When did the universal Church first mentioned in 110AD stop being universal?

[epostle1]

well said, imo. I might argue that "Moreover, God is NEVER okay with a person acting as judge by condemning someone who is living by faith" seems to reserve some judgement that you might make, depending upon whether you have deemed them to be "living by faith" or not, and so it fails, because pretty much everything is debatable; for every "if they aren't with us, they are against us" there is a "if they are not against us, they are with us" passage in the Bible, which is really what i mean to bring out. Iow the Spanish Inquisition can make a case for "acting in faith," too.
Well imo it is in this judging that we come under judgement. What is the charge here? How have i sinned against you?

No. Relax. It was a joke.

MYTH OF THE SPANISH INQUISITION It's not Monty Python

 

[Wormwood]

Ugh, I wrote a long reply but it disappeared . Ill try again at a later time. :)

 

[bbyrd009]

well bummer. i note this software "autosaves" quite frequently; there should be some way to retrieve? not sure, though.

 

[bbyrd009]

No. Relax. It was a joke.

MYTH OF THE SPANISH INQUISITION It's not Monty Python

telling me i am going to hell is a joke? ok.

and i have no doubt that the SI is vastly dramatized, too. So the Crusaders, then. I mean, let's address the point, perhaps, rather than run from it.

 

[tom55]

Well, as I mentioned previously, some are right and some are wrong. I do believe there are Christians who are wrong on certain issues that I believe the Scriptures speak clearly concerning. In fact, most of the NT is written as correction and instruction about Christians who had false ideas or behaviors that were inconsistent with their calling.

Again, it is not for us to condemn such people. We simply hold to our convictions on the issue and lovingly try to use the Scriptures to help them see their error. If they are genuine believers who are humble and desire to know the truth, as we see in the book of Acts where Apollos is corrected by Pricilla and Aquilla, hopefully they will recognize their error and change. Its why we discuss and have dialogue. Of course, not all will be convinced, and in such cases, we just give them grace as we desire grace.

Of course, some issues are core matters that are "essential" to our faith. When someone diverts from the truth in these areas, we just break fellowship. We see these issues written about in Galatians, 1 John and elsewhere. in fact, the church has labored for 2,000 years to make known what are core doctrines of the faith. In my view, there are core doctrines, important doctrines and debatable doctrines. A person can be a Christian but be mistaken on an important doctrine. Or maybe Christians disagree on debatable doctrines that are not that significant. But if someone diverts from an essential issue of the faith, they would not be considered a Christian. After all, labels have meaning. When I say, "Male" then it brings some core concepts to mind. Now certainly males can have different hair lengths and builds, but certain core factors distinguish a male from a female. Anyway, I won't go on about it. Im sure you get the point.

Ill have to address your other comments later. I have some chores to knock out! :)

Who gets to decide who is right and who is wrong?

Scripture speaks clearly to who? If Scripture is so clear then why are there thousands of different churches teaching different "truths"?

 

[tom55]

In its early years the Church was small geographically and numerically. For roughly the first 100 years the Church was made up exclusively of Jews in the area of Jerusalem. But as the Church began to grow and spread across the Roman Empire it incorporated Jews, Gentiles, rich, poor, Romans, freemen, and even slaves. By the third century one out of ten people in the Roman Empire was a Catholic. Just as the word Trinity was appropriated to describe the nature of God, so the term catholic was appropriated to describe the nature of Christ’s body, the Church, from the 2nd Century until today.

As mentioned earlier St. Ignatius is the first to use the word catholic in reference to the Church. Another early instance of the word catholic is associated with St. Polycarp, Bishop of Smyrna: “The Church of God which sojourns in Smyrna, to the Church of God which sojourns in Philomelium, and to all the dioceses of the holy and Catholic Church in every place” Also it was written: “When Polycarp had finished his prayer, in which he remembered everyone with whom he had ever been acquainted . . . and the whole Catholic Church throughout the world.” AND “Now with the Apostles and all the just [Polycarp] is glorifying God and the Father Almighty, and he is blessing our Lord Jesus Christ, the Savior of our souls, and the Shepherd of the Catholic Church throughout the world”

Clearly, thru historical writings of the Apostolic and Church Fathers we can see that early in the second century Christians regularly use the word catholic as an established description of the Church. From the second century on thru today we see the term catholic being used consistently by the theologians and writers. One can easily conclude that catholic was a very early description of the Church and was probably used by the apostles themselves.

