When were the seals opened?

[David H.]

And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. (Revelation 5:2-5)

The Above explanation reads that the seals were opened when Christ ascended to heaven. Or at the least some of them....

Since Christ ascended, has there been Nicolaitans seeking to conquer, and rule over the laity? Yes. Have there been wars? Yes. Has there been famine? Yes. Has there been death and plagues? Yes. Has there been persecution and martyrdom? Yes.... So without a doubt it can be said that the first five seals were opened immediately after Christ ascended to heaven and Stephen was the first Martyr, But the sixth and seventh seal have yet to occur. Why?

The simple answer is because there is a number to be fulfilled in the fifth seal.
They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers[fn] should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been. (Revelation 6:10-11, ESV)

John himself fully understood that he was a partaker of these seals, saying: I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. (Revelation 1:9)

We as a church have been living in a time of the first five seals having been opened and they have been for 2000 years. We have been living in the birthpangs for this whole time, but now near the end they will begin to increase, and that number of the fifth seal will be completed by the ruling beast, who will think he is defeating the church by making war on the saints and overcoming them, but in the end he is hastening his demise at the coming of Christ! Hallelujah!

 

[Nancy]

And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. (Revelation 5:2-5)

The Above explanation reads that the seals were opened when Christ ascended to heaven. Or at the least some of them....

Since Christ ascended, has there been Nicolaitans seeking to conquer, and rule over the laity? Yes. Have there been wars? Yes. Has there been famine? Yes. Has there been death and plagues? Yes. Has there been persecution and martyrdom? Yes.... So without a doubt it can be said that the first five seals were opened immediately after Christ ascended to heaven and Stephen was the first Martyr, But the sixth and seventh seal have yet to occur. Why?

The simple answer is because there is a number to be fulfilled in the fifth seal.
They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers[fn] should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been. (Revelation 6:10-11, ESV)

John himself fully understood that he was a partaker of these seals, saying: I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. (Revelation 1:9)

We as a church have been living in a time of the first five seals having been opened and they have been for 2000 years. We have been living in the birthpangs for this whole time, but now near the end they will begin to increase, and that number of the fifth seal will be completed by the ruling beast, who will think he is defeating the church by making war on the saints and overcoming them, but in the end he is hastening his demise at the coming of Christ! Hallelujah!

Pretty interesting post David,
Something to ponder. Whenever I think I have things figured out, somebody comes up with something else! It's like the cereal aisle in a grocery store, WAY too many choices but, we know there is only one truth here. Thanks for sharing, good stuff!

 

[Randy Kluth]

And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. (Revelation 5:2-5)

The Above explanation reads that the seals were opened when Christ ascended to heaven. Or at the least some of them....

Since Christ ascended, has there been Nicolaitans seeking to conquer, and rule over the laity? Yes. Have there been wars? Yes. Has there been famine? Yes. Has there been death and plagues? Yes. Has there been persecution and martyrdom? Yes.... So without a doubt it can be said that the first five seals were opened immediately after Christ ascended to heaven and Stephen was the first Martyr, But the sixth and seventh seal have yet to occur. Why?

The simple answer is because there is a number to be fulfilled in the fifth seal.
They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers[fn] should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been. (Revelation 6:10-11, ESV)

John himself fully understood that he was a partaker of these seals, saying: I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. (Revelation 1:9)

We as a church have been living in a time of the first five seals having been opened and they have been for 2000 years. We have been living in the birthpangs for this whole time, but now near the end they will begin to increase, and that number of the fifth seal will be completed by the ruling beast, who will think he is defeating the church by making war on the saints and overcoming them, but in the end he is hastening his demise at the coming of Christ! Hallelujah!

To some extent I agree, though perhaps with a slightly different take on it. I see the 6th and 7th seals as both indicative of the end, or the last day of the age. It is a dramatic representation of how men fail to prepare for that day, hiding themselves in the cliffs and caves. But I do think the 6th seal is depicting the same end as indicated by the 7th seal.

The 1st 5 seals are indeed the birth pangs of the coming Kingdom, taking place as a negative experience in the present age. The present age is characterized by pagan opposition to Christ's Kingdom, and Christians are persecuted even as they successfully witness to this Coming Kingdom.

The birth pains of Israel's Kingdom indicated Israel's hope of salvation, which failed in the time of Christ. They were signs of an aborted Kingdom, but one that will still come for Israel. The birth pains in the 5 seals are not just for Israel but for the whole world, because the whole world is now experiencing what Israel experienced, which is opposition to the Kingdom of Christ.

