When Christ returns, we shall all be changed, including heaven and earth, actually all things are changed out for something better.

[rwb]

We all are capable of reading other people's viewpoints and selecting from them what agrees with the Scriptures. This is not the sin which you presume it to be. You have an obvious bias against anything at all coming from a Preterist position. I on the other hand chew the meat and spit out the bones from every other person's eschatological viewpoints that I encounter. I read and listen widely - even from those that have totally opposite perspectives. I have many times learned some vital points from those who would not agree with me on eschatology at all.

You haven't simply read another point of view; you have embraced this unbiblical point of view! If you are a person of faith endowed with the Spirit of Christ, you have the ability within yourself to be able to discern what is truth and what is deception. It doesn't appear that you have done that, because in this forum you have presented some very bizarre opinions without support from the Bible.

That is not the perspective I am presenting. I too am looking forward to the blessed hope of my own bodily resurrection at Christ's next coming in our future. What God has already done twice before on two separate resurrection events in AD 33 and AD 70, He will do yet again for me in my future.

Where, using the Word of God, can you present proof of three bodily resurrections? There is ZERO corroboration of a bodily resurrection in 70 AD. And when Christ resurrected from the grave and many bodies of the saints came out of the grave, Scripture says only that they went into the holy city and appeared to many. How will you attempt to prove the holy city is Jerusalem of this earth, since Jerusalem ceased to be holy with the crucifixion of Christ. Prove from the Bible this was a physical resurrection of saints long before John writes that ALL who are in the graves shall be resurrected together in an hour coming, when the last/seventh trumpet sounds, and time shall be no longer.

If there were a bodily resurrection of saints physically, how can it be reconciled with what John and even Paul tells us the bodily resurrection shall be? Your opinions MUST be reconciled in a manner that forces NO contradictions into the Word of God. You cannot reconcile 'three' bodily resurrections, because Scripture mentions only the "first resurrection" which is the physical resurrection of Christ man MUST partake of to overcome the second death. And the bodily resurrection of ALL, both those of faith and those in unbelief, shall be resurrected in the hour coming, and not before.

I rejoice that I don't have to anticipate the three Beasts and their operations, neither Armageddon nor Gog and Magog, nor the rest of the disasters that Revelation predicted for those times that were "at hand' for those in the first century. These are ancient history by now. Christ already struck Daniel 2's image back in AD 70, and that "stone" kingdom has been steadily growing ever since, just as predicted. God has an optimistic outcome predicted for the growth of His kingdom in this world in our future, and He WILL accomplish that purpose.

It shall be a sad revelation for you, when your anticipated rejoicing shall turn to sorrow! You need to remove the dark doctrines of Preterists that you might be able to come to a knowledge of TRUTH!

 

[Scott Downey]

Present evil generation. Correct!

Not a first-century generation. Not the 1948 generation.

The word translated generation here is the Greek word [genea], which first denotes posterity (family), and then a specific or particular family time line. As one might say "the previous generation," or "the next generation." I would be talking about a family era. It is from the Greek word [genos] literally meaning family or relative. For example as [genos] is used in 1st Peter

1st Peter 2:9

• "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:"

That means a God determined "family" or kinfolk chosen to be "children" of light. Indeed, called out of the family of darkness unto light. God is declaring that we are "now" of the family of Christ, just as the wicked are a generation or family of vipers...as indeed we once were the wicked or sinful generation (Mark 8:38). The wicked generation of family exists throughout time, and the blood from Abel to Christ will be required of it. Because it spans that time, even unto today.

Matthew 12:39

• "But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:"

The evil generation that Christ speaks of is not simply the people of the era when Christ walked the earth. It is any children of the family of evil. They are the sinful generation, the generation of evil that Christ referred to. They are the generation that have not yet born again with Christ. And this is the same word [genea] used in Matthew 24. Therefore, this generation or family of evil shall not pass until all be fulfilled. And true to His word, this generation hasn't passed and all is not yet fulfilled. These wicked children are still present in the world today. It is that generation whom the beast will deceive and gather together to assault the camp of the saints whoever remains on Earth before the Rapture. Then, and only then, will all be fulfilled.

