in Christ.

To stay in condemnation is to choose yourself over the mighty, powerful , amazing cleaning Blood of Christ!
His blood IS enough!! You are free...take it back.

Every blessing in Christ Jesus...may you be a greater blessing in your latter years than your former....
Healing is indeed ours in Christ.

You can't throw the towel in now...the best is yet to come!
Every man is needed.

Jer 12.5 "If thou hast run with the footmen, and they have wearied thee, then how canst thou contend with horses?
And if in the land of peace, wherein thou trustest, they wearied thee, then how wilt thou do in the swelling of Jordan? "

Don't quit.

31 "But they that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint. "

God bless you richly. And we will pray for your total healing. ♥︎

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Dear friend
Do you remember me mentioning counselling the man with the gun. I will fill in a bit more of his story. He was a preacher friend... he chose to preach to the poor in South America, rather than the rich in the USA states. He traveled a lot. His wife was a miserable person, very jealous about his preacher friend who preach in USA.
She nagged and nagged him...so much so after one preaching trip down south...he didn't want to return home to more nagging.
When he got off the plane he didn't go home...stayed in the city , and fell into sin.

This man was so condemned ...long story...in the end we took him into our house as he was so depressed, miserable , and was trying to kill himself. ( I took him pills and his gun away from him)
My hubby and I talked until we were blue in the face...
I could not move him from his condemnation.

So in the end I said to him...< So, you have set your self up higher than God...God who lovingly forgave king David when he fell.
God who lovingly forgave Peter when he fell.
God who lovingly forgave and anointed Paul the multi-murderer to the ministry....You are wallowing in your own condemnation and guilt and pride , is keeping you from taking Fathers 100% forgiveness to be once again, as if it never happened!! YOU are you enemy..satan doesn't have to do one thing. Get over yourself...and continue to be a blessing that God has called you to be. >

If any of that speaks to you..then .....
Don't wait for God...He is waiting for you!!

Isa 52 "Shake thyself from the dust; arise, .. O Jerusalem: loose thyself from the bands of thy neck, O captive daughter of Zion."

It says..." And David was greatly distressed;.....but David encouraged himself in the Lord his God. "

Many years ago there was a book called " Don't Waste Your Sorrows"...
My friend, take what you have learned and move on...don't get the mindset of opting out. God still has a calling and a purpose for you...He is not finished with you yet. Somewhere you have bought the lie and think that you are somehow worse than the rest of us...
We all have "a story"...you don't own that corner

Don't let anything linger from your slip...that was then, this is now.

There is an eastern story that is told of an old Arab who wanted a certain house..but and old Jew owned it. So the Jew said.."Okay I will sell you my house...but I just want to own a big nail by the door there...it wont bother you...but it is mine okay?"
The old Arab was happy...he and his family moved in.
After a while the Jew asked if he could hang something on his nail..all continued fine..( It a longish story so I will cut to the end...)
Finally the old Jew brought the carcass of his dead Ass and hung it on the nail... Yes you have guessed it...by allowing a nail to remain in the house the Arab lost the house...the stink was so bad he had to move out...

Brother, pull the nail out that the enemy has sold you...and own you freedom in Christ.

To stay in condemnation is to choose yourself over the mighty, powerful , amazing cleaning Blood of Christ!
His blood IS enough!! You are free...take it back.

Every blessing in Christ Jesus...may you be a greater blessing in your latter years than your former....
Healing is indeed ours in Christ.

You can't throw the towel in now...the best is yet to come!
Every man is needed.

Jer 12.5 "If thou hast run with the footmen, and they have wearied thee, then how canst thou contend with horses?
And if in the land of peace, wherein thou trustest, they wearied thee, then how wilt thou do in the swelling of Jordan? "

Don't quit.

31 "But they that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint. "

God bless you richly. And we will pray for your total healing. ♥︎

Thank you, Helen! Even though you wrote this to Blueberry, it really blessed me!

 

[Nancy]

Dear friend
Do you remember me mentioning counselling the man with the gun. I will fill in a bit more of his story. He was a preacher friend... he chose to preach to the poor in South America, rather than the rich in the USA states. He traveled a lot. His wife was a miserable person, very jealous about his preacher friend who preach in USA.
She nagged and nagged him...so much so after one preaching trip down south...he didn't want to return home to more nagging.
When he got off the plane he didn't go home...stayed in the city , and fell into sin.

