When the Year of the Second Coming Will Be, the Millennial Shabbat of the Year 6000 YB, Jubilees

[biloqewu]

It's not "mercy" because from Adam until when Jesus declares "let him...be unjust still" and "let him...be holy still", the only hope for the salvation of the sinner is that he accept by faith that he is saved by "grace through faith"..."the just shall live by faith".

You say "by faith for some, by sight for others"...

...when last day sinners see all the Christians and babies vanish in the "secret rapture" or some other supernatural event that renders faith no longer necessary because for the first time, sinners will not only have their evidence God exists...but also a Second Chance to get right with God that was denied everyone else up until that time, right? I guess all that "watch and be ready" and "Today, if you hear his voice..." stuff doesn't matter, right? Sorry, "God is no respecter of persons". No Second Chance, only a Second Coming. Not "mercy", injustice.

God grants mercy to whoever he pleases. And he also denies mercy to whoever he pleases. Mercy has nothing to do with justice, we all deserve to die according to the Torah of God. Mercy means that God does not render the death we deserve, which will be the case with some at the second coming of the Messiah, which will be the lame, as it is written, "I will gather the lame, and make a strong nation out of them, and rule over them from Mount Zion". Even so, did the Israelites not witness the power of God with plagues against Egypt and deliverance from slavery, yet because of their disobedience and even lack of belief, as was seen with Moses, were prevented from entering the land of their inheritance? Belief is something that will never disappear, neither in this aeon, nor in the next aeon, nor in the aeons of the new heaven and new earth. Belief, hope, love always remain.

 

[Phoneman777]

It is a long accepted figure speech it is the same as I couldn't care more or I don't care at all. Take your pick.

Sorry, but words matter...like when Peter says when Jesus comes as a "thief in the night" all chance of Earthly habitation is gone. No "last seven years of tribulation", not "reigning with Jesus on Earth over the wicked for a thousand years", no nothing, just a hunk of destroyed rock that God will, after the thousand year reign of Jesus and His saints in heaven, will transport the celestial city to Earth, wrap up His business with the wicked which will at that time be resurrected, stand in judgment, be executed, and then make the New Heaven and New Earth.

 

[biloqewu]

Once again, the Scriptures do not support your claims:

"...shall that great Wicked by revealed Whom the Lord (Jesus Christ or "Yeshuah" as you put it) shall consume with the Spirit of His mouth and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming." (1 Thessalonians 2:7)

"And out of His mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it He should smite the nations: and He shall rule them with a rod of iron ("break" and "dash into pieces" is how He will rule them, according to Psalm 2:9 and Daniel 2:44) and He treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And He hath on [His] vesture and on His thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS." (Revelation 19:15-16)

You've corrupted that text, "shall that great Wicked by revealed Whom the Lord". This is a prophecy speaking of the lawless one, the antichrist, which the book of Daniel tells us the Messiah will destroy at his second coming be throwing him into the lake of lava alive.

 

[Phoneman777]

God grants mercy to whoever he pleases. And he also denies mercy to whoever he pleases. Mercy has nothing to do with justice, we all deserve to die according to the Torah of God. Mercy means that God does not render the death we deserve, which will be the case with some at the second coming of the Messiah, which will be the lame, as it is written, "I will gather the lame, and make a strong nation out of them, and rule over them from Mount Zion". Even so, did the Israelites not witness the power of God with plagues against Egypt and deliverance from slavery, yet because of their disobedience and even lack of belief, as was seen with Moses, were prevented from entering the land of their inheritance? Belief is something that will never disappear, neither in this aeon, nor in the next aeon, nor in the aeons of the new heaven and new earth. Belief, hope, love always remain.

You got everything so unbelievably backwards, friend:

God since time immemorial has always poured out His judgments mixed with mercy (Psalms 103:10) and such mercy towards us has been at times even beyond reason (e.g., Methuselah's unnaturally prolonged life, the end of which would cue the Flood)...but in the end, His judgments are poured out "without mixture into the cup of His indignation"...

...yet YOU claim that at that time when Scripture says He's to pour out that unmixed cup of wrath, He is going to pour out His greatest ever demonstration of mercy to the world: visual evidence that He exists AND a Second Chance to be saved proffered to no one else in history up until that time. Not buying it.

