Since it is without doubt that Christ did not physically come in 70 AD, prove from the Word of God using the plain words of Scripture without spiritualizing what you cannot biblically prove that He has already returned!
When Christ returns, we shall all be changed, including heaven and earth, actually all things are changed out for something better.
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Since it is without doubt that Christ did not physically come in 70 AD, prove from the Word of God using the plain words of Scripture without spiritualizing what you cannot biblically prove that He has already returned!
When did Jesus EVER suggeste that His use of THIS generation had to do with "the entire posterity of Father Abrham (sic)"? Never.
The pont in not simply the word "generation" and its meaning. That is why I asked you about demonstrative pronouns. You ignore them. Jesus wasn't speaking about any generation--He was referring to THAT generation. The emphasis is on the NEAR DEMONSTRATIVE pronoun He used (THIS). THIS generation means those of His day. He used that expression NINETEEN times, nwb. Did you look them up? He always, always meant those of His own day (i.e., His contemporaries). Genesis 15:16 is also about a specific generation--the "fourth generation." It does not say, "This generation." What is your point with that verse?
I will try. I will give you "the plain words of Scripture," but you will reject them.
Jesus told His disciples right there with Him before He sent them out to the lost sheep of Israel: "YOU will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man COMES" (Mat. 10:23).
Jesus told those same disciples: "There are some standing HERE who will not taste death until THEY see the Son of Man COMING IN HIS KINGDOM" (Mat. 16:28).
On the Mount of Olives, Jesus spoke directly to THOSE disciples about things that were going to happen to THEM ("YE") in THEIR generation. Jesus said in "plain words": "THIS generation will by no means pass away until ALL THESE THINGS take place" (Mat. 24; Mark 13, Luke 21).
After Caiaphas and the Jewish leaderhip accused Him of blasphemy, Jesus said to THEM: "YOU will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of power and COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN" (Mat. 26:64). THEY were part of the "every eye" that saw His coming (Rev. 1:7).
James wrote: "The COMING of the LORD is AT HAND" (James 5:8). He also wrote that the judge was AT THE DOOR" (James 5:9)
Peter wrote: "The end of all things is AT HAND" (1 Peter 4:7). Those "all things" pertained to the things of the Mosaic Age. Their end came with the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in A. D. 70.
The writer of Hebrews, writing SHORTLY before A. D. 70 (ca. 64-69), wrote: "In a VERY, VERY LITTLE WHILE He who IS COMING will COME and will NOT DELAY" (Heb. 10:37). He did NOT delay.
You cannot accept the "plain words of Scripture" because you make physical that which WAS spiritual. Jesus was not to come "physically." You and other futurists get that from a faulty understanding of Acts 1. He left in the CLOUDS of glory and majesty and authority. Caiaphas and the Sanhedrin were to see Him COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN" (Mat. 26:64).. THAT was the nature of His return; THAT was the "like manner." Every Jew would have understood that. That same phrase "coming on the clouds of heaven" was used by Jesus in Matthew 24 (cf. Mark 13; Luke 21) to depict what would happen to those disciples in THEIR (THIS) generation.
I can and have "biblically proved" that He came already. Will you accept the "plain words of Scripure"?
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Why do you go by what the Jews said? Jesus spoke of two ages in terms of this temporal age during which people get married and they die and the eternal age to come when people will no longer get married or die (Luke 20:34-36). He did not speak in terms of a supposed "Mosaic Age" and "Messianic Age".
You associate the "Messianic Age" with the New Covenant. So, when do you think the supposed "Messianic Age" began?
There are only two ages of the world, the world of this age comprised of time, and the world in the eternal age when time shall be no longer.
Luke 18:30 (KJV) Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting.
Luke 20:34-35 (KJV) And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage: But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
The earth in this present age of time shall pass away, and a new heaven and new earth shall be ushered in. This is when the bride of Christ (Christians) shall be with the Lord throughout eternity. At Christ's coming again there shall be no more tears, no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying, nor pain, for the former things are passed away.
Revelation 21:1-4 (KJV) And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Since none of this came to pass in 70 AD, clearly Christ has not yet returned again.
This generation is not always one of time of typical 40 years, but of generation, of type of mankind.
