When the Bible says, "Dead", what does it mean?

[Davy]

Can I be perfectly sinless? If I say no, does that let me off the hook from God's call to be holy as He is holy? Is He giving us an impossible command? Impossible without Christ, that's for certain! In Christ, well, I think the answer is, Be it to you according to your faith.

Much love!

Well, let's try it...

Can... you be perfectly sinless??

 

[Davy]

Somehow, we're speaking past each other, or something! We are not communicating very well I'm afraid.

As you said, of course, what is born of flesh is flesh, and what is born of spirit is spirit. We are spirit children of God alive in flesh bodies that are children of Adam.

Much love!

As of right now, I 'feel' you are thinking you can be like your 'own' Christ and without sin, if you say you have stopped sinning.

 

[marks]

I'm telling you what God's Word teaches, and it's not what you are teaching, but you aren't meaning just that we have power over sin, that's not what all you are including in your theory from men. You are trying to say those in Christ CAN be PERFECT LIKE JESUS CHRIST. And to that, I say those who think that are DELUSIONAL. Let me tell you why...

You have very much misunderstood me.

But you seem to think we don't really have power over sin.

We sin because we are strongmen who see ourselves as weaklings, because we define ourselves according to our perceptions of our selves, so we quit too quickly. We avoid sin by recognizing in Christ we are strong, and don't have interrupt our communion with Christ to take time out to get drunk, or sleep around, or tell a little lie, so we endure whatever it is, just staying in communion with Christ, which is infinitely better.

Much love!

 

[stephen64]

Can I be perfectly sinless? If I say no, does that let me off the hook from God's call to be holy as He is holy? Is He giving us an impossible command? Impossible without Christ, that's for certain! In Christ, well, I think the answer is, Be it to you according to your faith.

Much love!

Think of what it would entail to be sinless. Perfect obedience to all of Christ's commands in the Gospels?
Perfect obedience on the inside, in your heart and mind.
Would you then consider you needed a saviour from sin?

I'm not trying to excuse sin btw. But in our bodies of flesh, I do not believe any believer will ever reach sinless perfection on this earth. I will always need a saviour from sin

 

[marks]

Well, let's try it...

Can... you be perfectly sinless??

Can we live holy and righteous lives? Yes! With God, all things are possible. Can God fully santify a man who is here on the earth? Is that possible?

At the end of the day, none of us are qualified to say whether or not we are living sinlessly.

1 Corinthians 4:3-5 KJV
3) But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
4) For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
5) Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

We don't know ourselves well enough to make that determination, even if our conscience is completely clear, yet our thinking could still be defective.

Much love!

 

[Davy]

You have very much misunderstood me.

But you seem to think we don't really have power over sin.

I never said anything to give that idea.


So can you answer my question?...

Can you be perfect without sin today?

 

[Davy]

Can we live holy and righteous lives? Yes! With God, all things are possible. Can God fully santify a man who is here on the earth? Is that possible?

At the end of the day, none of us are qualified to say whether or not we are living sinlessly.

1 Corinthians 4:3-5 KJV
3) But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
4) For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
5) Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

We don't know ourselves well enough to make that determination, even if our conscience is completely clear, yet our thinking could still be defective.

Much love!

Your DENIAL in answering my question if you think you don't sin anymore makes you look awful suspicious.

 

[Davy]

Think of what it would entail to be sinless. Perfect obedience to all of Christ's commands in the Gospels?
Perfect obedience on the inside, in your heart and mind.
Would you then consider you needed a saviour from sin?

I'm not trying to excuse sin btw. But in our bodies of flesh, I do not believe any believer will ever reach sinless perfection on this earth. I will always need a saviour from sin

And my point exactly.

 

[Enoch111]

If Death only means the cessation of life, and you are alive if you are standing, and when you die you just drop and that's the end, how you account for the sayings of these passages? And many more like them?

Since the naysayers do not really want the truth about death (which includes spiritual death as well as the second death) there is no point in saying anything more.

 

[marks]

Perfect obedience on the inside, in your heart and mind.
Would you then consider you needed a saviour from sin?

