What's the scoop?

[amadeus]

Stop being an unbeliever and start being a believer!

True repentance involves change. What we cannot change that needs to be changed God is able. If we do not really want to be changed, we are blocking God. This is free will, but in exercising our free will we will often be working against God's will. If we are unable to work right, we can, and indeed should, ask God to help us get on His side:

Mt 7:7	Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
Mt 7:8	For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
Mt 7:9	Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?

Ro 8:31

What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

 

[Nancy]

The other guy was saying once we get saved and are covered by Jesus that after that God cannot see out sin

So apparently is doesn't matter since God can't see out sin anymore!

I haven't heard it explained like that, but it fits with what the pastor told me which was our lifestyle can never make is unsaved.

Hello Dan, and welcome here.
If our lifestyle is sinful and against what is taught in the bible, you are living "in" sin. If there is not a heart change, desiring to do God's will and losing the desire to do the fleshly, worldly things more and more. God forgets our sin: Hebrews 10:17, referring to Jeremiah 31, says, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

So God says,

But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters, and all liars, — their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death. (21:8)

And again,

Nothing impure will ever it (the new Jerusalem), nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life. (21:27)

And yet again,

Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters,and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. (22:15)

If you do not see partaking of the bud as a sin, it is not a sin to you, but if you do it around someone who has issues with it, then refrain. You do not want to make your brother stumble.
BTW-our lifestyle surely does have to be changed! If you are born of the Spirit and not just the baptism of repentance, water. You will not change overnight, I know I didn't! But it's a heart matter:

“For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also,” (Matthew 6:21)

The only thing God hates is sin, we learn what sin is through studying the word...also the 10 commandments are there to SHOW us what sin is...but we do NOT look to the 10 to save us as, we are under God's grace now.
Gonna tag a friend here @1stCenturyLady
There is a lot to learn. One day at a time, and ALWAYS ask God, through Christ, to send you His Spirit every day...just give it a sincere try, and here is a verse I like, as God is not a kill

"You make known to me the path of life; in your presence there is fullness of joy; at your right hand are pleasures forevermore." Psalm 16:11

 

[Mink57]

Are you trying to get away with doing the extreme minimum to be saved?

Salvation involves a process...an ongoing process called Sanctification.
It's not an instantaneous thing even though it's often stated as such.

These questions you keep asking ad nauseum of everyone seem like you don't want to really know Christ and are more interested in if your shallow theology is right or not. And I don't have those answers for you. But remember Judas? He knew who Jesus was...even performed miracles himself in Jesus's name. Seen with his own eyes Jesus walking on water and saw Lazarus raised from the dead.

But see, Judas was in it for himself....he wanted the Salvation but at core was interested in the salvation and power of being God's friend...not so much about just being Jesus's disciple but instead only the perks that came with it. (Was Judas Saved?)

I don't know if you ever had Salvation so I don't know if you can lose it. I dont know that you aren't saved either. You are being rather cagey and relying upon anonymity rather heavily but still not being transparent. I don't know why.
I believe the parable of the soils. What sort of soil are you? What sort of soil do you want to be?

God is a person...emotions, feelings, and all that. He isn't a computer that has lines of code with "if x then y" type statements for His programming. Meaning that you "get" what you "give" but not entirely...a relationship with God is not exactly transactional either. It's not that cold and dispassionate. Even though your questions make it seem as such in your view.

Good post, John.

I've been thinking about this thread since it was first posted. In a nutshell, it seems that the OP went to a Baptist church, said the "sinner's prayer" with a pastor, and the pastor then told him, that he was 'saved', and to not listen to anyone else who would say otherwise. I have a few concerns with that.

First of all, while there's more than one version of the sinner's prayer, they all seem to include the same elements:

1. Acknowledgement of sin

2. Repentance of sin

3. Acknowledgment of Jesus Christ as Savior

4. Admit that nothing can pay for sins except the blood of Jesus

5. Ask for the Holy Spirit to come indwell

6. Praise God for salvation

7. Thank God for salvation

Apparently, once someone says the prayer, they are eternally 'saved'...according to the OP's pastor (among some others). Plus, among others, it seems to be that once this prayer is said, it's a one-and-done deal. But as you said, it's a process. And I think the OP's pastor did him a disservice by saying otherwise.

