What Mormons Believe--according to a Former BYU Professor

[justbyfaith]

That's inaccurate.

It always is.

I do follow Christ.

As long as you hold Joseph Smith's teachings above those of the Holy Bible, you are following Joseph Smith's version of who Christ is...and in this sense you are following Joseph Smith.

And I believe that 2 Nephi 9:28-29, might lead you to believe, as a mormon, that Joseph Smith's writings are to be taken as superior to the Bible (while that "scripture" can also be utilized in the opposite sense).

 

[Jane_Doe22]

As long as you hold Joseph Smith's teachings above those of the Holy Bible, you are following Joseph Smith's version of who Christ is...and in this sense you are following Joseph Smith.

I hold God above all else.

 

[Grailhunter]

Irritating…I wish you people would look at the definitions of cult! True that even within the last 60 years the definition of cult has changed a few times….but at no time did or does the definition mean, believing in Christian writings or communications or visitations outside of the Holy Bible. Why not show some intelligence? Why not write something that makes sense?

There is nothing wrong with being a Fundamentalist. I go to church with a lot of Fundamentalists…. great people. But that does not necessary mean any one of the 30,000 denominations knows the truth. They have their own perspective of the truth…that is why it is called beliefs. By their concept, God has been silent for 2000 years…By their concepts the Apostles were misled into believing He would return soon…last days. The New Testament documents the first 65 years of Christianity. God and the Angels did not go on vacation after the biblical era. There is no reason to think that God would not communicate to people over the next 2000 years. There is no one that had the power to shut God up!

There are Protestants that have a condemning nature. That is not the nature of Christ. The don’t doers, that believe their relationship with God is defined by what they don’t do. The Mormons and the Catholics believe in the saving grace of Christ. There are Protestants that do not even believe in the spiritual nature of Baptism or the Bread and Wine ritual… some don’t even believe in miracles or the tongues of the Holy Spirit. There are Protestants that give God every characteristic of Satan. Glass houses…Glass houses at best. Then the Protestants have the audacity to condemn those that belief that God has always been active.

If you want to limit yourself to the Holy Bible, to the first 65 years of Christian history, that is fine. I do not condemn the Fundamentalists, opinions vary times 30,000, what I condemn is their condemning. But the fact is God and Christian history marched on.

 

[justbyfaith]

Irritating…I wish you people would look at the definitions of cult! True that even within the last 60 years the definition of cult has changed a few times….but at no time did or does the definition mean, believing in Christian writings or communications or visitations outside of the Holy Bible. Why not show some intelligence? Why not write something that makes sense?

There is nothing wrong with being a Fundamentalist. I go to church with a lot of Fundamentalists…. great people. But that does not necessary mean any one of the 30,000 denominations knows the truth. They have their own perspective of the truth…that is why it is called beliefs. By their concept, God has been silent for 2000 years…By their concepts the Apostles were misled into believing He would return soon…last days. The New Testament documents the first 65 years of Christianity. God and the Angels did not go on vacation after the biblical era. There is no reason to think that God would not communicate to people over the next 2000 years. There is no one that had the power to shut God up!

There are Protestants that have a condemning nature. That is not the nature of Christ. The don’t doers, that believe their relationship with God is defined by what they don’t do. The Mormons and the Catholics believe in the saving grace of Christ. There are Protestants that do not even believe in the spiritual nature of Baptism or the Bread and Wine ritual… some don’t even believe in miracles or the tongues of the Holy Spirit. There are Protestants that give God every characteristic of Satan. Glass houses…Glass houses at best. Then the Protestants have the audacity to condemn those that belief that God has always been active.

If you want to limit yourself to the Holy Bible, to the first 65 years of Christian history, that is fine. I do not condemn the Fundamentalists, opinions vary times 30,000, what I condemn is their condemning. But the fact is God and Christian history marched on.

If you add to the pages of the Holy Bible (by holding the book of mormon to be inspired), the plagues of the Book of Revelation will be added unto you (Revelation 22:18-19).

If you take away from the pages of the Holy Bible (by holding it to be true only insofar as it is correctly translated) then God will take away your part in those plagues; but He will also take away your part out of the Book of Life and the holy city.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Irritating…I wish you people would look at the definitions of cult! True that even within the last 60 years the definition of cult has changed a few times….but at no time did or does the definition mean, believing in Christian writings or communications or visitations outside of the Holy Bible. Why not show some intelligence? Why not write something that makes sense?