 

[Phoneman777]

ABSURD!!! Total Private interpretation. You have take excessive liberties with the idea that a few of the passages in Revelation are out of chronological sequence to adjust scripture to fit your agenda. You're not a believer of scripture - you're a manipulator of scripture.

Absurd? It is YOU who are insisting that Revelation is in chronological order, and I've just shown you that what is written in verse 5 is NOT in chronological order than that in verse 1. Hebrew Chiastic Structure is not absurd - what's absurd is disregarding it while attempting to understand prophecy. It is YOU to which the proverb "placing a sword in the hands of a child" applies with your reckless handling of the Sword of the Spirit.

 

[Phoneman777]

You've corrupted that text, "shall that great Wicked by revealed Whom the Lord". This is a prophecy speaking of the lawless one, the antichrist, which the book of Daniel tells us the Messiah will destroy at his second coming be throwing him into the lake of lava alive.

I've corrupted nothing - I've proven that no sinner can stand in the sight of a glorified, holy God by several examples, yet YOU have yet to offer a single Biblical precedent where a sinner stood in the presence of God and did not give up the ghost. Still waiting.

 

[CoreIssue]

Once again, the Scriptures do not support your claims:

"...shall that great Wicked by revealed Whom the Lord (Jesus Christ or "Yeshuah" as you put it) shall consume with the Spirit of His mouth and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming." (1 Thessalonians 2:7)

"And out of His mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it He should smite the nations: and He shall rule them with a rod of iron ("break" and "dash into pieces" is how He will rule them, according to Psalm 2:9 and Daniel 2:44) and He treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And He hath on [His] vesture and on His thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS." (Revelation 19:15-16)

Sorry, but words matter...like when Peter says when Jesus comes as a "thief in the night" all chance of Earthly habitation is gone. No "last seven years of tribulation", not "reigning with Jesus on Earth over the wicked for a thousand years", no nothing, just a hunk of destroyed rock that God will, after the thousand year reign of Jesus and His saints in heaven, will transport the celestial city to Earth, wrap up His business with the wicked which will at that time be resurrected, stand in judgment, be executed, and then make the New Heaven and New Earth.

Words do matter.

You are talking about Christ here, not the father.

But then again you have convoluted everything so much is hard to keep it all straight.

There are two thief in the night the Bible one at the pretrip rapture and one at the end of time. But you try to make them one event.

You've created a biblical Gideons knot.

You quoted first Thessalonians incorrectly,

1 Thessalonians 2:7 New International Version (NIV)
7 Instead, we were like young childrena]">[a] among you.

Just as a nursing mother cares for her children,

 

[biloqewu]

You got everything so unbelievably backwards, friend:

God since time immemorial has always poured out His judgments mixed with mercy (Psalms 103:10) and such mercy towards us has been at times even beyond reason (e.g., Methuselah's unnaturally prolonged life, the end of which would cue the Flood)...but in the end, His judgments are poured out "without mixture into the cup of His indignation"...

...yet YOU claim that at that time when Scripture says He's to pour out that unmixed cup of wrath, He is going to pour out His greatest ever demonstration of mercy to the world: visual evidence that He exists AND a Second Chance to be saved proffered to no one else in history up until that time. Not buying it.

What incredible mercy are you talking about? THE ENTIRE WORLD IS GOING TO BE DESTROYED THROUGH PLAGUES, THE SEVEN BOWLS OF WRATH OF REVELATION. The Messiah isn't coming to bring laughter and joy to the earth, he is coming to bring destruction and death, yet few will be be granted mercy and spared and permitted to live on after this destruction, which will be the the ones the people of God and the Messiah will rule over for a thousand years. Why is this so difficult to understand? I am tired of explaining this to you with various scriptures and explanations. You are a stubborn person that refuses to understand the truth.

 

[biloqewu]

I've corrupted nothing - I've proven that no sinner can stand in the sight of a glorified, holy God by several examples, yet YOU have yet to offer a single Biblical precedent where a sinner stood in the presence of God and did not give up the ghost. Still waiting.

I already showed you the scriptures where the nations will go up to worship Yeshuah during the thousand year rulership of the Messiah. These are the nations that will be righteous during his rulership, but will then become evil when Satan is released to deceive them. This is what the book of Revelation teaches, PLAINLY.

