One does not want to be physically raised without first being spiritually raised.
And you whining idiots think this is heresy LMAO
And you whining idiots think this is heresy LMAO
What No Futurist Believes
- Thread starter Hitch
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What we don't think is that you're actually a Christian....you definitely sound like a troll, just like your avitar.
Your quote:
Paul was speaking in the spiritual sense with that idea of "were dead", not in the literal flesh body sense. And the matter is about being forgiven of sins past by the Blood of Jesus Christ. It's NOT about the event of the resurrection. Instead, it's about the "new creature" promise Paul preached, which is still not manifested in full yet, but only when Jesus returns. Or didn't you understand the 'change' at 'the twinkling of eye' that's to occur on the "last trump" per 1 Cor.15, which is when "this mortal" will "put on immortality"???
But that's how you're trying to treat what Paul said, as if the resurrection is only about sins being forgiven by Jesus Christ, which reveals why you put "were dead" in bold.
Moreover, you gave that in attempt to counter my quote of Paul's rebuke to those who were saying the resurrection was past already. You basically put yourself in that same group which Paul rebuked in 2 Tim.2:17-18.
That was getting ready to be one of the points I was going to bring up. You beat me to it.
There's a branch of Christian theology that has been hiding within Christianity for a long time now. Ex-Georgetown University history professor Caroll Quigley revealed part of it in his work Tragedy And Hope. He stated that one of the major aims of British Socialists under the Rhodes program were trying to do was establish Christ's Kingdom literaly today on earth, thinking they were entrusted themselves to 'create' a one world government for that very reason. That is pretty much what the Preterist theology is about today, as its strongest adherents think Christ Jesus' second coming was a spiritual return only, back in the Apostle's days.
Thus they believe eventually, everyone on earth today, is going to be turned to this pseudo-Christ kingdom they're trying to establish here on earth today, PRIOR to our Lord Jesus' actual second coming in our near future.
Those men who believe all that are deceived by others among them that have a whole other purpose for establishing a one-world government of today. The ones fooling them are not representatives of our Lord Jesus Christ at all! Instead, it is their aim to establish a one-world kingom upon this earth today to prepare for the one they worship, i.e., Lucifer. And that's the actual prophecy for the end per our Lord Jesus in His Book of Revelation about 2 beasts, a world kingdom beast over all peoples and nations per Rev.13:1-2 and Rev.17:15, and then the second beast as a religious entity that's coming to proclaim himself as God (2 Thess.2:3-4; Rev.13:11 forward).
So keep watching the hardline Preterist preachers; we're going to see them supporting the unbelieving Jews in Jerusalem with the rebuilding of their temple, and their false messiah coming to sit in it demanding all the world to bow in worship to him.
Retrobyter
Active Member
Shabbat shalom, Trekson.
Just curious. Do you really serve pumpernickel bread in your Communion service or Lord's Supper? Just asking.
To the rest, Shabbat shalom, a Sabbath of peace.
Is it just me or is it too hot in here?
Just curious. Do you really serve pumpernickel bread in your Communion service or Lord's Supper? Just asking.
To the rest, Shabbat shalom, a Sabbath of peace.
Is it just me or is it too hot in here?
Retrobyter
Active Member
Shabbat shalom, Trekson.
You might be using matzot or matzos (the plural of matzah). They look like big, unsalted crackers and don't have much taste, either, but they ARE the "unleavened bread" that the Jews serve at the Passover season for their Seders (the Passover meals). They are made out of matzah meal which is a mixture of unbleached wheat flour and water. The ones that are "kosher l'Pesach" or "kosher for Passover" were made "under the strict supervision of a qualified Rabbi." (Don't ask me what "qualified" him! I don't know.) You can also find them with canola oil and malt added, but these are not strictly "kosher." You can also find them flavored with onions or salted. They just can't have any leavening agent in them to make them rise.
Like a cracker, they're very easy to break and can be broken into smaller wafers for the Communion service; so, they may be your "bland little crackers." If the "white bread" you have used "rose" at all, then that is not "unleavened bread," because "unleavened" means without any yeast or vinegar or anything else that would cause the bread to rise. In fact, Jews, whether Messianic believers or unbelievers, will go through their houses removing the leaven out of their homes before Passover begins. It's like a spring cleaning, looking specifically for anything made with yeast like bread, cookies, fruit bars, and some candies. They must be either thrown out, or they can be given to a Gentile neighbor, but they must be removed before Passover begins.
Sorry for being off-topic, Hitch; just having a little fun. Ahem... Let's see... I think that no Futurist believes that little crackers made of wheat and water can become the literal body of Yeshua`, not even with the magical language of Latin! Is that better?