Go beyond obedience to the lists of commands, complete sanctification will mean that we NEVER for a moment stop being in love with God and man, we never for a moment lose our peacefulness, our joyfulness, our faithfulness, gentleness, humility, our self-control. That we show the fruit of the Spirit always.

That we always act out of love for the other.

1 Thessalonians 3:12-13 KJV
12) And the Lord make you to increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all men, even as we do toward you:
13) To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

Much love!

 

[Davy]

Go beyond obedience to the lists of commands, complete sanctification will mean that we NEVER for a moment stop being in love with God and man, we never for a moment lose our peacefulness, our joyfulness, our faithfulness, gentleness, humility, our self-control. That we show the fruit of the Spirit always.

That we always act out of love for the other.

1 Thessalonians 3:12-13 KJV
12) And the Lord make you to increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all men, even as we do toward you:
13) To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

Much love!

I hate to break it to you brother, but you are setting yourself up for a strong lesson from our Heavenly Father, IF... you think you can be perfect like Him or His Son, even after leaving your flesh.

 

[marks]

As of right now, I 'feel' you are thinking you can be like your 'own' Christ and without sin, if you say you have stopped sinning.

The only power of sin is Christ in me, so, I'm still thinking we're not quite connecting here. And I've never said I've stopped sinning.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Your DENIAL in answering my question if you think you don't sin anymore makes you look awful suspicious.

Who says I don't commit sins?

We need to slow down or something. I'm finding all these replies to things I don't say.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I hate to break it to you brother, but you are setting yourself up for a strong lesson from our Heavenly Father, IF... you think you can be perfect like Him or His Son, even after leaving your flesh.

Wherever you are getting this from I don't know, but you should address these remarks to someone who thinks that way.

Much love!

 

[stephen64]

Go beyond obedience to the lists of commands, complete sanctification will mean that we NEVER for a moment stop being in love with God and man, we never for a moment lose our peacefulness, our joyfulness, our faithfulness, gentleness, humility, our self-control. That we show the fruit of the Spirit always.

That we always act out of love for the other.

1 Thessalonians 3:12-13 KJV
12) And the Lord make you to increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all men, even as we do toward you:
13) To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

Much love!

Just think of how such love would have to be portrayed to live in perfect obedience:

Don't invite friends or family home for a meal, but rather the poor, blind, lame and beggars.
If you fast, do not so much as hint to anyone you are fasting
If someone stole something of yours, give to them more than what they stole, with nothing but love in your heart for them
If anyone maligns or persecutes you, have nothing but love in your heart for them
Always, without flinching truly love your enemies from your heart
If anyone wants to borrow from you, gladly give to them without ever expecting anything back
Leap for joy when you are persecuted
Always esteem other higher than yourself

We could of course go on and on couldn't we

 

[marks]

Just think of how such love would have to be portrayed to live in perfect obedience:

And continue to think of these things!



No matter what is happening in life, bask in our Father's love, flowing over to others. All pain brings a gift. All loss brings a gift. All affliction is a garden to grow in.

Much love!

 

[Johann]

Yea @marks -on FIRE for the Messiah.

 

[Johann]

What are these passages telling us? What does "death" mean in the Bible?

DEATH. A term that, in its application to the lower orders of living things, as animals
and plants, denotes the extinction of vital functions, so that their renewal is
impossible. With reference to human beings the term is variously defined according to
the view held of human nature and life. The answer to the question, What is death?
depends upon the answer given in the first place to the question, What is man?

Scripture Doctrine. The general teaching of the Scriptures is that man is not only
a physical but also a spiritual being; accordingly, death is not the end of human
existence, but a change of place or conditions in which conscious existence continues.

