When one is deceived, does that make him a sinner?
- Thread starter Tong2020
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Cristo Rei
Well-Known Member
You can be deceived by anyone... I was deceived into paying too much money for a car... Did i sin? Off course not
But if your talking about evil deception then you can be deceived before sinning...
For example some people have been deceived to think that Satan is just a metaphor... Thats not a sin
He can deceive you in very subtle ways like misjudging someone's character which isn't a sin either
That shows being deceived does not make one a sinner. But since you say not always, is there a case you know when being deceived makes one a sinner?
Tong
R4724
Cristo Rei
Well-Known Member
Is it a sin to not believe in God?
I was deceived by the evil one when I was younger. I rejected God as I was deceived unto believing He didn't exist.
That's a sin, right?
Yes it is a sin not to believe in God. However, unbelief, or rejecting God is different from having been deceived. At least that’s how I see the difference between a deceived and a sinner.
Is it not that the deceiver is the sinner and not the one deceived?
Tong
R4725
OzSpen
Well-Known Member
- Mar 30, 2015
- 3,728
- 795
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- Australia
Cristo,
Is deception unrighteous? If so, it it sin.
I recall examples of unrighteousness from 1 Cor 6:9-11 (ESV):
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
In my understanding, to commit unrighteous acts is to sin. To be deceived is to submit to unrighteousness.
Oz
Desire Of All Nations
Well-Known Member
The whole reason why Paul called sinners "sons of disobedience" in Eph. 2:2 is because Satan is their master, whether they knowingly reject God's commandments as a way of life or not. If they're rejecting God's way of life and the truth revealed in the Bible, that obviously means they're accepting Satan's way of life and lies that are not supported by the Bible. Christ and the other apostles gave so many warnings about being on guard against deception because God will not associate Himself with lies or the people who practice them.
Deceived is not the same as have sinned.
Is it not that the deceiver is the sinner and not the one deceived?
Tong
R4730
Kinda think that being born makes us sinners by nature. Children don't need to be deceived to start saying "no" to mom and dad. They don't need to be taught how to be selfish or how to fight over toys and personal possessions. All that just comes naturally. The knowledge of sin , however, is an entirely different matter. That's were deception comes into play and has from the very beginning.
Some may not be aware of it, that they think when one is deceived, it means he had sinned. No. The deceiver sins, not the one who was deceived.
However, while that is the case, it is not a good thing to be deceived or to be in deception. For with the deceived person, all that he does would pretty much be out of the deception he is in. And that is not good at all. For no deception is not a lie. And a lie is a lie. It is sin, isn’t it?
Scriptures said Eve was deceived by the serpent, thus her mind was corrupted by the words of the serpent (satan). With her mind corrupted, that when she looked at the forbidden tree, she saw the tree differently now, as a tree desirable to make one wise. Regarding this, James had this to say “each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin”. Eve was drawn away by her own desire and enticed. And we know what happened next, Eve fell into transgression. Deception cause her to sin. And we know what sin had brought upon her. This, I think is why, the warning “do not be deceived” is just all over scriptures, especially in the writings of the inspired NT writers.
Tong
R4762
However, while that is the case, it is not a good thing to be deceived or to be in deception. For with the deceived person, all that he does would pretty much be out of the deception he is in. And that is not good at all. For no deception is not a lie. And a lie is a lie. It is sin, isn’t it?
Scriptures said Eve was deceived by the serpent, thus her mind was corrupted by the words of the serpent (satan). With her mind corrupted, that when she looked at the forbidden tree, she saw the tree differently now, as a tree desirable to make one wise. Regarding this, James had this to say “each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin”. Eve was drawn away by her own desire and enticed. And we know what happened next, Eve fell into transgression. Deception cause her to sin. And we know what sin had brought upon her. This, I think is why, the warning “do not be deceived” is just all over scriptures, especially in the writings of the inspired NT writers.
Tong
R4762
Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
.
Whether deception makes the deceived one a sinner is debatable; but for
sure it can put them in grave danger; for example:
• 2Thess 2:11-12 . . For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that
they should believe a lie: that they all might be damned who believed not
the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
_
Whether deception makes the deceived one a sinner is debatable; but for
sure it can put them in grave danger; for example:
• 2Thess 2:11-12 . . For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that
they should believe a lie: that they all might be damned who believed not
the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
_
Davy
Well-Known Member
Apostle Paul explained in Romans that there is such a thing as sin in ignorance. So it's still sin, even done unknowingly that it's a sin.
The reward of sin is death, so it still applies, however, God's Word points to the spirit-soul of a sinner not being destroyed unless first being accountable (no longer in ignorance) for rejecting The Father and His Son's Blood shed upon the cross.
An example is in 1 Corinthians 5 about the sinner among the Corinthian Church that was having sex with his mother. Paul said to cast that one out for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit might be saved in the day of Christ (meaning in the "day of the Lord" pointing to Christ's future "thousand years" reign after His return.)
Is it not that the deceiver is the sinner and not the one deceived?
What do you say about that?
Tong
R4829
Davy
Well-Known Member
If someone kidnapped one of your family, and commanded that you kill someone or they would kill your relative, would you do it? Would you still be committing a sin if you agreed to kill?
I am sorry, but I don’t get your point. I don’t see the deceiver and the deceived there in your illustration and questions. I do not see how that answers my question:
“Is it not that the deceiver is the sinner and not the one deceived?”
So, can you please explain your post?
Thanks.
Tong
R4830
Davy
Well-Known Member
Well, you asked me if only the deceiver was the sinner, so I gave you an example. Maybe Apostle Paul would be a better example. Paul, before Christ converted him, was a Pharisee, and held the coats of those who stoned God's prophet Stephen. Paul, called Saul then, was on his way to Damascus to hunt down Christians to bring them back to Jerusalem captive for trial. But Jesus converted Saul into His service. Was Saul sinning against Christ, even though Saul did it in ignorance? The answer is yes, though done in ignorance, it was still sin. The real matter is whether one is accountable for the sin or not.
<<<Well, you asked me if only the deceiver was the sinner, so I gave you an example.>>>
Yes, I asked you. And my question is;
“Is it not that the deceiver is the sinner and not the one deceived?”
Please try and understand what I am asking. It’s like asking “Is it not that the thief who stole is the sinner and not the one robbed?”
Your example of Paul does not answer the question.
Tong
R4833
Davy
Well-Known Member
I answered your question per Christian doctrine in God's Word. You cannot just say a sin is not a sin, regardless of the circumstances of the one committing it. Where the difference is, is that Christ Jesus covers sin for those who believe, but NOT for those who don't believe on Him. And even then, He still controls those in power over us, so even as a Christian, if we break God's law, it's still a sin, and there is sin unto death (i.e., death penalty, like 1st degree murder), and then there is sin that is not unto death.
So don't go looting in the streets breaking the law, just because some deceiver revolutionary gets up on a podium and tells you to riot.
The deceiver is the sinner and the deceived is not. If I for example will go out and deceive you, I am the sinner in deceiving you. You, being the victim, does not sin when you were deceived.
What you do afterwards is another matter.
Tong
R4836
Davy
Well-Known Member
That's not correct. If a deceiver tricks you into committing a sin, you still committed a sin, and broke God's law.
Similar threads