As in unbelief, the evil age of unbelieving mankind.
All unbelief will pass away with the second coming of Christ
www.blueletterbible.org
STRONGS G1074:
γενεά, -ᾶς, ἡ, (ΓΕΝΩ, γίνομαι [cf. Curtius, p. 610]); Sept. often for דּוֹר; in Greek writings from Homer down;
1. a begetting, birth, nativity: Herodotus 3, 33; Xenophon, Cyril 1, 2, 8, etc.; [others make the collective sense the primary significance, see Curtius as above].
2. passively, that which has been begotten, men of the same stock, a family;
a. properly, as early as Homer; equivalent to מִשְׁפָּחַה, Genesis 31:3, etc. σῴζειν Ῥαχάβην κ. τὴν γενεὰν αὐτῆς, Josephus, Antiquities 5, 1, 5. the several ranks in a natural descent, the successive members of a genealogy: Matthew 1:17, (ἑβδόμη γενεὰ οὗτός ἐστιν ἀπὸ τοῦ πρώτου, Philo, vit. Moys. i. § 2).
b. metaphorically, a race of men very like each other in endowments, pursuits, character; and especially in a bad sense a perverse race: Matthew 17:17; Mark 9:19; Luke 9:41; Luke 16:8; [Acts 2:40].
3. the whole multitude of men living at the same time: Matthew 24:34; Mark 13:30; Luke 1:48 (πᾶσαι αἱ γενεαί); Luke 21:32; Philippians 2:15; used especially of the Jewish race living at one and the same period: Matthew 11:16; Matthew 12:39, 41f, 45; Matthew 16:4; Matthew 23:36; Mark 8:12, 38; Luke 11:29f, 32, 50; Luke 17:25; Acts 13:36; Hebrews 3:10; ἄνθρωποι τῆς γενεᾶς ταύτης, Luke 7:31; ἄνδρες τῆς γεν. ταύ., Luke 11:31; τὴν δὲ γενεὰν αὐτοῦ τίς διηγήσεται, who can describe the wickedness of the present generation, Acts 8:33 (from Isaiah 53:8 Sept.) [but cf. Meyer, at the passage].
4. an age (i. e. the time ordinarily occupied by each successive generation), the space of from 30 to 33 years (Herodotus 2, 142, and others; Heraclitus in Plutarch, def. orac. c. 11), or ὁ χρόνος, ἐν ᾧ γεννῶντα παρέχει τὸν ἐξ αὐτοῦ γεγεννημένον ὁ γεννήσας (Plutarch, the passage cited); in the N. T. common in plural: Ephesians 3:5 [Winers Grammar, § 31, 9 a.; Buttmann, 186 (161)]; παρῳχημέναις γενεαῖς in ages gone by, Acts 14:16; ἀπὸ τῶν γενεῶν for ages, since the generations began, Colossians 1:26; ἐκ γενεῶν ἀρχαίων from the generations of old, from ancient times down, Acts 15:21; εἰς γενεὰς γενεῶν unto generations of generations, through all ages, forever (a phrase which assumes that the longer ages are made up of shorter; see αἰών, 1 a.): Luke 1:50 R L (דּוֹרִים לְדוֹר, Isaiah 51:8); εἰς γενεὰς κ. γενεάς unto generations and generations, ibid. T Tr WH equivalent to וָדוֹר לְדוֹר, Psalm 89:2; Isaiah 34:17; very often in the Sept.; [add, εἰς πάσας τὰς γενεὰς τοῦ αἰῶνος τῶν αἰώνων, Ephesians 3:21, cf. Ellicott at the passage] (γενεά is used of a century in Genesis 15:16, cf. Knobel at the passage, and on the senses of the word see the full remarks of Keim, iii. 206 [v. 245 English translation]).
Examples
Matthew 11
11 “Assuredly, I say to you, among those born of women there has not risen one greater than John the Baptist; but he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. 12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force. 13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. 14 And if you are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who is to come. 15 He who has ears to hear, let him hear!
16 “But to what shall I liken this generation? It is like children sitting in the marketplaces and calling to their companions, 17 and saying:
‘We played the flute for you,
And you did not dance;
We mourned to you,
And you did not [b]lament.’