(1) The doctrine of the future life is less emphatically taught in the OT than in the NT.
The OT Scriptures, however, frequently refer to death in terms harmonious with that
doctrine (Eccles. 12:7; 2 Sam. 12:23; Ps. 73:24; Job 14:14; Isa. 28:12). (2) In the NT
this dark subject receives special illumination. In many cases essentially the same
forms of representation are employed. Death is “a departure,” a “being absent from

MT Masoretic Text
H.F.V. Howard F. Vos
the body,” an “unclothing,” a “sleep,” but with all is the clear and strong
announcement that Christ “brought life and immortality to light through the gospel”
(2 Cor. 5:1–4; John 11:13; 2 Tim. 1:10; 4:6–7; etc.). (3) Death as a human experience,
according to the Scriptures, is the result and punishment of sin. “The wages of sin is
death.” And though the word is often used in a spiritual sense to denote the ruin
wrought in man’s spiritual nature by sin, yet in the ordinary physical sense of the
word, death is declared to have come upon the human race in consequence of sin. No
such declaration is made as to the death of lower creatures (Gen. 2:17; 3:19; Rom.
5:12; 6:23; James 1:15). (4) A principal part of Christ’s redemptive work is the
abolishment of death. This is seen in part in man’s present state, in the salvation that
Christ effects from sin, which is “the sting of death,” and in the taking away of the
fear of death from true believers. The complete work of Christ in this respect will
appear in the resurrection (2 Tim. 1:10; 1 Cor. 15:22, 56–57; Heb. 2:14–15).
Man and Lower Creatures.

The Scriptures make a deep distinction between the
death of human beings and that of irrational creatures. For the latter it is the natural
end of the existence; for the former it is an unnatural experience to which they are
reduced because of sin, which is also unnatural. Man was not created to die.
The Scriptures nowhere affirm that death did not prevail over the lower creatures
before the Fall of man. Thus upon this point there is no conflict between the
Scriptures and geology.
It does not follow, because man was created immortal, that his permanent abiding
place was to be this world. The OT Scriptures give two examples of men, Enoch and
Elijah, who passed into the other world but “did not see death.” (See Martensen’s
Christ. Dogm., Watson’s Institutes, Pope’s Compend. Christ. Theol., Laidlaw’s Bible
Doctrine Concerning Man.) E.MCC.
BIBLIOGRAPHY: L. A. Muirhead, The Terms Life and Death in the Old and New
Testament (1908); R. A. S. Macalister, The Philistines: Their History and Civilization
(1914); W. M. F. Petrie, Social Life in Ancient Egypt (1932); L. L. Morris, The Wages
of Sin (1955); G. Murray, Five Stages of Greek Religion (1955); L. Boettner,
Immortality (1958); T. C. Vriezen, Outline of Old Testament Theology (1958); R.
Summers, The Life Beyond (1959); R. Martin-Achard, From Death to Life: A Study of
the Development of the Doctrine of the Resurrection in the Old Testament (1960); L.
L. Morris, The Biblical Doctrine of Judgement (1960); A. H. Gardiner, Egypt of the
Pharaohs (1961); S. N. Kramer, The Sumerians: Their History, Culture and
Character (1963); R. H. Barrow, The Romans (1964); R. H. Charles, Eschatology:
Hebrew, Jewish, and Christian (1964); H. D. F. Kitto, The Greeks (1964); G. L.
Dickinson, The Greek View of Life (1966); J. Carcopino, Daily Life in Ancient Rome
(1966); J. A. Motyer, After Death: A Sure and Certain Hope? (1966); H. Thielicke,
Death and Life (1970).

From a philosophical angle--

 

[amigo de christo]

DEATH. A term that, in its application to the lower orders of living things, as animals
and plants, denotes the extinction of vital functions, so that their renewal is
impossible. With reference to human beings the term is variously defined according to
the view held of human nature and life. The answer to the question, What is death?
depends upon the answer given in the first place to the question, What is man?

Scripture Doctrine. The general teaching of the Scriptures is that man is not only
a physical but also a spiritual being; accordingly, death is not the end of human
existence, but a change of place or conditions in which conscious existence continues.

(1) The doctrine of the future life is less emphatically taught in the OT than in the NT.
The OT Scriptures, however, frequently refer to death in terms harmonious with that
doctrine (Eccles. 12:7; 2 Sam. 12:23; Ps. 73:24; Job 14:14; Isa. 28:12). (2) In the NT
this dark subject receives special illumination. In many cases essentially the same
forms of representation are employed. Death is “a departure,” a “being absent from