Spiritually, it is a family relationship. Just as we are the posterity of Christ (having been born of the Spirit of God), the wicked are the children of the Devil, having the spirit of disobedience (Ephesians 5:6-9). Two distinct and opposing families or generations. We are either the children of light, or we are the children of darkness. There is no other alternative (Ephesians 5:8; 1st Thessalonians 5:5). And the children of wickedness are a generation or family unit. This can be proven quite easily:

Luke 16:8

• "And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light."

Christ is declaring that the family of the world is more prudent and wise in their interests and concerns of this life, than the family of the light are in their interests and concerns for the world to come. And we often see this as Christians not really concerned with any preparation for the hereafter, just their own talent hid away in the earth. Not very smart. Here again, this is the same word [genea]. The children of the family of darkness, are in their own way wiser than the children of the family of light "in that they prepared for "their" future. The word generation here means the posterity or family of the children.

So generation most certainly could not mean simply the people of that particular time period in this context. The well oiled myth that generation must mean that era, or as Preterists or Premillennialists like to claim it means, around a 30-40-50-70 year timespan, is found to be quite biblically unsupportable!

Yes, very good.
This evil generation will not pass until Christ returns and destroys it.
They are all of them children of the devil, the evil generation of unbelief will be terminated at the second coming. just as 2 Thess 1 describes, which is still future.

 

[Scott Downey]

God’s Final Judgment and Glory​

3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is fitting, because your faith grows exceedingly, and the love of every one of you all abounds toward each other, 4 so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and [a]tribulations that you endure,

5 which is manifest[b] evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer;

6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with [c]tribulation those who trouble you,

7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels,

8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who [d]believe, because our testimony among you was believed.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Last time I looked at the earth, it is still full of violence, persecutions, tribulations for the saints.
We are still waiting on v7, 8, 9, 10 to occur.
A preterist claim of Christ's return in 70AD obviously becomes foolishness when compared to many scriptures.

 

[Scott Downey]

6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with [c]tribulation those who trouble you,

7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels,

Where is the rest from persecutions and trials, such things are still coming for the church to this day.
This letter is written to a gentile Greek city, not the Jews.

Thessaloniki, City in Macedonia, Greece

1. 
   

   Copilot Answer​

   
   
   
   
   Northern Greece
   Thessalonika, now known as Thessaloniki, was an ancient city located in northern Greece, founded in 316 BCE by King Cassander of Macedon. It was named after his wife, Thessalonike, who was the daughter of Philip II of Macedon and the sister of Alexander the Great. The city became a significant trade center along the Via Egnatia, a major Roman trade route, and served as the capital of the Roman province of Macedonia. Thessalonika was known for its rich cultural heritage, attracting figures such as the Apostle Paul and later became a center for Christianity, with its first bishop being one of Paul's companions.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Where, using the Word of God, can you present proof of three bodily resurrections? There is ZERO corroboration of a bodily resurrection in 70 AD.

Not so. I wouldn't present this viewpoint of there being THREE bodily resurrection events scheduled for mankind over the span of fallen man's history unless there were Scriptures which back this up. But it is off-topic of this post, don't you think? Better for me to start a totally new post with that title.

 

[rwb]

Not so. I wouldn't present this viewpoint of there being THREE bodily resurrection events scheduled for mankind over the span of fallen man's history unless there were Scriptures which back this up. But it is off-topic of this post, don't you think? Better for me to start a totally new post with that title.