In the 4th century St. Augustine, relaying the tradition of the early Church, minced no words asserting the importance and wide-spread use of the term catholic when he wrote: “We must hold to the Christian religion and to communication in her Church which is Catholic, and which is called Catholic not only by her own members but even by all her enemies” (The True Religion, 7, 12). And again, “[T]he very name of Catholic, which, not without reason, belongs to this Church alone, in the face of so many heretics, so much so that, although all heretics want to be called Catholic, when a stranger inquires where the Catholic Church meets, none of the heretics would dare to point out his own basilica or house” (Against the Letter of Mani called “The Foundation”, 4, 5).

Some people today try to make a distinction between Catholic with a capital “C” and catholic with a small “c”, but such a distinction is a recent development and unheard of in the early Church.

 

[epostle1]

Clearly, thru historical writings of the Apostolic and Church Fathers we can see that early in the second century Christians regularly use the word catholic as an established description of the Church. From the second century on thru today we see the term catholic being used consistently by the theologians and writers. One can easily conclude that catholic was a very early description of the Church and was probably used by the apostles themselves.

It's in primitive form in Scripture.

from a previous post:

Rom. 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is proclaimed (KATAnggeletai) in all the world.(en HOLO to kosmo)

Acts 9:31 "So the church throughout all Judea and Galilee and Sama'ria had peace and was built up; and walking in the fear of the Lord and in the comfort of the Holy Spirit it was multiplied.

There the words "church throughout all" is translated from the Greek words "Ecclesia KATAHOLIS"

Thus the word KATAHOLIS or KATAHOLICOS or Catholic in English originated from Scripture - Romans 1:8, and Acts 9:31

 

[bbyrd009]

Who gets to decide who is right and who is wrong?

you have a conscience, and it obviously has not been seared. If you seek where you agree with a man, rather than where you might disagree, i think this "deciding" issue might resolve itself for what it is, as difficult as that can be, and as tempting as it is to desire resolution where there can be none.

 

[bbyrd009]

Scripture speaks clearly to who? If Scripture is so clear then why are there thousands of different churches teaching different "truths"?

So that their hearts may be laid open to you, their joints and marrow divided. See how the term "church" is appropriated here, when you are the Church. Scripture indeed speaks clearly, in how you interpret It. Those truths end up being biases, if Love believes all things. Catholic Heretics are the most potent source of truth going, imo.

 

[mjrhealth]

Thus the word KATAHOLIS or KATAHOLICOS or Catholic in English originated from Scripture - Romans 1:8, and Acts 9:31

So is satan, devil, liar, its funny how teh church who claims to be the true church has to lie and deceive to do it, Now if she was tee true church well,
Squirming and worming, soory but as I said before your church pails into insignificance when compared to our Lords church.

Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked

right to the point.

Seek Him , Jesus before its to late.

 

[BreadOfLife]

So is satan, devil, liar, its funny how teh church who claims to be the true church has to lie and deceive to do it, Now if she was tee true church well,
Squirming and worming, soory but as I said before your church pails into insignificance when compared to our Lords church.

Can yoo point me to the "Lord's TRUE Church"??
Which one of the 50,000 or so disjointed, perpetually-splintering Protestant sects is it??

This should be easy enough for you to do . . .

 

[bbyrd009]

Who gets to decide who is right and who is wrong?

"Seek your own salvation..."
"You reap what you sow..."

that guy, imo.

 

[mjrhealth]

Can yoo point me to the "Lord's TRUE Church"??
Which one of the 50,000 or so disjointed, perpetually-splintering Protestant sects is it??

Really hard for you because

Rom_8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

And you dont beleeve in him.