MT Masoretic Text
H.F.V. Howard F. Vos
the body,” an “unclothing,” a “sleep,” but with all is the clear and strong
announcement that Christ “brought life and immortality to light through the gospel”
(2 Cor. 5:1–4; John 11:13; 2 Tim. 1:10; 4:6–7; etc.). (3) Death as a human experience,
according to the Scriptures, is the result and punishment of sin. “The wages of sin is
death.” And though the word is often used in a spiritual sense to denote the ruin
wrought in man’s spiritual nature by sin, yet in the ordinary physical sense of the
word, death is declared to have come upon the human race in consequence of sin. No
such declaration is made as to the death of lower creatures (Gen. 2:17; 3:19; Rom.
5:12; 6:23; James 1:15). (4) A principal part of Christ’s redemptive work is the
abolishment of death. This is seen in part in man’s present state, in the salvation that
Christ effects from sin, which is “the sting of death,” and in the taking away of the
fear of death from true believers. The complete work of Christ in this respect will
appear in the resurrection (2 Tim. 1:10; 1 Cor. 15:22, 56–57; Heb. 2:14–15).
Man and Lower Creatures.

The Scriptures make a deep distinction between the
death of human beings and that of irrational creatures. For the latter it is the natural
end of the existence; for the former it is an unnatural experience to which they are
reduced because of sin, which is also unnatural. Man was not created to die.
The Scriptures nowhere affirm that death did not prevail over the lower creatures
before the Fall of man. Thus upon this point there is no conflict between the
Scriptures and geology.
It does not follow, because man was created immortal, that his permanent abiding
place was to be this world. The OT Scriptures give two examples of men, Enoch and
Elijah, who passed into the other world but “did not see death.” (See Martensen’s
Christ. Dogm., Watson’s Institutes, Pope’s Compend. Christ. Theol., Laidlaw’s Bible
Doctrine Concerning Man.) E.MCC.
BIBLIOGRAPHY: L. A. Muirhead, The Terms Life and Death in the Old and New
Testament (1908); R. A. S. Macalister, The Philistines: Their History and Civilization
(1914); W. M. F. Petrie, Social Life in Ancient Egypt (1932); L. L. Morris, The Wages
of Sin (1955); G. Murray, Five Stages of Greek Religion (1955); L. Boettner,
Immortality (1958); T. C. Vriezen, Outline of Old Testament Theology (1958); R.
Summers, The Life Beyond (1959); R. Martin-Achard, From Death to Life: A Study of
the Development of the Doctrine of the Resurrection in the Old Testament (1960); L.
L. Morris, The Biblical Doctrine of Judgement (1960); A. H. Gardiner, Egypt of the
Pharaohs (1961); S. N. Kramer, The Sumerians: Their History, Culture and
Character (1963); R. H. Barrow, The Romans (1964); R. H. Charles, Eschatology:
Hebrew, Jewish, and Christian (1964); H. D. F. Kitto, The Greeks (1964); G. L.
Dickinson, The Greek View of Life (1966); J. Carcopino, Daily Life in Ancient Rome
(1966); J. A. Motyer, After Death: A Sure and Certain Hope? (1966); H. Thielicke,
Death and Life (1970).

From a philosophical angle--

Imagine a room full of sins and lusts . Imagine the room filled with many peoples dancing and living in it
then imagine in a far corner a man lying dead in a coffin . The man in the coffin is how we are to be to sin
The sin crucified in the flesh by the power of Christ , the indwelling of HIS Spirit .
Alive in Christ , in newness of life and not living in sin and obeying the lusts of the flesh , but rather
By the power of the indwelling Spirit , which gives us the desires and ability to do that which is pleasing in His sight .
And daily , by His grace , die daily . Let not the old man flutter even his eylids to open and try to live again .
For the flesh is contrary to the SPIRIT and into our minds the flesh will pop all kinds of evils
but by the SPIRIT crucify the thoughts and they will not be acted , lived out . Just a friendly reminder
of what so many no longer teach . A reminder of the power of the RISEN SAVOIR
that dwells within the believer , so that the believer now has by that grace both the desires and ability to
do that which pleases God . Now lift those hands johann . Lift them and praise the LORD .
And let us stir one another up to do good and exhort to flee all appearance of evil .

 

[Lambano]

The scripture uses "dead" as a metaphor for all sorts of things. For those metaphors to be meaningful, "dead" means "dead". Which means, "not alive".