What's the scoop?

[Dan Clarkston]

Not to give my whole life story here but I'm a young person (20s) that got saved at a Baptist church a few years back by going down front at a church service when the pastor invited those to come forward that want to get saved. I repeated the sinners prayer and the pastor said I was saved no matter what anybody says because God said I was saved!

I thought that was all these was to it since the pastor said all I had to do is believe and that salvation in Jesus was by faith alone and my lifestyle cannot change the fact that I'm saved. This all happened about 3 years ago.

So, there's this guy at work that is telling me he doesn't think I'm saved. I found out he was a Christian and we talk sometimes when we are on break. We get 3 breaks during the day for about 20 minutes so we're been talking about religious stuff.

His big problem seems to be my hot girlfriend spending the night at my house sometimes and yes we have sex and we also smoke weed sometimes which shouldn't be a big deal since Jesus got drunk on wine with those people I heard about. It's not like I'm a criminal and I don't treat others bad or anything.

This guy at work is telling me in order to be saved I'm supposed to quit doing what he says is sinful behavior but it's not what the pastor told me when I got saved. Now this guy is sending me all these bible verses by email and some of these are kinda scary and sounds like I might not be saved anymore. I can share some of the stuff he sent if anybody is wanting to comment about the claims he is making

I'm wanting to kinda get to the bottom of all this and see what it's all about. My coworker is telling me there is more to getting saved than praying a sinners prayer and believing God raised Jesus from the dead.

I thought it may be best to hear from other Christians rather than talking to the pastor since he's always busy anyway. His church is really big so you have to make like an appointment to get in to talk to him which takes a while.

 

[Pearl]

First we get saved - which you did if the prayer said was of your own free will and sincere.

Then you learn how to live as a Christian. This learning is easier if you have a mentor to disciple you and point you in the right direction away from the ways of the world.

Now what you have told us about your circumstances doesn't mean you are not saved if you said the sinners prayer with sincere repentance in your heart, but it does mean you are following the ways of the world and not living a righteous life.

How you work that out is perhaps something you should pray about.

 

[Mink57]

Not to give my whole life story here but I'm a young person (20s) that got saved at a Baptist church a few years back by going down front at a church service when the pastor invited those to come forward that want to get saved. I repeated the sinners prayer and the pastor said I was saved no matter what anybody says because God said I was saved!

I thought that was all these was to it since the pastor said all I had to do is believe and that salvation in Jesus was by faith alone and my lifestyle cannot change the fact that I'm saved. This all happened about 3 years ago.

Why did you decide to "get saved" in the first place?

So, there's this guy at work that is telling me he doesn't think I'm saved. I found out he was a Christian and we talk sometimes when we are on break. We get 3 breaks during the day for about 20 minutes so we're been talking about religious stuff.

His big problem seems to be my hot girlfriend spending the night at my house sometimes and yes we have sex and we also smoke weed sometimes which shouldn't be a big deal since Jesus got drunk on wine with those people I heard about. It's not like I'm a criminal and I don't treat others bad or anything.

Uhh...not quite. Nothing in the bible says that Jesus "got drunk on wine." It says he drank wine, but there's a BIG difference between having a few glasses of wine to habitually getting drunk on it.

This guy at work is telling me in order to be saved I'm supposed to quit doing what he says is sinful behavior but it's not what the pastor told me when I got saved. Now this guy is sending me all these bible verses by email and some of these are kinda scary and sounds like I might not be saved anymore. I can share some of the stuff he sent if anybody is wanting to comment about the claims he is making

I'm wanting to kinda get to the bottom of all this and see what it's all about. My coworker is telling me there is more to getting saved than praying a sinners prayer and believing God raised Jesus from the dead.

I thought it may be best to hear from other Christians rather than talking to the pastor since he's always busy anyway. His church is really big so you have to make like an appointment to get in to talk to him which takes a while.

Have you tried reading the bible? It almost sounds like you made this decision on the spur-of-the-moment, not really understanding what "being saved" means.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Now what you have told us about your circumstances doesn't mean you are not saved if you said the sinners prayer

That's what I have been told along with whatever lifestyle we choose, it can never cause us to not be saved.

there's a BIG difference between having a few glasses of wine to habitually getting drink on it.

If somebody has a few glassed of wine, they are buzzed which is getting drunk.

I don't see where smoking a little weed occasionally is any different from Jesus having a few glasses of wine? And where does the bible say he had a few glasses of wine anyway?

