When did the universal Church first mentioned in 110AD stop being universal?

[mjrhealth]

Anything that cannot be defended by Scripture is false - lile Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide.

Oh so by your own statement your whole religion is a lie, glad you finally discovred that, i was begining to worry over you. Not quiet true, cant worry over anyone, everman must make his choice and each will judge himself for his choosing.

 

[mjrhealth]

I agree with you: .... "the Church established by Jesus and the Apostles was indeed called The Catholic Church....".

Wel according to breadoflife if its not in the scripture its not true so your church is a lie.

 

[OzSpen]

There is only ONE Catholic Church made up of 20 Rites - the Roman or Latin Rite being ONE of them.
ALL are in communion as ONE Church. Now - there are several dissent groups that are not in communion with the Catholic Church.

As for there being 33,000 , 45,000 or 50,000 Protestant sects, let's just say there are 10,000 for sake of argument.
That's about 9,999 too many . . .

BreadOfLife,

That is not true.

David Barrett's World Christian Encyclopedia states that there are 242 Roman Catholic denominations. See: HERE.

Oz

 

[epostle1]

BreadOfLife,

That is not true.

David Barrett's World Christian Encyclopedia states that there are 242 Roman Catholic denominations. See: HERE.

Oz

since virtually all of these 23 western and smaller eastern rites are in union with the Pope , there is actually one Catholic Church, not 242 churches or denominations. Based on the encyclopedia's own definition of "denomination" the editors appear to be separating and counting by country which is how you get to 242 (or 238 countries plus 4) "denominations" of Roman Catholics.

The Catholic Church in Canada is not a different "denomination" from the Catholic Church in the U.S., which is not a different Catholic Church from the one in England, etc. If you search the available "World Christian Database" online, there is indeed one Catholic Church in the U.S.A., (see also Barrett, Encyclopedia, volume 1, page 783 for the U.S.A.) and in the world there are indeed 238 "Roman Catholic" denominations (for exactly 238 countries), i.e. one Catholic Church for each country. The same "counting by country" seems to be the case with some of the denominations in the other mega-blocs.

When dividing these "denominations" by country as they do, there are definitely some problems in figuring out the true total "denominations" since many of them are being counted more than once -- and in fact 241 times too much in the case of "Roman Catholic" denominations. Barrett's Encyclopedia states this explicitly:

“As a statistical unit in this Encyclopedia, a 'denomination' always refers to one single country. Thus the Roman Catholic Church, although a single organization, is described here as consisting of 236 denominations in the world's 238 countries.” (Barrett, et al, World Christian Encyclopedia, volume 1, page 27, in the "Glossary" under definition for "Denomination" [later updated to 242], emphasis added)

How dishonest...

http://www.philvaz.com/apologetics/a106.htm#Catholics

 

[mjrhealth]

ou see we can lal see it is a lie because,

1. You sepnd all your timew trying to justify your churches existence. Jesus Church that is His church exists because there are christians that believe Him, it needs no justifying.
2. you spend all your time trying to golrify that which is of teh flesh, your church and you do not glorify God nor Jesus,
3. You church has no revalation its whole existence is based on its own doctrines.
4. You dont come here to promote God nor Jesus and all His good works that lead men to salvation, you only come here to justify a lie, your churches existence.
5. The history of your church is written in the pages of history and no matter how much you scream" we didnt do it" History will not go away.

So before you go around screaming "we are persecuted", please realise your church has being persecuting our Lords church since its very beginning and she will be judged severly.

Rev_17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
Rev_18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

Just remember all this is your choice you have no one to blame but yourself, on judgement day.

 

[tom55]

BreadOfLife,

That is not true.

David Barrett's World Christian Encyclopedia states that there are 242 Roman Catholic denominations. See: HERE.

Oz

Oh no....somebody is not FULLY QUOTING their own source.....AGAIN. Oz has done this with me on several occasions. I agree with Kepha....How dishonest...AND embarrassing!

I love you OZSPEN and you have done a great job on your website promoting and articulating your doctrine, dogma or beliefs (whatever you want to call them) but please be honest. I enjoy my debates with you but you seem to disappear as soon as your proven wrong. Please don't go away this time and continue the debate or admit you made a mistake.

 

[bbyrd009]

Like I tried to explain with CCC 817-820 in post #676, Protestants are accepted as Christians.

lol, well, that's quite big of you...no offense meant. Thank God that God judges differently, i guess.

 

[mjrhealth]

Protestants are accepted as Christians.

and so are catholics, and JWs, SDA, mormans all teh christians denominatins, the greek orthodox etc etc now that we have cleared that up. Where do we start.

 

[bbyrd009]

27A man who is physically uncircumcised, but who fulfills the law, will judge you who are a lawbreaker in spite of having the letter of the law and circumcision.

How can one who has the letter of the Law be a lawbreaker?

 

[OzSpen]

since virtually all of these 23 western and smaller eastern rites are in union with the Pope , there is actually one Catholic Church, not 242 churches or denominations. Based on the encyclopedia's own definition of "denomination" the editors appear to be separating and counting by country which is how you get to 242 (or 238 countries plus 4) "denominations" of Roman Catholics.