18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘He has a demon.’ 19 The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Look, a glutton and a [c]winebibber, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ But wisdom is justified by her [d]children.”
As in unbelief, the evil age of unbelieving mankind.
All unbelief will pass away with the second coming of Christ
G1074 - genea - Strong's Greek Lexicon (KJV)
G1074 - γενεά geneá, ghen-eh-ah'; from (a presumed derivative of) ; a generation; by implication, an age (the period or the persons):—age, generation, nation, time.
www.blueletterbible.org
STRONGS G1074:
γενεά, -ᾶς, ἡ, (ΓΕΝΩ, γίνομαι [cf. Curtius, p. 610]); Sept. often for דּוֹר; in Greek writings from Homer down;
1. a begetting, birth, nativity: Herodotus 3, 33; Xenophon, Cyril 1, 2, 8, etc.; [others make the collective sense the primary significance, see Curtius as above].
2. passively, that which has been begotten, men of the same stock, a family;
a. properly, as early as Homer; equivalent to מִשְׁפָּחַה, Genesis 31:3, etc. σῴζειν Ῥαχάβην κ. τὴν γενεὰν αὐτῆς, Josephus, Antiquities 5, 1, 5. the several ranks in a natural descent, the successive members of a genealogy: Matthew 1:17, (ἑβδόμη γενεὰ οὗτός ἐστιν ἀπὸ τοῦ πρώτου, Philo, vit. Moys. i. § 2).
b. metaphorically, a race of men very like each other in endowments, pursuits, character; and especially in a bad sense a perverse race: Matthew 17:17; Mark 9:19; Luke 9:41; Luke 16:8; [Acts 2:40].
3. the whole multitude of men living at the same time: Matthew 24:34; Mark 13:30; Luke 1:48 (πᾶσαι αἱ γενεαί); Luke 21:32; Philippians 2:15; used especially of the Jewish race living at one and the same period: Matthew 11:16; Matthew 12:39, 41f, 45; Matthew 16:4; Matthew 23:36; Mark 8:12, 38; Luke 11:29f, 32, 50; Luke 17:25; Acts 13:36; Hebrews 3:10; ἄνθρωποι τῆς γενεᾶς ταύτης, Luke 7:31; ἄνδρες τῆς γεν. ταύ., Luke 11:31; τὴν δὲ γενεὰν αὐτοῦ τίς διηγήσεται, who can describe the wickedness of the present generation, Acts 8:33 (from Isaiah 53:8 Sept.) [but cf. Meyer, at the passage].
4. an age (i. e. the time ordinarily occupied by each successive generation), the space of from 30 to 33 years (Herodotus 2, 142, and others; Heraclitus in Plutarch, def. orac. c. 11), or ὁ χρόνος, ἐν ᾧ γεννῶντα παρέχει τὸν ἐξ αὐτοῦ γεγεννημένον ὁ γεννήσας (Plutarch, the passage cited); in the N. T. common in plural: Ephesians 3:5 [Winers Grammar, § 31, 9 a.; Buttmann, 186 (161)]; παρῳχημέναις γενεαῖς in ages gone by, Acts 14:16; ἀπὸ τῶν γενεῶν for ages, since the generations began, Colossians 1:26; ἐκ γενεῶν ἀρχαίων from the generations of old, from ancient times down, Acts 15:21; εἰς γενεὰς γενεῶν unto generations of generations, through all ages, forever (a phrase which assumes that the longer ages are made up of shorter; see αἰών, 1 a.): Luke 1:50 R L (דּוֹרִים לְדוֹר, Isaiah 51:8); εἰς γενεὰς κ. γενεάς unto generations and generations, ibid. T Tr WH equivalent to וָדוֹר לְדוֹר, Psalm 89:2; Isaiah 34:17; very often in the Sept.; [add, εἰς πάσας τὰς γενεὰς τοῦ αἰῶνος τῶν αἰώνων, Ephesians 3:21, cf. Ellicott at the passage] (γενεά is used of a century in Genesis 15:16, cf. Knobel at the passage, and on the senses of the word see the full remarks of Keim, iii. 206 [v. 245 English translation]).
Examples
Matthew 11
11 “Assuredly, I say to you, among those born of women there has not risen one greater than John the Baptist; but he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. 12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force. 13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. 14 And if you are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who is to come. 15 He who has ears to hear, let him hear!