You repeatedly present three bodily resurrections without giving any supporting Scripture. I wouldn't think discussing this as being off topic. The bodily resurrection of ALL who are in the graves is certainly relevant to the return of Christ, which I believe is the point the OP is making. When Christ returns all things shall change, being changed from mortal to immortal and corruptible to incorruptible. A ONE-time resurrection event in an hour that is coming when the last/seventh trumpet sounds and time for this temporal existence shall be no longer. This is ushered in when every eye shall see Christ returning in the sky in the same manner He was seen departing this earth.

 

[3 Resurrections]

This is ushered in when every eye shall see Christ returning in the sky in the same manner He was seen departing this earth.

To be more precise, the prediction of "every eye" who would see Christ's second coming return was specifically "those who pierced Him". Nobody today is guilty of that charge of piercing Christ. That was strictly a first-century Jewish generation which had been accused of being "the betrayers and murderers" of Christ. Those Israelite tribes would do that mourning "IN Jerusalem" - not around the globe - when they saw His bodily return to the Mount of Olives. We are even told examples of which tribes and families would be mourning in Jerusalem in Zechariah 12:11-13: namely, the house of David, the house of Nathan, the house of Levi, and the family of Shimei. None of these families and tribes are in existence today. God got rid of all the genealogical records when the Zealots deliberately burned up the archives in Jerusalem during those AD 66-70 years.

 

[rwb]

To be more precise, the prediction of "every eye" who would see Christ's second coming return was specifically "those who pierced Him". Nobody today is guilty of that charge of piercing Christ. That was strictly a first-century Jewish generation which had been accused of being "the betrayers and murderers" of Christ. Those Israelite tribes would do that mourning "IN Jerusalem" - not around the globe - when they saw His bodily return to the Mount of Olives. We are even told examples of which tribes and families would be mourning in Jerusalem in Zechariah 12:11-13: namely, the house of David, the house of Nathan, the house of Levi, and the family of Shimei. None of these families and tribes are in existence today. God got rid of all the genealogical records when the Zealots deliberately burned up the archives in Jerusalem during those AD 66-70 years.

Every eye means exactly that! The return of Christ will be visibly seen in the cloud to those who are still physically alive at His coming. All those who have physically died and in the graves shall also visibly see His return in the flesh when they are physically resurrected to stand before the great white throne judgment. All of humanity shall be called to the judgment seat of Christ, but only "the dead" or those who died in unbelief, (have not been clothed in immortal & incorruptible body of flesh every believer shall receive at His coming again), shall be judged according to what is recorded in the books and the book of life.

John 6:39-40 (KJV) And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

2 Corinthians 5:10 (KJV) For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Matthew 25:32-34 (KJV) And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Matthew 25:41 (KJV) Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Matthew 25:46 (KJV) And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (KJV) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

John 5:28-29 (KJV) Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

1 Corinthians 15:51-53 (KJV) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Revelation 20:7 (KJV) And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Revelation 20:10 (KJV) And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:11-15 (KJV) And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[WPM]

This text does not say that every person on the globe would simultaneously see the returning Savior coming bodily to the Mount of Olives. Pay careful attention to the little word "even" in this verse. The Greek word is "kai", which Scripture often uses in an explanatory sense, meaning "namely, or specifically". It would be every eye that would see Him, "NAMELY" (kai) they which pierced Him. It was the Jewish people who Stephen accused of being the "betrayers and murderers" of Christ. It was those Israelite tribes who pierced Christ who would be mourning when they saw Him bodily return to the Mount of Olives from their own besieged position inside the city of Jerusalem in AD 70.

More twisting of Scripture. "Kai" normally means "and." It is the Greek word for "and." The result of every eye seeing Him is that the kindreds of the earth mourn - wail! Hello! You butcher the text in order to reinforce your heretical nonsense. The text is essentially saying that Jew and Gentile alike will see His final future climatic return.

 

[WPM]

A Preterist recognizes God's own definition of what an "at hand" prophecy is. The lengthy passage of Ezekiel 12:21-28 lets us know just how God defines this "at hand" term. Any of Revelation's prophecies which were titled as being "at hand" (Rev. 1:3 and 22:10) meant that these prophecies were not going to be "prolonged" into "times that are far off". Instead, God would not only speak the words of the "at hand" prophecies, but God would also "perform" them "in YOUR days" to the ones who were first receiving them in the first century time frame. Scripture defines itself.

