When did Daniel 7:13-14 happen?

[Marty fox]

Daniel 7:13-14
13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

Some Christians think that this is in our future but I believe that the bible shows us that it happened on the day of Jesus accention and it was the same time as Revelation 12:5-10


5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. 6 The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.

7 Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8 But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:

“Now have come the salvation and the power
and the kingdom of our God,
and the authority of his Messiah.
For the accuser of our brothers and sisters,
who accuses them before our God day and night,
has been hurled down.

Notice that in both sets of verses that Jesus receives His authority and power that shows that they happened at the same time.

Hebrews 10:12-13 confirms the timing of this when Jesus sat down at the right hand of the Father when He presented Himself to the Father as our one time sacrificial Lamb.

12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 and since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool.

And when did Jesus say that He would sit at the right hand of the Father?

Matthew 26:63-64
63 But Jesus remained silent.

The high priest said to him, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Messiah, the Son of God.”

64 “You have said so,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

Yes after His death and resurrection

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Daniel 7:13-14
13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

Some Christians think that this is in our future but I believe that the bible shows us that it happened on the day of Jesus accention and it was the same time as Revelation 12:5-10


5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. 6 The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.

7 Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8 But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:

“Now have come the salvation and the power
and the kingdom of our God,
and the authority of his Messiah.
For the accuser of our brothers and sisters,
who accuses them before our God day and night,
has been hurled down.

Notice that in both sets of verses that Jesus receives His authority and power that shows that they happened at the same time.

Hebrews 10:12-13 confirms the timing of this when Jesus sat down at the right hand of the Father when He presented Himself to the Father as our one time sacrificial Lamb.

12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 and since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool.

And when did Jesus say that He would sit at the right hand of the Father?

Matthew 26:63-64
63 But Jesus remained silent.

The high priest said to him, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Messiah, the Son of God.”

64 “You have said so,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

Yes after His death and resurrection

I agree with you. Note the similarities between Daniel 7:13-14 and Ephesians 1:19-23.

Daniel 7:13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

Ephesians 1:19 and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is the same as the mighty strength 20 he exerted when he raised Christ from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, 21 far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. 22 And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, 23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.

Both passages speak of Jesus ascending to heaven and being in the Father's presence there. Both passages talk about Him being giving authority and power at that time. Both passages talk about His kingdom lasting forever from that time on. No one would deny that Ephesians 1:19-23 is about His ascension, so why would they deny that Daniel 7:13-14 is about His ascension when that passage clearly says the same things that Ephesians 1:19-23 does?

 

[Marty fox]

I agree with you. Note the similarities between Daniel 7:13-14 and Ephesians 1:19-23.

Daniel 7:13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

Ephesians 1:19 and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is the same as the mighty strength 20 he exerted when he raised Christ from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, 21 far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. 22 And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, 23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.

Both passages speak of Jesus ascending to heaven and being in the Father's presence there. Both passages talk about Him being giving authority and power at that time. Both passages talk about His kingdom lasting forever from that time on. No one would deny that Ephesians 1:19-23 is about His ascension, so why would they deny that Daniel 7:13-14 is about His ascension when that passage clearly says the same things that Ephesians 1:19-23 does?

Yes how true but some will.

Good scripture to add to this post thanks

 

[Truth7t7]

Daniel 7:13-14
13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

Some Christians think that this is in our future but I believe that the bible shows us that it happened on the day of Jesus accention and it was the same time as Revelation 12:5-10


5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. 6 The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.

7 Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8 But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:

“Now have come the salvation and the power
and the kingdom of our God,
and the authority of his Messiah.
For the accuser of our brothers and sisters,
who accuses them before our God day and night,
has been hurled down.

Notice that in both sets of verses that Jesus receives His authority and power that shows that they happened at the same time.

Hebrews 10:12-13 confirms the timing of this when Jesus sat down at the right hand of the Father when He presented Himself to the Father as our one time sacrificial Lamb.

12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 and since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool.

And when did Jesus say that He would sit at the right hand of the Father?

Matthew 26:63-64
63 But Jesus remained silent.