 

[Phoneman777]

There are two thief in the night the Bible one at the pretrip rapture and one at the end of time. But you try to make them one event.

Friend, it is literally impossible for there to be two "thief in the night" events. Let's assume for a moment Jesus does come back as a thief in the night and all the saints disappear in a "secret" Rapture.

Do you really think anyone will forget the very day and hour of the most incredible event to ever take place since the dawn of Earth's history? Of course not. Every single person "left behind" will either immediately know or soon find out that Jesus has come as a thief and those left behind are going through a 7 years tribulation, after which Jesus will come gloriously, cacaphonically, and experientially.

Question: How in the world can Jesus' return at the end of the 7 years be "secret" when every single person on Earth will know when that happens just by counting down 7 years from the date of His coming as a thief in the "secret" Rapture?

If you argue that this second "thief in the night" event happens after the 1,000 years, that still holds no water, for all that need be done is count 7 years from the "secret" Rapture and then add another 1,000 years to find that date, as well.

 

[Phoneman777]

What incredible mercy are you talking about?

Did you not claim that God granting the last day people of Earth a "Second Chance" to get right with Him during the 7 years of tribulation" is an act of "mercy" and that it is His prerogative to either grant or withhold mercy to us as He sees fit, after I pointed out what colossal injustice it would be for God to withhold such monumental evidence of His existence and His sovereignty from all the ages before? Yes, you did, and my reply was that such "mercy" would be the greatest act of mercy ever shown by Him to mankind (undeniable evidence of His existence and power) and that doing so is totally inconsistent with Biblical teaching for the reasons I gave in post 168. If you're not going to read my posts, please say so and save me the trouble.

 

[Phoneman777]

I already showed you the scriptures where the nations will go up to worship Yeshuah during the thousand year rulership of the Messiah. These are the nations that will be righteous during his rulership, but will then become evil when Satan is released to deceive them. This is what the book of Revelation teaches, PLAINLY.

I've already shown you that the condition of the Earth after Jesus comes for His saints won't be anywhere near that which will sustain any form of living organism much less humans. You're denying plain laws of nature and physics in order to establish your idea that life will continue on after the cataclysmic event that will be the Second Coming of Jesus.

 

[CoreIssue]

Friend, it is literally impossible for there to be two "thief in the night" events. Let's assume for a moment Jesus does come back as a thief in the night and all the saints disappear in a "secret" Rapture.

Do you really think anyone will forget the very day and hour of the most incredible event to ever take place since the dawn of Earth's history? Of course not. Every single person "left behind" will either immediately know or soon find out that Jesus has come as a thief and those left behind are going through a 7 years tribulation, after which Jesus will come gloriously, cacaphonically, and experientially.

Question: How in the world can Jesus' return at the end of the 7 years be "secret" when every single person on Earth will know when that happens just by counting down 7 years from the date of His coming as a thief in the "secret" Rapture?

If you argue that this second "thief in the night" event happens after the 1,000 years, that still holds no water, for all that need be done is count 7 years from the "secret" Rapture and then add another 1,000 years to find that date, as well.

They are a thousand years apart and today we have people denying the Holocaust ever happened. So yeah, I believe it.

People who think Hitler was a good guy. Admire Putin and Castro. Save the great flood never happened and Christ never lived. Believe the universe exists without explanation.

So how can you say it won't happen?

And after a thousand years on the earth there still will be people who will follow Satan an attack Jerusalem and Christ. So yes I believe it.

The return at the end of the seven year tribulation is not secret. The whole world will see him.

The thief in the night rapture event is before the tribulation. He comes hidden in the clouds.

As for setting a date for the second, the thousand years is approximate.

And humans have the amazing ability, as I pointed out, to forget things they don't believe or don't want to remember.

History is loaded with proof.

 

[biloqewu]

I've already shown you that the condition of the Earth after Jesus comes for His saints won't be anywhere near that which will sustain any form of living organism much less humans. You're denying plain laws of nature and physics in order to establish your idea that life will continue on after the cataclysmic event that will be the Second Coming of Jesus.

