When in Revelation the Rapture will occur

[keras]

The Rapture is in the Bible and even you have conceded that Rev 7:9 is in Heaven.

Why do you persist in calling those who "comfort one another with these words" deceived?

You have misunderstood me, Rev 7:9 is an earthly scene. It is every Christian gathered into the holy Land, soon after the Sixth Seal disaster.

You are deceived because you believe 1 Thess 4:15-17 is a rapture removal to heaven, when it is simply a gathering to meet and greet Jesus as He comes back to the earth for His Millennium reign. Paralleled by Matthew 24:30-31

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

To answer the topic question:

Let's look at the parallel account with Revelation of chapters 13-16 inclusive, which I call the Rise and Fall of the anti-Christ. I think the whole of the one 'seven' is detailed here to give us some added information which is missing from other accounts, mainly the seventh Trumpet, but also about the 144,000 and about the nature of the Day of the Lord and some things peculiar to the sixth Seal which lead to much confusion about the Wrath of God first mentioned in writing in Revelation chapter 6.

In outline form from the four chapters of Revelation 13 through 16 here are the “events:”
.....• The rise of the fourth terrible beast of a nation out of the “sea”
..........o Worship of the beast (rebellion against God)
.....• Authority given (by God) to the beast of a man for one-half of the one 'seven'
..........o He wages war against the Saints
..........o We are to endure patiently (remember Rev 3:10 and John 17:15)
.....• Rise of the false prophet with miracles and 'fire from the sky'
.....• Erection of the talking image of the anti-Christ: the midpoint abomination
.....• Two laws which make the Great Tribulation the worst time ever for the Church in terms of persecution
.....• 144,000 assembled on Mount Zion
.....• 3 Angels fulfill the Great Commission / Warn the wicked
.....• Son of Man coming on the clouds
.....• Harvest from the clouds
.....• Avenging Angels - Blood and Fire (Same as the first Trumpet of Rev 8)
(Last Judgments - perhaps showing the "depth" of God's Wrath, i.e, the third Woe/seventh Trumpet)
.....• First Bowl - Sores on Man
.....• Second Bowl - All sea to blood
.....• Third Bowl - All water to blood
.....• Fourth Bowl - Seared by heat
.....• Fifth Bowl - Satan's kingdom in the dark
.....• Sixth Bowl - Way for the King of the East - Battle at Armageddon N/S/E
.....• Seventh Bowl - Earth changing earthquake

Working backwards at first, in sequencing this account to the previous compilation, the Bowl Judgments come last - it says so in the Harvest account in chapter 15. Previously the seventh Trumpet announcement was broken off in the previous Seal/Scroll chronology in Revelation chapter 10 when John is told not to write and only later summed up with no details of the desolations it ensues being revealed whatsoever. So now God shows to John what he didn't write about in the Seal/Scroll chronology: the desolations of the third Woe. They are all of the first "thirds" Trumpet Judgments but now - they're total. The depth of God’s Wrath is displayed in the third Woe.

Notice that the end comes with an earth-changing Great earthquake. This marries what chapter 11 had at its end and in addition, what concludes the sidebar account of Revelation 11:1-13. There are parallel accounts within the book of Revelation because there is so much action taking place, and one of the clues that these take place is repeated events. This is also the reason the book of Revelation is so hard to read when read like a novel; the action seems to go back and forth.

 

[ezekiel]

Again please hear the words from the Christ.

37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

 

[rockytopva]

You have misunderstood me, Rev 7:9 is an earthly scene. It is every Christian gathered into the holy Land, soon after the Sixth Seal disaster.

You are deceived because you believe 1 Thess 4:15-17 is a rapture removal to heaven, when it is simply a gathering to meet and greet Jesus as He comes back to the earth for His Millennium reign. Paralleled by Matthew 24:30-31

After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; - Revelation 7:9

It said they, "stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes..." The throne is not a place on earth but in heaven.

 

[Heb 13:8]

You have misunderstood me, Rev 7:9 is an earthly scene. It is every Christian gathered into the holy Land, soon after the Sixth Seal disaster.

You are deceived because you believe 1 Thess 4:15-17 is a rapture removal to heaven, when it is simply a gathering to meet and greet Jesus as He comes back to the earth for His Millennium reign. Paralleled by Matthew 24:30-31

Are you placing the sixth seal at the end of the 70th week, or when the great trib is cut short?

 

[Heb 13:8]

After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; - Revelation 7:9

It said they, "stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes..." The throne is not a place on earth but in heaven.

Exactly, Jesus is not going to sit on a throne that is muddied by a fallen world. The 1,000 years hasn't arrived yet.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

You have misunderstood me, Rev 7:9 is an earthly scene.

Yesterday, in post #41 you said it was in Heaven.

You are deceived because you believe 1 Thess 4:15-17 is a rapture removal to heaven, when it is simply a gathering to meet and greet Jesus as He comes back to the earth for His Millennium reign. Paralleled by Matthew 24:30-31

I think you deceive yourself.

The wheat is removed from the field to the barn of Heaven, and then the tares will be burned in the field of this world.

 

[Heb 13:8]

The wheat is removed from the field to the barn of Heaven, and then the tares will be burned in the field of this world.

Matt 24:40-41 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

 

[idono]

And that's at the end of the one 'seven'.

For the Bride, we have the "unveiling" where each of us gives an account.
For the captured anti-Christ and false prophet - they are judged and thrown into the Lake of Fire in their flesh.

