When Jesus says...

[Jake]

Those living in the flesh are those who live to satisfy the flesh - Paul is speaking against people who glorify themselves through religion or lust or any other manner of self gratification. He is not speaking about people who are justified and submitting themselves to the Spirit daily, but fall into old patterns of selfishness, sometimes - there is a BIG difference. He is right - those who live for their own glorification through selfish gratification are lost.

Also, you need to define the Old Man - it is the ego! We are called to throw off the Old Man many times everyday - it is not a one time exercise! Our ego is constantly getting in the way of our selfless love through service. The first thing that speaks to us in response to the idea of exercising a selfless act is the Old Man - 'what am I going to get out of it?' - it is the human condition, even after justification. The only difference post-justification is that we are equipped to actually overthrown our egos instead of being slaves to it.

The entire Bible is written to believers and when Paul is speaking of people gratifiying the flesh and living in the flesh he is speaking to believers, what use is it to speak to nonbelievers, those who do not have the Holy Spirit to discern spiritual matters. He is warning believers not to gratify the flesh, but instead to live with their minds set on the things of the Spirit, how can a non-believer do that?

 

[prism]

Shep and Son of Man,
Don't you find it curious that Paul who is the Apostle to the Gentiles never mentions the word 'disciple'?

For I speak to youGentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
(Rom 11:13)

Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.
(1Ti 2:7)

Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.
(2Ti 1:11)

 

[aspen]

Shep and Son of Man,
Don't you find it curious that Paul who is the Apostle to the Gentiles never mentions the word 'disciple'?

For I speak to youGentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
(Rom 11:13)

Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.
(1Ti 2:7)

Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.
(2Ti 1:11)

Why is this interesting? I thought the disciples were the 12 who ministered with Jesus plus the one who replaced Judas.

The entire Bible is written to believers and when Paul is speaking of people gratifiying the flesh and living in the flesh he is speaking to believers, what use is it to speak to nonbelievers, those who do not have the Holy Spirit to discern spiritual matters. He is warning believers not to gratify the flesh, but instead to live with their minds set on the things of the Spirit, how can a non-believer do that?

Yeah he is telling them not to slip back into their old selfish patterns of gratifying the flesh. Look Jake if you believe now that you are a Christian you are immune to sin, you are simply refusing to notice all the times you act selfishly. I am not going to convince you that you are a sinner if you refuse to see it.

 

[us2are1]

Shep and Son of Man,
Don't you find it curious that Paul who is the Apostle to the Gentiles never mentions the word 'disciple'?

For I speak to youGentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
(Rom 11:13)

Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.
(1Ti 2:7)

Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.
(2Ti 1:11)

Not at all because a disciple is a learner, pupil, where an apostle is a delegate, messenger, one sent forth with orders.

Disciple

Strong's Number: 3101 Original Word Word Origin maqhthvß from (3129) Transliterated Word TDNT Entry Mathetes 4:415,552 Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech math-ay-tes' Noun Masculine Definition

1. a learner, pupil, disciple

King James Word Usage - Total: 269 disciple 268, vr disciple 1


Apostle
Strong's Number: 652 Original Word Word Origin ajpovstoloß from (649) Transliterated Word TDNT Entry Apostolos 1:407,67 Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech ap-os'-tol-os Noun Masculine Definition

1. a delegate, messenger, one sent forth with orders
   1. specifically applied to the twelve apostles of Christ
   2. in a broader sense applied to other eminent Christian teachers
      1. of Barnabas
      2. of Timothy and Silvanus

King James Word Usage - Total: 81 apostle 78, messenger 2, he that is sent 1

 

[goodshepard55]

prism...not at all..Paul was a disciple, he was a pupil..Paul graduated from pupil to teacher, preacher and Apostle..He was sent as an Apostle to the gentiles...Which means he was sent to make disciples out of the gentiles...the gentiles became his pupils...

Love you, and good post ...

Shep

 

[Jake]

Yeah he is telling them not to slip back into their old selfish patterns of gratifying the flesh. Look Jake if you believe now that you are a Christian you are immune to sin, you are simply refusing to notice all the times you act selfishly. I am not going to convince you that you are a sinner if you refuse to see it.