The high priest said to him, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Messiah, the Son of God.”

64 “You have said so,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

Yes after His death and resurrection

Daniel 7:9-10 depicts the second coming and final judgement (The Books Were Open)

You suggest Daniel 7:13 jumps back in time 2,000 years to the ascension, I disagree

You believe this took place at the ascension I disagree, Daniel states the Son of Man "Came" with the clouds of heaven, not "Goes" with the clouds of heaven as you believe and teach

Marty your complete assumption is destroyed with the word "Came" in the clouds of heaven, your ascension theory is "Gone"

"Future" (Second Coming Final Judgement)

In Love, Jesus Is The Lord

Daniel 7:9-10KJV
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

I see the second coming of the Lord in the heavens in Daniel 7:13, with Daniel 7:14 being a parallel teaching of Revelation 11:15, Jesus Kingdom for ever and ever after the second coming "Future"

Daniel 7:13-14KJV
13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

Revelation 11:15KJV
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

 

[Jay Ross]

Daniel 7:13-14
13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

Some Christians think that this is in our future but I believe that the bible shows us that it happened on the day of Jesus accention and it was the same time as Revelation 12:5-10


5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. 6 The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.

7 Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8 But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:

“Now have come the salvation and the power
and the kingdom of our God,
and the authority of his Messiah.
For the accuser of our brothers and sisters,
who accuses them before our God day and night,
has been hurled down.

Notice that in both sets of verses that Jesus receives His authority and power that shows that they happened at the same time.

Hebrews 10:12-13 confirms the timing of this when Jesus sat down at the right hand of the Father when He presented Himself to the Father as our one time sacrificial Lamb.

12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 and since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool.

And when did Jesus say that He would sit at the right hand of the Father?

Matthew 26:63-64
63 But Jesus remained silent.

The high priest said to him, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Messiah, the Son of God.”

64 “You have said so,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

Yes after His death and resurrection

I disagree with your reasoning.

Daniel 7:13-14 is still a near future event. Isaiah 24:21-22 tells us that Satan and the beasts and the Little Horn will be judged in heaven at the same time that the Kings of the earth will be judged on the earth and since the Six Bowl Judgement, i.e. Rev. 16:12-16, is a prelude to the time of Judgement of the Kings of the earth on the earth, and we have recently witnessed the signs and wonders performed by the three fowl frog like spirits that were seen right around the world as they were happening, the time that the Kings of the earth will be gathered at Armageddon for judgement will be in a little over four decades from when the frog like demons were seen on the little screen around the world.

Rev. 12:7-9 describes the same judgement as described in Isaiah 24:21-22.

After Daniel 7:11-12 happens, the Son of Man, i.e. Christ, is brought before the Ancient of Days and is given and a crown and dominion over all of the earth such that all the peoples of the earth should worship Him. It is at this time that God will establish His Everlasting Kingdom on the earth during the time of these kings of the earth.

Oh well, Marty, you are entitled to your theories, and if you are young enough, then you may live to see the time that God's Everlasting Kingdom is established on the earth.

Shalom

 

[covenantee]

Daniel 7:13-14
13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

Some Christians think that this is in our future but I believe that the bible shows us that it happened on the day of Jesus accention and it was the same time as Revelation 12:5-10


5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. 6 The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.

7 Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8 But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:

“Now have come the salvation and the power
and the kingdom of our God,
and the authority of his Messiah.
For the accuser of our brothers and sisters,
who accuses them before our God day and night,
has been hurled down.

Notice that in both sets of verses that Jesus receives His authority and power that shows that they happened at the same time.

Hebrews 10:12-13 confirms the timing of this when Jesus sat down at the right hand of the Father when He presented Himself to the Father as our one time sacrificial Lamb.

12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 and since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool.

And when did Jesus say that He would sit at the right hand of the Father?

Matthew 26:63-64
63 But Jesus remained silent.

The high priest said to him, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Messiah, the Son of God.”