This might be a good thing to show my coworker because he says christians don't drink alcohol at all or smoke any weed ever.

Have you tried reading the bible? It almost sounds like you made this decision on the spur-of-the-moment, not really understanding what "being saved" means.

I've read most of the new testament, but none the less the pastor told me once somebody gets saved they cn never be unsaved, so is this true or no?

 

[RedFan]

I've read most of the new testament, but none the less the pastor told me once somebody gets saved they cn never be unsaved, so is this true or no?

Salvation is a process, not a one-shot-deal accomplished by a simple prayer-- so once the process is successfully completed, then yes, BY DEFINITION once you are saved (i.e., have completed the process of salvation) you cannot be unsaved. But while your salvation is still being worked out, the end is still uncertain.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

OH, I see so eternal security is not true then?

The pastor said it was true and to not let anybody talk me in to believing it's not true.

He said salvation is a free gift of God that one gets immediately when they believe God raised Jesus from their dead and believe in their heart and confess Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

You don't think this is true? If not, what bible passages shows this to not be true?

 

[RedFan]

OH, I see so eternal security is not true then?

The pastor said it was true and to not let anybody talk me in to believing it's not true.

He said salvation is a free gift of God that one gets immediately when they believe God raised Jesus from their dead and believe in their heart and confess Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

You don't think this is true? If not, what bible passages shows this to not be true?

Here are the tenets I think your "Once Saved Always Saved" pastor is telling you, and what the problem is with them. Tell me if it sounds familiar:

#1: By the grace of God, sinners are saved through faith (or trust) in Jesus Christ. Sinners not thusly saved are all going to hell. All of them. There is no other ticket of passage through the Pearly Gates because there is no other means for forgiveness of sin―and unforgiven sin leads to eternal punishment.

#2: Faith in Christ, at least insofar as salvation is concerned, is a one-shot deal, not a lifelong process of working out one’s salvation with fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12). Here’s the protocol: You make a heart-felt decision to “accept” Christ as your Lord and Savior at a particular moment in time, promising to surrender your will to His (as discerned through the Bible and through prayer, and maybe if you’re lucky through your pastor), and at all subsequent moments you are still saved. Once you have that Salvific Moment of Faith, salvation is guaranteed. (Let me say this again, because it is absolutely the OSAS mantra: salvation is GUARANTEED.)

#3: You can, of course, still fall into sin after your Salvific Moment of Faith. But if you do, forgiveness is freely available; you simply repent, confess your sins (1 John 1:19) and you’ll be pardoned. (Come to think of it, don’t repent and you’ll still be pardoned, at least in respect of any punishment that would entail loss of salvation; see Tenet #2.)

#4: Even though forgiveness is freely available, your Salvific Moment of Faith is not a license to sin, and there will be consequences if you do. But if salvation is all you care about, it may as well be a license to sin, because it has the EXACT SAME EFFECT as a license (see Tenet #3.) Your subsequent sins WILL NOT void your ticket. Paul prayed that your “whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ” (1 Thess. 5:23), but if you end up being blameworthy, don’t worry; maybe you’ll get a slight scolding from the Lord as he waives you on through the Pearly Gates, but that’s about it.

#5: Paul’s admonition in 1 Cor. 6:9-10 to the Christian community in Corinth that sexual immorality, idolatry, adultery, homosexuality, thievery, etc. will keep one from inheriting the kingdom doesn’t apply to born-again Christians. None of those things will keep Christians from their divine inheritance, for the simple reason that NOTHING can ever do that after their Salvific Moment of Faith (see Tenet #2).

#6: Jesus’ admonition in Matt. 24:13 that “he who endures to the end will be saved” was intended just for his disciples. As for everybody else, upon being “born again” he who doesn’t endure to the end will also be saved. Luke 8:13 notwithstanding, Rom. 11:22 notwithstanding, 1 Thess. 3:5 notwithstanding, 1 Tim. 4:1 notwithstanding, 2 Pet. 2:20–21 notwithstanding, Heb. 3:14 notwithstanding, Heb. 10:26–29 notwithstanding, 2 John 1:8-9 notwithstanding, you need not be steadfast for a lifetime after your Salvific Moment of Faith. Once you’re “born again,” you can’t “die” again. John 3:3’s necessary precondition to salvation also a sufficient one.

