Well when you disregard what God desires, then you do things which end up harming you, as that's why He tells us in His Word.
What will happen to Christians who reject the Sabbath?
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Pancho Frijoles
Active Member
I agree with you and I have passionately defended Seventh Day Adventists from acusations of “legalism”.
However, for that same reason, I defend Christians who choose to observe Sundays or eat pork from acusations of “desobedience”.
Paul was very clear in that Christians should not look down to other people for not following rituals… even a ritual established before Moses and that was given as “permanent covenant”: circumsicion.
Berean
Active Member
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
Please define "look down to."
From what, exactly, are you defending people—imaginary assaults in voluntary forum discussion?
What's your attitude regarding Christians who don't observe the rituals of baptism or communion, or are you of a mind that Christians needn't do anything at all to affirm their faith publicly?
By the way, I think you might play favorites since you "passionately defend" one group and simply "defend" the other.
And I lo-o-ove frijoles.
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BlessedPeace
Well-Known Member
What will happen? Nothing.
The Sabbath was a gift of God unto us so that we could take a day away from all that occupies our attentions while we are within the world,though not of it, and spend time with Father.
Those who insist it's for Jews only aren't aware Yeshua was one. And that's OK.
We answer to God. For every word. Including anti-Sabatarian rhetoric.
The Sabbath was a gift of God unto us so that we could take a day away from all that occupies our attentions while we are within the world,though not of it, and spend time with Father.
Those who insist it's for Jews only aren't aware Yeshua was one. And that's OK.
We answer to God. For every word. Including anti-Sabatarian rhetoric.
Pancho Frijoles
Active Member
Hi Barney Fire!
I was thinking in a forum where I participated for years.
Observers of the Seventh Day were accused of not living under the grace of God. Therefore, not saved. Therefore, deserving eternal torment.
By the same token, observers of Sunday were visualized as getting the “mark of the beast”, and becoming persecutors of those who observe Sabbath. Therefore, damned ans eligible for destruction.
Both positions seemed to me irrational, dangerous, and contrary to the spirit of the Gospel.
My attitude is of profound respect to those who choose to preserve external rituals and for those who choose not to follow rituals.
I try to follow Paul on this: if someone wants to remove his foreskin, or abstain from pork, or become vegetarian, or keep their hair uncut, or wear special underware, or rest on Sundays or Saturdays, or baptize, or fast, because these symbols or rituals remind them of their commitments to God, or helps them in their spiritual journey, good for them.
But if someone tries to treat them as “saved “ or “damned” because of their choice on these matters, something is really wrong in their understanding of the eternal Gospel of Jesus Christ,
It depends more on who is the underdog at any given moment of a debate or interaction.
But probably you are right and I may be biased towards defending Advenstists because I have more emotional ties with my Adventist friends and my own Adventist past. So, thanks for having pointed this out because now I am aware of my bias.
I love frijoles too. Although over the last years, as I have got older, I am less and less able to digest them properly.And I lo-o-ove frijoles.
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Truth7t7
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God has (10) commandments today that are active not (9), yes we as Christians are to observe and acknowledge God's sabbath day of rest and it's not Roman Emperor Constatines Sunday
Wikipedia: Sol Invictus
Constantine decreed (March 7, 321) dies solis – the day of the Sun, "Sunday" – as the Roman day of rest
Will you be great or least in the kingdom?
Matthew 5:19KJV
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
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BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
Hi Barney Fire!
I was thinking in a forum where I participated for years.
Observers of the Seventh Day were accused of not living under the grace of God. Therefore, not saved. Therefore, deserving eternal torment.
By the same token, observers of Sunday were visualized as getting the “mark of the beast”, and becoming persecutors of those who observe Sabbath. Therefore, damned ans eligible for destruction.
Both positions seemed to me irrational, dangerous, and contrary to the spirit of the Gospel.
My attitude is of profound respect to those who choose to preserve external rituals and for those who choose not to follow rituals.
I try to follow Paul on this: if someone wants to remove his foreskin, or abstain from pork, or become vegetarian, or keep their hair uncut, or wear special underware, or rest on Sundays or Saturdays, or baptize, or fast, because these symbols or rituals remind them of their commitments to God, or helps them in their spiritual journey, good for them.
But if someone tries to treat them as “saved “ or “damned” because of their choice on these matters, something is really wrong in their understanding of the eternal Gospel of Jesus Christ,
It depends more on who is the underdog at any given moment of a debate or interaction.
But probably you are right and I may be biased towards defending Advenstists because I have more emotional ties with my Adventist friends and my own Adventist past. So, thanks for having pointed this out because now I am aware of my bias.
I love frijoles too. Although over the last years, as I have got older, I am less and less able to digest them properly.
I'm afraid I wouldn't have any idea how to treat someone as saved or damned. I hear this kind of thing all the time and I just don't get it. If someone leans too heavily on me about any point of doctrine, I figure I'm free to log off or put them on -ignore-, so I just have no idea what all the fuss is about.
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You can use this logic to defend gays, transgenders, pedophiles, anything that is a sin or abomination to God, need to think that over..
Pancho Frijoles
Active Member
Hi Hobie
The logic applies to external rituals, because what was important for Paul was to preserve the unity in Christ within the communities.