There is nothing wrong with being a Fundamentalist. I go to church with a lot of Fundamentalists…. great people. But that does not necessary mean any one of the 30,000 denominations knows the truth. They have their own perspective of the truth…that is why it is called beliefs. By their concept, God has been silent for 2000 years…By their concepts the Apostles were misled into believing He would return soon…last days. The New Testament documents the first 65 years of Christianity. God and the Angels did not go on vacation after the biblical era. There is no reason to think that God would not communicate to people over the next 2000 years. There is no one that had the power to shut God up!

There are Protestants that have a condemning nature. That is not the nature of Christ. The don’t doers, that believe their relationship with God is defined by what they don’t do. The Mormons and the Catholics believe in the saving grace of Christ. There are Protestants that do not even believe in the spiritual nature of Baptism or the Bread and Wine ritual… some don’t even believe in miracles or the tongues of the Holy Spirit. There are Protestants that give God every characteristic of Satan. Glass houses…Glass houses at best. Then the Protestants have the audacity to condemn those that belief that God has always been active.

If you want to limit yourself to the Holy Bible, to the first 65 years of Christian history, that is fine. I do not condemn the Fundamentalists, opinions vary times 30,000, what I condemn is their condemning. But the fact is God and Christian history marched on.

Are you irritated with me for using the term cult? What term would you use to describe a group that calls itself a certain religion, but includes beliefs that are not a part of that religion? Do you have a term?

We've been over and over the 30,000 denominations. Christians denominations vary quite a bit within the framework of the Bible, but they don't use other sources for basic doctrine. That's the difference between Christian denominations and cults that claim to be Christian.

I didn't limit God to 65 years!! He limited Himself to that amount of time to write the NT. Take it up with Him.

Oh, yeah, condemning the condemners, but who is condemning anyone except you? I'm not!!! Those who don't believe in Jesus Christ are condemned, but it's not my call to say who believes and who doesn't.
.

 

[Grailhunter]

If you add to the pages of the Holy Bible (by holding the book of mormon to be inspired), the plagues of the Book of Revelation will be added unto you (Revelation 22:18-19).

If you take away from the pages of the Holy Bible (by holding it to be true only insofar as it is correctly translated) then God will take away your part in those plagues; but He will also take away your part out of the Book of Life and the holy city.

If you add to the pages of the Holy Bible (by holding the book of mormon to be inspired), the plagues of the Book of Revelation will be added unto you (Revelation 22:18-19).

JBF How you doing?....be knowledgeable my friend, not silly. This is what happens if you do not study Christian history.

The statement in the book of Revelation is referring to the book of Revelation. A separate book. This book would not be selected for the canon for another two centuries. None of the books would be bound until around 350 AD and you will like this, the first bound Bibles were ordered and financed by Constantine...called the 50 Bibles of Constantine.

And you do not want to get me on the topic of what has been changed in every book of the New Testament, long before the Mormons.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

If you add to the pages of the Holy Bible (by holding the book of mormon to be inspired), the plagues of the Book of Revelation will be added unto you (Revelation 22:18-19).

If you take away from the pages of the Holy Bible (by holding it to be true only insofar as it is correctly translated) then God will take away your part in those plagues; but He will also take away your part out of the Book of Life and the holy city.

Except Deuteronomy says practically the same thing.

Obviously these passages refer to their specific book, not a compilation of books that didn't even exist at that time. And they certainly aren't a gag order on God.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Are you irritated with me for using the term cult?

It's not a very useful word. It has many conflicting definitions that limiting it's ability to convey a message, and is very inflammatory.

What term would you use to describe a group that calls itself a certain religion, but includes beliefs that are not a part of that religion? Do you have a term?

Speaking in general you have words like "unorthodox" or "heretical". Those are much more effective.

We've been over and over the 30,000 denominations. Christians denominations vary quite a bit within the framework of the Bible, but they don't use other sources for basic doctrine.

That's not remotely true! Try quoting a Catholic priest at a Calvinist service or vise versa if you really doubt me there.

but it's not my call to say who believes and who doesn't.
.

Then please stop inferring that myself or any other "Mormon" is a cultist or unsaved.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

And you do not want to get me on the topic of what has been changed in every book of the New Testament, long before the Mormons.