The Catholic Church in Canada is not a different "denomination" from the Catholic Church in the U.S., which is not a different Catholic Church from the one in England, etc. If you search the available "World Christian Database" online, there is indeed one Catholic Church in the U.S.A., (see also Barrett, Encyclopedia, volume 1, page 783 for the U.S.A.) and in the world there are indeed 238 "Roman Catholic" denominations (for exactly 238 countries), i.e. one Catholic Church for each country. The same "counting by country" seems to be the case with some of the denominations in the other mega-blocs.

When dividing these "denominations" by country as they do, there are definitely some problems in figuring out the true total "denominations" since many of them are being counted more than once -- and in fact 241 times too much in the case of "Roman Catholic" denominations. Barrett's Encyclopedia states this explicitly:

“As a statistical unit in this Encyclopedia, a 'denomination' always refers to one single country. Thus the Roman Catholic Church, although a single organization, is described here as consisting of 236 denominations in the world's 238 countries.” (Barrett, et al, World Christian Encyclopedia, volume 1, page 27, in the "Glossary" under definition for "Denomination" [later updated to 242], emphasis added)

How dishonest...

http://www.philvaz.com/apologetics/a106.htm#Catholics

kepha,

Based on your principles, you should have no problem in accepting the fact that 33,000 Protestant denominations are in union with the Reformation.

Oz

 

[epostle1]

kepha,

Based on your principles, you should have no problem in accepting the fact that 33,000 Protestant denominations are in union with the Reformation.

Oz

My "principles" are based on doctrinal unity, all 23 rites. Protestant disunity is a scandal, even one denomination is too many. As Paul writes,

Rom. 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

What the Bible says is to reject those who cause divisions, which is the very essence of the onset of Protestantism: schism, sectarianism, and division. It is Protestantism that departed from the historic Church, which is indefectible and infallible (see also 1 Tim 3:15).

But we are trying to be nice.

 

[OzSpen]

My "principles" are based on doctrinal unity, all 23 rites. Protestant disunity is a scandal, even one denomination is too many. As Paul writes,

Rom. 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

What the Bible says is to reject those who cause divisions, which is the very essence of the onset of Protestantism: schism, sectarianism, and division. It is Protestantism that departed from the historic Church, which is indefectible and infallible (see also 1 Tim 3:15).

But we are trying to be nice.

kepha,

To the contrary, your principles are not based on doctrinal unity at all. They were based on rejection of the doctrine of justification by faith alone and the practices of indulgences and a lot of other doctrines that do not agree with the Scriptures. Some of the RCC doctrines that are contrary to biblical Christianity have been exposed over and over. See: https://www.gotquestions.org/Catholic-Biblical.html

Oz

 

[mjrhealth]

What the Bible says is to reject those who cause divisions, which is the very essence of the onset of Protestantism: schism, sectarianism, and division. It is Protestantism that departed from the historic Church, which is indefectible and infallible (see also 1 Tim 3:15).

YEs and look at what your church has done, you know that log thing that Jesus mentions.

 

[bbyrd009]

the historic Church, which is indefectible and infallible (see also 1 Tim 3:15).

yikes, the "historic" Church now, arg.

 

[BreadOfLife]

yikes, the "historic" Church now, arg.

The Catholic Church IS the historic Christian Church.
Can YOU name any other Christian Church that was around for the first 1000 years of Christianity??

Yeah - that's what I thought . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

kepha,

Based on your principles, you should have no problem in accepting the fact that 33,000 Protestant denominations are in union with the Reformation.

Oz

Actually - they're NOT.

The Fathers of the so-called "Reformation" believed in MANY things that Protestants of today patently reject.
A few of them include:
The Perpetual Virginity of Mary
Original Sin
Mary's sinlessness
The Real Presence of the Eucharist

There are tens of thousands of Protestant sects teaching different doctrines yet ALL claiming to have the "Truth."
Any so-called "Catholic" sect that is not in communion with the Holy See is not "Catholic" - but Protestant . . ..

 

[BreadOfLife]

Oh so by your own statement your whole religion is a lie, glad you finally discovred that, i was begining to worry over you. Not quiet true, cant worry over anyone, everman must make his choice and each will judge himself for his choosing.

Care to qualify that statement??

 

[OzSpen]

Actually - they're NOT.

The Fathers of the so-called "Reformation" believed in MANY things that Protestants of today patently reject.
A few of them include:
The Perpetual Virginity of Mary
Original Sin
Mary's sinlessness
The Real Presence of the Eucharist

There are tens of thousands of Protestant sects teaching different doctrines yet ALL claiming to have the "Truth."
Any so-called "Catholic" sect that is not in communion with the Holy See is not "Catholic" - but Protestant . . ..

BreadOfLife,

This is a useless statement as you provide not one piece of documentation.

Please provide me with evidence (with citation) for Protestant Reformers who promoted: (1) The perpetual virginity of Mary, and (2) Mary's sinlessness.

As it stands, your statement is nothing more than your assertion. I wish you would not give us assertions and instead provide real evidence.

I'm not holding my breath.

Oz

 

[bbyrd009]

hopefully B A will come save us from the Inquisition here in a minnit...lol

 

[mjrhealth]

Can YOU name any other Christian Church that was around for the first 1000 years of Christianity??

His the spiritual church made up of all believers, its being around since before teh catholic church was a bad idea in teh mind of its creator. and sorry teh catholic church cannot beat that by a long shot,

Yeah - that's what I thought . . .

Like you said.