What 'Unorthodox' doctrine has come into the church?

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Spyder

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The Early Church Fathers, in general, is the group that started the alteration of the church that Jesus started. Using them as proof of anything should first be seen an unscriptural.

Catholic Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger (Pope Benedict XVI)
The basic form of our (Matthew 28:19 Trinitarian) profession of faith took shape during the course of the second and third centuries in connection with the ceremony of baptism. So far as its place of origin is concerned, the text (Matthew 28:19) came from the city of Rome.

Professor Stuart G. Hall (former Chair of Ecclesiastical History at King's College,
London, England)
“In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,” although those words were not used, as they later are, as a formula. Not all baptisms fitted this rule.”“More common and perhaps more ancient was the simple, “In the name of the LordJesus or, Jesus Christ.” This practice was known among Marcionites and Orthodox; it is certainly the subject of controversy in Rome and Africa about 254, as the anonymous tract De rebaptismate (“On rebaptism”) shows.”

Source: Hall, S. G. (2011). Doctrine and practice in the early church. Wipf and Stock
Publishers., pp 20,21 · The Catholic Encyclopedia
“The baptismal formula was changed from the name of Jesus Christ to the words "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" by the Catholic Church in the second century.” (p. 263)
 
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BreadOfLife

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The Early Church Fathers, in general, is the group that started the alteration of the church that Jesus started. Using them as proof of anything should first be seen an unscriptural.

Catholic Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger (Pope Benedict XVI)
The basic form of our (Matthew 28:19 Trinitarian) profession of faith took shape during the course of the second and third centuries in connection with the ceremony of baptism. So far as its place of origin is concerned, the text (Matthew 28:19) came from the city of Rome.

Professor Stuart G. Hall (former Chair of Ecclesiastical History at King's College,
London, England)
“In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,” although those words were not used, as they later are, as a formula. Not all baptisms fitted this rule.”“More common and perhaps more ancient was the simple, “In the name of the LordJesus or, Jesus Christ.” This practice was known among Marcionites and Orthodox; it is certainly the subject of controversy in Rome and Africa about 254, as the anonymous tract De rebaptismate (“On rebaptism”) shows.”

Source: Hall, S. G. (2011). Doctrine and practice in the early church. Wipf and Stock
Publishers., pp 20,21 · The Catholic Encyclopedia
“The baptismal formula was changed from the name of Jesus Christ to the words "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" by the Catholic Church in the second century.” (p. 263)
Nonsense.

Jesus emphatically stated:
Matt. 28:19
Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, . . .

In Acts 32 and elsewhere, the phrase, “In the name of Jesus Christ” is used. This doesn’t “nullify” what Jesus commanded in Matt. 28. “In the name of” simply means, “by the AUTHOORITY of”.

From Macmillan Dictionary:
1. REPRESENTING someone or something
Ex. - They said they came “in the name of peace.”

From Cambridge Dictionary:
1. REPRESENTING someone or something
Ex. - "Open up in the name of the law" before they broke the door down.

From Thesaurus.com:
“In the name of” synonyms

1. THROUGH
2. THROUGH the agency of
3. Under the AUTHORITY of

From english.stackesxhange.com:
What does “in the name of…” actually mean?
Putting all religious contentions aside for the sake of our language, the etymology of name offers a good place to start understanding:
Old English nama, noma "name, reputation," from Proto-Germanic *namon
(cognates: Old Saxon namo, Old Frisian nama, Old High German namo, German Name, Middle Dutch name, Dutch naam, Old Norse nafn, Gothic namo "name"),
from PIE *nomn- (cognates: Sanskrit nama; Avestan nama; Greek onoma, onyma; Latin nomen; Old Church Slavonic ime, genitive imene; Russian imya; Old Irish ainm; Old Welsh anu "name").

In all cultures, people of authority have always lent their REPUTATION and their authority to their delegates. The founders and leaders of religious movements use the same delegation strategies as the founders and leaders of nations.

