What sort of assumption makes one think.......

[marks]

You assume that when Jesus returns it is God who is doing the killing but when I read the account of the wicked calling for the rocks and the mountains to fall on them in Revelation 6:16 it sounds more like mass suicide.

Jesus will do the killing.

Revelation 19:11-21 KJV
11) And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12) His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13) And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14) And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15) And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16) And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
17) And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18) That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19) And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20) And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21) And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Our King is a Mighty Warrior, Who both judges and makes war.

Much love!

 

[Abaxvahl]

If your God is a killer you can be assured that it is not the God of Jesus and you have bought the lie that God is not what he claims to be ie, a God of love nor is it the God John speaks of as having no darkness at all. Who do you think put forward the idea that God is selfish and if you don't do it his way he'll zap you??

God has killed everyone who will ever die.

From Job: "And thinkest thou that the Lord will do wrong, or will the Almighty who made the earth wrest judgment? And who is he that made the whole world under heaven, and all things therein? For if he would confine, and restrain his spirit with himself; all flesh would die together, and every mortal would return to the earth, whence also he was formed."

From Job: "The life of all living things is in his hand, and the breath of every man."

From the Psalms: "All wait upon thee, to give them their food in due season. When thou hast given it them, they will gather it; and when thou hast opened thine hand, they shall all be filled with good. But when thou hast turned away thy face, they shall be troubled: thou wilt take away their breath, and they shall fail, and return to their dust."

And look at what happens when the breath goes forth:

From the Psalms: "Trust not in princes, nor in the children of men, in whom there is no safety. His breath shall go forth, and he shall return to his earth; in that day all his thoughts shall perish."

From Ecclesiastes: "before the dust also return to the earth as it was, and the spirit return to God who gave it."

Now we all know that the Scripture says "it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment," but who do you think scheduled that appointment?

The Lord Himself, see what Moses writes: "In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat thy bread until thou return to the earth out of which thou wast taken, for earth thou art and to earth thou shalt return."

Note the doctrine given also in the first set of verses, when God gives life people are given good, when He restrains Himself the breath leaves us and we die. This shows perfectly how evil is the lack of good and how when death occurs God ceases to give a person that particular good, restraining Himself, and it causes death.

Everyone who will die will die because of God. Literally everyone. Note what St. Paul says of all creation:

"For the eagerly expecting creation awaits eagerly the revelation of the sons of God. For the creation has been subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of the one who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its servility to decay, into the glorious freedom of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans together and suffers agony together until now."

Who exactly do you think "the one who subjected it" is?

Not only this but you seem to assume that God causing the death of someone by removing the breath is somehow a "lack of love." That is a real potter and clay situation, not one of us can complain against what God does, it is impossible. God is love and so are all His acts. Do remember the conquest of Canaan or the slaying of the Amalekites. Even that is perfect love for God willed it.

 

[TEXBOW]

Execution of evildoers is sanctioned by Scripture. The death penalty was God's requirement for many sins and crimes.

Agree.

We all know that after Noah's flood, all living things on the earth were destroyed including the Nephilim from Genesis 6:4. It is presumed that one of the reasons God destroyed the earth was because of this Nephilim, their offspring and also the wickedness of that generation except for eight people in Noah's family and the animals and birds in the Ark. However, in Numbers 13:33 the Nephilim reappeared and Israel is terrified of them.

What may have looked like to us indiscriminate killing post the flood is attributed to our own lack of knowledge. I once heard Pastor Chuck Smith of Calvary Chapel many years ago outline a likely reason for the death and total destruction of certain peoples and tribes/groups including their children many years after the flood. Based upon what we know via Numbers 13:33 it's possible that corrupted genetics (Fallen Angels + Humans = Nephilim) were still active in certain groups of people and in God's wisdom he used the Israelites to destroy those peoples. I trust no matter what the reason it's our lack of knowledge that contributes to our questions on the matter.

 

[TEXBOW]

If you're interested and want to understand, application is required....that's a given!
If you want to hear my answer (which is not that protracted) you will need to read it.

Secondly, I'm assuming you do not want to pit scripture against scripture....soooo, how are we to understand what appears as contradictory?

third option....we can pull the lazy card, put our heads in the sand, cherry pick, crawl into our favourite corner and rattle off any narrative that suits our fancy.....a position not unfamiliar on these boards.

We all know that after Noah's flood, all living things on the earth were destroyed including the Nephilim from Genesis 6:4. It is presumed that one of the reasons God destroyed the earth was because of this Nephilim, their offspring and also the wickedness of that generation except for eight people in Noah's family and the animals and birds in the Ark. However, in Numbers 13:33 the Nephilim reappeared and Israel is terrified of them.

What may have looked like to us indiscriminate killing post the flood is attributed to our own lack of knowledge. I once heard Pastor Chuck Smith of Calvary Chapel many years ago outline a likely reason for the death and total destruction of certain peoples and tribes/groups including their children many years after the flood. Based upon what we know via Numbers 13:33 it's possible that corrupted genetics (Fallen Angels + Humans = Nephilim) were still active in certain groups of people and in God's wisdom he used the Israelites to destroy those peoples. I trust no matter what the reason it's our lack of knowledge that contributes to our questions on the matter.