Just a thought. If you discredit the Bible, you will be discrediting a book the Mormons say they consider one of their scriptures.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Then please stop inferring that myself or any other "Mormon" is a cultist or unsaved.

Find where I have said that you are a "cultist" or inferred that you are unsaved! Go ahead and quote me!

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Find where I have said that you are a cultist or unsaved! Go ahead and quote me!

Every time you say "Mormonism is a cult".

 

[Grailhunter]

Are you irritated with me for using the term cult? What term would you use to describe a group that calls itself a certain religion, but includes beliefs that are not a part of that religion? Do you have a term?

We've been over and over the 30,000 denominations. Christians denominations vary quite a bit within the framework of the Bible, but they don't use other sources for basic doctrine. That's the difference between Christian denominations and cults that claim to be Christian.

I didn't limit God to 65 years!! He limited Himself to that amount of time to write the NT. Take it up with Him.

Oh, yeah, condemning the condemners, but who is condemning anyone except you? I'm not!!! Those who don't believe in Jesus Christ are condemned, but it's not my call to say who believes and who doesn't.
.

I have seen the word Cult used in this thread and direct or indirect insinuations that Mormons are not Christian.

but includes beliefs that are not a part of that religion? Do you have a term?

The problem you have is that you believe that someone here can define the religion. My term is Christian, if they believe in Christ and believe that the belief in Christ saves.

We've been over and over the 30,000 denominations. Christians denominations vary quite a bit within the framework of the Bible, but they don't use other sources for basic doctrine. That's the difference between Christian denominations and cults that claim to be Christian.

No that is not the difference between Christian denomination and cults. Again no definition of cult means that if you are not a fundamentalist, you are not a Christian or that you are in a cult. There are several Christian denominations that believe that God was very active after the biblical era. This forum has its own definition of cult, meaning....I don't like your religion!

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Every time you say "Mormonism is a cult".

I believe that you are part of a cult, yes. I have NEVER said or inferred that you are unsaved.

 

[Grailhunter]

Just a thought. If you discredit the Bible, you will be discrediting a book the Mormons say they consider one of their scriptures.

Who is discrediting any book?

 

[Prayer Warrior]

I have seen the word Cult used in this thread and direct or indirect insinuations that Mormons are not Christian.

I do not believe that Mormonism is part of Christianity because of their unbiblical doctrines. If you believe that they are, then that is your right.

I have never said that an individual Mormon could not be a Christian or could not be saved. I challenge you to quote where I have said this!

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I believe that you are part of a cult, yes. I have NEVER said or inferred that you are unsaved.

...so you definition of "cult" = a group of saved believers?
I don't think so.

I do not believe that Mormonism is part of Christianity because of their unbiblical doctrines. If you believe that they are, then that is your right.

I have never said that an individual Mormon could not be a Christian or could not be saved. I challenge you to quote where I have said this!

You call me a cultist, and infer that I'm unsaved regularly, and flat out stated here about me and every other LDS person. It's... beyond offensive and inaccurate.

A saved person is a disciple of Christ -- a Christian!!

 

[Prayer Warrior]

No that is not the difference between Christian denomination and cults. Again no definition of cult means that if you are not a fundamentalist, you are not a Christian or that you are in a cult. There are several Christian denominations that believe that God was very active after the biblical era. This forum has its own definition of cult, meaning....I don't like your religion!

You know that I believe that God has been active since the Bible was written and canonized! This is not the issue. The issue is whether a group stays within the confines of the Bible for doctrine or uses sources that contradict the Bible as the basis for doctrine. LDS does the latter (no pun intended).

 

[Prayer Warrior]

You call me a cultist, and infer that I'm unsaved regularly. It's... beyond offensive and inaccurate.

Please don't lie about what I have said. This is a serious offense to me. God will be the judge about who is being offensive here.

 

[Grailhunter]

I do not believe that Mormonism is part of Christianity because of their unbiblical doctrines. If you believe that they are, then that is your right.

I have never said that an individual Mormon could not be a Christian or could not be saved. I challenge you to quote where I have said this!

Unbiblical doctrines is all that needs to be said. As far as Christian doctrines, that is a matter of opinion and beliefs.

Not going to comment on what you said because I would have to review the thread, as far as insinuations on this thread...there have been many.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Not going to comment on what you said because I would have to review the thread, as far as insinuations on this thread...there have been many.

Go ahead! Read the whole thread. You will NOT find me saying of inferring that Jane is not a Christian.