When did the universal Church first mentioned in 110AD stop being universal?

[heretoeternity]

Do not need your help...you appear to need all the help you can get however....if as you say you and and your religious organization follow God's Ten commandments why don't you keep the first four.;.You and your Roman religious organization have conveniently forgot them, by accident?? No by design, obviously.....go ahead try and rewrite the Holy Bible, and history itself, but you sound pitiful in doing so, and you should realize that by now.

 

[OzSpen]

You will learn, to interpret scripture if you pray about it..it is obvious you have not, and are having a problem in this area...you are to be pitied and we will pray for you...Cheers...

You will learn to interpret Scripture when you learn the grammar of the language of the text and interpret its meaning in immediate and extended context.

 

[OzSpen]

Do not need your help...you appear to need all the help you can get however....if as you say you and and your religious organization follow God's Ten commandments why don't you keep the first four.;.You and your Roman religious organization have conveniently forgot them, by accident?? No by design, obviously.....go ahead try and rewrite the Holy Bible, and history itself, but you sound pitiful in doing so, and you should realize that by now.

Please document proof of what you have stated here.

 

[heretoeternity]

Learn the ten commandments from the Bible, then you will see your Roman religous organization does not keep the first four....if you do not know God's commandments, you are to be pitied and prayed for as well.

 

[Mungo]

Learn the ten commandments from the Bible, then you will see your Roman religous organization does not keep the first four....if you do not know God's commandments, you are to be pitied and prayed for as well.

As this thread has gone totally down the pan let me throw a wobbly in here.

The Ten Commandments, and I emphaises the Ten Commandments (Ex 20:1-17, or Dt 5:6-21), are Covenant Law for the Old (Sinai) Covenant. They were given to the Israelites alone. They were never given to Gentiles. As Christians we are not a part of the Old Covenant (which anyway has been abrogated).
The Ten Commandments,as part of that Law, are therefore not binding on Christians.

 

[OzSpen]

Perhaps you should stick to the topic and quit your injecting your personal opinion as much....support whatever you have to say with scripture, as I have done. Otherwise if is worthless, as it is just YOUR opinion, and not Biblical.

To whom are you directing your comment?

 

[tom55]

As this thread has gone totally down the pan let me throw a wobbly in here.

The Ten Commandments, and I emphaises the Ten Commandments (Ex 20:1-17, or Dt 5:6-21), are Covenant Law for the Old (Sinai) Covenant. They were given to the Israelites alone. They were never given to Gentiles. As Christians we are not a part of the Old Covenant (which anyway has been abrogated).
The Ten Commandments,as part of that Law, are therefore not binding on Christians.

So I can kill, steal, worship false gods, etc etc.??

 

[OzSpen]

So I can kill, steal, worship false gods, etc etc.??

Tom,

Don't you read the NT and its commandments?

• Matt 5:21 (ESV), 'You shall not murder'.
• Matt 19:18-19 (ESV), 'Jesus said, “You shall not murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, 19 Honour your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbour as yourself.”'.
• Matt 4:10 (ESV), 'Then Jesus said to him, “Be gone, Satan! For it is written,“‘You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.’”

See, Are the 10 Commandments Upheld in the New Testament?

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

Kepha,

This is no more literal than when Jesus said:

Ever heard of a metaphor and what it means?

Oz

 

[tom55]

Tom,

Don't you read the NT and its commandments?

• Matt 5:21 (ESV), 'You shall not murder'.
• Matt 19:18-19 (ESV), 'Jesus said, “You shall not murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, 19 Honour your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbour as yourself.”'.
• Matt 4:10 (ESV), 'Then Jesus said to him, “Be gone, Satan! For it is written,“‘You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.’”

See, Are the 10 Commandments Upheld in the New Testament?

Oz

I think you meant that for MUNGO......I was being sarcastic and going to point out the same verses if he came back with a illogical response.

 

[tom55]

Kepha,

This is no more literal than when Jesus said:

Ever heard of a metaphor and what it means?

Oz

John 10:6 sets up John 10:9....... Jesus used this figure of speech, but the Pharisees did not understand what he was telling them.

 

[OzSpen]

John 10:6 sets up John 10:9....... Jesus used this figure of speech, but the Pharisees did not understand what he was telling them.

You missed the point.

Jesus still used a figure of speech - a metaphor - for 'I am the door', but as he used a figure of speech for the example you gave of the body and blood.