64 “You have said so,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

Yes after His death and resurrection

Agreed. Also corroborates:

Daniel 2:44
And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Fulfilled in the NT spiritual kingdom of God/heaven, which Christ established at His first coming during the days of the Roman Empire, the last of the four kingdoms described in the previous verses of Daniel 2.

 

[Jay Ross]

Fulfilled in the NT spiritual kingdom of God/heaven, which Christ established at His first coming during the days of the Roman Empire, the last of the four kingdoms described in the previous verses of Daniel 2.

But according to Isaiah and Jeremiah it will be desolated and devastated for a period of two ages, i.e. around 2,000 + years, during which time the Roman Empire existed but did not exercise any dominion over the land of Babylon. As such the Roman Empire is not the fourth Kingdom to exist that had dominion over the land of Babylon. The fourth "empire" to have dominion over the Land of Babylon was Iraq and that occurred after 1926 AD when France and Brittan established/recognised Iraq as having dominion before God as having dominion over the Land of Babylon. (Rev. 16:17-21)

The Roman Empire was acknowledged to have had dominion over Israel and as it followed the Babylon Empire, Medes/Persian Empire and the Greek Empire dominions which had dominion over Israel, it was also said to have had dominion over the Land of Babylon as a means to demonise the Roman Catholic Church which had great influence over the kingdoms in Europe as a means of breaking that control during the time of the reformation.

The fifth segment, i.e. the feet, of the Daniel 2 statue prophecy, is the Coalition of the Willing lead/orchestrated by the USA President. There were twenty nations that played their part in the invasion of Iraq, i.e. the Land of Babylon, from when it was invaded by the coalition of the willing in 2003 AD.

Many of the prophecies contained in the scriptures are still predominately hidden from people even today. I am certain that this particular understanding that the Roman Empire was the four segment of the Daniel 2 Statue prophecy is just one such example which obscures the real prophecy that is contained in scripture.

Shalom

 

[covenantee]

But according to Isaiah and Jeremiah it will be desolated and devastated for a period of two ages, i.e. around 2,000 + years, during which time the Roman Empire existed but did not exercise any dominion over the land of Babylon. As such the Roman Empire is not the fourth Kingdom to exist that had dominion over the land of Babylon. The fourth "empire" to have dominion over the Land of Babylon was Iraq and that occurred after 1926 AD when France and Brittan established/recognised Iraq as having dominion before God as having dominion over the Land of Babylon. (Rev. 16:17-21)

The Roman Empire was acknowledged to have had dominion over Israel and as it followed the Babylon Empire, Medes/Persian Empire and the Greek Empire dominions which had dominion over Israel, it was also said to have had dominion over the Land of Babylon as a means to demonise the Roman Catholic Church which had great influence over the kingdoms in Europe as a means of breaking that control during the time of the reformation.

The fifth segment, i.e. the feet, of the Daniel 2 statue prophecy, is the Coalition of the Willing lead/orchestrated by the USA President. There were twenty nations that played their part in the invasion of Iraq, i.e. the Land of Babylon, from when it was invaded by the coalition of the willing in 2003 AD.

Many of the prophecies contained in the scriptures are still predominately hidden from people even today. I am certain that this particular understanding that the Roman Empire was the four segment of the Daniel 2 Statue prophecy is just one such example which obscures the real prophecy that is contained in scripture.

Shalom

Where in Daniel 2 or Daniel 7 (or anywhere in the entire book of Daniel) is it claimed that the Roman Empire would have dominion over the land of Babylon, the empire of which fell to the Medo-Persians and ceased to exist centuries before the Roman Empire began?

 

[ewq1938]

Daniel 7:13-14
13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

Some Christians think that this is in our future but I believe that the bible shows us that it happened on the day of Jesus accention and it was the same time as Revelation 12:5-10

Dan 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
Dan 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
Dan 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
Dan 7:12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

Then this would have had to happen already but it hasn't. No ten horned beast kingdom has ruled the world. Similar language found in Revelation 13.

 

[Jay Ross]

Where in Daniel 2 or Daniel 7 (or anywhere in the entire book of Daniel) is it claimed that the Roman Empire would have dominion over the land of Babylon, the empire of which fell to the Medo-Persians and ceased to exist centuries before the Roman Empire began?