16 “But to what shall I liken this generation? It is like children sitting in the marketplaces and calling to their companions, 17 and saying:
‘We played the flute for you,
And you did not dance;
We mourned to you,
And you did not [b]lament.’
18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘He has a demon.’ 19 The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Look, a glutton and a [c]winebibber, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ But wisdom is justified by her [d]children.”
Woe to the Impenitent Cities
20 Then He began to rebuke the cities in which most of His mighty works had been done, because they did not repent: 21 “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 22 But I say to you, it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in the day of judgment than for you. 23 And you, Capernaum, who[e] are exalted to heaven, will be brought down to Hades; for if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. 24 But I say to you that it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment than for you.”The Messianic Age was initiated at the Advent of the Messiah and was fully instituted at His return in A. D. 70 when the Old was abolished forever.
The "new heaven and earth" pertained to the things of that age that was then ABOUT TO come. It was the coming of the New Covenant. The old heaven and earth were the things of the Old Covenant--the Temple and the holy city. Jesus spoke of these two when He taught about the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.
Matthew 12: "whoever speaks against the Holyh Spirit will not be foregiven, either in THIS age or in the age ABOUT TO COME." The New Covenant age, the new heaven and earth, were about to come in that day.
Read on in Revelation through chapter 22. There, as in chapter 1, John is given the timing. He was shown those things which were to SHORTLY take place (Rev. 1:1, 22:6). The TIME was NEAR--in his own day. That is why he was told to NOT seal up the vision. It was about to be revealed.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Nonsense. The new covenant was ushered in and the old covenant was abolished forever when Jesus died on the cross. That is when the old covenant was made obsolete, not in 70 AD. And He did not return in 70 AD. You are blinded by false preterist doctrine.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
This is pure, absolute nonsense.
The new heavens and new earth will be ushered in when Jesus comes and renews the current heavens and earth by fire.
2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
Peter was clearly NOT talking about the end of the old covenant and beginning of the new covenant here.
Do you just ignore this verse...
Revelation 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;
The book of Revelation is not a preterist book about things only relating to 70 AD as you imagine. It is a book about Jesus and His church and the enemies of Jesus and His church and about things that occur between the first and future second coming of Christ.
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Matthew 10:23 (KJV) But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come. [the verse is saying "till the Son of man ACCOMPANY you]
Come is defined - accompany, appear, bring, come, enter, fall out, go, grow, × light, × next, pass, resort, be set. G2064
Even though Christ left this earth when He died, He had promised before leaving them that He would always be with them through the Comforter/Spirit He would send to them. Jesus would come to them through His Spirit. They would still have cities of Israel who must hear the gospel preached, but until the Holy Spirit was sent to be in them they did not understand; after receiving the Holy Spirit they knew the Son of man was with them, accompanying them through His Spirit as they finished the task of preaching the gospel.
John 14:16-18 (KJV) And I will pray the Father, and he sha l give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
Once the disciples received the Holy Spirit they would know the Son of man had come just as He said He would, through His Holy Spirit who would never leave them.
John 16:7 (KJV) Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
John 16:13 (KJV) Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Hebrews 13:5 (KJV) Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
"Do YOU Jusat ignore these verses:
John was shown those things which were to SHORTLY take place; the time was NEAR (Rev. 1:1, 3; 22:6, 10) THAT establishes the entire time frame of John's vision--in involved those things which were to SOON take place--in HIS day. The time was NEAR. Again, this deals with timing--you ignore ALL the timing because it contradicts your beliefs.
Let's also consider Revelation 1:19 in light of that clear timing. Where does John indicate that the "things which shall be hereafter (in other words, the things he was currently being shown!) would happen thousands of years in the future. How is that SHORTLY or NEAR. It cannot be. At the time of this verse, John had already been shown things and was even then seeing things. After the things he had already be shown and the things he was then seeing, he would be shown more things. That involved the rest of the vision after that point! It was future to him--not future to US.
Furthermore, Revelation 1:19 should be rendered as "Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which are ABOUT TO BE hereafter; The Greek word "mello" appears here. It means about to. It is not translated because the translators did not like what it indicated so they rendered it as a simple future. The things which were to come "hereafter" were ABOUT TO happen--in John's day. That fits the entire time frame of the vision that John was given--SHORTLY, NEAR.
