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Featured What Was Israel Ordained For?

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by Davy, Apr 8, 2019.

  1. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    I'm wondering what it is that you see that says these things to you.

    Much love!
     
  2. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    To them were given the oracles of God; and the Royal line of Judah was the means of the coming into the world of the Messiah.
     
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  3. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    The 12 tribes were serving God according to that passage. My question is, where were they serving God?

    How lost could they be?

    They don't seem lost to the writer.

    Much love!
    mark
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019
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  4. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    The Bible makes it clear 12 tribes around. Just read Revelation.
     
  5. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    I think this notion of 10 lost tribes is so that people can claim to be one of them.

    Much love!
    Mark
     
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  6. Helen

    Helen Well-Known Member

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    Yes, yes, yes, yes...did I say YES!!!! :D

    Romantic concept, but untrue.
     
  7. Lady Crosstalk

    Lady Crosstalk Well-Known Member

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    They were called the Ten Lost Tribes by the Jews. The Jews thought more of group identity than we do. We follow the Western tradition of individualism. They weren't lost in the sense that we think of when someone is lost in the forest, for example. When we say it, we mean that we can't locate them. When the Jews said it about the Ten Lost Tribes, it is that many (perhaps the majority) lost their identity as part of a tribe of Israel.
     
  8. Reggie Belafonte

    Reggie Belafonte Well-Known Member

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    The 12 Tribes have not meant twaddle for 2000 years.
    Any clown that is trying to make out that they are on one or the other Tribe is just insane. not to mention racist madness that only worthy of Nazi type of trash.

    Anyone who looks to the people who claim to be Jews and thinks that they are people worthy of God is not a Christian, fact is that they are Anti-Christ in fact.
     
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  9. Lady Crosstalk

    Lady Crosstalk Well-Known Member

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    John the Apostle said in 1st John that anyone who denies that Jesus is the Son of God is Antichrist--and this, of course, is true of the Jewish religion. But it is also true of Islam. I believe that God the Father will do a work among both Jews and Muslims (in fact, He already is--many of both are coming to recognize their Savior, Jesus).
     
  10. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like British Israelism to me. Possibly Armstrongism. Not Bible Christianity.

    British-Israelism refuted!
    Anglo/British Israelism Herbert W. Armstrong REFUTED!
     
  11. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    I answered your question. You just don't want to accept God's Truth as written. Luke 24:47 shows The Gospel was to be preached first at Jerusalem. You tried to use Matthew 10 to prove the ten tribes were together with Judah then because of Christ's command for His disciples to not go to the Gentiles at the first, but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. But in actuality, Christ's later command was for them to take The Gospel to the nations, which you failed to mention.

    And the reality of the scattered Israelites by the time of Jesus' 1st coming was that even the majority of the "house of Judah" (Jews) that had been captive to Babylon did NOT... RETURN to Jerusalem after the 70 years. The majority of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi were ALSO scattered among the Gentiles like the ten tribes were 130 years earlier. This is why I quoted James 1:1 to you, as he addressed all 12 tribes scattered abroad. The Jews at Judea in Jesus' day were just a small remnant that returned from Babylon.
     
  12. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    Well, what does the Genesis 49:10 verse declare? And who is that "Shiloh" a symbolic name for?
     
  13. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    That's interesting!

    Lost in the sense of Benjamin in the book of Judges, is that the idea?

    It must be the majority of the 10 tribes, to my thinking.

    So then, the Jews spoke of the 10 Lost Tribes as that Israel was 12 tribes, and went down to 2, except the small remnent, the other 10 lost to the nations.

    And others speak of the 10 Lost Tribes as hidden among the gentiles, and we can claim identity as those.

    Like that?

    Much love!
    Mark
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019
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  14. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    There's a nice invitation to continue to debate. You know that these sorts of statement tend to put people off, right? Is that why you make them, hoping I'll go away?

    Much love!
    Mark
     
  15. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    The 12 tribes were serving God according to WHAT passage?

