When the gathering to our Lord Isn't

[avoice]

When the gathering to the lord isnt

The rapture argument will never end those who believe it will continue to,those who dont cant be convinced ....

But its the wrong argument to begin with

so theres never an answer because its an argument of men ........The argument isnt if he said this and meant it , no one can deny he did.

1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

What an amazing promise ! One of the most looked forward to verse's in all scripture. How wonderful.

The only logical question then is when ?

Surely God knew this would be the number #1 question of all believers.
He says he foretels us all things so surlely he addressed this question.
Sense it was brought up in the first letter to Thessalonians
It doesnt take a colledge education to figure out maybe he expaned on the details in the next letter he wrote to them that followed closely after the first letter.

The second letter he gives grettings then gets to the point ....What is the point of the letter ? What is he going to discuss

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him,

Just as the first statement in 1st Thess. can not be denied niether can the second Paul is going to tell us about the gathering to the Lord.

2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

Dont be troubled in your spirit, nor by any words you hear nor by the first letter I send you ... Paul is telling them not to be concerned because he is going to explain this

gathering to the Lord

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Let no man that means any man ...So we are not to listen to men any of them reguardless of credituals or claims ... God is going to tell you the truth of the facts right here.

so you have no need to listen to any man ....

that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition

Now if there is any argument to be had on this subject it lies in the meaning of this verse ..

What is the falling away and who is the man of sin the son of predition ?

Its the only argument to be had about the gathering to the lord.

There can be no question the gathering to our Lord Will not come until these things happen.

Anyone wanting to truly understand Gods Word on this gathering to him.. must find the answer to this question
or you are doing exactly what you were told not to do

listening to men and being troubled by the 1st letter of Thessalonians.

The gathering to our Lord is not, will not, occur until 2 Thess2:3 is fullfilled.

Thats is Gods Word on it.

　

 

[avoice]

When the gathering to the lord isnt

The rapture argument will never end those who believe it will continue to,those who dont cant be convinced ....

But its the wrong argument to begin with

so theres never an answer because its an argument of men ........The argument isnt if he said this and meant it , no one can deny he did.

1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

What an amazing promise ! One of the most looked forward to verse's in all scripture. How wonderful.

The only logical question then is when ?

Surely God knew this would be the number #1 question of all believers.
He says he foretels us all things so surlely he addressed this question.
Sense it was brought up in the first letter to Thessalonians
It doesnt take a colledge education to figure out maybe he expaned on the details in the next letter he wrote to them that followed closely after the first letter.

The second letter he gives grettings then gets to the point ....What is the point of the letter ? What is he going to discuss

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him,

Just as the first statement in 1st Thess. can not be denied niether can the second Paul is going to tell us about the gathering to the Lord.

2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

Dont be troubled in your spirit, nor by any words you hear nor by the first letter I send you ... Paul is telling them not to be concerned because he is going to explain this

gathering to the Lord

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Let no man that means any man ...So we are not to listen to men any of them reguardless of credituals or claims ... God is going to tell you the truth of the facts right here.

so you have no need to listen to any man ....

that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition

Now if there is any argument to be had on this subject it lies in the meaning of this verse ..

What is the falling away and who is the man of sin the son of predition ?

Its the only argument to be had about the gathering to the lord.

There can be no question the gathering to our Lord Will not come until these things happen.

Anyone wanting to truly understand Gods Word on this gathering to him.. must find the answer to this question
or you are doing exactly what you were told not to do

listening to men and being troubled by the 1st letter of Thessalonians.

The gathering to our Lord is not, will not, occur until 2 Thess2:3 is fullfilled.

Thats is Gods Word on it.

　

If anyone wants to really learn who this man of sin is there is very good study here that Eccl 12:13 has done that takes one through it
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/14023-can-jesus-christ-second-return-happen-at-any-moment-pt-1/

 

[veteran]

When the gathering to the lord isnt

The rapture argument will never end those who believe it will continue to,those who dont cant be convinced ....

But its the wrong argument to begin with

so theres never an answer because its an argument of men ........The argument isnt if he said this and meant it , no one can deny he did.

1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

What an amazing promise ! One of the most looked forward to verse's in all scripture. How wonderful.

The only logical question then is when ?

Surely God knew this would be the number #1 question of all believers.
He says he foretels us all things so surlely he addressed this question.
Sense it was brought up in the first letter to Thessalonians
It doesnt take a colledge education to figure out maybe he expaned on the details in the next letter he wrote to them that followed closely after the first letter.

The second letter he gives grettings then gets to the point ....What is the point of the letter ? What is he going to discuss

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him,

Just as the first statement in 1st Thess. can not be denied niether can the second Paul is going to tell us about the gathering to the Lord.

