What was the thorn in Paul’s side?

[Nancy]

they did pretend, thats true. However, it illustrates how they see....and that seeing looks weird. Dramatics and charlatans!

I do see that now but to be honest here, I should have watched the whole thing before sharing it. Was very misleading, really. Live and (hopefully) learn :) check it out even if it comes from a somewhat trusted source...

 

[stunnedbygrace]

When I was watching it back then, they were all talking about sowing a seed of money (to them, of course) and that you would get back 5 fold or something. One day, one of them started it, then others started doing it. Then one lady was selling special praying shawls.
I remember God called a verse to my mind but I don’t remember which, something about magic amulets in the OT.
I should go see it again to see if they still are doing those things.
I do remember I found one guy I liked on there though. Perry Stone.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I do see that now but to be honest here, I should have watched the whole thing before sharing it. Was very misleading, really. Live and (hopefully) learn :) check it out even if it comes from a somewhat trusted source...

well it sure was funny.

 

[quietthinker]

I do see that now but to be honest here, I should have watched the whole thing before sharing it. Was very misleading, really. Live and (hopefully) learn :) check it out even if it comes from a somewhat trusted source...

tell me Nancy, what are you when you're not honest here? :)

 

[Nancy]

tell me Nancy, what are you when you're not honest here? :)

Oh sheesh, was only expounding on the previous post. No, really, trust me!

 

[quietthinker]

Oh sheesh, was only expounding on the previous post. No, really, trust me!

is that like sheesh kebab or sheesh ouldn't 'ave?

 

[Stumpmaster]

Now what was the thorn in Paul’s flesh? I have no idea it would have been nice if he would have written it down, but He pleaded three times, for this personal delivery,

Oh but he did write it down.
The context of the preceding chapters and particularly the list of challenges faced (see below) lead up to Paul's defining statement where he both identifies the demonic source of his persecution and the divine purpose it serves.

2Co 11:23-33
(23) Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more;

• in labours more abundant,
• in stripes above measure,
• in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft. (24)
• Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one. (25)
• Thrice was I beaten with rods,
• once was I stoned,
• thrice I suffered shipwreck,
• a night and a day I have been in the deep; (26)
• In journeyings often,
• in perils of waters,
• in perils of robbers,
• in perils by mine own countrymen,
• in perils by the heathen,
• in perils in the city,
• in perils in the wilderness,
• in perils in the sea,
• in perils among false brethren; (27)
• In weariness and painfulness,
• in watchings often,
• in hunger and thirst,
• in fastings often,
• in cold and nakedness. (28)
• Beside those things that are without, that which comes upon me daily, the care of all the churches. (29)
• Who is weak, and I am not weak? who is offended, and I burn not? (30)
• If I must needs glory, I will glory of the things which concern mine infirmities.

(31) The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knows that I lie not. (32)

• In Damascus the governor under Aretas the king kept the city of the Damascenes with a garrison, desirous to apprehend me: (33)
• And through a window in a basket was I let down by the wall, and escaped his hands.

The message from Satan to Paul was don't preach the Gospel or face constant antagonism, and this was a thorn in Paul's flesh because it dealt to his pride, which is a work of the flesh.

2Co 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

God's grace is sufficient to prevent works of the flesh in His servants when they see His hand at work in their humbling.

 

[Taken]

What was the thorn in Paul’s side?
OP ^

The continual annoyance of a Converted (spiritual) man existing ON Earth, among Unconverted (carnal) men ON Earth....
WHOM, (such Unconverted men)...are everywhere continually working to silence, block, discredit, gaslight, eliminate...Pauls’
Teaching and Preaching...
(recognize a similitude in these days?)


Num 33:
[55] But if ye will not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you; then it shall come to pass, that those which ye let remain of them shall be pricks in your eyes, and thorns in your sides, and shall vex you in the land wherein ye dwell.

Care for a parallel?
(Drive out the power sitters, illegals, pricks, thorns, vax, in the land where you dwell...)

 

[farouk]

What was the thorn in Paul’s side?
OP ^

The continual annoyance of a Converted (spiritual) man existing ON Earth, among Unconverted (carnal) men ON Earth....
WHOM, (such Unconverted men)...are everywhere continually working to silence, block, discredit, gaslight, eliminate...Pauls’
Teaching and Preaching...
(recognize a similitude in these days?)


Num 33:
[55] But if ye will not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you; then it shall come to pass, that those which ye let remain of them shall be pricks in your eyes, and thorns in your sides, and shall vex you in the land wherein ye dwell.

