What Wrath Are Christ's Servants Not Appointed To?

[JLB]

Revelation 6:15-17


15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?"

 

[avoice]

an insult is not just an insult if it is not true. an insult is something that calls people things that they take as an offense. i can bet the jewish leaders of that time were insulted. now i agree that the statement Jesus made was true but why is what he said any different then if i called veteran for example a hypocrite because of some of the things he says could be considered hypocritical. but when does telling someone that become right or wrong?

makes you wonder

God bless you all

You have to go into a little deeper into things to fully understand this. Ill try to give you the short version.

These Pharisees were not the Levite priesthood God had appointed to be keepers of the Temple.
The last of any true priestly tribe had long before left, taken captive. The few who remained were kicked out of the Temple by the evil King Herrod and replaced by these Pharisees.
In fact a good number of them were actually immigrants from Edom (Esau's people whom God hated).
They had converted to Judaism,when they took over the land of Judah after the Jews were taken captive.

Now, here are these fake Priest's God never appointed over his people who are breaking gods laws with schemes, telling Jesus he is a law breaker and mocking him.(thats being a hypocrite)
It was these Pharisee Priests that instigated Jesus crucifiction they hated him.
Even when it was found Jesus had broke no Roman law these priest's persisted.
Jesus was interfering with money making scams at the temple he was gaining followers.

These Pharisee found that very threatening. It was these very priest's that would incite the populace to kill Jesus ... These priests were in short doing the devils work . They knew it and Jesus knew it.
False teachers/preacher are the same today ..they want their message heard above that of Gods.

 

[veteran]

No I dont see that
We are probably not going to agree on this because we see it differently.
Christ comes once delivers his wrath once. There is Satan wrath upon men and God wrath upon Satan.

Might want to look at the duties of God's "two witnesses" again per Rev.11. Their duties involves offices like Elijah and Moses, tormenting the wicked with plagues, drought, turn waters to blood, etc. It's why when the nations see them killed, they begin to rejoice and send each other presents, because of how they tormented them...

Rev 11:10
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
(KJV)

Thus there is going to be 'wrath' upon the wicked by God's "two witnesses" during the tribulation time, similar to how it was in Egypt with Moses, which is what the first 6 Vials of Rev.16 are about. God even used His leading the children of Israel out of Egypt as a comparison to His gathering of the saints at the end of this world (Jeremiah 23).

But if you don't want to know about that, it's up to you.

 

[avoice]

Might want to look at the duties of God's "two witnesses" again per Rev.11. Their duties involves offices like Elijah and Moses, tormenting the wicked with plagues, drought, turn waters to blood, etc. It's why when the nations see them killed, they begin to rejoice and send each other presents, because of how they tormented them...

Rev 11:10
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
(KJV)

Thus there is going to be 'wrath' upon the wicked by God's "two witnesses" during the tribulation time, similar to how it was in Egypt with Moses, which is what the first 6 Vials of Rev.16 are about. God even used His leading the children of Israel out of Egypt as a comparison to His gathering of the saints at the end of this world (Jeremiah 23).

But if you don't want to know about that, it's up to you.

I know about it ..but that wasnt your question was it. "What Wrath Are Christ's Servants Not Appointed To"

 

[veteran]

I know about it ..but that wasnt your question was it. "What Wrath Are Christ's Servants Not Appointed To"

In my original post I was only covering the 'wrath' idea per Paul in 1 Thess.5, a Scripture which the pre-trib rapturists often misunderstand. Paul only covered the 'wrath' on the "day of the Lord" when our Lord Jesus returns. It's a wrath specific ONLY to the last 7th Vial.

But in your post #16 above, you included all the Vials as the 'wrath' Paul was talking about, yet that's not true. It's why I recommended you to look at the Rev.16:15 verse again, and then Rev.11 about God's "two witnesses", what they are given power to do on earth upon the wicked during the tribulation time.


In other words, the day of Christ's coming and our gathering to Him is not until... that last 7th Vial. That's why He said the following on the 6th Vial...


Rev 16:15-17
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And He gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
(KJV)

I don't know where you get the idea that the resurrection had already happened prior to any of the Vials, but the reason why our Lord said He comes "as a thief" within that 6th Vial period there, is because His coming and our gathering on is that 7th last Vial, for the Armageddon event is a "day of the Lord" event.