 

[Wrangler]

That God condones/approves of man killing man and God killing man

<sigh> When you are COMMANDED to do something over and over again, it is NOT an assumption.

Thou shalt not kill....6th Commandment

Most people realize that is a mistranslation. The command is thou shalt not murder.

If God were into killing he would have made a swift end to Lucifer at the outset of his rebellion.

False Alternative. Ecclesiastes is famous for pointing out how there are different seasons and times to kill and times not to kill.

A deep thinker must discern the difference.

 

[marks]

We all know that after Noah's flood, all living things on the earth were destroyed including the Nephilim from Genesis 6:4. It is presumed that one of the reasons God destroyed the earth was because of this Nephilim, their offspring and also the wickedness of that generation except for eight people in Noah's family and the animals and birds in the Ark. However, in Numbers 13:33 the Nephilim reappeared and Israel is terrified of them.

What may have looked like to us indiscriminate killing post the flood is attributed to our own lack of knowledge. I once heard Pastor Chuck Smith of Calvary Chapel many years ago outline a likely reason for the death and total destruction of certain peoples and tribes/groups including their children many years after the flood. Based upon what we know via Numbers 13:33 it's possible that corrupted genetics (Fallen Angels + Humans = Nephilim) were still active in certain groups of people and in God's wisdom he used the Israelites to destroy those peoples. I trust no matter what the reason it's our lack of knowledge that contributes to our questions on the matter.

It's also possible, and I first heard this from Pastor Chuck also, that some cultures had become so depraved that they were all better off dead. When I consider children growing up with the depravities so prevalent in those cultures, that these children can all grow up as damaged as the rest, or be put from their misery and be received by God, well, let's just say I'm not so quick to judge things I don't understand.

Much love!

 

[Wrangler]

Don't you think that would have saved much heartache and grief in every area of human history not to mention the pain it has inflicted on the heart of God. So why didn't he?

ASSUMPTION. You think God created humans, allowed the choice to sin while enjoying no pain?

....and you think these are random expressions and cannot see how they fit into the Controversy that Earth is embroiled in ??? I am absolutely surprised that you should make this comment as one claiming to be a Christian!

On the contrary, it fits perfectly with God’s plan. We must choose good or evil. The devil tempting us only brings out what is there. Such is what God did to pharaoh in hardening his heart.

further....my comment on God giving his life. Was Jesus not the creator of all that exists....was he not God?

No. Never read my signature? I’m a unitarian Christian.

 

[Wrangler]

No one ha# seen God the father at any time

The Scriptures say God, no one has seen God, in his unitarian nature.

Scripture also equates the Father with God, again in his unitarian nature.

 

[Windmillcharge]

There are many divergent views....all claim to believe the bible.
Unless one is open to truth at any cost, even if it means abandoning ones favourite views, one remains trapped.

From that I can only assume that you choose not to believe what the bible says.

 

[Windmillcharge]

Believe the bile?
That threw me . . . until I realised it was a typo. Bible, phew!

Confused me, all my bile tells me is I've eaten too much rich food.

The bible now that does challenge me

 

[TEXBOW]

It's also possible, and I first heard this from Pastor Chuck also, that some cultures had become so depraved that they were all better off dead. When I consider children growing up with the depravities so prevalent in those cultures, that these children can all grow up as damaged as the rest, or be put from their misery and be received by God, well, let's just say I'm not so quick to judge things I don't understand.

Much love!

True. I also think our understanding of death or I should say lack of understanding corrupts our understanding.

Job 34:12
“Surely, God will not act wickedly,
And the Almighty will not pervert justice

 

[Curtis]

n we really believe that the God who allows conception in the womb of a Cannanite woman the same as he does in the womb of a Hebrew woman, who allows it to come full term, who gives life to the children of both women to run and jump and play....can and would this same God approve of one killing the other.......does the same God sanction genocide?

So you just cut the parts out of the Bible you don’t like, which is common.

God once destroyed everyone in the whole world except 8 people, to answer your question.

That’s another part of your Bible to question or ignore.

 

[Curtis]

I'm thinking @quietthinker 's point is that we are just assuming that God sent the fire, and really it was the devil.

Do I have that right?

Much love!

I guess the devil flooded the world, too and killed all but 8 people.

 

[Curtis]

The bottom line is God has wrath against evil and evil doers, and wiped out entire cities that had become wicked, and an entire planet of people with a great flood.

 

[TEXBOW]

Wait until he cast possibly billions into the lake of fire.

 

[Stumpmaster]

Wait until he cast possibly billions into the lake of fire.

Simply for not being predetermined for salvation according to Calvinist diatribe.

 

[Grailhunter]

Ultimatly God is going to deal with ( punish ) all who reject/hate him.
In the OT he laid down in his laws that for his people to reject him was death, that the worship of other gods was death, to promote other gods was death.

God authorised the agressive conquest of cannan and the use of lethal force in the defence of Israel.