The English phrase in the name of simply asserts the REPUTATION and AUTHORITY of another person.

Here us an example from classic literature:
Victor Hugo's Dramas” 1519, page 364:
“Richard Varney, in the name of God and Saint George we dub thee knight!”
 
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The Learner

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The Early Church Fathers, in general, is the group that started the alteration of the church that Jesus started. Using them as proof of anything should first be seen an unscriptural.

Catholic Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger (Pope Benedict XVI)
The basic form of our (Matthew 28:19 Trinitarian) profession of faith took shape during the course of the second and third centuries in connection with the ceremony of baptism. So far as its place of origin is concerned, the text (Matthew 28:19) came from the city of Rome.

Professor Stuart G. Hall (former Chair of Ecclesiastical History at King's College,
London, England)
“In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,” although those words were not used, as they later are, as a formula. Not all baptisms fitted this rule.”“More common and perhaps more ancient was the simple, “In the name of the LordJesus or, Jesus Christ.” This practice was known among Marcionites and Orthodox; it is certainly the subject of controversy in Rome and Africa about 254, as the anonymous tract De rebaptismate (“On rebaptism”) shows.”

Source: Hall, S. G. (2011). Doctrine and practice in the early church. Wipf and Stock
Publishers., pp 20,21 · The Catholic Encyclopedia
“The baptismal formula was changed from the name of Jesus Christ to the words "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" by the Catholic Church in the second century.” (p. 263)
Already refuted by qouting the Catholic Encyclopedia online at newadvent.org

The Catholic Encyclopedia
“The baptismal formula was changed from the name of Jesus Christ to the words "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" by the Catholic Church in the second century.” (p. 263)
 

The Learner

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The Early Church Fathers, in general, is the group that started the alteration of the church that Jesus started. Using them as proof of anything should first be seen an unscriptural.

Catholic Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger (Pope Benedict XVI)
The basic form of our (Matthew 28:19 Trinitarian) profession of faith took shape during the course of the second and third centuries in connection with the ceremony of baptism. So far as its place of origin is concerned, the text (Matthew 28:19) came from the city of Rome.

Professor Stuart G. Hall (former Chair of Ecclesiastical History at King's College,
London, England)
“In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,” although those words were not used, as they later are, as a formula. Not all baptisms fitted this rule.”“More common and perhaps more ancient was the simple, “In the name of the LordJesus or, Jesus Christ.” This practice was known among Marcionites and Orthodox; it is certainly the subject of controversy in Rome and Africa about 254, as the anonymous tract De rebaptismate (“On rebaptism”) shows.”

Source: Hall, S. G. (2011). Doctrine and practice in the early church. Wipf and Stock
Publishers., pp 20,21 · The Catholic Encyclopedia
“The baptismal formula was changed from the name of Jesus Christ to the words "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" by the Catholic Church in the second century.” (p. 263)
The Catholic Encyclopedia
“The baptismal formula was changed from the name of Jesus Christ to the words "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" by the Catholic Church in the second century.” (p. 263) is not online thus can not be verified.
 

The Learner

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Nonsense.

Jesus emphatically stated:
Matt. 28:19
Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, . . .

In Acts 32 and elsewhere, the phrase, “In the name of Jesus Christ” is used. This doesn’t “nullify” what Jesus commanded in Matt. 28. “In the name of” simply means, “by the AUTHOORITY of”.

From Macmillan Dictionary:
1. REPRESENTING someone or something
Ex. - They said they came “in the name of peace.”

From Cambridge Dictionary:
1. REPRESENTING someone or something
Ex. - "Open up in the name of the law" before they broke the door down.