Take point number 1. for example. The prayer is something like, "I acknowledge that I'm a sinner." But does the person praying the prayer know in what ways they're a sinner? Seems like they may think -- like many of us -- "Yeah, I've probably 'sinned' before." (said with a shrug). As long as they haven't murdered anyone, they're not "that" bad...But as in the bible, one may find that GOD'S ways aren't OUR ways. And what WE may think isn't a 'big deal', is a VERY big deal to God.

So, number 2, "repentance of sin" doesn't seem to be that big of a deal. Yeah, I repent (shrug). Do we even know what we're repenting from? How can we know what we're repenting from unless we read the words of Christ? Do we love God? How do we show Him our love? Do we love others? How do we show them that love? Do I curse the guy who cut in front of me in traffic? Is THAT love? Or should I repent from my impatience...and have more patience with people? Have I put other material things before God, such as sex and/or money? Hey God, I love ya, but I love sex, too. And since you, God, created all these 'feelings' associated with sex well...ya can't blame me for wanting it...right? Even outside of marriage...right?

The OP's pastor told the OP that he didn't have do anything different. But I think the pastor is wrong.

Yes, Jesus died for our sins. But that's not ALL he did. He gave us rules for right living. Believing in him isn't only about believing that he died for us. It's about believing...and practicing everything he taught before he died.

 

[Debp]

@Dan Clarkston Here is a study I wrote at another site about Soteriology (salvation).

Basic salvation doctrines are propitiation (God's wrath was satisfied by Christ's sacrifice), justification (just as if we have never sinned), sanctification (ongoing) and imputed righteousness (Christ takes our sins and gives us His righteousness....so in God's sight, we are holy/righteous.)

Sanctification is the ongoing process in our lives as the Holy Spirit deals with us in our hearts...to conform us to the image of Christ. But our legal standing before God is having the imputed righteousness of Christ.

You need to understand about walking in the Spirit so you won't walk in the flesh.

Do you realize once we accept Christ as our personal Savior that the Holy Spirit comes to reside in us to help us live godly?

"I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh." Galatians 5:16.

We don't have to walk in sin, although we might sometimes stumble. In that case, remember 1 John 1:9. "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

Accept your cleansing and move on in your walk with the Lord.

 

[Debp]

@Dan Clarkston
Some helps in learning to walk in the Spirit...

Colossians 3:12-17
12Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies, kindness, humility, meekness, longsuffering; 13bearing with one another, and forgiving one another, if anyone has a complaint against another; even as Christ forgave you, so you also must do. 14But above all these things put on love, which is the bond of perfection. 15And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful. 16Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. 17And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him.

 

[JohnDB]

Good post, John.

I've been thinking about this thread since it was first posted. In a nutshell, it seems that the OP went to a Baptist church, said the "sinner's prayer" with a pastor, and the pastor then told him, that he was 'saved', and to not listen to anyone else who would say otherwise. I have a few concerns with that.

First of all, while there's more than one version of the sinner's prayer, they all seem to include the same elements:

1. Acknowledgement of sin

2. Repentance of sin

3. Acknowledgment of Jesus Christ as Savior

4. Admit that nothing can pay for sins except the blood of Jesus

5. Ask for the Holy Spirit to come indwell

6. Praise God for salvation

7. Thank God for salvation

Apparently, once someone says the prayer, they are eternally 'saved'...according to the OP's pastor (among some others). Plus, among others, it seems to be that once this prayer is said, it's a one-and-done deal. But as you said, it's a process. And I think the OP's pastor did him a disservice by saying otherwise.

Take point number 1. for example. The prayer is something like, "I acknowledge that I'm a sinner." But does the person praying the prayer know in what ways they're a sinner? Seems like they may think -- like many of us -- "Yeah, I've probably 'sinned' before." (said with a shrug). As long as they haven't murdered anyone, they're not "that" bad...But as in the bible, one may find that GOD'S ways aren't OUR ways. And what WE may think isn't a 'big deal', is a VERY big deal to God.