You've shown in another reply that you understand how the word "see" can mean visibly or mentally. See in this verse is eido which means the some standing here would not die before understanding the Son of man coming in His Kingdom. After receiving the Spirit, the disciples would understand that Christ came in His Kingdom. But His Kingdom is not of this world, cannot be observed, and is within (or as some translations say 'among') you.
Matthew 16:28 (KJV) Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
I've already remarked on this and won't do so again now.
I'll try to continue this later tonight or tomorrow.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
So, we should just ignore Revelation 1:19 which says he was told to write things about the past, about current things and about things that would happen from then on up until the return of Christ and the things that accompany it, which unquestionably has not yet occurred?
The time for what was near exactly? Keep in mind that he was told to write about the past, about current things and about things that would happen from then on up until the return of Christ? John wrote about Christ's birth and ascension (Rev 12:1,5). Was the time for that near?
I ignore nothing. Your false accusations mean nothing.
You obviously don't believe that the thousand years of Revelation 20 is literal. As an Amillennialist, I don't, either. But, what period of time do you think that represents exactly? Do you think the thousand years only represents a short period of time? If so, that would be a very strange way of figuratively referring to a short amount of time.
No idea what you're trying to say. Hereafter means from the time after the things he wrote about that were happening currently to the future return of Christ. It does not give any indication one way or another of how long that period of time would be.
LOL. What in the world are you talking about here? It's not talking about when he would be shown things, but when things would happen that he would be writing about after that verse.
LOL. Hello? He was told to write things about the past, which He did in Revelation 12 when He wrote about the birth and ascension of Christ and as he did in Revelation 2 and 3 when talking about things people in those churches had done in the past. And he was told to write about things happening at the time and then about things that would happen after his time up until the return of Christ, which hasn't happened yet. No matter what you do, you can't convince me or anyone with discernment that Jesus already came. Are you a full preterist?
LOL. The word mello does not have to be used to refer to something that is about to shortly happen.
It is used in this verse...
Matthew 11:14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for (mello) to come.
This was Jesus talking about John the Baptist as being the Elijah to come that Malachi prophesied about in Malachi 4:5-6. But, John the Baptist didn't come until about 400 years or so after he was prophesied to come. So, his coming was NOT near when it was prophesied that he was going to come.
By the way, you didn't comment on the scripture I showed regarding the new heavens and new earth (2 Peter 3:10-13). Why not? Let's discuss that passage and why it does not support your contention that the new heavens and new earth relate to the new covenant.
"Matthew 10:23 (KJV) But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come. [the verse is saying "till the Son of man ACCOMPANY you]A"
WHAT???????????? That is ridiculous. The word in the Greek is ELTHE (2 person aor. subj.) from ERXOMAI (to COME). It occurs 32 times in that form in the NT. It is always rendered as "COME." Matthew 10:23 is one of them! It is properly rendered as "until the Son of Man COMES." Do you intentionally dig around to find some way to make a verse say what you want it to? Is that proper exegesis?
John 14:16-18 (KJV) And I will pray the Father, and he sha l give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
Let's back up to the beginning of the chapter. Jesus comforts them by telling THEM that although He was LEAVING them, He would COME (same word as 14:18) again and would take THEM to Himself. He didn't leave them "orphans" because He left the Comforter for when He was with the Father. He had to go away before the Comforter could come. He would come again to THEM--in their lifetime. In THEIR generation (Matthew 24:34).
erxomai (to come) occurs 632x in the NT. The VAST majority of those times, it is translated COME/comes/came/arrived!
The only rendering of erxomai as "accompany" (*out of 632 occasions!!!!!) is found in the NIV in John 19:39. ALL other translations use some form of "come." But even with the NIV rendering, there is the concept of COMING. In other words, it is someone coming with someone else. That is nowhere present in Matthew 10:23. Why do you feel that you need to find an extremely rare rendering in Matthew 10:23? Do you not like what the verse blatantly says so you look high and low to make it say something else? Is that being honest with the Word?
ScottA
Well-Known Member
They didn't know everything.
