Who of us today can rightfully live in that mental landscape of the age of the flat-earthers? Or the age of God(s) who reign high in the clouds? No-one today who knows about space, time and the universe can. So we must upgrade, we must adjust.
What would you do?
- Thread starter Riven
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ScottA
Well-Known Member
No, I understand.
The situation you are referring to is part of the timed revelations by God, "precept upon precept, line upon line, here a little there a little." The fact that things have accelerated, is a sign that we are getting closer to the end.
Do you think your agnosticism is, or could possibly be, connected with this event in your life?
A child is traumatized and asks, consciously or subconsciously, “Since God exists, why did he allow my innocent baby brother to die?”
You asked me not long ago what I would feel if I were in your shoes. If I were in your shoes when you were a child, I would have been sad, confused, angry, afraid, even guiltridden. If I couldn’t resolve those feelings, I would probably grow up feeling helpless, hopeless, explosively angry and at times dead inside.
My question would have changed, at over time, from “Since God exists ...” to “If God exists …” and, if I couldn’t arrive at a satisfying (peace inducing) answer to the modified question, it would eventually either destroy me or cause me to modify one more time - “Since God doesn’t exist, my innocent little brother is lost forever.” (I don’t think you’ve reached the last modification of thought yet.)
None of this may be what you actually feel or felt. I’m projecting myself on your life.
I’m not a psychiatrist or psychologist. I may be way off base, but I think you probably have to go back to this very traumatic and painful time in your life - when you had a childlike belief that God existed, assuming that you did - and find a satisfying answer to the questions, “Since God exists, why did he allow my innocent little brother to die? and “Is he lost forever or will I see him and reunited with him some day?”
Yeah, I think I fundamentally changed as a person after that event. I lost my love for life after that terrible night. I was only ten years old, and I had to make a choice in the moment at his funeral over whether or not I wanted to see him in the casket and have that image burned into my brain forever. I told my parents no and I refused to look until they closed the casket.
Of course. And you don't get an answer back. Eventually you start to think there's no one listening at all. Or that they don't care.
I did grow up that way. I got through middle school well enough, but the first year of high school is when depression hit me like a Mack truck. And it's been there ever since. Over 20 years of feeling this way. I'm somewhat impressed with myself for having kept going this long. Everyday is a struggle.
Not yet. I can't really bring myself to believe that he's gone forever. Something tells me he isn't, although I don't know what that something is.
People die everyday. We just don't see it most of the time. If God doesn't interfere with our lives, then my brother died because of circumstance. If he is lost forever, then there's no hope. Then I'm just existing and waiting to expire.
But if there is a chance that I'll see him again, then that's a hope that's worth living for. Living the right way.
I think you‘ll find Flew’s book persuasive. If you do, that’s going to move you from agnostic to theist - but not necessarily from agnostic to Christian.
That will be a reset for you, taking you back to those days when you didn’t get an answer to your questions and didn’t feel like you were being heard. It will be a second chance. It might also be intensely painful for you. You should lean on support from family or friends whom you love and trust.
“Since God exists, why did he allow this terrible thing to happen to my innocent little brother?”
”Why did God allow my family to go through this painful experience?”
”Why did God allow me, an innocent child, to go through this experience?”
Those questions should drive you to examine the character of God. That’s when the book of Job may become most helpful to you. Having a feel for the character of God will help you make better sense of the biblical story - from Genesis through Revelation - and give you a Christian worldview to consider.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
I always get around to asking non-Christians what their hope is.
When I first asked @Riven what his hope is, he didn’t give me the answer that he gave in post #25. The poignant answer he’s given now is a great place for him to start. Is it a hope that can be realized? What is the Bible’s answer to that? What is the answer to that hope offered by other religions’ books?
”There is a God …” is the fuel that launches the exploration rocket.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
Meanwhile, some of us have some authoritative information to share that is not just chit chat or speculation, but might actually be from our Creator, and helpful.
Might? Do you accept what other people tell you in regards to their personal beliefs? If so why so, and if not then why not.
It was the old sequel to Myst. They were these popular point and click puzzle games that were around in the 90's.
But the definition is to split or tear apart violently.
Why do I think this? You’re intelligent and intellectually honest @Riven. There is evidence for the existence of God - something which atheism denies - and when you are determined to follow the evidence wherever it leads you’re almost certainly going to wind up where Flew did on the question.
“What is the problem?“ is an important question. “What caused (or is causing) the problem?” is the question which provides information that helps us find solutions to our problems.
You’ve acknowledged the problem and identified the cause of it.
Historians of World War I, with its advancement in methods of killing in great numbers, speak about the effect that worldwide trauma had on religion. Historians of World War II, with its further advancement of methods for killing in even greater numbers, speak about the effect on religion of that worldwide trauma. Flew discusses this in his book.
Agnosticism, in general, is rooted in shocking / horrifying traumatic events.
Can you explain that comment in-circled:It was the old sequel to Myst. They were these popular point and click puzzle games that were around in the 90's.
But the definition is to split or tear apart violently.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
"Might" was not me suggesting a mere possibility, but rather that you "might" consider the great testimony of witnesses since the world began, to be credible and not mere coincidence.
As for personal beliefs, that is not the foundation of what I have been speaking of. I have been saying what I "know" to be true--as one caught up in the spirit above the earth by God and then returned with an assigned task.
”Does anyone know where the love of God goes when the waves turn the minutes to hours?”
There it is, hauntingly expressed in the lyrics of a pop song @Riven.
That’s what the 10-year-old you wrestled with, couldn’t find a satisfying answer for, and the adults were unable to help you navigate. (Consider the possibility that they were wrestling with it themselves.)
“Why did God allow this to happen to him, to my family, to me?” is essentially, “Where did the love of God go during and after this shocking event?”
I call plagiarism on your particular experience. It sounds a lot like this:
2 Corinthians 12:2
I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a man was caught up to the third heaven.
Also that's the verse the Mormon church use to validate their belief in a three heaven system:
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I keep telling you people, it's our beliefs that are destroying us. But nooo....we all have to keep believing something. Sorry to inform you believers of types, but our natural human brain does not know how to process a belief.
(It's not just religious beliefs, it's any belief)
(It's not just religious beliefs, it's any belief)
Precious friend, @Riven, I will pray for you.
"Believing in Jesus intellectually" (our best) is still falls short, but humbly "believing with all the heart"
Is God's Scriptural Method To Receive His Eternal Life - example:
I am at the airport, see a plane, and in my head say: yes, I believe that is an airplane. What do I "have To Do"
to "get to my destination"? Actually "get on board" and humbly "trust and place my life into the hands of the
pilot" to get me to my destination!
Have you humbly "believed On The LORD Jesus Christ, and Totally placed your Eternal Welfare
Into His Very Capable Hands"? I pray you will do so Today, The Day Of Salvation!:
Please Be Very Richly Encouraged, Edified, And Comforted In:
God's Grace, Peace, Mercy and Love
+
God's GRACE Word for our infirmities
+
If still Needed:
Overcoming Depression Biblically And Naturally (Part I)
+
Overcoming Depression Biblically And Naturally (Part II)
Amen.
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