The following is what I said and it’s what I believe:
Just love Jesus. Believe His words....
What Mormons Believe--according to a Former BYU Professor
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The following is what I said and it’s what I believe:
Just love Jesus. Believe His words....
^You cited this.
This is no different than my Evangelical friend not deserting me in my instance. Should I renounce Evangelism as a cult because of her actions? That is your citation and line of logic saying.
Or does the cited piece of evidence not hold? And that the truth is that we're all sinners, and that there are rotten apples sitting on every sit of pews.
I do.
I know you don't acknowledge that because I am not a Protestant. But I love Christ with every single fiber of my being-- heart, mind, soul, etc. He is the center of my everything. Even when I don't completely understand why horrible things happen and I hurt. When I'm bleeding out and once again not taking home a living child and deserted by my best friend of 20 years. He is my savior. The center of my world and the one beyond strong anchor of sanity and healing, refuge when it all hurts.
@Prayer Warrior ,
I am a disciple of Christ. He alone is my Savior and King. I prize Him, His sacrifice, and His words (past/present/future) above all else. I pray, I study, I strive to follow Him, repent when I screw up, and rejoice in Him.
I celebrate Christ with my brothers & sisters in Christ: whether they sit in pews labelled "United Methodist Church". "Freetown Baptist Church", "St Anne Catholic Church", "Third Street Calvinist Church", "Flatirons Christian Church" "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" or whatever. I don't agree with them on every theological point, and I've been deeply hurt by sinners sitting each set of pews. But they are all my brothers & sisters in Christ and, I offer them forgiveness for trespasses, and celebrations for each step taken walking with Christ.
I am not brainwashed. Nobody is pulling any wool over my eyes. And yes, I have thoroughly studied at each of those churches learning as they each see things. And of course just straight up studying scripture too for many many years. I am no cultist, and today I'm not going to stand passively by while anyone slanders me or other child God that way.
I am a disciple of Christ. He alone is my Savior and King. I prize Him, His sacrifice, and His words (past/present/future) above all else. I pray, I study, I strive to follow Him, repent when I screw up, and rejoice in Him.
I celebrate Christ with my brothers & sisters in Christ: whether they sit in pews labelled "United Methodist Church". "Freetown Baptist Church", "St Anne Catholic Church", "Third Street Calvinist Church", "Flatirons Christian Church" "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" or whatever. I don't agree with them on every theological point, and I've been deeply hurt by sinners sitting each set of pews. But they are all my brothers & sisters in Christ and, I offer them forgiveness for trespasses, and celebrations for each step taken walking with Christ.
I am not brainwashed. Nobody is pulling any wool over my eyes. And yes, I have thoroughly studied at each of those churches learning as they each see things. And of course just straight up studying scripture too for many many years. I am no cultist, and today I'm not going to stand passively by while anyone slanders me or other child God that way.
@Prayer Warrior Christian contentment is such a blessing.
Years ago someone called Jeremiah Burroughs wrote a book called 'The Rare Jewel of Christian Contentment'.
I'm not familiar with the book. Sounds interesting, but yes, contentment is a blessing. Reminds me of this scripture.
1 Timothy 6:6--But godliness with contentment is a great gain.
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I realize I didn't give the finished story with this--
My former friend is forgiven for her trespasses, obviously. Our friendship did not survive the ordeal, both because of that and other issues, and my wounds are still healing. But I acknowledge Christ's supremacy in everything here.
My earlier insistent point is that all pews are filled with short-coming humans, and we should forgive each of them. Such human short comings is not a reason to say "that's a cult!" and never should we make such a case.
It did indeed seriously offend me that you were trying to make such a case. My former friend... yes she mega screwed up, but I don't blame "that proves Evangelicalism is a cult" and find HUGE offense in such logic. Her faith was/is still one of the best things about her, and I do indeed still love that part of her. Same with all of the other religious people who've hurt me over the years.
Hi, Jane, I'm glad to know that you have forgiven your former friend. I know that this can be very hard to do.
I'm afraid you're mistaken about my position on cults. I never said it's the behavior by members of any group that defines the belief system of that group. It's the doctrines that define it. This is what I said and it's what I believe. "I agree that Mormonism is a cult, and I have stated this. What they consider to be the 'most correct book' is NOT the Bible; therefore, much of their doctrine is not biblical."
So...as far as I'm concerned, I don't believe that it's not people's shortcomings that define a cult, as you have implied. It's whether the beliefs/doctrines of the group lie inside or outside the parameters of Bible doctrine. My main concern about this is that people can be led away from the truth. Before I became a Christian in college, I believed all kinds of ideas that proved to be false, and this really messed up my life. I would spare others this experience if I could.