I am tired of arguing with you. You're in error, and you're stubborn, and aside from all the scriptures that I quoted that prove this, the one obvious prophecy that proves this beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are in error and that there will be survivors ON THIS EARTH after the second coming is this one,

And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison and will come out to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea. (Revelation 20:7-8)

These people that will be deceived by Satan will not be us, who inherited the kingdom of God at his second coming, and ruled with the Messiah over this earth, but it will be nations that descended from the few that were granted mercy to live from among the nations. You are not in the truth and have discarded, twisted, and ignored many prophecies that reveal what the truth is. So be it, remain in your own deception. Your rejection of the truth demonstrates that you yourself have been rejected from God, because your heart has been hardened and prevented from attaining the truth that I have been telling you for days. And there is no amount of scripture I can quote that will cause you to believe, not because what I am telling you is not the truth, but because your heart has been hardened to prevent you from seeing and understanding the obvious truth. As such, I have nothing further to say to you, because there are wise sayings that say, "if a wise man and a fool argue, there is no resolution" and "do not cast your pearls to swine". If you don't want to believe in the truth, then don't believe in the truth. That is your problem, not mine. May someone else benefit from this conversation and see your folly.

 

[Phoneman777]

They are a thousand years apart and today we have people denying the Holocaust ever happened. So yeah, I believe it.

No one denies that Jews died in an obscure corner of the Earth in German camps - what's denied is the NUMBER - but it is entirely unreasonable for you to suggest this as a basis for the idea that the whole world will deny what was 1,000 years earlier an anything-but-obscure global catastrophic event where loved ones from every single corner of the Earth disappeared before the eyes of the people. Only the village idiot would do that. "Thief in the night" denotes "total unawareness by the village", so you in effect are suggesting that:

• the entire village will have forgotten or denied the "thief in the night" coming of Jesus 1,000 years before
• the entire village will witness the glorified Jesus and the saints having reigned over them for 1,000 years but won't believe the warnings given to prepare for your so called "second thief in the night coming"
• the glorified Jesus and His saints will withhold any warning of a coming "thief in the night" and leave them clueless.

Can you see the giant plot holes that your ideas present? Why won't you believe that there is only ONE SINGLE "thief in the night" coming, and it is the visible, audible, experiential, glorified coming of Jesus when:

• the saints are taken back to heaven for a thousand years to reign with Christ and review the judgment books while
• the wicked along with the Earth are destroyed and it will remain as such until the end of the 1,000 years when
• God relocates the celestial city to Earth where the wicked are resurrected, judged, executed, and then
• the Earth and the heavens are made new forever with the saints who - having gone over the cases of the wicked for the last 1,000 years - will proclaim "just and true are Thy ways, O king of saints!"

...an interpretation for which there is not a SINGLE plot hole.

 

[CoreIssue]

No one denies that Jews died in an obscure corner of the Earth in German camps - what's denied is the NUMBER - but it is entirely unreasonable to suggest that as a basis for the whole world denying a worldwide, visible disappearance of loved ones from every single corner of the Earth 1,000 years in the past. Only the village idiot would do that, and how is that even possible if a glorified Jesus and His glorified saints will have reigned over the village for 1,000 years? "Thief in the night" denotes "total unawareness by the village", so you in effect are suggesting that:

• the entire village will have forgotten or denied the "thief in the night" coming of Jesus 1,000 years before
• the entire village will witness the glorified Jesus and the saints having reigned over them for 1,000 years but won't believe the warnings given to prepare for your so called "second thief in the night coming"
• the glorified Jesus and His saints will withhold any warning of a coming "thief in the night" and leave them clueless.

Can you see the giant plot holes that your ideas present? Why won't you believe that there is only ONE SINGLE "thief in the night coming, and it is the visible, audible, experiential, glorified coming of Jesus when:

• the saints are taken back to heaven for a thousand years to reign with Christ and review the judgment books while
• the wicked along with the Earth are destroyed and it will remain as such until the end of the 1,000 years when
• God relocates the celestial city to Earth where the wicked are resurrected, judged, executed, and then
• the Earth and the heavens are made new forever with the saints - having gone over the cases of the wicked for the last 1,000 years - will proclaim "just and true are Thy ways, O king of saints!"