Care for a parallel?
(Drive out the power sitters, illegals, pricks, thorns, vax, in the land where you dwell...)

The application for the church spiritual rather than political, I reckon....

 

[Taken]

The application for the church spiritual rather than political, I reckon....

All men, spiritual or carnal, have a governing power over them.
That governing power either protects an individuals liberty or oppresses an individuals liberty...so I do consider what is (per governance) in addition to what is religiously.

A converted mans governing Master is God.
An unconverted mans governing Master is Men.

Merry Christmas,
Taken

 

[farouk]

All men, spiritual or carnal, have a governing power over them.
That governing power either protects an individuals liberty or oppresses an individuals liberty...so I do consider what is (per governance) in addition to what is religiously.

A converted mans governing Master is God.
An unconverted mans governing Master is Men.

Merry Christmas,
Taken

....otherwise it can descend into crude, anti-foreigner nationalism; whereas the calling of the church is to evangelize with the opportunities that the Lord gives, rather than to be cheerleaders for xenophobia.

Have a great Christmas.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Oh but he did write it down.
The context of the preceding chapters and particularly the list of challenges faced (see below) lead up to Paul's defining statement where he both identifies the demonic source of his persecution and the divine purpose it serves.

2Co 11:23-33
(23) Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more;

• in labours more abundant,
• in stripes above measure,
• in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft. (24)
• Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one. (25)
• Thrice was I beaten with rods,
• once was I stoned,
• thrice I suffered shipwreck,
• a night and a day I have been in the deep; (26)
• In journeyings often,
• in perils of waters,
• in perils of robbers,
• in perils by mine own countrymen,
• in perils by the heathen,
• in perils in the city,
• in perils in the wilderness,
• in perils in the sea,
• in perils among false brethren; (27)
• In weariness and painfulness,
• in watchings often,
• in hunger and thirst,
• in fastings often,
• in cold and nakedness. (28)
• Beside those things that are without, that which comes upon me daily, the care of all the churches. (29)
• Who is weak, and I am not weak? who is offended, and I burn not? (30)
• If I must needs glory, I will glory of the things which concern mine infirmities.

(31) The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knows that I lie not. (32)

• In Damascus the governor under Aretas the king kept the city of the Damascenes with a garrison, desirous to apprehend me: (33)
• And through a window in a basket was I let down by the wall, and escaped his hands.

The message from Satan to Paul was don't preach the Gospel or face constant antagonism, and this was a thorn in Paul's flesh because it dealt to his pride, which is a work of the flesh.

2Co 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

God's grace is sufficient to prevent works of the flesh in His servants when they see His hand at work in their humbling.

Excellent. Without all that pain and suffering he endured, he would have felt exalted, prideful. God kept him humble.
Another passage came to mind, something all of us struggle with at one time or another. Sin that dwells in the members of our flesh, causing us to do things that we don't want to do, such as a bad habit you can't seem to get rid of. One may feel shame for thoughts of lust for instance. Someone else may have pride in their intellect, a superiority complex. ?? Anyways he struggled with doing something that he did not want to do. And then he said, "it is not I who does it, but sin that dwells in me." see Romans 7:15-25
This bad habit that he backslid into, a particular sin that surfaced once in awhile possibly would keep him from feeling exalted.
God sanctifies us from our bad habits, some we let go quickly and are healed of them, others take time. Even though we are dead to sin, the flesh wars against the spirit sometimes. Eventually, as we grow spiritually, the fruit of the Spirit grows, like patience and self-control.

 

[Nancy]

is that like sheesh kebab or sheesh ouldn't 'ave?

Ah, I can hear that accent from an Aussie!, no, it's more like "shiver me timbers, don't pick on me"
Merry Christmas Q.T.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Merry Christmas Nancy. Don’t break anything. ;)(Private joke guys, sorry.)

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

I believe he was referring to his very poor eyesight, almost blind. Possible as a follow on from when he was knocked off his donkey. But there are several clues throughout his letters that lead to this, although none of them definitive. First, he wrote only one of his letters himself, all the others were dictated and even remarked in that letter that they should take all the more notice because he wrote it himself.
Second, in his writing to one church he was praising them for their generosity, and suggested that they loved him so much, they would give him their own eyes if it were possible. These are off the top of my head, I think there are other clues as well leading to the same conclusion.

The all too obvious problem with this belief is that Paul explained exactly what the "thorn" was in the same verse he mentioned it, and it had nothing to do with his eyesight:

"And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure." - 2 Cor. 12:7

As Paul himself stated, the "thorn" was a messenger of Satan. In other words, God allowed Paul to be persecuted by false ministers and possibly Orthodox Jews so he wouldn't develop a big head about being an apostle. If Paul's eyesight was as bad as people believe it was, he would've absolutely been killed in any of the occasions where he was sentenced to fight wild animals to the death(see 1 Cor. 15:32).