Could you have a blind spot with this one, based on your RC interpretation?

Oz

 

[Mungo]

Tom,

Don't you read the NT and its commandments?

• Matt 5:21 (ESV), 'You shall not murder'.
• Matt 19:18-19 (ESV), 'Jesus said, “You shall not murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, 19 Honour your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbour as yourself.”'.
• Matt 4:10 (ESV), 'Then Jesus said to him, “Be gone, Satan! For it is written,“‘You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.’”

See, Are the 10 Commandments Upheld in the New Testament?

Oz

That's a Protestant site and it is wrong. The Scriptures are very clear that the Old Law is abolished.

Oz, in the thread "Keep His Commandments" you asked:

Are you agreeing with these commandments of God?

• Deuteronomy 22:22: “If a man is found sleeping with another man’s wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die. You must purge the evil from Israel”;

• Leviticus 20:10: “If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife— with the wife of his neighbour—both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death.”

Oz

Well are you?

Surely the amnswer is no.

 

[Mungo]

So I can kill, steal, worship false gods, etc etc.??

Tom,

Was it OK to kill before God gave the Israelites the Ten Commandments?

Was it OK for Gentiles, who were never given the Ten Commandments, to kill?

Surely the answer to both is no. It was wrong to kill from the very beginning (as Cain was aware).

So if it was not OK to kill before the Ten Commandments were promulagated to the Israelites in the desert, why would it be OK when the Old Covenant Law, including the Ten Commandments, was abolished? Why did that change anything?

 

[Mungo]

I think you meant that for MUNGO......I was being sarcastic and going to point out the same verses if he came back with a illogical response.

And was my response illogical?

 

[OzSpen]

That's a Protestant site and it is wrong. The Scriptures are very clear that the Old Law is abolished.

Oz, in the thread "Keep His Commandments" you asked:


Well are you?

Surely the amnswer is no.

Are you telling me that since Jesus said it is wrong to murder and steal that that is not included in the New Covenant and that it is OK for Christians to steal, murder and worship false gods?

So what if a website is a Protestant website! Do you have such a bias against Protestantism that you are not able to tolerate Protestants? If that is the case, why are you on CyB that has so many Protestants here?

Oz

 

[Mungo]

Are you telling me that since Jesus said it is wrong to murder and steal that that is not included in the New Covenant and that it is OK for Christians to steal, murder and worship false gods?

So what if a website is a Protestant website! Do you have such a bias against Protestantism that you are not able to tolerate Protestants? If that is the case, why are you on CyB that has so many Protestants here?

Oz

Sorry, my error. I was getting you confused with Tom. Don't know why I did that.

 

[Mungo]

You missed the point.

Jesus still used a figure of speech - a metaphor - for 'I am the door', but as he used a figure of speech for the example you gave of the body and blood.

Could you have a blind spot with this one, based on your RC interpretation?

Oz

Just because Jesus uses a metaphor in one place it does not mean that he is using a metaphor in another place. Context is important and a metaphor has to have a cultural context. It is using something that a person is familiar with to explain something that a person is unfamiliar with.

The Jews of the time were familiar with doors and vines (Jn 15:1) so a metaphor worked.

There is no cultural context for someone declaring that a piece of bread is their body so it cannot be taken as a metaphor. The only context for such a statement is John 6:26-58. Here Jesus leads his hearers from talking about literal bread to literally eating his body (and drinking his blood).

 

[OzSpen]

Just because Jesus uses a metaphor in one place it does not mean that he is using a metaphor in another place. Context is important and a metaphor has to have a cultural context. It is using something that a person is familiar with to explain something that a person is unfamiliar with.

The Jews of the time were familiar with doors and vines (Jn 15:1) so a metaphor worked.

There is no cultural context for someone declaring that a piece of bread is their body so it cannot be taken as a metaphor. The only context for such a statement is John 6:26-58. Here Jesus leads his hearers from talking about literal bread to literally eating his body (and drinking his blood).

Bread cannot literally be fleshly body, so it must be a figure of speech - a metaphor.

Wine cannot literally be Jesus' blood, so it must be figure of speech - a metaphor.

That's the only logical interpretation that makes sense of the semantics.

Oz

 

[Mungo]

Bread cannot literally be fleshly body.....

Wine cannot literally be Jesus' blood.....

Oz

I agree with the first part of each statement (as above). But that is not what is claimed.

After the consecration the bread is no longer bread; the wine in no longer wine.