This man was so condemned ...long story...in the end we took him into our house as he was so depressed, miserable , and was trying to kill himself. ( I took his pills and his gun away from him...conditions of staying in our house)
My hubby and I talked until we were blue in the face...
I could not move him from his own condemnation.

So in the end I said to him...< " So, you have set your self up higher than God...God who lovingly forgave king David when he fell.
God who lovingly forgave Peter when he fell.
God who lovingly forgave and anointed Paul the multi-murderer to the ministry....You are wallowing in your own condemnation and guilt and pride , is keeping you from taking Fathers 100% forgiveness to be once again, as if it never happened!! YOU are you enemy..satan doesn't have to do one thing. Get over yourself...and continue to be a blessing that God has called you to be." >

If any of that speaks to you..then ........ .....

Don't wait for God...He is waiting for you!!

Isa 52 "Shake thyself from the dust; arise, .. O Jerusalem: loose thyself from the bands of thy neck, O captive daughter of Zion."

It says..." And David was greatly distressed;.....but David encouraged himself in the Lord his God. "

Many years ago there was a book called " Don't Waste Your Sorrows"...
My friend, take what you have learned and move on...don't get the mindset of opting out. God still has a calling and a purpose for you...He is not finished with you yet. Somewhere you have bought the lie and think that you are somehow worse than the rest of us...
We all have "a story"...you don't own that corner

Don't let anything linger from your slip...that was then, this is now.

There is an eastern story that is told of an old Arab who wanted a certain house..but and old Jew owned it. So the Jew said.."Okay I will sell you my house...but I just want to own a big nail by the door there...it wont bother you...but it is mine okay?"
The old Arab was happy...he and his family moved in.
After a while the Jew asked if he could hang something on his nail..all continued fine..( It a longish story so I will cut to the end...)
Finally the old Jew brought the carcass of his dead Ass and hung it on the nail... Yes you have guessed it...by allowing a nail to remain in the house the Arab lost the house...the stink was so bad he had to move out...

Brother, pull the nail out that the enemy has sold you...and own you freedom in Christ.

To stay in condemnation is to choose yourself over the mighty, powerful , amazing cleaning Blood of Christ!
His blood IS enough!! You are free...take it back.

Every blessing in Christ Jesus...may you be a greater blessing in your latter years than your former....
Healing is indeed ours in Christ.

You can't throw the towel in now...the best is yet to come!
Every man is needed.

Jer 12.5 "If thou hast run with the footmen, and they have wearied thee, then how canst thou contend with horses?
And if in the land of peace, wherein thou trustest, they wearied thee, then how wilt thou do in the swelling of Jordan? "

Don't quit.

31 "But they that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint. "

God bless you richly. And we will pray for your total healing. ♥︎

Wow. And awesome ♥

 

[Blueberry]

To stay in condemnation is to choose yourself over the mighty, powerful , amazing cleaning Blood of Christ!
His blood IS enough!! You are free...take it back.

Thank you very much. I only quoted a small portion despite reading it all. I will read it all more than a few times, but a number of things came up this afternoon. So this had to be brief.

Yes, unable/unwilling to forgive myself when God is willing is a form of pride. No doubt about that. Oh wait I see that higher up.

That (God's forgiveness) and even this support is hard to receive for some reason though. The latter doesn't seem like pride though. That was tossed out the window when I shared my story!

I'm not suicidal or anything. Just was willing to let things take their course, despite my best efforts while making the best use of resources that I can. The sword bit was meant to be humorous instead of dramatic. (edit) NOT some subtle 'cry for help'. Just want to reassure you guys. The last speaking relative (and person) in my life just emailed a couple of hours ago and resigned as kinfolk. But I think that has been a secular voice that has not ultimately done me any benefit. The minimal amount of contact that it was anyway. Still an outright rejection. I'm (was) the toxic one in her life. Lots of old skin being shed here.

Thanks for the kind words and prayers. I will be praying for you guys too.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Thank you very much. I only quoted a small portion despite reading it all. I will read it all more than a few times, but a number of things came up this afternoon. So this had to be brief.

Yes, unable/unwilling to forgive myself when God is willing is a form of pride. No doubt about that. Oh wait I see that higher up.

That (God's forgiveness) and even this support is hard to receive for some reason though. The latter doesn't seem like pride though. That was tossed out the window when I shared my story!