So, number 2, "repentance of sin" doesn't seem to be that big of a deal. Yeah, I repent (shrug). Do we even know what we're repenting from? How can we know what we're repenting from unless we read the words of Christ? Do we love God? How do we show Him our love? Do we love others? How do we show them that love? Do I curse the guy who cut in front of me in traffic? Is THAT love? Or should I repent from my impatience...and have more patience with people? Have I put other material things before God, such as sex and/or money? Hey God, I love ya, but I love sex, too. And since you, God, created all these 'feelings' associated with sex well...ya can't blame me for wanting it...right? Even outside of marriage...right?

The OP's pastor told the OP that he didn't have do anything different. But I think the pastor is wrong.

Yes, Jesus died for our sins. But that's not ALL he did. He gave us rules for right living. Believing in him isn't only about believing that he died for us. It's about believing...and practicing everything he taught before he died.

I believe that it's an issue of repentance...

Somehow people don't understand the concept....it's not simply feeling sorry about what you have done...that's simple sorrow/regret.

Repentance is a complete 180⁰ turn around of behavior and attitudes about living a Godly life. It's a complete change of actions and lifestyle focus. Everything you do is now focused through the lense of what God desires for each of us.
Words are cheap....actions and especially attitudes are very expensive...which is what God wants.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

These last few posts aren't very eternal security like.

Those peeps are going to be mad at all of ya!

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Anywho, I guess I'm done asking questions.

Some of you say we cannot lose our salvation and others say we can.

I suppose I need to do some reading on my own and depending on what I learn I guess some will hate me, but others will like me since I agree with them!

Thanks for all the replies!

 

[Dan Clarkston]

I've been doing a lot of studying since my last visit and I'm pretty sure the once saved always saved thing is a scam.

There are too many things I'm seeing in the bible that show it's not true.

I'll come back eventually and post some of the stuff I have been learning

 

[O'Darby]

I've been doing a lot of studying since my last visit and I'm pretty sure the once saved always saved thing is a scam.

There are too many things I'm seeing in the bible that show it's not true.

I'll come back eventually and post some of the stuff I have been learning

I don't happen to agree with OSAS, but it is scarcely a scam. It's one way of reading the NT - incorrect IMO, but so be it. The larger issue you don't seem to grasp is that whether OSAS is true or not true should make ZERO difference to your Christian walk. If you view your conversion as a Get Out of Jail Free card, even an OSAS ministry would say you probably weren't saved in the first place.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

No, I'm pretty sure the bible does not actually teach osas so people are being scammed by a view point that is not actually taught in the bible. If you really disagreed with osas you would not be saying it's a legitimate view point.

I've found out that some that believe osas actually believe that it doesn't matter if christians live in sin or not. They say we will have problems in this life if we do but living in sin does not effect their salvation and they still go to heaven. It's definitely a scam.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

This one from 2 Peter proves osas is not true

2 Peter 2:20 - For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

You can't explain that away

 

[Nancy]

This one from 2 Peter proves osas is not true

2 Peter 2:20 - For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

You can't explain that away

And another that is very clear:

Romans 11:22-24
"22Take notice, therefore, of the kindness and severity of God: severity to those who fell, but kindness to you, if you continue in His kindness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24For if you were cut from a wild olive tree, and contrary to nature were grafted into one that is cultivated, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!…"

 

[Dan Clarkston]

So you are saying osas is not true?

 

[GRACE ambassador]

I've been doing a lot of studying since my last visit and I'm pretty sure the once saved always saved thing is a scam.

Precious friend, please be Very prayerful and careful about God's Precious Blood and Sound Doctrines.
Because of His Precious Blood, we have God's Simple Will, and then He Also Gives us His
Sound Doctrine of His Eternal Salvation [ some call 'osas' ]:

God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST
+ Update
+
God's Eternal Assurance
+
God's Eternal Life Insurance

Please Be Very Richly Encouraged and Edified in The
Lord Jesus Christ, and In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided!

Amen.

 

[Nancy]

So you are saying osas is not true?

That is how I read that verse, among others. Salvation-wise, it technically has no bearing but, to those young in the faith, and depending on only those who promote it then...I can see some lax faith being built...