Not once did I say that I don't still sin, what I did say is through Christ, we can overcome sin. Sin is deceitful and powerful, it can overtake and kill a soul, it sets itself up against God, it is a carnal man's law. It has to be conquered, purged and overcome, and through Jesus it can be, not simply covered, but gotten rid of - completely.

Has no one ever overcome one sin by the power of the Spirit living within us? It's hard to believe, even I have overcome a sin in my life, and will continue with the power that dwells within me.

 

[Prentis]

The reaction I hear alot goes a bit like this:

Joshua and Caleb believe that by the power of God and because it is the will of God they can destroy the giants in the land...

And here are the ten other spies, answering something like "Oh really? Did you ever kill a giant? You think YOU can kill the giants and take the land?" or, since this is a spiritual reality, "Oh so you're saying you took the land, and you've killed the giants?"

Well I can tell you I didn't but when speaking to others, who are we to say they didn't? Is it impossible for God to make them to do so?

Of course, if they have, it will be manifested in their lives... Thus an honest man can atleast see it...

But the issue is really the unbelief.

 

[us2are1]

Not once did I say that I don't still sin, what I did say is through Christ, we can overcome sin. Sin is deceitful and powerful, it can overtake and kill a soul, it sets itself up against God, it is a carnal man's law. It has to be conquered, purged and overcome, and through Jesus it can be, not simply covered, but gotten rid of - completely.

Has no one ever overcome one sin by the power of the Spirit living within us? It's hard to believe, even I have overcome a sin in my life, and will continue with the power that dwells within me.

Amen Jake

Anyone can ask God in Faith and it will be given.
It took me asking God for many years to get rid of my smoking habit.
I know that many worldly people have conquered smoking but not the way God did It.
Like I said I prayed every day for years for God to Help me and one day I woke up totally forgetting that I smoked.
That was ten years ago and It has been like I never smoked in my life all that time. Now I thank God for it every day. I had smoked for thirty five years and He healed the craving problem and healed the Lungs.

 

[prism]

Missed my point totally. Paul was an Apostle to the Gentiles. Paul gave us our program which includes sonship, heirs, seated now in heavenly places, partakers of Christ, etc. etc. but never does he say "And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Christ cannot be His disciple."
As sons of God on account of what Jesus has done for us that condition to be his disciple no longer exists. We are now his disciple because Christ Jesus already lives in us teaching,leading, correcting us as His sons.

 

[aspen]

Not once did I say that I don't still sin, what I did say is through Christ, we can overcome sin. Sin is deceitful and powerful, it can overtake and kill a soul, it sets itself up against God, it is a carnal man's law. It has to be conquered, purged and overcome, and through Jesus it can be, not simply covered, but gotten rid of - completely.

Has no one ever overcome one sin by the power of the Spirit living within us? It's hard to believe, even I have overcome a sin in my life, and will continue with the power that dwells within me.

Ok - I am glad I was just misunderstanding you. I have been in several other discussions with Christians on this board that believe they have been sin free since they became Christian. And I agree with you - now that we know Christ we have the choice to no longer sin - not that we will always be able to make the less selfish choice, but at least it is possible.

 

[Jake]

Amen Jake

Anyone can ask God in Faith and it will be given.
It took me asking God for many years to get rid of my smoking habit.
I know that many worldly people have conquered smoking but not the way God did It.
Like I said I prayed every day for years for God to Help me and one day I woke up totally forgetting that I smoked.
That was ten years ago and It has been like I never smoked in my life all that time. Now I thank God for it every day. I had smoked for thirty five years and He healed the craving problem and healed the Lungs.

Amen! I agree, the Bible does say if we ask in faith, it will be given to us! The Lord can conquer any and all sin in us, all things are possible with Him.

 

[prophetic]

Luke 14
[sup]27[/sup] And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.

What do you think?

yes mate , here word of god says that whoever does not follow me or accept me, cannot be my disciple we have to denies the world and follow Jesus....Amen