From Thesaurus.com:
“In the name of” synonyms

1. THROUGH
2. THROUGH the agency of
3. Under the AUTHORITY of

From english.stackesxhange.com:
What does “in the name of…” actually mean?
Putting all religious contentions aside for the sake of our language, the etymology of name offers a good place to start understanding:
Old English nama, noma "name, reputation," from Proto-Germanic *namon
(cognates: Old Saxon namo, Old Frisian nama, Old High German namo, German Name, Middle Dutch name, Dutch naam, Old Norse nafn, Gothic namo "name"),
from PIE *nomn- (cognates: Sanskrit nama; Avestan nama; Greek onoma, onyma; Latin nomen; Old Church Slavonic ime, genitive imene; Russian imya; Old Irish ainm; Old Welsh anu "name").

In all cultures, people of authority have always lent their REPUTATION and their authority to their delegates. The founders and leaders of religious movements use the same delegation strategies as the founders and leaders of nations.

The English phrase in the name of simply asserts the REPUTATION and AUTHORITY of another person.

Here us an example from classic literature:
Victor Hugo's Dramas” 1519, page 364:
“Richard Varney, in the name of God and Saint George we dub thee knight!”
Amen, on the authority which I already showed from the NT.
 
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Big Boy Johnson

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The Early Church Fathers, in general, is the group that started the alteration of the church that Jesus started. Using them as proof of anything should first be seen an unscriptural.

This is true... Paul said that when he leaves the planet the are grievous wolves that would move in not sparing the flock

Acts 20:29,30
For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.


He's actually warning that these false teachers would come from within the church!



Already refuted by qouting the Catholic Encyclopedia online at newadvent.org

These are the folks Paul was warning about right there! clueless-doh.gif
 

Spyder

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The Catholic Encyclopedia
“The baptismal formula was changed from the name of Jesus Christ to the words "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" by the Catholic Church in the second century.” (p. 263) is not online thus can not be verified.
file:///D:/Documents/Christian%20Studies/Trinity/Cath%20Encyclopedia_2.pdf
 

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Hobie

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Yes Catholicism=2Thess 2:3--Changed the true God into a trinity as well in 381 at the council of Constantinople., it does not exist. All serving it are being mislead into breaking Gods #1 commandment daily.
I think Christ tells us..
Matthew 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
 
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Spyder

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I think Christ tells us..
Matthew 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
See my post ahead of this one. Scripture never contained the words you show here until the Catholic Church and the ECF changed it.
 
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Keiw

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I think Christ tells us..
Matthew 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Every follower of the true God does everything in his name. But they are not God.
 

Hobie

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This is true... Paul said that when he leaves the planet the are grievous wolves that would move in not sparing the flock

Acts 20:29,30
For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.


He's actually warning that these false teachers would come from within the church!





These are the folks Paul was warning about right there! View attachment 40672
True, it began very soon at Alexandria and Rome while the believers stayed faithful in Antioch and Jerusalem but they had to flee Jerusalem when the Romans destroyed it in AD 70.
 
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Big Boy Johnson

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True, it began very soon at Alexandria and Rome while the believers stayed faithful in Antioch and Jerusalem but they had to flee Jerusalem when the Romans destroyed it in AD 70.

It's interesting to note that Jesus told them to go out in to all the world... and yet they didn't until destruction came in 70 AD
 
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Spyder

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CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Baptism No sign of being changed.
The Manuscript Evidence
There are no known ancient manuscripts of Matthew which contain the ending of Matthew but lack this final episode or that contain it without the Trinitarian formula. Our earliest manuscripts are, of course, fragmentary in places and are missing portions of thMatthewe text due to damage, but every ancient manuscript where the final pages of Matthew have survived contains the account of Jesus giving the great commission and includes the command to baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This is not only true of the Greek manuscripts, but also of the translations of Matthew into other ancient languages. So the manuscript evidence is 100% unanimously in agreement on the ending of Matthew and on the Trinitarian formula. Any theory that wishes to assert that these words are not part of the original has to go outside of and against the actual physical evidence.