If you had read my post carefully, you will have noticed that I actually said that the Roman Empire did not have dominion over the Land of Babylon and as such it was not the legs of the Statue in the Daniel 2 prophecy.

Now if you had read my post you would have noticed that I said that Iraq was the fourth segment of the statue in the Daniel 2 Statue prophecy. I also said that the President of the USA was the king of the North that lead the Coalition of the Willing in 2003 to invade and have dominion over the land of Babylon. (Jeremiah 50-51)

The Seleucid Empire was a Greek state in Western Asia that existed during the Hellenistic Period from 312 BC to 63 BC when it come under the dominion of the Roman Empire. Around 120 BC, the Seleucid Empire Desolated and Devastated the Land of the Babylon. The Roman Empire did not have dominion over the actual land of Babylon as their was no profit in that land at that time for the Roman Empire. Although the Roman Empire sent an occupation army into the Land of Babylon, they returned empty handed as the land had no people living in it at that time.

If you had read my post then you would have noted that the Reformation players used the Daniel 2 Prophecy as well as the Daniel 7 prophecy re the beasts and the Little Horn to demonise the Roman Catholic Church to justify their breaking away from the political power of the Pope over much of Europe at that time.

I believe that your argument/disagreement is not with me as I have accurately quoted the scriptures to support what I had posted that the Roman Empire was not the fourth segment of Daniel's statue prophecy.

Shalom

 

[covenantee]

If you had read my post carefully, you will have noticed that I actually said that the Roman Empire did not have dominion over the Land of Babylon and as such it was not the legs of the Statue in the Daniel 2 prophecy.

There is virtually complete unanimity among recognized pre-19th century Christian exegetes that the legs of iron represent the historic Roman Empire.

Explain your position with verbatim quotes of Scripture verses.

 

[covenantee]

If you had read my post then you would have noted that the Reformation players used the Daniel 2 Prophecy as well as the Daniel 7 prophecy re the beasts and the Little Horn to demonise the Roman Catholic Church to justify their breaking away from the political power of the Pope over much of Europe at that time.

God raised up, inspired, and empowered His Reformers to reclaim His True Church from centuries of spiritual darkness and oppression under the apostasized papacy.

By His grace and mercy, they were successful.

Their battle was spiritual, not political. There are no politics in Luther's 95 Theses.

Did that make God a demonizer?

 

[Jay Ross]

There is virtually complete unanimity among recognized pre-19th century Christian exegetes that the legs of iron represent the historic Roman Empire.

I agree that the recognised pre 19th century Christian scholars got it wrong. I also agree that the Roman Empire is not mention in the Book of Daniel at all

As I have provided scripture references that back up my point of view, it seems pointless for me to explain my position further.

Good day.

 

[Jay Ross]

God raised up, inspired, and empowered His Reformers to reclaim His True Church from centuries of spiritual darkness and oppression under the apostasized papacy.

By His grace and mercy, they were successful.

Their battle was spiritual, not political. There are no politics in Luther's 95 Theses.

Did that make God a demonizer?

It seem that you have a problem by my statement that the RCC was demonised by the Reformer players at that time. The German Princes were happy to misuse scriptures to demonise the RCC in order to rebel against the Pope and break his pollical power over Europe at that time.

You can take it or leave it. I have no need to explain myself further to you.

 

[covenantee]

I agree that the recognised pre 19th century Christian scholars got it wrong. I also agree that the Roman Empire is not mention in the Book of Daniel at all

As I have provided scripture references that back up my point of view, it seems pointless for me to explain my position further.

Good day.

I agree that dispensational futurism is a modernist cult of delusional fallacy. I also agree that the Roman Empire is represented in Daniel 2, and that Christ came during its Pax Romana and established His Kingdom.

You apparently don't understand what a Scripture reference consists of.

 

[covenantee]

It seem that you have a problem by my statement that the RCC was demonised by the Reformer players at that time. The German Princes were happy to misuse scriptures to demonise the RCC in order to rebel against the Pope and break his pollical power over Europe at that time.