You might be using matzot or matzos (the plural of matzah). They look like big, unsalted crackers and don't have much taste, either, but they ARE the "unleavened bread" that the Jews serve at the Passover season for their Seders (the Passover meals). They are made out of matzah meal which is a mixture of unbleached wheat flour and water. The ones that are "kosher l'Pesach" or "kosher for Passover" were made "under the strict supervision of a qualified Rabbi." (Don't ask me what "qualified" him! I don't know.) You can also find them with canola oil and malt added, but these are not strictly "kosher." You can also find them flavored with onions or salted. They just can't have any leavening agent in them to make them rise.
Like a cracker, they're very easy to break and can be broken into smaller wafers for the Communion service; so, they may be your "bland little crackers." If the "white bread" you have used "rose" at all, then that is not "unleavened bread," because "unleavened" means without any yeast or vinegar or anything else that would cause the bread to rise. In fact, Jews, whether Messianic believers or unbelievers, will go through their houses removing the leaven out of their homes before Passover begins. It's like a spring cleaning, looking specifically for anything made with yeast like bread, cookies, fruit bars, and some candies. They must be either thrown out, or they can be given to a Gentile neighbor, but they must be removed before Passover begins.
Sorry for being off-topic, Hitch; just having a little fun. Ahem... Let's see... I think that no Futurist believes that little crackers made of wheat and water can become the literal body of Yeshua`, not even with the magical language of Latin! Is that better?
I think I would agree if you had said ........
"One does not want to be physically raised without first being spiritually sealed."
Well Arnie if one is spiritually raised one is also spiritually sealed, its really just a different word for the same thing.
That was the point Vet its nice to see you finally got one right .
.Duh see above.
However despite your silly claim to the contrary Paul continues to liken it to resurrection ;Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, and further; And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
yawn
LOL Idiots are as idiots do. I like the way you pretend to know so many specifics, It must work for in the dim bulb circles of your fellow futurists, and you couldnt be more wrong. But then thats where you excel.
Nonsense,see above
Point? I coud say you're a closet Mormon because they are also millennialists, and it would be as accurate as this childish innuendo . . Id say nice try but really its just another demonstration of how pathetic you can be .
see above
Cold be but they will be in line far behind millions of American futurists.
All that STILL appears to be claiming that the RESURRECTION is past history, which is a false doctrine which Apostle Paul had a rebuke for some about (2 Tim.2:17-18).
Do you believe today Christ's Kingdom is complete here on earth???
LOL Nope ,and at this point you can no longer be mistaken. Since you've read my posts quoting Jesus declaring the resurrection is at the last day whats left is your own dishonesty. And its a shame but unbelievably common among futurists.
Why dont you tell me Vet? You pretend you know all kinds of things about me, why start asking me now? Is it because you're a proud, vain know-it-all without a clue?
The direct answer btw is negative.The kingdom has grown every day since its inauguration, but you dont want it to grow through God's plan. You want it to grow by force. Idiocy. The kingdom grows while Christ is enthroned and the Holy Spirit ministers on earth. Among its other troubles Futurism is usually soft when it comes to the Trinity.
Does that mean you believe the ways on this earth are going to get progressively better, with more people on earth believing on Christ Jesus without His having to come back? Or does that mean you believe there is a major flip coming when Jesus will return literally to reign over all peoples and nations on this earth, including over the unbelieving?
Just when... do you believe our Lord Jesus is going to return to this earth? Or do you believe He is going to literally return or not?
I believe he Holy Spirit perfectly functions in his office and it is to our advantage that Christ remain enthroned in heaven the Holy Spirit minisiters on earth ..
Do you think a throne made by men compares to the seat he occupies today? What could he accomplish by his physical presence that he could not accomplish today? The answer is no, Christ rules with 'all power and authority in heaven and earth, right now, its just that you dont approve of the way he does it . It most certainly does NOT require his bodily prenence.*
And in Jesus Christ his only Son our Lord; who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and buried; he descended into hell; the third day he rose again from the dead; he ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
Notice the Apostle's Creed fails to mention either rapture or millennium .
See above. * Raising the dead ,on the last day,not you believe him anyway, does not requite his bodily presence, obviously he could do so from heaven. As you know there is strong evidence in Scripture and in the Creed copied above, that he will appear bodily to do just that. Since, contrary to your claims, this event happens at the 'last day' final judgement is rendered as mankind is raised from the dead and enters the eternal state.