This last tenet is the OSAS mindset in a nutshell. They read John 1:12’s “as many as received him, to them he gave the power (or the right or the authority) to be sons of God” as though it said “as many as received him, he made into automatic sons of God.” Compare Origen’s observation that receiving “authority to become the children of God” differs from “becoming children.” And Chrysostom: “Why did he say, not ‘made them children of God,’ but ‘gave them authority to become children of God’? Because he was shewing us that we need all diligence to preserve, unstained and untainted-throughout our whole lives - the image of sonship by adoption stamped upon us in our baptism. And at the same time he made it clear that no one will be able to take from us this authority unless we first deprive our own selves of it.”

Mistranslations on the printed page also fuel their fire. 1 Cor. 1:18 and 2 Cor. 2:15 both use the word σῳζομένοις, which is a present participle, properly translated as “being saved.” The KJV translates it as “are saved.” (Maybe that’s why the OSAS crowd are so enamored of the KJV!)

OSAS denizens readily agree that on becoming Christians their “names are in the book of life” (Phil. 3:13). If you suggest to them that their names can still be blotted out of that book by sin, i.e., “Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book” (Ex. 32:33), and that “whosoever was not found in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire” (Rev. 20:15), they will tell you that their names have been written in the book of life with indelible ink.

Next comes the rationalization. Point out someone who has made that heart-felt decision to “accept” Christ (see tenet #2) but who is nevertheless a habitual sinner, and the OSAS crowd will reply that the sinner’s original acceptance wasn’t really genuine, as demonstrated by the subsequent behavior belying any decision to live a life in imitation of Christ. This kind of “by their fruits ye shall know them” argument is, of course, a slippery slope. Once you admit that moments of weakness affect even the genuinely born-again, who then lapse into sin, you are stuck with figuring out how much sin is too much.

1 John 1:8 tells us that we all sin. 1 John 3:9 tells us that whoever is born of God cannot sin. See the problem?

 

[Dan Clarkston]

1 John 1:8 tells us that we all sin. 1 John 3:9 tells us that whoever is born of God cannot sin. See the problem?

That's a straight up contradiction!

If we all sin, then after we get saved we are still sinners right?

I've heard numerous people say that Christians are still sinners and we all sin everyday.

 

[Pearl]

I don't see where smoking a little weed occasionally is any different from Jesus having a few glasses of wine? And where does the bible say he had a few glasses of wine anyway?

Weed is an addictive drug and can damage your brain as can alcohol if taken in high enough quantities. Alcohol isn't illegal though but weed is - at least here in the UK it is. So I would say it is wrong to smoke it if it's illegal in your area.

That's what I have been told along with whatever lifestyle we choose, it can never cause us to not be saved.

Once we're saved it is up to us to recognise the sin in our lives and get rid of it with the help of the Holy Spirit.

This might be a good thing to show my coworker because he says christians don't drink alcohol at all or smoke any weed ever.

Some cult religions do teach this - like Jehovah's Witnesses - and you don't want to get mixed up with them.

I've read most of the new testament, but none the less the pastor told me once somebody gets saved they cn never be unsaved, so is this true or no?

It is true although there are some cults that deny it. Once you're born again as a son of God you can't be unborn. However we do need to learn to live Godly, righteous, Christian lives. We can put away from us our more worldly habits through prayer and again with the Spirit's help. The longer you have been a Christian the easier it is to see those worldly things in you life that you need to change

OH, I see so eternal security is not true then?

The pastor said it was true and to not let anybody talk me in to believing it's not true.

Whoever told you that is totally wrong so take your pastors advice and shut your ears to such talk. And there are a good few on here that belong to religions and cults which preach a false gospel and have wrong doctrines other than the true gospel of Christ Jesus. Be on your guard against anybody who would lead you astray.

 

[Pearl]

If we all sin, then after we get saved we are still sinners right?

@Dan Clarkston No! Once we're saved/born again we are no longer sinners, the bible calls us saints - not the sort that are made by humans. Once we are washed clean of our sin by the blood of Jesus the Lamb of God, He no longer sees our sin because like a shepherd will take the skin of a dead lamb and cover an orphaned one with it so the ewe, the mother of the dead one will accept the orphaned one as her own. We have been covered by the blood of Jesus and accepted as God's own.

We still continue to do sinful things but no longer live lives of sin.