2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

Dont be troubled in your spirit, nor by any words you hear nor by the first letter I send you ... Paul is telling them not to be concerned because he is going to explain this

gathering to the Lord

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Let no man that means any man ...So we are not to listen to men any of them reguardless of credituals or claims ... God is going to tell you the truth of the facts right here.

so you have no need to listen to any man ....

that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition

Now if there is any argument to be had on this subject it lies in the meaning of this verse ..

What is the falling away and who is the man of sin the son of predition ?

Its the only argument to be had about the gathering to the lord.

There can be no question the gathering to our Lord Will not come until these things happen.

Anyone wanting to truly understand Gods Word on this gathering to him.. must find the answer to this question
or you are doing exactly what you were told not to do

listening to men and being troubled by the 1st letter of Thessalonians.

The gathering to our Lord is not, will not, occur until 2 Thess2:3 is fullfilled.

Thats is Gods Word on it.

Not ONLY does it depend on verse 3 being fulfilled, but also verses 4 and 8 about the time of that false one being 'revealed'.


II Th 2:3-4
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
(KJV)

II Th 2:8
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming:
(KJV)

 

[avoice]

Not ONLY does it depend on verse 3 being fulfilled, but also verses 4 and 8 about the time of that false one being 'revealed'.


II Th 2:3-4
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
(KJV)

II Th 2:8
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming:
(KJV)

Your right of course but my intent wasn't to address who the man is nor even give my opinion
but to make it as simple as possible for those who truly are confused
as to what they believe...
to know exactly where God says the timing of any gathering to him must start
If you dont use the very timing of this "man of sin coming first"

Then figure out who the man is and when he comes
You just simply are defying the Word of God.Not an accusation just plain fact

All rapture/gathering to the lord arguments are null and void without addressing this issue. no matter what verse one uses to distract from the issue.

for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

 

[[email protected]]

When the gathering to the lord isnt

The rapture argument will never end those who believe it will continue to,those who dont cant be convinced ....

But its the wrong argument to begin with

Good post to start the thread. I didn't quote all of it here, but it does appeal to reason.

The problem with all the rapture rhetoric is that reason is seldom applied to the problem. Quoting scripture left and right, opponents on all sides of the argument march into battle thinking that all they've got to do is constantly repeat the same old words and - PRESTO - everything will happen according to their wishes like magic.

It doesn't work with a five year old who demands candy and it won't budge God an inch on His agenda.

Scripture was given to guide man, not to motivate the Most High.
When it's used to beat other people over the head with our own agenda it accomplishes nothing.

 

[veteran]

Your right of course but my intent wasn't to address who the man is nor even give my opinion
but to make it as simple as possible for those who truly are confused
as to what they believe...
to know exactly where God says the timing of any gathering to him must start
If you dont use the very timing of this "man of sin coming first"

Then figure out who the man is and when he comes
You just simply are defying the Word of God.Not an accusation just plain fact

All rapture/gathering to the lord arguments are null and void without addressing this issue. no matter what verse one uses to distract from the issue.

for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

I understand your intent, nor do I doubt Paul's giving 2 Thess.2:1-4 means first knowing the timing of that man of sin depends on understanding the timing of our gathering to Christ.

But you may be missing something about that 'man of sin coming first' idea which Paul spoke of.

II Th 2:3-4
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
(KJV)

Some on this forum are busy preaching that falling away period comes first, and then aftewards the man of sin arrives. The idea of 'revealed' is very important in Paul's Message in 2 Thess.2, for he applies it two ways, affecting two different groups.


II Th 2:6-7
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
(KJV)

Who is that man of sin revealed to per that? The deceived, or to Christ's faithful? It's not just about his showing up. It's about the revealing of his identity as the man of sin. During the 2 Thess.2:3-4 timing, his identity is not revealed for the deceived, not until the following timing will the deceived know his identity...


II Th 2:8
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming:
(KJV)

The Greek word for "revealed" in all those verses is 'apokalupto' (to take off the cover, i.e., disclose - Strong's no. 601). There's two main events how Paul applied it there: 1) arrival of that man of sin to do the false working of miracles to fool the deceived into thinking he is God; and 2) the identity of that man of sin when Christ returns to destroy him.

Christ's saints are to know both. But the deceived will not know, which is WHY the deceived will be fooled into thinking he is God. And those deceived will include deceived Christian brethren that don't stay on watch in God's Word about the times and the seasons given about it in God's Word.

In essence then, the deceived are not going to recognize when that man of sin comes at all, for they will wrongly see him as God instead, sitting in the Temple of God, showing himself that he is God. That's the center of Paul's "strong delusion" idea in the later 2 Thess.2:11 verse.