The Early Church Writings
There is secondary evidence in the earliest church writings. Our copies of such writings are typically fewer and later than our copies of actual biblical manuscripts, so the manuscripts are far more important to consider when determining the original text, but quotations from early Christian sources are still worth noting and can often provide additional insight. The Didache, considered to be one of the earliest Christian documents outside the New Testament itself, contains instructions on baptism, stating:

“Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in flowing water,” (Didache Chapter 7).

The Didache does not explicitly claim to be quoting the Gospel of Matthew, but it contains numerous striking parallels with Matthew that have led many scholars to suspect that Matthew’s Gospel was a primary source for the Didache. For example, the Didache contains the Lord’s Prayer almost word for word from Matthew (Didache Chapter 8, Matthew 6:9-13) and concludes with warnings about the end times (Didache Chapter 16) remarkably similar to those in Matthew 24. Even if one argues that the Didache is not citing Matthew and instead preserves the same words of Jesus independently of Matthew, it then provides us an additional witness that Jesus really did teach these things, including the Trinitarian formula in His command to baptize.

Justin Martyr, a Christian living in the region of Samaria in the early second century, also affirms that baptism in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit was the practice of the earliest churches.1 Again, Justin does not explicitly cite Matthew as his source, but this additional very early testimony of the Trinitarian formula at baptism is striking. It is also worthy of note that Justin’s student, Tatian, produced a harmony of the four Gospels into one narrative called the Diatessaron which contains the words of Matthew 28:19-20, including the Trinitarian formula.2 Thus, not only is Tatian another early witness that the words were authentically part of Matthew’s gospel, he gives us good reason to think that this is where Justin and his contemporaries derived their practice.

Even the sub-orthodox and often outright heretical “Clementine Homilies” affirm that baptism in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit was the teaching of Jesus and the practice of the early church, and do so through mixing together quotations from the canonical gospels, including Mattew 28:19.3

Irenaeus of Lyons, another important Christian writer of the second century, quotes Jesus as saying:

“Go and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost,” (Against Heresies, Book 3, Chapter 17, Section 1).

Irenaeus, again, does not directly mention deriving this quote from Matthew’s gospel, but he does explicitly say that these were the words of Jesus. Irenaeus acknowledges only the four canonical gospels, and indeed defends the exclusivity of these four gospels a little earlier in the very same book,4 so there is no other plausible source for this quote.

Origen, a writer of the early third century, wrote probably the earliest commentary on Matthew. In it, he cites and expounds on Matthew 28, including the Trinitarian formula.5 He makes a passing reference to the passage as the “words recorded in Matthew” in his Commentary on the Book of John,6 though there he is not specific on the passage’s wording. Taken together, Origen supplies ample evidence that this text was originally part of the Gospel, and cites the passage as containing the Trinitarian formula.

Tertullian, a writer of the late second and early third centuries and the first major theologian to write in Latin rather than Greek, said:

“Accordingly, after one of these [the twelve apostles] had been struck off, He commanded the eleven others, on His departure to the Father, to ‘go and teach all nations, who were to be baptized into the Father, and into the Son, and into the Holy Ghost,'” (A Prescription Against Heretics, Chapter 20).

And elsewhere he writes:

“For the law of baptizing has been imposed, and the formula prescribed: ‘Go,’ He saith, ‘teach the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, (Tertullian, On Baptism, Chapter 8)

So, the early church was filled with references to these words, always attributed to Jesus and often explicitly said to be from the Gospel of Matthew. This only reaffirms what we find in the unanimous manuscript tradition.
Well, sir, I suppose that no other verse in scripture has reference to any baptism in the Triune formula does not serve as evidence to you, and the Didache and ECF letters are not scripture. Your efforts to justify your Trinitarian position may well serve you, but you still have shown me any verses similar to "I am Yahweh, and I use to be alone, but now I have another god for you."
 
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The Learner

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file:///D:/Documents/Christian%20Studies/Trinity/Cath%20Encyclopedia_2.pdf
It is well know that the Montanists were hertics.
"
In so doing, he developed unorthodox teachings about the Holy Spirit: Montanus believed that he himself was the Holy Spirit incarnate. He also led a group of people known for their extreme asceticism and gibbering chants. Appropriately enough, this movement is known as Montanism.