The New Jerusalem (which Hebrews 12:22 wrote that the saints had already come to by then) is still a present reality. It is a reality that has been standing unshaken ever since the shaking process of the AD 66-70 years when all the dead "weak and beggarly elements" which had composed the physical temple worship system were dissolved and passed away.

As for the Great White Throne judgment, who says that can only happen one time ONLY? Scripture never says that this is limited to one occasion only. Paul warned Felix in AD 60 about this "judgment about to be" at a resurrection of the just and the unjust which was also "about to be" (Acts 24:15). The imminence of this soon-coming judgment caused Felix's fearful, trembling response in Acts 24:25.

So, AD 70 had its own Great White Throne judgment, but there will yet be another future occasion for it at the culmination of fallen mankind's history on this planet. "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad." God splits this GWT judgment into two occasions - not just one.

I already addressed this above. Our view of time is completely different from God's. There is a big difference between God’s heavenly eternal perspective and our earthly temporal perspective, something you do not seem to grasp. The phrases “a long time” and “a short time” are all subject to the one talking, their perspective and the subject matter under discussion. From man's perspective 2000 years is a long time. From God's perspective it is not. Time is but a blink to His infinite mind and to the eternal state. Remember, God is “from everlasting” (Habakkuk 1:12, Psalms 93:2).

On this matter, a basic understanding of “time” and “eternity” will explain what we are looking at in Scripture. The phrase “at hand” or “near” is taken from the single Greek word eggizō, and simply means “approaches.” It is not time-specific. It can mean immediate or distant future, like our English word. In fact, it carries the exact same sense as our English word. It all depends upon the setting and the context in view. It carries a broad meaning and does not in any way demand an imminent fulfilment. Other words like “quickly,” “shortly” and “near,” express time from God’s eternal standpoint, not man’s natural position. It is therefore wrong to force our dim earthly sense of time upon God. It is definitely foolish to build a whole theology upon that.

Christ speaks of the last day, in Matthew 24:29-31, saying, “Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. And then (or) tote (or at that time) shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn (orkopsontai), and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”

• When and why did all the tribes mourn in AD70?
• When did the “angels gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other” in AD70?

In your theology: everything is a massive Gnostic illusion. Anyway, there is no factual historic evidence of this occurring in the past. It only exists in the imaginations of Full Preterists.

To attribute the coming of Titus in AD 70 in 1 Peter 4:3-7 as the “end of all things” is laughable, unbiblical and irrational. It states: “the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries: Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you: Who shall give account to Him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead. For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. But the end of all things is at hand.”

Peter continues in verse 13 of the same passage, whilst speaking of that great final event, by encouraging the believers, saying, “rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.”

The coming of Christ and the end of all things is near to God since He is not limited to time. What is more, what is considered near to Him can seem like a long time to us.

Peter informs us that “the end of all things” occurs at the Second Advent – the time when Christ shall judge “the quick and the dead” (or the living and the dead). The context here relates to judgment day when every human will stand before the judgment seat of Christ to give an account of themselves to Christ. Moreover, he indicates, whilst the day of revelation of Christ is an awful day of woe for the wicked, it is a day of joy and reward for the righteous. Notwithstanding, and significantly, the judgment of the wicked and “the end of all things” is said to be “at hand” or eengiken meaning ‘to be near’ or ‘approaching.’

Notably, it is from the usage of this word that the Pretribbers argue for an imminent secret return of Christ rather than an impending all-consummating final return, as is biblical. Notwithstanding, whether one understands the term “at hand” as imminent or impending isn’t particularly important here, it is the fact that the judgment of the wicked coincides with the one final future all-consummating Second Advent. Also, the clear allusion of the judgment of “the living and the dead” unquestionably proves a general judgment as the A and Postmillennialists believes.