Paul was worried about converted Jews judging converted Greeks by things that were now all optional:
Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day
(Col 2:16)
Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God’s commands is what counts. (1 Cor 7:19)
Phoneman777
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- Jan 14, 2015
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The Sabbath commandment is one of God's commandments that counts:
"It is therefore the duty of the people of God to keep the Sabbath". - Hebrews 4: 9 Lamsa's Peshitta
Pancho Frijoles
Active Member
Hi Phoneman777
Thanks for your message.
The new day to rest mentioned in Hebrews 4:9, is "Today". Today is the new, spiritual Sabbath, where we are encouraged to enter.
Converted hebrews were still keeping the seventh day, and that was fine, but they still needed to enter the spiritual rest, the most important one.
Therefore since it still remains for some to enter that rest, and since those who formerly had the good news proclaimed to them did not go in because of their disobedience, 7 God again set a certain day, calling it “Today.” This he did when a long time later he spoke through David, as in the passage already quoted: “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts.”[d]
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10 for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works,[e] just as God did from his. 11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.
The Gospel of Jesus offers you the possibility of entering that rest.
“Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. (Mt 11:28)
Thanks for your message.
The new day to rest mentioned in Hebrews 4:9, is "Today". Today is the new, spiritual Sabbath, where we are encouraged to enter.
Converted hebrews were still keeping the seventh day, and that was fine, but they still needed to enter the spiritual rest, the most important one.
Therefore since it still remains for some to enter that rest, and since those who formerly had the good news proclaimed to them did not go in because of their disobedience, 7 God again set a certain day, calling it “Today.” This he did when a long time later he spoke through David, as in the passage already quoted: “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts.”[d]
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10 for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works,[e] just as God did from his. 11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.
The Gospel of Jesus offers you the possibility of entering that rest.
“Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. (Mt 11:28)
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Pancho Frijoles
Active Member
In my opinion, the Ten Commandments include spiritual elements, which are universal, and external elements, which are temporary or contingent.
Those universal have applied to all peoples at all times. For example, a Chinese and a Mayan always knew that murder and theft and a false testimony against someone were wrong.
Those contingent refer to certain peoples of certain times. For example, let's exmain the comandment “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”
Why this commandment refers to your neighbor's wife, but not to your neighbor's husband?
Why is the wife included in the same list with cattle and other possessions?
Well, because the commandment was craft to target a society in which the husband was the owner of the wife.
If God were to formulate the commandment nowadays, He would do it differently.
The spiritual principle, however is the same: feeling unhappy because I don't have what you have is wrong. This principle could be understood by Romans and Greeks and the Chinese.
The commandment to abstain from work on a very specific day of the week: the seventh, was not a commandment given to Hindus or Chinese or the Mayan. It was given to Israel. Yes, in remembrance of the creation, but to Israel.
The spiritual universal principle behind the commandment is this: Rest your body and your mind to dedicate time to honor your Creator.
That's why all civilizations had festivities in which normal work was suspended to honor the gods.
The contingent element of the commandment: to abstain from work from sunset to sunset in this specific day, should not be enforced to people who do not belong to the Jewish tradition.
Those universal have applied to all peoples at all times. For example, a Chinese and a Mayan always knew that murder and theft and a false testimony against someone were wrong.
Those contingent refer to certain peoples of certain times. For example, let's exmain the comandment “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”
Why this commandment refers to your neighbor's wife, but not to your neighbor's husband?
Why is the wife included in the same list with cattle and other possessions?
Well, because the commandment was craft to target a society in which the husband was the owner of the wife.
If God were to formulate the commandment nowadays, He would do it differently.
The spiritual principle, however is the same: feeling unhappy because I don't have what you have is wrong. This principle could be understood by Romans and Greeks and the Chinese.
The commandment to abstain from work on a very specific day of the week: the seventh, was not a commandment given to Hindus or Chinese or the Mayan. It was given to Israel. Yes, in remembrance of the creation, but to Israel.
The spiritual universal principle behind the commandment is this: Rest your body and your mind to dedicate time to honor your Creator.
That's why all civilizations had festivities in which normal work was suspended to honor the gods.
The contingent element of the commandment: to abstain from work from sunset to sunset in this specific day, should not be enforced to people who do not belong to the Jewish tradition.
When Christ comes He will see who truly knew Him, and those who claimed they did, and many will be surprised....
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
A day is not a way, and a way is not a day.
There are some that say this way is the right day, however.
And that is confusion.
.
I'm worried about this. A lot. I fear there are many who don't even know who Jesus is because they think he's God.
Pancho Frijoles
Active Member
Hi @Hobie and Peterlag.
Fortunately, Jesus does know his sheep.
To those who claim to “know” Jesus theologically, formally, but do not know him existentially, in the practice of love, He will say “I never knew you, evildoers”.
In his days, Jesus healed and saved those who thought He as a prophet, a rabbi, Elijah, Jeremiah, a political Messiah, or something in between. Those who are presented as worshiping him and those who are not.
What Jesus was interested in was that people believed He had been sent by God so that people could pay heed to his teachings and follow his steps.
The only place I find in the New Testament where it says we can get born again is in Romans. We either have the spirit or we don't. If we do not have it... than trying to get God to like us by being a nice person will not get us Jack. Romans 10:9 states it this way...
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
The million dollar question is can we get the spirit if we believe...
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord God, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised himself from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
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