Tomorrow is my spiritual birthday. I was born again on December 18th 1977 - so I have been a Christian for 46 years. Until I started coming on the so-called Christian sites I had never heard these false claims. But Jesus is my Rock and my firm foundation. If you have read the New Testament then you will probably have read the story of the two men who built houses - one on rock and the other on sand. When the storms of life came the house on sand fell down. I was very blessed to have only ever belonged to two churches- both of which preached the true gospel, and I had a good mentor who patiently discipled me, helping me to lay that firm foundation.


Matthew 7:24-27
“Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”

 

[Cassandra]

When we get saved, we give our heart to the Lord. He then gifts us the Holy spirit and we become new creatures in Christ, not wanting to do what we did before.

2 Cor 5:17 …16So from now on we regard no one according to the flesh. Although we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. 17Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away. Behold, the new has come.

In order for you to continue a relationship with Jesus, you need to learn about him, just like if you wanted a relationship with a person, you would want to know all about them.. the way you do this is by bible study.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Alcohol isn't illegal though but weed is

It's perfectly legal where I'm at so I'm not breaking the law and studies have show that alcohol is more damaging to someone's body than weed is.

Once we're saved it is up to us to recognise the sin in our lives and get rid of it with the help of the Holy Spirit.

But regardless we are still saved right?

Do you think we can lose our salvation? My coworker says we can.

Some cult religions do teach this - like Jehovah's Witnesses - and you don't want to get mixed up with them.

So if someone is a Christian and they believe it's wrong to drunk alcohol or smoke weed that makes them a cult???

That's sounds off. some of the people in the baptist church I got saved in believe Christians should never get intoxicated and they are not cult members..

Once you're born again as a son of God you can't be unborn.

There we go then. Sleeping with my girlfriend and smoking weed will not cause me to not be saved.

This is what the pastor was basically saying because he told me our lifestyle cannot make us unsaved.

Whoever told you that is totally wrong so take your pastors advice and shut your ears to such talk.

So you believe that not matter how a person lives, they cannot be unsaved right?

Once we are washed clean of our sin by the blood of Jesus the Lamb of God, He no longer sees our sin.....We still continue to do sinful things but no longer live lives of sin.

So your telling me God no longer sees my sin at all.

Then you say we continue to sin but no longer live sinful lives? This is about as clear as mud and is a contradiction

So far, it sounds like we can do what some call sinful stuff and it's not problem because God cannot even see out sin anymore since we got saved.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

When we get saved, we give our heart to the Lord. He then gifts us the Holy spirit and we become new creatures in Christ, not wanting to do what we did before.

The other guy was saying once we get saved and are covered by Jesus that after that God cannot see out sin

So apparently is doesn't matter since God can't see out sin anymore!

I haven't heard it explained like that, but it fits with what the pastor told me which was our lifestyle can never make is unsaved.

 

[Mink57]

That's what I have been told along with whatever lifestyle we choose, it can never cause us to not be saved.

A question for you: Does that makes sense to you? Does that mean you can go on a crime spree, commit adultery, lie, steal, be unloving to people and the like, that NONE of that will matter to Jesus?

If somebody has a few glassed of wine, they are buzzed which is getting drunk.

Not true. Getting "buzzed" or drunk needs a few factors other than simply drinking alcohol. Getting drunk depends on how much one is drinking, whether they've eaten a meal right BEFORE they drink, or WHILE they're drinking, how much time they take to drink, whether they're male or female, how much they weigh, as well as some other factors. For example, if you're a 22 year old male, who weighs 170 lbs, ate a heavy meal and THEN ordered a glass of wine that you drank over an hour, the chances of you feeling a "buzz" are slim to none. Same with having 2 glasses of wine over two hours, and noshing along the way.

I don't see where smoking a little weed occasionally is any different from Jesus having a few glasses of wine? And where does the bible say he had a few glasses of wine anyway?

It's pretty obvious that Jesus did drink wine. But some accused him of being a 'drunk.': "For John the Baptist has come neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and you say, ‘He has a demon!’ 34 The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Behold, a gluttonous man and a [a]heavy drinker, a friend of tax collectors and [b]sinners!’ The point is, that while Jesus drank wine, he wasn't getting "drunk."

This might be a good thing to show my coworker because he says christians don't drink alcohol at all or smoke any weed ever.

SOME Christians don't drink/smoke at all. OTHERS have no issue with it because they do so in moderation.

I've read most of the new testament, but none the less the pastor told me once somebody gets saved they cn never be unsaved, so is this true or no?