The second coming is all-consummating and ushers in the complete end of all things old, temporal, sinful and corrupt. His return introduces the beginning of all things new, eternal, righteous and God-glorifying.

In the new heavens and new earth there is going to be no more grief, grave stones or goodbyes. There is coming a day in the future when dying, crying, pain, sorrow and the curse will cease. Or put differently, there is going to be no sea, no sepulchers, no sorrow, no suffering. All the awful effects of sin have finally and eternally been expunged, namely death, disease, disaster, disappointment, depression, and despair. All things are now new.

 

[Scott Downey]

Not so. I wouldn't present this viewpoint of there being THREE bodily resurrection events scheduled for mankind over the span of fallen man's history unless there were Scriptures which back this up. But it is off-topic of this post, don't you think? Better for me to start a totally new post with that title.

You using 1 Cor 15 to say there are 3 resurrections to life is not correct.
v23 shows 2 resurrections.

Christ the first fruits. is the first.
Afterwards those who are Christ's at His coming is the second.
Then comes the END.

Infact you're using these points out the dead in Christ are not raised yet, as every Christian who has died is still in their grave.
The cemeteries are full of dead corpses and the earth is full of the dust of the dead.

All the dead are raised BODILY on the Last Day when Christ returns to judge the whole earth, all mankind.
Then on that DAY, there is the resurrection of life, and the resurrection of condemnation, and it happens simultaneously.

John 11:25
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live.

That is the DAY GOD has appointed, when HE will judge the world in righteousness by the Man He has ordained.

Acts 17
30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”

1 Cor 15

The Last Enemy Destroyed​

20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have [d]fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.

23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.

24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.

 

[Scott Downey]

This here is the bodily resurrection of all the dead.

John 5
28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

30 I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.

And this happens on the LAST DAY.
See after this comes the END (of this world and the beginning of the new one).

20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have [d]fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.

23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.

24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Guess what, He is reigning right now in Heaven on the throne.

The last enemy is destroyed when He comes to judge the world in righteousness, and pass out rewards and judgments.

1 Corinthians 4:5
Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord comes, who will both bring to light the hidden things of darkness and reveal the counsels of the hearts. Then each one’s praise will come from God.

 

[3 Resurrections]

v23 shows 2 resurrections.

Yes, I agree that 1 Cor. 15:23 shows two resurrections. But the next verse 24 shows us the third. "THEN the end..." etc. This does not tell you that at that same time of the second resurrection, the end would come. IF that were Paul's intent, he would have chosen the Greek word "tote" meaning "at that time" for the word "then". He didn't. He used the Greek word "epeita", which is continuing yet another event on the list, subsequent to the second one before in verse 23. Check a Greek dictionary for yourself, if I'm not explaining this well enough. I'm using Vine's dictionary.

"Christ the First-fruits" (the "first resurrection" in AD 33)
"Afterward (eita) they that are Christ's at His coming" (which was the second resurrection - in AD 70)
"THEN (epeita) cometh the end..." etc., etc.. (which speaks of the next resurrection event to follow at the end of fallen mankinds's history in our future)

...every Christian who has died is still in their grave.
The cemeteries are full of dead corpses and the earth is full of the dust of the dead.

Of course the cemeteries are full of dead corpses and of the dust of the dead. They are the remains of either the righteous who have died since AD 70's bodily resurrection, or they are the mortal remains of the wicked dead from all the way back to creation until now. The bodies of the wicked dead were always destined to "perish" in the grave. It is their souls which are resurrected to stand in judgment, after which those souls also perish. Isaiah speaks of the wicked in this way. "They are dead, they shall not live: They are deceased, they shall NOT rise." (Isaiah 26:14).