Eph 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

You have no interest in the truth you love your church and its doctrines to much to seek it out. When you find Jesus you will find the truth and you will be set free, until than just another religious man.

Act_26:14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

Blind til his eyes where opened.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Really hard for you because

Rom_8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

And you dont beleeve in him.

Eph 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

You have no interest in the truth you love your church and its doctrines to much to seek it out. When you find Jesus you will find the truth and you will be set free, until than just another religious man.

Act_26:14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

Blind til his eyes where opened.

Sooooo, you CAN'T answer the question - is that it??

Jesus NEVER said that His Church was an "invisible" entity that cannot be counted.
In fact - He said just the opposite:
Matt. 5:14-15
“You are the light of the world. A city built on a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house.

This should be easy for you or any other non-Catholic to answer:
Which one of the 50,000 or so disjointed, perpetually-splintering Protestant sects is it??

 

[bbyrd009]

well, none of the above, although Lights can be found in any of them, even the RCC. Nice to see a Catholic trying to use Scripture, anyway, even if you got that all wrong.

 

[BreadOfLife]

well, none of the above, although Lights can be found in any of them, even the RCC. Nice to see a Catholic trying to use Scripture, anyway, even if you got that all wrong.

Really funny coming from a person who has NEVER been able to defend his position.

On several threads now, I have asked the following questions, which YOU have never been able to answer:
Can you point me to the "Lord's TRUE Church"??
Which one of the 50,000 or so disjointed, perpetually-splintering Protestant sects is it??

If you can't answer this, then your position is impotent . . .

 

[mjrhealth]

Jesus NEVER said that His Church was an "invisible" entity that cannot be counted.
In fact - He said just the opposite:

You see Christians, those who are in Him and you see His church, so blind.

If I was to point them to "your church" i would have to lie.

Oh and please take your arguement to teh JW's they have the same problem as you. They insist there church is His and will use that bible to prove it just like you.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You see Christians, those who are in Him and you see His church, so blind.

If I was to point them to "your church" i would have to lie.

Oh and please take your arguement to teh JW's they have the same problem as you. They insist there church is His and will use that bible to prove it just like you.

That's not an answer - it's a cop out. If I see an individual Christian - I don't see a Church. I just see a Lone Ranger. Christ gave HIS Church a hierarchy (Acts 1:20, 1 Cor. 12:28, 2 Thess. 2:15).

Of the 50,000 or so disjointed, perpetually-splintering Protestant sects - WHICH Church is HIS Church??
Here's a hint: He only built ONE (Matt. 16:18).

If you can't answer the question - just admit it and we'll move on.

 

[mjrhealth]

Here's a hint: He only built ONE (Matt. 16:18).

No He is building one, not yours, you are the one thyat is insisting it is, and you have no eveidence yet teh evidence found in the pages of history for even you tee see speaks volumes against your chruch.


Joh 9:39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
Joh 9:40 And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?
Joh 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

If you can't answer the question - just admit it and we'll move on.

We all have you just dont like it, thats your problem not ours.

 

[epostle1]

No He is building one, not yours, you are the one thyat is insisting it is, and you have no eveidence yet teh evidence found in the pages of history for even you tee see speaks volumes against your chruch.

Have you read any church history not printed by hate cults?

Time to level the playing field:

THE PROTESTANT INQUISITION

I. PROTESTANT INTOLERANCE: AN INTRODUCTION AND OVERVIEW
II. PROTESTANT DIVISIONS AND MUTUAL ANIMOSITIES
III. PLUNDER AS AN AGENT OF RELIGIOUS REVOLUTION
IV. SYSTEMATIC SUPPRESSION OF CATHOLICISM
V. VIOLENT RADICALISM AND THE PROTESTANT REVOLUTION
VI. DEATH AND TORTURE FOR CATHOLICS, PROTESTANT DISSIDENTS, AND JEWS
VII. PROTESTANT CENSORSHIP
BIBLIOGRAPHY

a well researched treatise citing Protestant and secular historians
THE PROTESTANT INQUISITION

mjrhealth, document your lies, or knock off the ignorant bigotry