I'm not suicidal or anything. Just was willing to let things take their course, despite my best efforts while making the best use of resources that I can. The sword bit was meant to be humorous instead of dramatic. (edit) NOT some subtle 'cry for help'. Just want to reassure you guys. The last speaking relative (and person) in my life just emailed a couple of hours ago and resigned as kinfolk. But I think that has been a secular voice that has not ultimately done me any benefit. The minimal amount of contact that it was anyway. Still an outright rejection. I'm (was) the toxic one in her life. Lots of old skin being shed here.

Thanks for the kind words and prayers. I will be praying for you guys too.

I hear what you're saying about isolation. It seems that most people would tell you to be around other people at all cost, but like you, I've had to separate from friends and family who weren't steering me in the direction of where God has been taking me. It's a hard place to be! Most of the separation I've experienced, though, has been from betrayal and/or rejection. That's a long story that I won't go into here. Every time I cry out to Jesus about it, He reminds me that He was despised and rejected of men, a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief.

What it comes down to is that we have to love and trust Him in these dark places--like Joseph who didn't have a clue (except for his dreams) what God was doing in his life until Pharaoh called him to his court. God does a special work in the dark places where seeds can germinate. If we wait on God, we will see the fruit of His work in our innermost being. It's been hard for me to write this. I'm still a bit in the dark myself....

In case anyone takes issue with what I've said about being in the dark, of course Christians are never really in the dark, but it can seem that we are.

 

[Blueberry]

I hear what you're saying about isolation. It seems that most people would tell you to be around other people at all cost, but like you, I've had to separate from friends and family who weren't steering me in the direction of where God has been taking me.

Jesus certainly got away from the crowds, even the disciples, for some quiet time. I heard those confused, but concerned words too. "What's wrong with you??"

And definitely the "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." applies to make choices of who to spend majority of time with and who to listen to.

It's a hard place to be! Most of the separation I've experienced, though, has been from betrayal and/or rejection. That's a long story that I won't go into here. Every time I cry out to Jesus about it, He reminds me that He was despised and rejected of men, a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief.

It can be. But for me it can also be the easier place to be. But it is a resting and refreshing spot. And time. Not a place to linger too long. The actual physical lions prey like this too. Isolating one from the herd and then pouncing.

What it comes down to is that we have to love and trust Him in these dark places--like Joseph who didn't have a clue (except for his dreams) what God was doing in his life until Pharaoh called him to his court. God does a special work in the dark places where seeds can germinate. If we wait on God, we will see the fruit of His work in our innermost being. It's been hard for me to write this. I'm still a bit in the dark myself....

In case anyone takes issue with what I've said about being in the dark, of course Christians are never really in the dark, but it can seem that we are.

I imagine hanging on the cross was a mighty dark place! In a dark place, the Light shines brighter.

I know exactly what you mean.

Thanks.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I've been in similar situations. One thing I've learned is that it doesn't pay to act like everything is fine when it's clearly not. If people try to justify their sin, I don't believe they can be truly repentant. If you haven't already, I encourage you to ask God how to specifically handle this situation in order to help this person come to repentance. I pray that you will have His wisdom.

Edit: After reading some of your replies, I felt that my reply could have been taken as being too harsh, which is not how I intended it. The situation in the OP sounds similar to something I endured for years. I found that when I acted like everything was fine, the person in my situation took that to mean that I was ok with their sin or that I didn't see their behavior as sin. I found in my situation that I had to be very real with the person, esp. considering that the person's eternal destiny may be at stake.

These verses from Galatians 5 keep coming to mind:

Now the works of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, moral impurity, promiscuity, idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambitions, dissensions, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and anything similar. I tell you about these things in advance — as I told you before — that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
​

I believe that even as Christians we sin sometimes, but the Holy Spirit convicts us, and by God's grace, we repent. We don't "practice" the sin.... I take this verse to mean that those who continue in sin without conviction are practicing the sin and will not inherit the kingdom of God. Of course, only God knows a person's heart, so as I said before, we need God's wisdom.

​

You're ok.

My answer here: I cannot help my friend come to repentance. Nor can I rebuild the trust she has shattered. That ball is in her court. I can only embrace the peace God offers me here-- letting go of the anger and letting Him handle it -- in other words forgiving. Me accepting that peace is between me & God, no one else. It doesn't rebuild the shattered trust.

Her answer here: forgiving the sinner and extending grace is about getting endless second chances and pretending things didn't happen.

Needless to say, they're very different definitions. I know my obviously. But this conversation did spark my curiosity as to other people's definitions, hence starting this thread.