 

[WPM]

Yes, I agree that 1 Cor. 15:23 shows two resurrections. But the next verse 24 shows us the third. "THEN the end..." etc. This does not tell you that at that same time of the second resurrection, the end would come. IF that were Paul's intent, he would have chosen the Greek word "tote" meaning "at that time" for the word "then". He didn't. He used the Greek word "epeita", which is continuing yet another event on the list, subsequent to the second one before in verse 23. Check a Greek dictionary for yourself, if I'm not explaining this well enough. I'm using Vine's dictionary.

"Christ the First-fruits" (the "first resurrection" in AD 33)
"Afterward (eita) they that are Christ's at His coming" (which was the second resurrection - in AD 70)
"THEN (epeita) cometh the end..." etc., etc.. (which speaks of the next resurrection event to follow at the end of fallen mankinds's history in our future)


Of course the cemeteries are full of dead corpses and of the dust of the dead. They are the remains of either the righteous who have died since AD 70's bodily resurrection, or they are the mortal remains of the wicked dead from all the way back to creation until now. The bodies of the wicked dead were always destined to "perish" in the grave. It is their souls which are resurrected to stand in judgment, after which those souls also perish. Isaiah speaks of the wicked in this way. "They are dead, they shall not live: They are deceased, they shall NOT rise." (Isaiah 26:14).

You heretics should write your own Bible. You twist every truth, text and original word to support your error.

Paul confirms the validity of this truth and the finality of that day, in 1 Corinthians 15:22-24, stating, “For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at His coming. Then (or eita or thereupon) cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down (or katargeésee or abolished) all rule and all authority and power.”

Here, once again, we see the finality of Christ’s coming – it is the end. It is at that stage that Christ finally presents “UP the kingdom to God” and “shall have put DOWN all rule and all authority and power.” We thus see the contrast between God’s dealing with the kingdom of God and the kingdom of darkness at the end. We see the specific time of this concluding separation event – the ‘parousia’. Therefore, this all-consummating last day ushers in the end of all things.

 

[Scott Downey]

Yes, I agree that 1 Cor. 15:23 shows two resurrections. But the next verse 24 shows us the third. "THEN the end..." etc. This does not tell you that at that same time of the second resurrection, the end would come. IF that were Paul's intent, he would have chosen the Greek word "tote" meaning "at that time" for the word "then". He didn't. He used the Greek word "epeita", which is continuing yet another event on the list, subsequent to the second one before in verse 23. Check a Greek dictionary for yourself, if I'm not explaining this well enough. I'm using Vine's dictionary.

"Christ the First-fruits" (the "first resurrection" in AD 33)
"Afterward (eita) they that are Christ's at His coming" (which was the second resurrection - in AD 70)
"THEN (epeita) cometh the end..." etc., etc.. (which speaks of the next resurrection event to follow at the end of fallen mankinds's history in our future)


Of course the cemeteries are full of dead corpses and of the dust of the dead. They are the remains of either the righteous who have died since AD 70's bodily resurrection, or they are the mortal remains of the wicked dead from all the way back to creation until now. The bodies of the wicked dead were always destined to "perish" in the grave. It is their souls which are resurrected to stand in judgment, after which those souls also perish. Isaiah speaks of the wicked in this way. "They are dead, they shall not live: They are deceased, they shall NOT rise." (Isaiah 26:14).

Another false teaching, that there is no bodily resurrection of the unsaved dead.
They are bodily resurrected; it is called the resurrection of condemnation.
I pointed that out in post 412

 

[Scott Downey]

Acts 24:14-16
New King James Version
14 But this I confess to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect, so I worship the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets.

15 I have hope in God, which they themselves also accept, that there will be a resurrection [a]of the dead, both of the just and the unjust.

16 This being so, I myself always strive to have a conscience without offense toward God and men.

The problem is people do not define the resurrection biblically, which means to raise the dead, and what dies? The body dies at death.
So they speak of spirits....

 

[3 Resurrections]

This here is the bodily resurrection of all the dead.