You do recall Paul and Peter both said our Lord Jesus comes "as a thief in the night" on the "day of the Lord", right?

Moreover, that "blessed is he that watcheth" is an idea our Lord Jesus specifically covered about the time of His coming and our gathering to Him, so it cannot be about some second resurrection idea at all.

 

[mark s]

Revelation 16:1 NASB
(1) Then I heard a loud voice from the temple, saying to the seven angels, "Go and pour out on the earth the seven bowls of the wrath of God."

Not just the 7th bowl is called wrath.

 

[avoice]

Revelation 16:1 NASB
(1) Then I heard a loud voice from the temple, saying to the seven angels, "Go and pour out on the earth the seven bowls of the wrath of God."

Not just the 7th bowl is called wrath.

Exactly Mark you are right.

)

I don't know where you get the idea that the resurrection had already happened prior to any of the Vials, but the reason why our Lord said He comes "as a thief" within that 6th Vial period there, is because His coming and our gathering on is that 7th last Vial, for the Armageddon event is a "day of the Lord" event.

And I know exactly where and from whom you get your ideas and I believe its wrong.
I have already bought that lie for years in fact once taught it myself know it intimately.
But alas wisdom prevailed and i stopped trying to make scripture fit my beliefs.And just let God do the teaching. While Id do the listening and learning. So Not interested in the 6th seal,trump,vial baloney.
you go ahead keep trying to make it work for ya if you like . But Im not buying the pudding ..

Why dont you try comparing
Acts 1:11 and Rev. 19:11 and see if they are the same ... Or are we talking two different things here ?

 

[veteran]

And I know exactly where and from whom you get your ideas and I believe its wrong.

No man ever revealed that to me about Christ's Rev.16:15 warning on the 6th Vial in prep for the 7th Vial event. So I think you're jumping ahead of yourself in assuming too much about me, while including one of those "I used to believe that myself" type of irrelevant statements to try and give weight to your words.

I have already bought that lie for years in fact once taught it myself know it intimately.
But alas wisdom prevailed and i stopped trying to make scripture fit my beliefs.

That above is another irrlevant statement, simply because the Scripture is written exactly... how I explained it. So you would have to do a lot more than just making those kinds of statements to disprove what I covered about it.

And just let God do the teaching. While Id do the listening and learning. So Not interested in the 6th seal,trump,vial baloney.
you go ahead keep trying to make it work for ya if you like . But Im not buying the pudding ..

That's just more rambling based on your opinion without actually trying to disprove what I covered.

Why dont you try comparing
Acts 1:11 and Rev. 19:11 and see if they are the same ... Or are we talking two different things here ?

Now... we might be getting somewhere. Let's check those Scriptures out to see...

Acts 1:10-12
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, "Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, Which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen Him go into heaven."
12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.
(KJV)

That was about our Lord Jesus ascending into Heaven from the Mount of Olives while His Apostles were standing there watching it. That Scripture aligns with the Zech.14 event of Christ's second coming with how He returns like those angels there said.

That's Acts 1:11 Scripture does nothing to disprove what I said about the day of His coming on "the day of the Lord" aligned with the 7th Vial Armageddon event. Even Zech.14 declares Christ's return to the Mount of Olives on that "day of the Lord" event, which includes the Armageddon battle against His enemies on that same day.


Now the Rev.19:11 verse, let's see...

Rev 19:11-15
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and He That sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns; and He had a name written, that no man knew, but He Himself.
13 And He was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and His name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed Him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of His mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it He should smite the nations: and He shall rule them with a rod of iron: and He treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
(KJV)

That's about the Armageddon event of Rev.16 that occurs ON THE 7TH VIAL. It's Christ coming upon a white horse with the saints He brings with Him (per 1 Thess.4).


Now according to Apostle Paul in 1 Cor.15, he reveals the saints still alive on earth per 1 Thess.4:14-17 will remain on earth until the day of Christ's coming, and they will be 'changed' "at the twinkling of an eye", on... "the last trump", when that "trumpet" sounds, then gathered with the 'asleep' saints He brings with Him.