Then that belief you speak is false, since there is a mountain of Scripture evidence for the literal return of Jesus Christ to this earth. Moreover, He promised to gather... His Church to HIM where He is (John 14). Very obvious that event has not taken place yet today.
John 14:2-3
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto Myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
(KJV)
Impossible to get around that Scripture, and I do not even hold to the Pre-trib Secret Rapture theory of men.
If you're trying to quote Scripture in God's Word The Bible, you need to post the chapter and verse to show it. Here's what my Bible shows...
2 Tim 4:1
1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, Who shall judge the quick and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom;
(KJV)
How is it that Apostle Paul recognized that judgment will happen "at His appearing and His kingdom", when you say there is no need for Christ appearing again?
1 Pet 4:5-7
5 Who shall give account to Him That is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
7 But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.
(KJV)
Even Peter recognized that judgment of the quick and the dead was still "at hand" in his days, not yet having come.
Should the document called The Apostle's Creed take precedence over The Word of God directly? No, obvously not, so I'm not going to even bother discussing what all is in that Creed. By the way, failure of Christ's future Millennium reign on earth being mentioned in that Creed does not mean they refused the Rev.20 "thousand years" reign of Christ and His elect as you do.
The event of Christ raising the dead, and gathering His Church, both from Heaven and on earth, is still a future event to us today. If not, then it would mean believing today's times are already the fulfillment of God's Kingdom on earth, which does not fit what Christ and the OT prophets have already declared.
New to reading ?
* Raising the dead ,on the last day,not you believe him anyway, does not requite his bodily presence, obviously he could do so from heaven. As you know there is strong evidence in Scripture and in the Creed copied above, that he will appear bodily to do just that. Since, contrary to your claims, this event happens at the 'last day' final judgement is rendered as mankind is raised from the dead and enters the eternal state.
Hey idiot could he raise the dead from heaven or not ?
LOL So you jump from your foolish accusations to stating the obvious,
The Creed most certainly take precedence over your ridiculous notions, and iIknow you pretend you're God's own voice, what you really are is a cowarldy blowhard,
Hey idiot you have been invited to show from my post where I've said otherwise, why havent you done so?
Because you're a coward hiding behind a computer screen , but you already knew that.
I'm not the one denying what Christ Jesus said here, you are, simply because you have refused to believe His Own Word about His second coming back to this earth, as written in John 14, Acts 1, Zechariah 14, Rev.11, and all throughout Paul's Epistles.
Apparently, you'd like to keep my Lord Jesus Christ in Heaven away from this earth, thinking to do with this earth what you and your kind want. That's not going to happen. Get ready, the time is very short now. Better hurry up and try to accomplish what you seek to do. Sad that it's all going to be torn down when Jesus comes back though.
It's very, very easy to counter what you say, simply by God's Word. I tend to quote Scripture quite a lot, too bad you haven't noticed, and it's obvious you don't care to notice.
Your fear is still showing.
LOL You're out of your mind I've repeatedly posted that he will return .bodily. Lose your meds coward?
I forgot to thank you for demonstrating thechildish emotionalism so common to futurists. Even so ,since its anyone reading along Im concerned with the Scripture is clear, much cleared that much of the Apocalypse
0 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
the last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
The last day is not when the last enemy is destroyed. Or did you miss that Christ must reign until all His enemies are made His footstool?
1 Cor 15:24-26
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when He shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For He must reign, till He hath put all enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
(KJV)
think that might have something to do with all peoples having to appear before the Judgment Seat of Christ Jesus, don't you?
How is it that Christ must reign... until... He puts all enemies under His feet, and that is STILL not yet happened today??? Maybe you think the coming pseudo-messiah is going to do that for Him, I don't know. Preterism has some crazy ideas.
1 Cor 15:24-26
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when He shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For He must reign, till He hath put all enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
(KJV)
think that might have something to do with all peoples having to appear before the Judgment Seat of Christ Jesus, don't you?
How is it that Christ must reign... until... He puts all enemies under His feet, and that is STILL not yet happened today??? Maybe you think the coming pseudo-messiah is going to do that for Him, I don't know. Preterism has some crazy ideas.
geeeuhhh Iduuno maybe because today wasnt the last day?
Youre sick , idiot.
This tells us in direct terms that today Christ is reigning. Not that he will some day future.
You're really not up to this are you?
Christ Jesus is not reigning on earth yet. He is reigning over His Church on earth, but that's not the same thing as what God's Word declares there 1 Cor.15 about literally reigning over all His enemies until they be made His footstool. That reign is still yet to come. Because you refuse to believe His Word, you will have someone else instead of Christ to reign over you in our near future.
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