In Gal. 4:15, Paul was speaking figuratively about the Galatians giving him their eyes in the same way someone today would say they would give an arm or a leg to see their favorite singer perform at a concert. It was not meant to be read literally, which is why Paul said "if possible, you would have plucked out your eyes and given them to me". Paul was using figurative language to describe the level of gratitude the Galatians had for being able to hear the gospel.

 

[Nancy]

Merry Christmas Nancy. Don’t break anything. ;)(Private joke guys, sorry.)

Hahaha...thanks, back at you. Not much left to break J/K. Nope, haven't broken anything for a while now :) Preciate the reminder

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

The all too obvious problem with this belief is that Paul explained exactly what the "thorn" was in the same verse he mentioned it, and it had nothing to do with his eyesight:

"And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure." - 2 Cor. 12:7

As Paul himself stated, the "thorn" was a messenger of Satan. In other words, God allowed Paul to be persecuted by false ministers and possibly Orthodox Jews so he wouldn't develop a big head about being an apostle. If Paul's eyesight was as bad as people believe it was, he would've absolutely been killed in any of the occasions where he was sentenced to fight wild animals to the death(see 1 Cor. 15:32).

In Gal. 4:15, Paul was speaking figuratively about the Galatians giving him their eyes in the same way someone today would say they would give an arm or a leg to see their favorite singer perform at a concert. It was not meant to be read literally, which is why Paul said "if possible, you would have plucked out your eyes and given them to me". Paul was using figurative language to describe the level of gratitude the Galatians had for being able to hear the gospel.

A "Messenger of Satan", who persecuted him? Yep, it's right there. Persecution can be a thorn in our side. We can plead to God to get rid of our foes, relieve us of a tortuous journey, pain and suffering ( inflicked by Satan) ... and sometimes God says no. Jesus did tell them to pick up their cross and follow him, that they would all suffer to their death.

 

[GTW27]

Merry Christmas to all, and thank you Lord for coming in the flesh. "My Grace is sufficient for you" Indeed, The Lord's grace is sufficient for all who are born from above. For we have received both The Father and The Son. On my journey, I have had a thorn in the side, and yet I had to keep walking forward. The Lord allows this, so that we grow closer to Him and we increase In Him and Him in us. On my journey The Lord put me in the public, right in the mist of people. This is the opposite of when I walked in darkness. All of the fruit of The Spirit are within us as The Lord is within us. Walking in Him and Him in us, shows the world The Gospel message, sometimes without speaking a word. Returning good for evil becomes the norm. Now on these boards there are some that have a thorn and yet they do not know it, nor can they perceive it. They think it part of themselves for it comes and it goes. With Paul, he pleaded with The Lord to take it away and yet The Lord knew that His Grace was sufficient for him. My calling, I truly know I am not worthy, and sometimes I wonder what The Lord sees in me, and why He is so faithful to me, when I do not deserve it. He is so Good.(tears) With me, The Lord has given me eyes to see and ears to hear. This is The Lords doing. The gift of discerning of spirits discerns the evil and The Good. The Good is The Presence of God and the evil is the enemy and all his soldiers(demons). Now picture for a moment me standing in a room with one of the enemies solders. I can perceive that anger, that grumpiness, that hatred. It feels like it is me and yet it is not. This is done to get me to stumble(sin) and yet The Lords Grace is sufficient for me. Today, a meek gentle rebuke sends the enemy on his way. We are not ignorant of the enemies devices. Today I tell you, some of his devices are depression, anxiety, and fear. But there is none of this in Christ Jesus. None of us can answer the question to what exactly Paul's thorn of the flesh was, except that it was a messenger of satan sent to buffer him. I have written these words to be considered, and I know that I will pay for them, but His Grace is sufficient for me. If only one, has faith, and says no, and then rebukes in The Power and Authority of Jesus then it would worth writing this. May all increase in the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus. Amen.

 

[quietthinker]

Ah, I can hear that accent from an Aussie!, no, it's more like "shiver me timbers, don't pick on me"
Merry Christmas Q.T.

oh shucks....but I don't drink Nancy.....least not the merry making stuff. Sorry, I'm just a bore!

 

[Nancy]

oh shucks....but I don't drink Nancy.....least not the merry making stuff. Sorry, I'm just a bore!

Lol...no rum involved bro!