1 Cor 15:51-52
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
(KJV)

The "dead" being raised incorruptible is about the saints that are 'asleep' in Jesus, and are those He brings with Him when He comes. But the saints still alive on earth are not dead, have no need to be raised from the dead, and instead are "changed" to be joined with them at His coming.

None of that disproves what I covered from Rev.16, but only affirms what is to occur on the 7th trumpet AND 7th Vial.


Rev 16:15-17
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And He gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, "It is done."
(KJV)

That "as a thief" and "Blessed is he that watcheth" are symbolic markers for the "day of the Lord" when our Lord Jesus returns to gather His saints (per 1 Thess.5). For Christ to be saying that to those who fall away, it would NOT include an admonition of "Blessed is he that watcheth" if it was meant for those already deceived as you say.

Someone has bewitched you away from that simple relation and meaning per the Scripture.

 

[avoice]

Someone has bewitched you away from that simple relation and meaning per the Scripture.

LOL your so funny yes if we dont all get our scripture from you Im sure we are all bewitched in your mind.

 

[veteran]

LOL your so funny yes if we dont all get our scripture from you Im sure we are all bewitched in your mind.

Leaving the Scripture to instead adopt a tradition of men does usually involve some type of 'bewitching'.

 

[tgwprophet]

Veteran, I believe you were too harsh on Mark S. Sometimes, I could say but, often is how I should probably start this next sentence.

Often our understandings go far beyond our ability to convey in written form, or even in oral form, so we attempt to do this by the merging of scripture. This often causes problems as it is considered taken out of text, but is it really or just inadequate conveyance? is it possible Mark S was trying just such a thing without any such evil intent? i believe so. but this does not exclude him from correction, just assault. Below are some examples...

I spent a lot of time considering how one could literally walk on water. Jesus was not the only one to do this. I pondered how, if the churches have become closer to understanding things of God and if there were any righteous churches out there... why have none of them been able to teach one to walk on water. I considered this to the verge of being able to understand it that iI may be able to do it. But, at the same time I realized that even if I understood it, that it would even be harder to convey it to someone else that they could understand it, to the point of being able to do it. I got oh so close... My first step was to take the first step, meaning to try it... then to practice it, again and again while trying to understand it better at each attempt. Alas, before i ever got to the point of taking that first step on actual water, I was given a new directive. My point here is I was getting closer, but still unable to put my own thoughts into understandable organization AND while trying this was able to understand how limited our abilities are in conveying our wisdom or understanding to others. Reach into this understanding and then you will be better at comprehension in whether or not one is actually trying to stray away form God's wisdom or trying to embrace it for deeper understanding. (This does not mean their understanding cannot be wrong.) This just asks: Be a little more tolerant of those trying to grow and share what they feel - though they may not be able to express it clearly.

I considered the "healing ministries" including those on TV, and why is it none of them healed "superman" - Christopher Reeves... Certainly, if I was a "healer" I would have went to him, that through me, Jesus would heal him. Imagine the wave of people coming to the churches to receive Jesus. Notice the wheelchairs at these revivals... they are not personalized nor of many diverse brands and types... what a scam! You wish to attack... here is a good place to start. Now, IF I was a healer AND understood the wisdom here AND yet was afraid that if I tried to heal superman, that I would fail... would I have tried anyway - or fled? I would have to have tried anyway! For even if i failed... with the world watching... it could not have been said of me that I was a fake, merely that I was lacking. For a fake would not have put himself on trail. Not one televangelist put himself to task. Will the 2 witnesses confront these televangelists for their evil wicked acts? I can answer that one - it is Yes!

 

[veteran]

Veteran, I believe you were too harsh on Mark S. Sometimes, I could say but, often is how I should probably start this next sentence.

Nope, don't think so, for he did exactly one of the very things I covered in my starting post regarding traditions pushed from the 1 Thess.5 chapter. He jumped IMMEDIATELY to the 1 Thess.5:9 verse WITHOUT attempting to address ANY of the previous 8 verses of that chapter!

Those who do that kind of thing reveal they don't really care what God's Word says, but what men say instead. Keeping to the flow starting at 1 Thess.5:1 and going all the way through is God's Way. Jumping only to a verse to immediately take it out of... the chapter's context is of the doctrines of men. That is a particular chapter where the flow of the whole chapter must be recognized.