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@Prayer Warrior , I get where your intent is here and it is completely admirable to want to bring people closer to Christ.
However, poorly done aoplogetics can have the opposite effect, and I would caution you (any anyone else) to choose words carefully, thoughtfully, and with the most charity. See the individual: celebrate with them their existent love of Christ, and try to leave behind a positive mark urging deeper growth in faith.
I've first hand seen the damage "anti-cult" apologetics can do. I've seen how it can rip people away from Christ -- leaving them bitter atheists, tearing families apart, making people to terrified to develop there own faith, cursing God, etc. It's horrible, and I too wish to spare people that pain.
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Another thing to clarify about the above:
LDS Christians do indeed consider the Bible to be scripture and the word of God. For every one year of Sunday School focus on the Book of Mormon, there are two for the Bible. It is indeed prized and not remotely looked down upon.
One thing that is a important difference between Protestant Christian beliefs and LDS Christian beliefs is the methodology for approaching God's Truth. Protestants typically take a Sola Sciptura methodology. LDS Christians are not Sola Scirptura, and very actively look to God to help understand His Truths through the Holy Spirit.
I don't require the English translation of scripture I'm using to be perfect, because God can help me understand the Truth He wants to convey --- that's critical. And I'll readily acknowledge that no translation of scripture is perfect, because translations are inherently flawed. And even to those people whom heard the messages shared firsthand (say you were literally sitting in the Sermon on the Mount audience) still frequently misunderstood and needed God to guide them.
Somebody arguing that I'm a "cultist" because I acknowledge these limitations and the need for God to illuminate His Truths... that just doesn't make much sense. I'm Christ's disciple. He teaches me, and He alone is perfect. No human scribed book is inherently perfect, and while I love those books of scripture, the pieces of pulpy paper aren't my Master. Rather, I'm saved by the living Christ & His blood.
A more pertinent question might be, "What did you believe when you were a Christian?"
That would very likely bring about the answer of what Christians believe; unless the one who converted to Islam previously had false beliefs about Christianity as a Christian.
Hi, Jane, I just now saw your post even though you posted it a while ago.
In response to the part of your post I'm quoting, I've never called you a cultist. I called Mormonism a cult because some of what LDS considers scriptures (including the Book of Mormon) contradicts the Bible, and not just in small ways. Therefore, some LDS doctrines are in contradiction to biblical Christian doctrines.
I have never questioned your salvation because I believe that members of a cult could be saved by the true gospel. And like I've said before in this thread, it's not my call as to who is actually saved and who isn't.
Implying that some Christians see the Bible as their God is a red herring. I've never known of any Christians who view the Bible as their God. I certainly don't, but I do believe that the Bible is the only Holy Spirit-breathed word of God written and compiled for the express purpose of revealing His story--from the very beginning of His creation to the end of this age.
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Since in mormonism there is a special blessing for practicing polygamy, why are ministers punished by the commandment that they can only have one wife?
Then toss out his writings and believe only what the Bible says about Jesus Christ.
@Prayer Warrior , the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints isn't some nebulous ghost. It consist of individuals believers, people like me. You are indeed calling me a "cultist" in these posts, which is both highly inaccurate and offensive.
As for supposed contributions: I love every single word of the Bible. I find that it strongly enforces my beliefs, and that their are zero contradictions. Now obviously, I don't hold Protestant interpretations of all scripture passages, but that's disagreeing with someone's interpretation. I also don't believe that God's words arte limited to just the Bible- as if He were suddenly to be mute.
I had a whole thread I wrote about it: What I actually believe -- sharing love of Christ
That's inaccurate.
I do follow Christ.
Since Joseph Smith cannot be separated from the LDS Church, you need to be perfectly honest about this matter. For any Mormon, Smith is a true prophet, and therefore idolized.
Perfect honesty straight up:
I am a disciple of Jesus Christ. At the start, middle, and end. I do not idolize Joseph Smith, and acknowledge that he was a sinner just like every other regular human on this earth. I do also believe that he was also a flawed instrument in God's hands.
I also get very annoyed whenever this argument is made because it's hypocritical: each one of us Christians puts Christ first, and also has flawed human leaders striving to follow God. I don't demand that every Protestant renounce Protestantism because Martin Luther was a flawed (such as his racism) -- such doesn't remotely even make sense to me. Every man and woman is a flawed sinner (excluding of course Christ, the Son of God).
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