However, the general thrust of scripture speaks of and indicates a beginning and an end--time no longer, and the elements of this world destroyed.
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up (2 Peter 3:10).
But well beyond that description, this world is not the kingdom, and where there shall be new heavens and earth, this "world" is a mere manifestation by God only for "a time, times, and half a time."That is not what eidon means. It means in the Greek "to see" or "to perceive." Where are you getting "mentally" from? They were to SEE/PERCEIVE His coming in His kingdom to THEM--in THEIR lifetime. They were to "see/perceive" that He had COME in the signs He had told them to watch for. Jesus already told them that they would see him COMING; why did they need to come to some "understanding" about it? They already understood. When He came in judgment in A. D. 70, they saw the evidence of it--the destruction of the Temple and the holy city.
Jesus clearly told those disciples right there with Him that some of THEM would live to see Him--COMING IN HIS KINGDOM. And they did. And the "tribes of the land," (the Jews), seeing their "house" (Temple) and their beautiful city utterly destroyed, mourned because of Him!
God sustains and holds all things together by the word of His power, and in Him all things consist.
Some day He will release that control of the elements and they will burn, there is tremendous energies contained in all natural things God has made. Yes this world and the heavens will all burn, then comes the final judgment.
Now most people think of God as the Creator, and He is, but more specifically Christ created all things, and that is a stumbling stone to many. That Christ is the Creator and in Christ all the fullness of God dwells. And Christ the Son is uncreated as is God, as He is God.
Regarding the truth of all this some people are offended by Christ.
And we don't qualify ourselves to be numbered among His saints, God did that for us. That is another stumbling block for many,
Colossians 1
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother,
2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ who are in Colosse:
Grace to you and peace from God our Father [a]and the Lord Jesus Christ.
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or [e]principalities or [f]powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.
17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.
18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.
21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.
Some day He will release that control of the elements and they will burn, there is tremendous energies contained in all natural things God has made. Yes this world and the heavens will all burn, then comes the final judgment.
Now most people think of God as the Creator, and He is, but more specifically Christ created all things, and that is a stumbling stone to many. That Christ is the Creator and in Christ all the fullness of God dwells. And Christ the Son is uncreated as is God, as He is God.
Regarding the truth of all this some people are offended by Christ.
And we don't qualify ourselves to be numbered among His saints, God did that for us. That is another stumbling block for many,
Colossians 1
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother,
2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ who are in Colosse:
Grace to you and peace from God our Father [a]and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Their Faith in Christ
3 We give thanks to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you, 4 since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and of your love for all the saints; 5 because of the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, of which you heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel, 6 which has come to you, as it has also in all the world, and is bringing forth [b]fruit, as it is also among you since the day you heard and knew the grace of God in truth; 7 as you also learned from Epaphras, our dear fellow servant, who is a faithful minister of Christ on your behalf, 8 who also declared to us your love in the Spirit.Preeminence of Christ
9 For this reason we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; 10 that you may walk worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing Him, being fruitful in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God; 11 strengthened with all might, according to His glorious power, for all patience and longsuffering with joy; 12 giving thanks to the Father who has qualified us to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in the light. 13 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and [c]conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, 14 in whom we have redemption [d]through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or [e]principalities or [f]powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.
17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.
18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.
Reconciled in Christ
19 For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell, 20 and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.
Jesus did COME to them! Through His Spirit! Which is why He promises He will be with us always! When one possesses the Spirit of Christ, they have entered the Kingdom of God and spiritually they shall always be with Him and He with us. We see with understanding not physical sight, God in us when we have the Spirit of Christ, Who is God, within us!
1 Corinthians 6:17 (KJV) But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
John 17:20-23 (KJV) Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
John 3:6 (KJV) That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
When we have the Spirit of Christ within, we have Christ in and with us, always our companion and guide He (Christ through His Spirit) shall never leaven nor forsake us. He will, through His Spirit accompany us throughout life until we are bodily resurrected immortal & incorruptible when the last/seventh trumpet sounds that Christ has BODILY returned to us again.
Ephesians 1:13-14 (KJV) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
John 4:24 (KJV) God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
John 10:30 (KJV) I and my Father are one.
John 14:7-9 (KJV) If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
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