When were the seals opened?

[Ronald Nolette]

I think the birth pangs have just started in the last few decades, I also believe those come before any seal is opened.

Well if my favorite teacher is correct, the birth pangs began with WW1 and WW2. But definitely with the rebirth of Israel and the restoration of Hebrew and the shekel and the push to rebuild the temple. With what we see in the world today, the birth pangs maybe quickening.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Lookup the black plague, and the great famine of 1315....

Yep they were horrendous But they were not the by products of the war the antichrist launches and causes famine and plagues. The horsemen ride one after the other- not in some 2,000 time span.

Teh biggest reason why the seals are not history is that Israel was not returned to her land to prepare her to receive Her Messiah until 1948.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I Agree with this, I do not know who the 24 elders are and scripture does not give these details. What it does say is that some were resurrected at the crucifixion and ascended to heaven when Christ did "presumably". All we know is they were saints. They were redeemed by the blood and are part of the firstfruits of the resurrection with Christ Jesus. I Suspect they make up the "Elders" of Revelation.

Please show where it says they ascended to heaven. Maybe I missed it

 

[Keraz]

The 24 Elders: Who They Are How They Got To Heaven – Escape All These Things (Luke 21:36)

If you believe Tim McHyde, you can believe anything.
He says the number of 24 Elders is not literal, despite that specific number plainly stated in the Bible. Tim's theory is that they are the Trib martyrs, as Revelation 20:4 prophesies, but they have the role of being Jesus priests and co-rulers.

We simply are not told who the 24 are. All will be revealed in due course of time.

As for the first five Seals, is is actually indisputable that Jesus did open them at His Ascension. Proved by all the terrible wars, famines and plagues we have had over this age. The Fifth Seal clinches it; ALL the martyrs since Stephen have their souls kept under the Altar in heaven.

 

[CharismaticLady]

The 24 Elders: Who They Are How They Got To Heaven – Escape All These Things (Luke 21:36)

I just counted up the prophets of the Old Testament and believe it is either 24 or 25 though I think I missed some, like Elijah and Elisha. I was just quickly going by the names of the books of the Old Testament. I'll recount sometime.

 

[kcnalp]

And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. (Revelation 5:2-5)

The Above explanation reads that the seals were opened when Christ ascended to heaven. Or at the least some of them....

Since Christ ascended, has there been Nicolaitans seeking to conquer, and rule over the laity? Yes. Have there been wars? Yes. Has there been famine? Yes. Has there been death and plagues? Yes. Has there been persecution and martyrdom? Yes.... So without a doubt it can be said that the first five seals were opened immediately after Christ ascended to heaven and Stephen was the first Martyr, But the sixth and seventh seal have yet to occur. Why?

The simple answer is because there is a number to be fulfilled in the fifth seal.
They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers[fn] should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been. (Revelation 6:10-11, ESV)

John himself fully understood that he was a partaker of these seals, saying: I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. (Revelation 1:9)

We as a church have been living in a time of the first five seals having been opened and they have been for 2000 years. We have been living in the birthpangs for this whole time, but now near the end they will begin to increase, and that number of the fifth seal will be completed by the ruling beast, who will think he is defeating the church by making war on the saints and overcoming them, but in the end he is hastening his demise at the coming of Christ! Hallelujah!

Preterist?

 

[David H.]

Preterist?

No, I am Premillennialist and futurist, But there is some truth in the preterist P.O.V.

 

[kcnalp]

No, I am Premillennialist and futurist, But there is some truth in the preterist P.O.V.

Preterists will soon have their worlds rocked.

 

[David H.]

Preterists will soon have their worlds rocked.

For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. (1 Corinthians 13:9-10)

I think a lot of premillennialists will also have their world rocked when the unfolding does not occur as they expected.

 

[Timtofly]

For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. (1 Corinthians 13:9-10)

I think a lot of premillennialists will also have their world rocked when the unfolding does not occur as they expected.

I think John who wrote Revelation is a Premillennial who will see it unfold again just as it did when he saw it the first time. As for a lot of Premillennial theory, you may be correct. Sin and a sin nature are gone. All humanity will die, no one will survive in a sin filled corruptible body. And the Second Coming is years before the battle of Armageddon. Premillennials will be shocked at some of their guesses.

 

[David H.]

I think John who wrote Revelation is a Premillennial who will see it unfold again just as it did when he saw it the first time. As for a lot of Premillennial theory, you may be correct. Sin and a sin nature are gone. All humanity will die, no one will survive in a sin filled corruptible body. And the Second Coming is years before the battle of Armageddon. Premillennials will be shocked at some of their guesses.

That is I believe correct, I see the Apostle John as one of the two future witnesses. (See Revelation 10:11)

 

[kcnalp]

For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. (1 Corinthians 13:9-10)

I think a lot of premillennialists will also have their world rocked when the unfolding does not occur as they expected.

You have to have a VIVID imagination to be a Preterist!

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

The Above explanation reads that the seals were opened when Christ ascended to heaven.

Glad you pointed that out. Up to verse 4, that was before the death, resurrection amd as entiom if Christ. Verse 5, is after.
The seals were opened, likely all of them. It is just a scroll, like a play with things that will take place at a later time. If they weren't open, how would we know what was in them
Notice with each opening of a seal, the angel says, "Come and see", bringing John to a different time and vision.

 

[Timtofly]

That is I believe correct, I see the Apostle John as one of the two future witnesses. (See Revelation 10:11)

If the witnesses are 4, two candlesticks and two olive trees, why only one candlestick in the OT?

Do you think the 4 beast are associated with the 4 witnesses?

I think the 4 beast are just descriptive terms for the 4 witnesses in their spiritual role. The candlesticks and olive trees are the earthly physical descriptions.

The first four seals are attributed to the four beast saying to John come and witness this event. Since John is a first century human, and a witness, then, for one Seal, he would be referring to himself telling himself what to witness. Also John never gives the account in his Gospel about the Mt. of Transfiguration. He mentions it briefly in the first chapter. The two olive trees and a candlestick would have been on the Mt. of Transfiguration. Peter and James may not have known at that time John was the candlestick.

 

[David H.]

If the witnesses are 4, two candlesticks and two olive trees, why only one candlestick in the OT?

Do you think the 4 beast are associated with the 4 witnesses?

I think the 4 beast are just descriptive terms for the 4 witnesses in their spiritual role. The candlesticks and olive trees are the earthly physical descriptions.

The first four seals are attributed to the four beast saying to John come and witness this event. Since John is a first century human, and a witness, then, for one Seal, he would be referring to himself telling himself what to witness. Also John never gives the account in his Gospel about the Mt. of Transfiguration. He mentions it briefly in the first chapter. The two olive trees and a candlestick would have been on the Mt. of Transfiguration. Peter and James may not have known at that time John was the candlestick.

Where do you get the four witnesses? @ the mount of transfiguration were two witnesses, Moses and Elijah representing the Law and the prophets, At the second coming I Believe it will be Elijah and John representing the prophets (Christ is the Spirit of prophecy) and new covenant by His Blood.

 

[Timtofly]

Where do you get the four witnesses? @ the mount of transfiguration were two witnesses, Moses and Elijah representing the Law and the prophets, At the second coming I Believe it will be Elijah and John representing the prophets (Christ is the Spirit of prophecy) and new covenant by His Blood.

Revelation 11:3-4

3 “Also I will give power to my two witnesses; and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, dressed in sackcloth.”
4 These are the two olive trees and the two menorahs standing before the Lord of the earth.