...an interpretation for which there is not a SINGLE plot hole.

There are a lots of deniers in the world.

Germany is not an obscure corner of the earth. What nation didn't know about the death camps. Including Russia that had its own.

Your arguments have no factual basis.

 

[Phoneman777]

And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison and will come out to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea. (Revelation 20:7-8)

I'm tired of arguing with YOU who refuse to accept the truth. These "nations" are the post-1,000 year, freshly resurrected wicked which the devil will go forth from his "prison of circumstances" (do you really think "literal" chains and walls prisons can bind real demons when even the demoniac of Gadara being a mere man broke his own chains?) where he spent the last 1,000 years with absolutely nothing to do but look around at the destruction he caused, and get to work deceiving those freshly resurrected wicked to fight against the inhabitants of the city that has just descended.

Once again you have FAILED to offer a single text suggesting a sinful man is able to live in the presence of a glorified God.
Once again you have FAILED to explain how life can continue on an Earth the Bible depicts as having been totally annihilated.
Once again you have FAILED to explain the other plot holes I've exposed in your ideas.
Once again you have FAILED to expose any plot holes in my interpretations.

 

[CoreIssue]

I'm tired of arguing with YOU who refuse to accept the truth. These "nations" are the post-1,000 year, freshly resurrected wicked which the devil will go forth from his "prison of circumstances" (do you really think "literal" chains and walls prisons can bind real demons when even the demoniac of Gadara being a mere man broke his own chains?) where he spent the last 1,000 years with absolutely nothing to do but look around at the destruction he caused, and get to work deceiving those freshly resurrected wicked to fight against the inhabitants of the city that has just descended.

Once again you have FAILED to offer a single text suggesting a sinful man is able to live in the presence of a glorified God.
Once again you have FAILED to explain how life can continue on an Earth the Bible depicts as having been totally annihilated.
Once again you have FAILED to explain the other plot holes I've exposed in your ideas.
Once again you have FAILED to expose any plot holes in my interpretations.

You have failed to provide a single verse that says there will be a resurrection of the wicked on this earth.

The Bible says the fallen angels, not demons, are chained in the pit.

Prison of circumstances is a pure invention.

Wherever you're getting this from, it isn't the Bible.

 

[Phoneman777]

There are a lots of deniers in the world.

Germany is not an obscure corner of the earth. What nation didn't know about the death camps. Including Russia that had its own.

Your arguments have no factual basis.

Now you deny reality.

• There are NOT "lots of people" who deny Jews died in the Holocaust, just lots that deny 6M Jews died.
• The land mass of Germany is NOTHING compared the entire land mass of Earth which a "thief in the night" rapture of the saints will affect
• Claiming it is just as easy for a world population to deny an event that caused the disappearance of their loved ones 1,000 years in the past as it is for people to deny that the number of Jews who died in a single obscure corner of Earth in Germany isn't 6 Million but a far lower number, is just completely unreasonable - just like your entire idea about "two thief in the night" coming events of Jesus.

 

[Phoneman777]

You have failed to provide a single verse that says there will be a resurrection of the wicked on this earth.

Proverbs 11:31 "Behold, the righteous shall be recompensed IN THE EARTH: much more the wicked and the sinner."

If the sinners all drop dead at the glorious coming of Jesus:

• "at the presence of the Lord and by His fierce anger" (Jeremiah 4:23-26),
• when He comes to destroy the Man of Sin "with the brightness of His coming" (2 Thessalonians 2:8),
• when "the slain of the Lord at that day shall be from one end...to the other end of the Earth" (Jeremiah 25:30-33)
• when "the Lord will come with fire...and the slain of the Lord shall be many (Isaiah 66:15-17)

...just where, pray tell, should we expect the wicked to rise when they are resurrected? Any sane man would say at the spot right where they dropped dead. What say you?

The Bible says the fallen angels, not demons, are chained in the pit.

Lord have mercy, do you mean to suggest that the two are not one in the same?

Prison of circumstances is a pure invention.

No, it's called "hermeneutics". I'll ask again, Do you actually think a literal prison with chains can bind Satan and his demons? If not, then the phrase "loosed from his prison" doesn't mean loosed from a literal prison , but a symbolic prison: a "prison of circumstances".