The Montanists believed that true Christianity depended on a mystical experience with the Spirit, and they taught a two-tiered division of believers, distinguishing between ordinary believers and the pneumatakoi, or “spirit-filled” Christians. The pneumatakoi were the “more advanced” group that received a special indwelling (a “baptism”) of the Holy Spirit after conversion. According to the Montanists, a life of true holiness or godliness was not possible if you were not numbered among the pneumatakoi.

Such teaching, the church quickly recognized, flies in the face of the uniform testimony of Scripture that there is but one faith and one baptism (Eph. 4:4–6). God’s Word knows nothing of a Christian who does not possess the Holy Spirit, and there is no warrant for seeking a baptism in the Spirit after conversion."
 

The Learner

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" Eusebius, a third-century church historian, wrote the following of Montanus: “In his lust for leadership, he became obsessed and would suddenly fall into frenzy and convulsions. He began to be ecstatic and speak and talk strangely, and prophesied contrary to that which was the custom from the beginning of the church. Those who heard him were convinced that he was possessed. They rebuked him and forbade him to speak, remembering the warning of the Lord Jesus to be watchful because false prophets would come” (Ecclesiastical History, 5.16.1). Montanus was joined by two women, Priscilla and Maximilla, who also prophesied in trance-like or ecstatic states.
Montanus insisted that the Holy Spirit was speaking through him in his ecstatic utterances. In fact, he claimed to be the embodiment of the Spirit of Truth sent by Jesus in fulfillment of John 14:26. Followers of Montanism also claimed inspiration for themselves, saying that their words of revelation were as authoritative as anything in Scripture. Often, they could not even be understood. They were known for speaking in tongues, prattling, and chanting nonsense.

The Montanists differentiated themselves from “ordinary” Christians in that they were “Spirit-filled,” and other Christians were not. The Montanists saw themselves as possessing a more advanced form of Christianity, having received a special baptism of the Spirit that enabled them to live a life of holiness.

Montanus and his two prophetesses, who together called themselves “the Three,” taught a strict moral code. Lengthy fasts were required. Marriage was discouraged, and second marriages were prohibited outright.
"
 

The Learner

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I tim 4:3 They will prohibit marriage
 

The Learner

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Montanism

"The encyclical letter recounting the martyrdom of Blandina was addressed to the brethren in Asia Minor and Phrygia, "who have the same faith and hope of redemption as we" (Eusebius, The History of the Church, V.1.3). It was "at that very time," relates Eusebius (V.3.4), that a heresy arose in Phrygia, promulgated by Montanus, a former priest of Cybele (Magna Mater) who "began to acquire a widespread reputation for prophecy," together with his two female adherents, Priscilla (Prisca) and Maximilla, who "chattered crazily, inopportunely, and wildly, like Montanus himself" (V.16.9).

"I am the Lord God, the Almighty, who abide in man" (Epiphanius, Panarion, XLVIII.11.1) said Montanus; "I am the Father, the Word, and the Paraclete" (Didymus, De Trinitate, III.41).

Maximilla was said to have exclaimed, "I am speech and spirit and power" (Eusebius,V.16.17)."

 

The Learner

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Well, sir, I suppose that no other verse in scripture has reference to any baptism in the Triune formula does not serve as evidence to you, and the Didache and ECF letters are not scripture. Your efforts to justify your Trinitarian position may well serve you, but you still have shown me any verses similar to "I am Yahweh, and I use to be alone, but now I have another god for you."
They are history of what the early church believed. And, they were taught by the Apostles themselves. I already posted proof that Matthew text was not added later.
 

Keiw

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They are history of what the early church believed. And, they were taught by the Apostles themselves. I already posted proof that Matthew text was not added later.
The early church knew nothing of God being a trinity-Why? Because the true God is not a trinity.
 
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