And if you went to a different church, a different pastor may tell you something completely different. This is why it's really important for us to read the bible AND do our homework on this.

 

[Cassandra]

The other guy was saying once we get saved and are covered by Jesus that after that God cannot see out sin

So apparently is doesn't matter since God can't see out sin anymore!

I haven't heard it explained like that, but it fits with what the pastor told me which was our lifestyle can never make is unsaved.

Your sins are forgiven up to that point. you then become a new creature in Christ, and no longer want to sin. If you do sin though, you can ask for forgiveness. You shouldn't want to continue in sin.
There is a problem if you have no desire to quit sinning or follow the Lord. You may not have been truly saved.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

A question for you: Does that makes sense to you? Does that mean you can go on a crime spree, commit adultery, lie, steal, be unloving to people and the like, that NONE of that will matter to Jesus?

It makes about as much sense to me as Jesus drinking a few glasses of wine getting buzzed and that's not considered getting drunk!

It's pretty obvious that Jesus did drink wine. But some accused him of being a 'drunk.': "For John the Baptist has come neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and you say, ‘He has a demon!’ 34 The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Behold, a gluttonous man and a [a]heavy drinker, a friend of tax collectors and [b]sinners!’ The point is, that while Jesus drank wine, he wasn't getting "drunk."

Sounds a lot like He was. You already said getting buzzed is not getting drunk so apparently the definition of what getting drunk is would be up to out own interpretation.

I'm not a big drinker but having a few drinks and getting buzzed is being drunk. I know this because it's a lot different than being sober and not having drank any alcohol.

SOME Christians don't drink/smoke at all. OTHERS have no issue with it because they do so in moderation.

Well there ya go! We can do sinful stuff all we want as long as it's in moderation and even that doesn't matter because God can't see out sin anyway since we are covered by Jesus.

Not sure why this even matters because after all, nothing we can do can cause us to be un-saved right?

And if you went to a different church, a different pastor may tell you something completely different. This is why it's really important for us to read the bible AND do our homework on this.

Does the bible teach something different from we can never be un-saved?

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Your sins are forgiven up to that point. you then become a new creature in Christ, and no longer want to sin. If you do sin though, you can ask for forgiveness. You shouldn't want to continue in sin.
There is a problem if you have no desire to quit sinning or follow the Lord. You may not have been truly saved.

Well that's a big contradiction to what I've been hearing so far

We cannot be un-saved no matter what, our lifestyle can never cause us to be un-saved, God cannot see out sins anymore because Jesus covers us, we all continue to sin even after getting saved, and now you're saying sinning means we never were saved in the first place.

I think you folks must be confused or something because this is all one big contradiction!

Which way is it? Can somebody be un-saved after getting saved or not?

 

[Cassandra]

Well that's a big contradiction to what I've been hearing so far

We cannot be un-saved no matter what, our lifestyle can never cause us to be un-saved, God cannot see out sins anymore because Jesus covers us, we all continue to sin even after getting saved, and now you're saying sinning means we never were saved in the first place.

I think you folks must be confused or something because this is all one big contradiction!

Which way is it? Can somebody be un-saved after getting saved or not?

But are you really saved? If you are, you want to follow Jesus. If not, maybe you were just going through the motions. You already know the answer.
I think you are confused. If you read your Bible. you would know. You don't seem to have any desire to walk with the Lord.

The gospel is simple.
Ask the Lord to forgive you. Then if you are sincere, He will send the Holy spirit. You will be a new person in Christ (that verse has already been published upthread) You will want to learn all about Him--this is accomplished by Bible study, prayer,.
If you don't feel that you want to learn of him, I don't think you are saved. I don't know. Are you trying to justify your own actions because of what you say the pastor said?
Your salvation depends on you, not your pastor. You need to look for yourself.

 

[Mink57]

What does your common sense tell you?

 

[Mink57]

Well that's a big contradiction to what I've been hearing so far

We cannot be un-saved no matter what, our lifestyle can never cause us to be un-saved, God cannot see out sins anymore because Jesus covers us, we all continue to sin even after getting saved, and now you're saying sinning means we never were saved in the first place.

I think you folks must be confused or something because this is all one big contradiction!

Which way is it? Can somebody be un-saved after getting saved or not?

I had a whole post that I wrote to you, and when I hit 'post reply', it somehow disappeared!

Being saved is MORE than simply repeating a prayer. It has to do with repentance.