2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
This gathering is another way to speak of the rapture. Christ used this same language:
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
There is no doubt that both speak of the coming of Christ and the rapture which is the gathering of the saints. Because pretribbers are so loyal to their doctrine, they are forced to deny the rapture is spoken of in Matthew 24 despite that it clearly is described.
Christ places the Rapture after the GT ends, which is Post-trib. This matches what Paul said about the timing of the Rapture. Never, not a single time, is the rapture placed before the GT.
satan is bound and imprisoned LONG AFTER the great commission ends.
Is the church raptured LONG AFTER the great commission ends?
Is the Second Coming LONG AFTER the great commission ends?
How long is LONG AFTER?
What is the church doing on earth during this long period where there is no longer the great commission?
According to some posters here, the tribulation started when Adam disobeyed God. Obviously the Second Coming and rapture did not happen prior to Adam's disobedience.
I wish people here could define their definition of tribulation more precisely. Are you saying there is a tribulation that coincides with the Great Commission and then other types of tribulation since Adam disobeyed? What about Jacob's trouble also called the Great Tribulation? Does the Great Commission stop when Jacob's trouble begins? Do the 144k carry out the Great Commission or is both the church and the 144k doing the same thing on earth at the same time, and neither doing the Great Commission?
BTW:
John in Revelation 6 places the Second Coming prior to the 7th Seal and all the Trumpets.
I know you think John is seeing a prophecy. Unless of course he is seeing the real thing as all the events are prophecies of things to come, and not past events.
When was there ever a prophecy of a prophecy recorded in Scripture?
In Matthew 13, Jesus is on the earth with His angels for the final harvest. In Matthew 25, Jesus is on the earth with His angels for the final harvest. The final harvest is the Great Tribulation, and it is after the tribulation of those days, which is the tribulation of the church that started at Pentecost.
Matthew 24:4-14 is the tribulation of those days. Then the end comes.
At verse 15, Jesus does not start over from the beginning at the Cross. At verse 15, Jesus starts from the end and works back to the parable of the fig tree. The fig tree blooming is the last event in reverse order from the end.
So many get confused. They think the Gospel stops, then the AoD, then the Great Tribulation, then the Second Coming, and then Israel becomes a Nation. No.
Israel became a Nation decades ago. Next comes the Second Coming, then the GT, and then the AoD, and then the end. The Gospel is heard all the way to the end. People are still choosing to chop their heads off, up until the 2 witnesses are killed. That is 3.5 days before the end. Since Armageddon is the end no one is left on earth to harvest after Armageddon.
John gives us the chronological order in the symbolism of what happens.
The church is sealed up in the Lamb's book of life. The church is removed before the last Seal is opened. Israel is removed during the Trumpets. The wheat and tares or many from all nations are removed during the Thunders. All are being removed from the earth, most cast into the LOF literally alive.
"Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire,"
"As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world."
Not sent to the grave. They are not physically dead. They are all living, breathing humans judged or harvested directly into the LOF.
This is the final harvest after the Second Coming and rapture. Jesus is on the earth. His angels are casting humanity into the LOF. This is an ongoing process until the 7th Trumpet sounds. Then the AoD will happen at that point. Then the harvest are those beheaded souls, who are literally beheaded. Those with the mark will either die over the next 42 months, or all be killed at Armageddon. That will be the last of humanity.
People really need to specify tribulation instead of just saying it has been sin since Adam disobeyed. When the church stops sinning is when the church is raptured. That will always be after the tribulation of those days ie living in sin, even the church lives in sin, if that is the way some want to phrase it. But that living in sin stops at the Second Coming before the GT tribulation. Because the GT is the harvest, not the sin or trouble that is center stage. Sin and trouble is just generic compared to the billions being cast alive into the LOF. Seems that point is glossed over in mere human theological belief systems. Seems they think people are just going on a vacation instead of their eternal destination.
John tells us 25% are killed during the Seals. 33% during the Trumpets. 100% at Armageddon. We are missing the percentage of the Thunders. But between 33% and 100% would more than likely be 50%. At least 2 billion at every step gone. Only those redeemed will return on those white horses in Revelation 19.