    I tell you, in Jesus' day, the majority of the 12 tribes of Israel were scattered in the countries, just as God promised He would do to them for disobeying Him (Deut.4 & 28). And that is why James in James 1:1 addressed only some of them that were scattered abroad, meaning a remnant among the scattered 12 tribes.

    The Jewish historian Josephus (100 A.D.) said that the ten tribes were still beyond Euphrates, and were a great number of people.

    "And when these Jews had understood what piety the King had towards God, and what kindness he had for Esdras, they were all greatly pleased. Nay many of them took their effects with them, and came to Babylon; as very desirous of going down to Jerusalem. But then, the intire body of the people of Israel remained in that countrey. Wherefore there are but two tribes in Asia and Europe, subject to the Romans: while the ten tribes are beyond Euphrates till now; and are an immense multitude, and not to be estimated by numbers."
    (Antiquities of the Jews, Flavius Josephus, book XI, 5.2)

    The two tribes in Asia and Europe Josephus said were subject to the Romans were the Jews of the "house of Judah", i.e., the tribes of Judah and Benjamin.
     
  16. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    "The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be."

    That's the KJV anyway.

    So . . . I was wondering what you saw.

    Much love!
     
  17. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    I'm not British. And Britain is only ONE nation, not a "multitude of nations" Jacob said the seed of Ephraim would become per Genesis 48. Armstrong, et al, tried to apply that just to Great Britain.

    The "multitude of nations" of Ephraim are represented by the western nations where the majority of the ten tribes of the "house of Israel" were scattered to, which ought to be obvious once Jesus had died on the cross and The Gospel was preached after Jerusalem mainly to those western nations of Asia Minor and Europe, and the majority of them accepted The Gospel on national scales, Great Britain being the first nation to do that.
     
  18. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    If your argument is that the lost sheep of the house of Israel are the 10 lost tribes, I'm saying that the Gospel puts those 10 lost tribes in Israel, as Jesus sends His disciples to them, the lost sheep of the house of Israel, and tells them to not go in the way of the gentiles, i.e. where they are, or the Samaritans.

    That Jesus would later tell them to go to all nations, a different instruction at a different time, not changing the fact that Jesus sent His disciples specifically within Israel only, and specifically to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

    To me this doesn't really affect the question of who the 10 tribes are, only that I would not use that designation for them.

    Much love!
    mark
     
  19. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Hi Davy,

    In Acts 26:6-8, Paul writes,

    "And now I stand and am judged for the hope of the promise made of God, unto our fathers: Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come. For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews. Why should it be thought a thing incredible with you, that God should raise the dead?"

    Another translation would be that "our twelve tribes, intently serving God day and night".

    My question was,

    "The Twelve Tribes were serving God. Where?"

    Yes, I believe only a small remnent remained in Israel, compared to what once had been.

    But doesn't James simply write, "to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad"?

    Were there not more than one "scattering"? There was the dispersion of the northern kingdom by Assyria. There was the captivity of the southern kingdom, which included the faithful remnent of the northern kingdom, by Babylon.

    There was the diaspora in the apostolic times when Herod began the persecution of the church, and the Jews when out.

    It sounds like these tribes aren't lost either.

    Josephus may or may not be writing in the same manner as God wrote when He wrote the Bible. And I would have no surprise that God might seal Jews who live in any or all nations when the angel puts the seal of God on the foreheads of 144,000 of them. Just the same I read the Bible over Josephus, and endeavor to form my understandings from the Bible over any other source.

    As I read Scripture I see the unbelieving on their own, with a faithful remnent preserved. This seems to repeat over and over. Exactly how we parse who the tribes of Israel are, God will regather them, and give to them the promises He made so many centuries ago. Yet remaining faithful to His word, to Himself, He will do exactly what He said He would do for His chosen people.

    Much love!
     
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  20. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    Since you like to play, as shown in your previous posts with your little quirky statements, back at ya.
     
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  21. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for putting a big smile on my face!

    :)

    I only hope my little quirky statements are pleasant! If provocative. I equally hope I remain on "my side of the fence", that is, not make negative personal declarations about others.

    Much love!
    Mark
     
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