This is only my own take after reading all of the different scriptures and views on it.
Pray, trust God and wait for His answer.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Salvation-wise, it technically has no bearing

In other words we cannot go by what God's Word says?

2 Peter 2:20 - For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

be Very prayerful and careful about God's Precious Blood and Sound Doctrines.

I have been and have learned that due to warnings God has placed in His Word, osas is a scam.

This is why some many who say they are Christians live just like people who are not Christians.

I heard one preacher say that is Christianity became illegal most Christians could not be convicted due to a lack of evidence.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

to those young in the faith, and depending on only those who promote it then...I can see some lax faith being built

Precious friend, actually, when Grace is taught properly, according To Scriptures...:

"For The Grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,​

Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live​

soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world" (Titus 2:11-12 AV)​

...God's Eternal Salvation is not a 'license to sin' [lax faith], but is actually a "license to serve
God out of love," instead of fear of 'losing' His Eternal Salvation He Gives Freely By His
Amazing Grace:

"Being Justified Freely By His Grace through The [ Full ] Redemption that is ​

In Christ Jesus" (Romans 3:24 AV)​

Amen.

 

[Duck Muscles]

Not to give my whole life story here but I'm a young person (20s) that got saved at a Baptist church a few years back by going down front at a church service when the pastor invited those to come forward that want to get saved. I repeated the sinners prayer and the pastor said I was saved no matter what anybody says because God said I was saved!

I thought that was all these was to it since the pastor said all I had to do is believe and that salvation in Jesus was by faith alone and my lifestyle cannot change the fact that I'm saved. This all happened about 3 years ago.

So, there's this guy at work that is telling me he doesn't think I'm saved. I found out he was a Christian and we talk sometimes when we are on break. We get 3 breaks during the day for about 20 minutes so we're been talking about religious stuff.

His big problem seems to be my hot girlfriend spending the night at my house sometimes and yes we have sex and we also smoke weed sometimes which shouldn't be a big deal since Jesus got drunk on wine with those people I heard about. It's not like I'm a criminal and I don't treat others bad or anything.

This guy at work is telling me in order to be saved I'm supposed to quit doing what he says is sinful behavior but it's not what the pastor told me when I got saved. Now this guy is sending me all these bible verses by email and some of these are kinda scary and sounds like I might not be saved anymore. I can share some of the stuff he sent if anybody is wanting to comment about the claims he is making

I'm wanting to kinda get to the bottom of all this and see what it's all about. My coworker is telling me there is more to getting saved than praying a sinners prayer and believing God raised Jesus from the dead.

I thought it may be best to hear from other Christians rather than talking to the pastor since he's always busy anyway. His church is really big so you have to make like an appointment to get in to talk to him which takes a while.

First, I think it should be said that there is no sinners prayer in all of scripture.
Salvation through Christ isn't like a fraternity with a secret handshake and an oath.

If you truly feel at one with God and at peace, that is your bond with our Savior.

Our lives don't change in the blink of an eye. We are on a journey to become a new creation in Christ.

Jesus was a newborn first. The word, God, made flesh. He grew up just as we all do. And as a man , a divine sinless one, came into his ministry for which he was born.

We too are like that. We are born again into the comfort and shroud of divine grace and Godly security.

We learn to let go of our old way of thinking and gradually grow and trust we can be led by the spirit, rather than lead our own lives by the carnal hunger for material things and satisfaction.

In the Old way of the Jews in the Bible, if two people had sex they were wed. If they lived together they were too.

In the Old testament you'll find there were procedures to be followed if a man had sexual relations with a woman.

You living with your girlfriend is like unto those relationships.
Personally, I would not marry someone until we did live together for a time.

I think your coworker is out of line. They have no right to question your union with God. Their behavior is that of self righteous indignation, and that is sin.

You are under no obligation to meet their expectations as to what in their judgement makes you Christian.

They instead need to work out their own journey, and stop acting as your judge by their standards.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

I think your coworker is out of line. They have no right to question your union with God. Their behavior is that of self righteous indignation, and that is sin.

So you think Christians can live in sin and still be saved in spite of warnings in the bible that says they cannot?

Do you based what you believe on the whole bible, or just the parts that make you feels good?