John 5
28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

Yep, I agree. All the dead were to be included in this resurrection and judgment in "the hour is coming" that Christ spoke about. But Paul told Felix that this particular judgment and resurrection of both just and unjust was "about to be" in his own time frame (as he was speaking in Acs 24:15 to Felix in AD 60). ALL the dead up to that point in AD 70 were participants in that first-century resurrection which was coming soon for Paul's audience.

Another false teaching, that there is no bodily resurrection of the unsaved dead.
They are bodily resurrected; it is called the resurrection of condemnation.

I used to believe that too. Then I saw texts such as Psalms 1:5. "Therefore the ungodly shall NOT stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous." And like Isaiah 25:14 where the bodies of the wicked dead do NOT live, nor do they rise. This is in direct contrast to the bodies of the godly in Isaiah 25:19 which DO rise bodily out of the grave.

The souls of the wicked dead DO face a resurrection judgment before God (the "resurrection to destruction" you quoted above), but since they do not having the covering of Christ's righteousness, their souls perish in that judgment. We are told we should fear God who is capable of destroying the wicked, both body and soul.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Here, once again, we see the finality of Christ’s coming – it is the end. It is at that stage that Christ finally presents “UP the kingdom to God” and “shall have put DOWN all rule and all authority and power.” We thus see the contrast between God’s dealing with the kingdom of God and the kingdom of darkness at the end. We see the specific time of this concluding separation event – the ‘parousia’. Therefore, this all-consummating last day ushers in the end of all things.

I have already said I agree that this "END" in 1 Cor. 15:24 is in our future at the culmination point of fallen mankind's history. But this "END" is THIRD on the list of THREE consecutive resurrection events which Paul lists, one after another, in 1 Cor. 15:22-24. The "rule and authority and power" that is put down at the "END" are the ordinary governmental structures which God set up to restrain and punish evil acts. The "powers that be" that were ordained of God will no longer be necessary for a planet purified of all human evil at the close of fallen mankind's history.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

To be more precise, the prediction of "every eye" who would see Christ's second coming return was specifically "those who pierced Him". Nobody today is guilty of that charge of piercing Christ. That was strictly a first-century Jewish generation which had been accused of being "the betrayers and murderers" of Christ. Those Israelite tribes would do that mourning "IN Jerusalem" - not around the globe - when they saw His bodily return to the Mount of Olives. We are even told examples of which tribes and families would be mourning in Jerusalem in Zechariah 12:11-13: namely, the house of David, the house of Nathan, the house of Levi, and the family of Shimei. None of these families and tribes are in existence today. God got rid of all the genealogical records when the Zealots deliberately burned up the archives in Jerusalem during those AD 66-70 years.

For someone with the word "Resurrections" in his username, you sure know nothing about the resurrection of the dead. Those who pierced Him will be resurrected when He comes again in the future and then they will see Him and will stand before Him to be judged along with everyone else who has ever lived (Matthew 25:31-46).

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I have already said I agree that this "END" in 1 Cor. 15:24 is in our future at the culmination point of fallen mankind's history. But this "END" is THIRD on the list of THREE consecutive resurrection events which Paul lists, one after another, in 1 Cor. 15:22-24. The "rule and authority and power" that is put down at the "END" are the ordinary governmental structures which God set up to restrain and punish evil acts. The "powers that be" that were ordained of God will no longer be necessary for a planet purified of all human evil at the close of fallen mankind's history.

He does not list three consecutive resurrection events! You are making that up! Why do you treat the holy word of God so recklessly?

1 Corinthians 15:20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.

There are TWO (2) resurrection events listed here, not three. The first was Christ's resurrection itself which made Him "the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep". The second will be of "those who are Christ's at His coming" in the future at which point the end will come and He will deliver the kingdom to the Father. That's it. Where do you see any other resurrection mentioned there besides Christ's resurrection and the resurrection of those who are Christ's? There are none. Stop making things up and trying to add things to scripture which are not there.