If the seventh trumpet were the end of the one 'seven' then how about the seven bowls subsequently.

According to the Revelation 19:19-20, the captured of the anti- Christ and false prophet should be happening after the sixth bowl Revelation 16:12-16.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

There is no desolation detailed in the Seal/Scroll chronology of the seven numbered Trumpets blown by Angels.

In the parallel account of the one 'seven' in chapters 13-16 - the Bowls are last.
Therefore: it is my hypothesis that the seventh Trumpet announces the DEPTH of God's Wrath: the seven Bowls.

The sixth Bowl brings them to Armageddon.
The seventh Bowl provides the final victory after the King of the North beats the South and East - thus winning the whole world...
...but his victory is Pyrrhic; his newly amassed armies are defeated by Jesus and the 144,000 who never leave the Lamb's side.

 

[rockytopva]

There is no desolation detailed in the Seal/Scroll chronology of the seven numbered Trumpets blown by Angels.

In the parallel account of the one 'seven' in chapters 13-16 - the Bowls are last.
Therefore: it is my hypothesis that the seventh Trumpet announces the DEPTH of God's Wrath: the seven Bowls.

The sixth Bowl brings them to Armageddon.
The seventh Bowl provides the final victory after the King of the North beats the South and East - thus winning the whole world...
...but his victory is Pyrrhic; his newly amassed armies are defeated by Jesus and the 144,000 who never leave the Lamb's side.

You have the humility to say, "Therefore: it is my hypothesis..." I commend you for this! God bless!

 

[keras]

Are you placing the sixth seal at the end of the 70th week, or when the great trib is cut short?

I place the Sixth Seal as the next prophesied event. It isn't part of the Great Trib, but is what will commence all the end time events.

Marcus. In #41, I said Rev 7:9 was a heavenly scene, because as I explained next, the Lord will be there - in Jerusalem, as Rev 14 says. Where God, the Throne, angels, etc, are; then that is where heaven is.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

I place the Sixth Seal as the next prophesied event.

The sixth Seal first brings with it the sun/moon/star event - the celestial sign which precedes the Day of the Lord.

Working backwards:

• The sun/moon/star sign comes after the Great Tribulation - Mt 24:29.
• The Great Tribulation comes after the midpoint abomination - Mt 24:22 & Rev 13:15-16.
• The midpoint abomination is at the midpoint of the one 'seven' - Dan 9:27 & Mt 24:15 & Rev 13:14-15

Therefore - the one 'seven' must begin before we get to any of the events which precede.
The beginning of the one 'seven' can be found in Revelation 13:1-13

The fourth terrible beast of a nation has yet to be formed.
Then the terrible beast of a man has yet to rise up within the ring of ten ministers (kings) which rule over it.

THAT is what is next on the prophetic calendar.
Coincidental with the start of the one 'seven' will be Rev 11:1-2.
When you see the Temple being built in Jerusalem - you can know the one 'seven' has started.
Then Christians will begin to be oppressed in the first world like they are in the third world.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

Where God, the Throne, angels, etc, are; then that is where heaven is.

God the Father is not coming down to Jerusalem on the Day of the Lord with His Throne - at the very beginning of the desolations Jesus will bring to wipe the wicked from the earth.

God's Throne is in Heaven; the abode where Jesus is now.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

Oops.

 

[ezekiel]

You have not based any on the rock, it is sand that falls thru your hands. Like a potter it will be broken into pieces. You have not listen to the seers you go down to Egypt for you word, You have not seek the Holy on of Israel, you understand not.

Isaiah 30

 

[Heb 13:8]

I place the Sixth Seal as the next prophesied event. It isn't part of the Great Trib, but is what will commence all the end time events.

The sixth seal is not a part of great trib, it's at the end of it. When great trib is cut short.

 

[keras]

God the Father is not coming down to Jerusalem on the Day of the Lord with His Throne - at the very beginning of the desolations Jesus will bring to wipe the wicked from the earth.

God's Throne is in Heaven; the abode where Jesus is now.

Where is Jesus now? Matthew 28:20 ...I will be with you always, until the end of time.
​Scripture DOES say the throne will be on Mt Zion, Revelation 14:1-3 and Jesus will reveal Himself to His people there. 2 Thess 1:10

You simply fail to comprehend the spiritual nature of God, Jesus and heaven. They are in a dimension we cannot see or touch. They are everywhere and only when God chooses, can humans experience their Presence. Like Elijah did, to see the chariots of the angelic army.

 

[keras]

The sixth seal is not a part of great trib, it's at the end of it. When great trib is cut short.

This is wrong, because it means a serious shuffling of the given sequence in Revelation. Not a good idea. Rev 22:18-19
The first five Seals are open and the world has experienced the effects of them. Next to come is the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster that will destroy God's enemies and set the scene for all that must happen before the Return of Jesus.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

Where is Jesus now?

Same place He's been since He ascended: HEAVEN.

Acts 3:20 and that he may send the Messiah, who has been appointed for you—even Jesus. 21 Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.

So I was talking with my Pastor, and I was telling him about these guys who said there was no Heaven, and that when we are taken up, we are not taken to Heaven, and he just looked at me and said, "Are they serious?" And I said, "Yes." And he just shook his head and said, "It's amazing what some people come up with, because there is a Heaven where Jesus is now."