You can take it or leave it. I have no need to explain myself further to you.

It seems that you have a problem understanding the spiritual nature of the Reformation. That is due in no small part to dispensational futurism's fervent embrace of the futurism contrived by the counter-reformation of the historical apostate papacy.

Which Reformers were German Princes?

 

[Timtofly]

I believe that your argument/disagreement is not with me as I have accurately quoted the scriptures to support what I had posted that the Roman Empire was not the fourth segment of Daniel's statue prophecy.

This is misleading. The Roman Empire extended all the way to Persia. It did control Iraq. It was not that hard as the land was a wilderness. There was trade between Rome and India.

The Gospel at the time did go all the way to India. It was incorporated into Hinduism, unfortunately.

Alexander had conquered Persia, but the Seleucid kingdom could not maintain control. Alexander's gain was short lived. Rome absorbed Greek controlled lands. Rome did not absorb Persia, but since the Euphrates river was an important trade route, Rome did control the area associated with the river.

Speaking of which, people mention Assyria. Some even make the claim the Seleucid kingdom had Assyrian kings. It would have been the same way in the US if the settlers would have let some native Americans be governors of their own states. Obviously the Greeks did not have trust issues. Obviously did not learn that accepting gifts from rivals could be harmful. One Greek King even handed over his kingdom to Rome. Rome seemed to have convinced even the Assyrians they meant business, and Persia went back to the Persians.

Nineveh and Babylon were 2 Mesopotamia's versions of city states. They were only 300 miles apart and shared the same Euphrates river. When Babylon conquered Jerusalem it had absorbed Assyria, and obviously Assyrians still held power even under other empires. That included Babylon, the Medes and Persions, the Greeks, and probably even Rome, even though by that time, Nineveh itself had been buried under rubble. Babylon was still on the trade route between Rome and India.

Rome is the fourth Empire. Not sure why people don't try to place Assyria either. But Rome was an Empire, Assyria was not, during the time of Daniel's Statue. Assyria never controlled another, much less multiple kingdoms in a vast Empire after absorbed by Babylon. Rome covered most of Europe and the ME. That is why it represents 2 legs well. It was also a "divided" Empire with 2 major languages, Greek and Latin.

Rome was divided up eventually. This was represented by the 10 toes. There did not have to be a literal 10 kingdoms. If humans had had 12 toes, would it have been 12 kingdoms? Of course the Statue did not have to represent a normal human. It could have had 3 toes on each foot, representing 6 kingdoms. The point is the Reformation would represent another spread of the Gospel for hundreds of years all around the world. One does not have to wait until the Second Coming to complete this image prophecy.

At the Second Coming, the earth is going to drastically change any way. Revelation represents a post Second Coming set of geographical kingdoms. The map will not even look the same after the Second Coming.

 

[Jay Ross]

I agree that dispensational futurism is a modernist cult of delusional fallacy. I also agree that the Roman Empire is represented in Daniel 2, and that Christ came during its Pax Romana and established His Kingdom.

You apparently don't understand what a Scripture reference consists of.

It seems that you have a problem understanding the spiritual nature of the Reformation. That is due in no small part to dispensational futurism's fervent embrace of the futurism contrived by the counter-reformation of the historical apostate papacy.

Which Reformers were German Princes?

Are you a Preterist? You seem to have a warped understanding of Bible Prophecy. It seems to me that you have a delusional bent against futuristic prophetic understanding that accepts that not all End Time Prophecies has been fulfilled yet.

Now in 1926 AD we saw that the Land of Babylon was remembered once more before God as is prophesied in Rev. 16:17-21. Now in that passage "Seismos" has the meaning of "turmoil" which occurred twice during the 20th century. Because the context of this Greek word has been poorly translated by the translators into English as "earthquake" instead of "turmoil" people have missed the signs that this Seventh Bowl of Wrath tell us will happen during this particular portion of the End Time prophecies.