This is basic Christianity and basic Christian history.

No it is not. Christianity is a whole new ball game. If you want a really weird and confusing religion....mix Judaism with Christianity.

 

[Grailhunter]

Can we get this clear please. Prove me wrong. There is nothing in Job to marks Satan as a demon in the Old Testament. Judaism is not Christianity. Trying to Christianize the Old Testament skews the meaning of the scriptures. Trying to judge or even understand a lot of God's actions in the OT by Christian standards leads to confusion. The OT Hebrews / Israelites / Jews did not believe in a devil. And they do not believe in a devil to this day. Prove me wrong.

The OT Hebrews / Israelites / Jews were not offered Heaven as a reward. Nor were they threatened with Hell. God nor the prophets talked to anyone about Satan being a devil or about Hell. And again to this day the Jews do not believe in Hell. Prove me wrong.

Mixing Judaism with Christianity only lead to confusion. Trying to judge Judaism by Christian standard only lead to misunderstandings and confusion

There are many divergent views....all claim to believe the bible.

Believing the Bible does not mean you mix Judaism and Christianity to form some morphed religion. Christ warned about mixing them and said it would ruin both.

Reconcile them with the Jesus who claims to be the same yesterday, today and tomorrow!

Jesus is the same but Judaism is not Christianity.

If God were into killing he would have made a swift end to Lucifer at the outset of his rebellion.

First off Lucifer is a Latin word inserted into the Hebrew text and has nothing to do with Satan.

We all know that after Noah's flood, all living things on the earth were destroyed including the Nephilim from Genesis 6:4. It is presumed that one of the reasons God destroyed the earth was because of this Nephilim, their offspring and also the wickedness of that generation except for eight people in Noah's family and the animals and birds in the Ark. However, in Numbers 13:33 the Nephilim reappeared and Israel is terrified of them.

What may have looked like to us indiscriminate killing post the flood is attributed to our own lack of knowledge. I once heard Pastor Chuck Smith of Calvary Chapel many years ago outline a likely reason for the death and total destruction of certain peoples and tribes/groups including their children many years after the flood. Based upon what we know via Numbers 13:33 it's possible that corrupted genetics (Fallen Angels + Humans = Nephilim) were still active in certain groups of people and in God's wisdom he used the Israelites to destroy those peoples. I trust no matter what the reason it's our lack of knowledge that contributes to our questions on the matter.

This is no mystery....This followed Sodom and Gomorrah, And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth....no mystery.

Wow! God most certainly did NOT give his own life for fallen man. No inconsistency.

And you hit the point, and the reason so many cannot understand God or scriptures.
They did not nail Yahweh to a cross.
Yahweh did not beget Himself.
The Father is greater than I...said Christ.
My Father in Heaven....said Christ.
Only the Father knew when the end would come....Not Christ.
Christ did not have the authority to grant John and James mother's request.
Christ did the will of the Father....not Himself.
Yahweh gave authority to Yeshua....Yeshua gave nothing to the Father.
Yeshua did not pray to Himself in the garden of Gethsemane, Jesus utters his agonizing prayer, “Abba, Father, for you all things are possible; remove this cup from me; yet, not what I want, but what you want.”
Yahweh is the Father and Yeshua is the son....and then you have the God that was not given a name....Holy Spirit, is a description.

You guys will never understand God or the scriptures until you get rid of the One God formula for the Trinity.

And why were the Israelite fighting the Pagans in the OT and then invite them into Christianity in the NT? Two different answers.
When I give you a land, you will kill all that breaths and don't forget the little ones. You will kill all the women that were not virgins and keep the virgins for yourself....This is part of the Mosaic Law. Paraphrasing here.

Now why is God giving them land and committing them to war? This takes up a good part of the Torah and then you have Joshua and Judges. Why is God not speaking against Polygamy or concubinage? Why did God regulate polygamy and concubinage through the Mosaic Law? The answer to these question is the same answer. The thing that is funny is that most of those that want to mix Judaism with Christianity, do not even know the Mosaic Law.

You guys do what you want but if you mix Judaism with Christianity and believe the one God formula for the Trinity, you will spend the rest of your lives chasing your tail in an effort to understand God and the Bible. Guaranteed!

 

[quietthinker]

Again, isn't this a matter of record, that God not only sanctioned genocide, He commanded it? Do I really need to assemble and post those passages?

What "I can really believe" seems to be different from what "you can really believe".

Do you know the slaughter of babies can be a mercy at times?

Much love!

Don't you find it strange that the God who is portrayed wholesale in Christian circles as loving does not get rid of Satan at the outset of his rebellion and when Adam and Eve blew it tipping all their progeny into misery and death for eating one fruit.....how easily we can rationalise and arrange our thinking to see and believe the slaughter of babies to be mercy?

What has the evil one done to our heads?? ....even those who claim a God who condescends to become a creature to the point of giving his own life. There is not one pagan deity who would even imagine giving their life for the enemy!! Think about it!

 

[quietthinker]

You then are Universalist?

Much love!

no