We have already seen the seventh Bowl of God's Wrath poured out upon the earth during the last century, but many have not been able to put two and two together to see that this prophecy was fulfilled during the Twentieth Century.

Sadly you will come back not realising that what I have said is true.

Good Day, Sir

 

[Jay Ross]

This is misleading. The Roman Empire extended all the way to Persia. It did control Iraq. It was not that hard as the land was a wilderness. There was trade between Rome and India.

The Gospel at the time did go all the way to India. It was incorporated into Hinduism, unfortunately.

Alexander had conquered Persia, but the Seleucid kingdom could not maintain control. Alexander's gain was short lived. Rome absorbed Greek controlled lands. Rome did not absorb Persia, but since the Euphrates river was an important trade route, Rome did control the area associated with the river.

Speaking of which, people mention Assyria. Some even make the claim the Seleucid kingdom had Assyrian kings. It would have been the same way in the US if the settlers would have let some native Americans be governors of their own states. Obviously the Greeks did not have trust issues. Obviously did not learn that accepting gifts from rivals could be harmful. One Greek King even handed over his kingdom to Rome. Rome seemed to have convinced even the Assyrians they meant business, and Persia went back to the Persians.

Nineveh and Babylon were 2 Mesopotamia's versions of city states. They were only 300 miles apart and shared the same Euphrates river. When Babylon conquered Jerusalem it had absorbed Assyria, and obviously Assyrians still held power even under other empires. That included Babylon, the Medes and Persions, the Greeks, and probably even Rome, even though by that time, Nineveh itself had been buried under rubble. Babylon was still on the trade route between Rome and India.

Rome is the fourth Empire. Not sure why people don't try to place Assyria either. But Rome was an Empire, Assyria was not, during the time of Daniel's Statue. Assyria never controlled another, much less multiple kingdoms in a vast Empire after absorbed by Babylon. Rome covered most of Europe and the ME. That is why it represents 2 legs well. It was also a "divided" Empire with 2 major languages, Greek and Latin.

Rome was divided up eventually. This was represented by the 10 toes. There did not have to be a literal 10 kingdoms. If humans had had 12 toes, would it have been 12 kingdoms? Of course the Statue did not have to represent a normal human. It could have had 3 toes on each foot, representing 6 kingdoms. The point is the Reformation would represent another spread of the Gospel for hundreds of years all around the world. One does not have to wait until the Second Coming to complete this image prophecy.

At the Second Coming, the earth is going to drastically change any way. Revelation represents a post Second Coming set of geographical kingdoms. The map will not even look the same after the Second Coming.

It is Time to fly away from you and your justifications for your understanding. Some may be on the money, but really it is just your opinion on what still remains seal to you.

 

[covenantee]

Are you a Preterist? You seem to have a warped understanding of Bible Prophecy. It seems to me that you have a delusional bent against futuristic prophetic understanding that accepts that not all End Time Prophecies has been fulfilled yet.

Now in 1926 AD we saw that the Land of Babylon was remembered once more before God as is prophesied in Rev. 16:17-21. Now in that passage "Seismos" has the meaning of "turmoil" which occurred twice during the 20th century. Because the context of this Greek word has been poorly translated by the translators into English as "earthquake" instead of "turmoil" people have missed the signs that this Seventh Bowl of Wrath tell us will happen during this particular portion of the End Time prophecies.

We have already seen the seventh Bowl of God's Wrath poured out upon the earth during the last century, but many have not been able to put two and two together to see that this prophecy was fulfilled during the Twentieth Century.

Sadly you will come back not realising that what I have said is true.

Good Day, Sir

I'm not a futurist.

I serve a God of fulfillments.

Futurism does not. It is the spawn of apostasy.

From Revelation 16:18 in the Greek:

4578 [e]
seismos
σεισμὸς
an earthquake
N-NMS

Without exception, every English version translates the Greek as "earthquake".

Your "bible" has been corrupted.

What you have said is unfulfilled unprovable private opinionized speculation, conjecture, presumption and fantasy.

It is alien to historical Christian orthodoxy.

It is the antithesis of "true".