As such, God endures this opposition while he obtains salvation from those who accept His Son. It is certainly more than the 144,000 symbolic number of Jews who embrace Christ. More, it is the Great Multitude from all nations. Thanks for the post!

 

[Keraz]

We as a church have been living in a time of the first five seals having been opened and they have been for 2000 years. We have been living in the birthpangs for this whole time, but now near the end they will begin to increase, and that number of the fifth seal will be completed by the ruling beast, who will think he is defeating the church by making war on the saints and overcoming them, but in the end he is hastening his demise at the coming of Christ! Hallelujah!

I agree that the Fifth Seal will be completed by the Return Of Jesus.
But this does not mean the Sixth Seal can't happen before then. It is the next prophesied event; the world changer that will commence all the end times events.
Proved by the over 100 prophesies that describe this terrible worldwide disaster and how it will enable the establishment of a One World Govt.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I see the first seal is the revealing of the Antichrist. I don't know who he is, but I do believe he is living now.

 

[David H.]

I see the first seal is the revealing of the Antichrist. I don't know who he is, but I do believe he is living now.

I See the rider on the white horse as Nicolaitanism which began in the apostolic church with those who claimed to be apostles but were not. This has continued and gotten worse through the ages. It is directly related to the Mystery of iniquity which was already at work in Paul's time but was restrained. I Have a post here on Nicolaitanism if you have not read it yet, do so.

 

[dev553344]

I think the sixth seal has already been opened.

 

[David H.]

I think the sixth seal has already been opened.

Explain....

 

[Eternally Grateful]

May I ask why you think that says it had to be when he ascended? I do not see this in the passage you Gave.

 

[dev553344]

In 1780 there was an event, just after 1776:

What caused the mystery of the Dark Day?

From the article:

"With little scientific knowledge amongst the populace in 1780, people would have been afraid. Some lawmakers in Connecticut believed it was the day of judgement. The sense that a decisive moment was afoot would have been bolstered by the fact that during the preceding days, the sun and moon glowed red."

But there have been other events like this since Rev was written.

 

[David H.]

May I ask why you think that says it had to be when he ascended? I do not see this in the passage you Gave.

Sure can, I will repaste it here....

And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. (Revelation 5:2-5)

Notice, that at first there was NO MAN in heaven and earth or under the earth able to open the seals, then there was the Lion of the tribe of Judah, Jesus Christ, who had prevailed, pointing to his ascension to heaven. It is one of those passages that gives us a time clue which is often overlooked because from the time John received the vision this was a past event, which is what he was told to write about, not just prophecies, but past events as well, as described in Revelation 1:19.

Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter; (Revelation 1:19) In other words, past present and future.

These are hard concepts for the premillennialists to grasp fully, especially when eschatology has been taught in such a a way that the prophecy of revelation is all future events to be shoved into a final seven year time period. But when rightly understood, it makes the immanency of His coming something that could have happened 2000 years ago, or today as the Apostles often spoke of. We do not know the number that must be fulfilled of the saints to be martyred, before the long suffering of God runs out. But there is clearly in Revelation a point in time when repentance no longer occurs in mankind and then his wrath will come. (See Revelation 9:20-21, and Revelation 11:18) So What many see as God's wrath, the seven trumpets, I see them as God's last attempt at patience for mankind to reach repentance, thus acts of Mercy on His part, even the ministry of the two witnesses are such, plagues, meant to lead to repentance, not the wrath of God.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Sure can, I will repaste it here....



Notice, that at first there was NO MAN in heaven and earth or under the earth able to open the seals, then there was the Lion of the tribe of Judah, Jesus Christ, who had prevailed, pointing to his ascension to heaven. It is one of those passages that gives us a time clue which is often overlooked because from the time John received the vision this was a past event, which is what he was told to write about, not just prophecies, but past events as well, as described in Revelation 1:19.

Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter; (Revelation 1:19) In other words, past present and future.

there is only one problem with this thinking, if we read on we see this

Revelation 5:9–10 (AV): And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth

who are these redeemed people who are at the throne, who are witnessing these events if it was over 2000 years ago as you claim, then these people would Not be there. While. Can sort of see where you are coming from, when I read the passage in context. Your thinking in my view falls apart

These are hard concepts for the premillennialists to grasp fully, especially when eschatology has been taught in such a a way that the prophecy of revelation is all future events to be shoved into a final seven year time period. But when rightly understood, it makes the immanency of His coming something that could have happened 2000 years ago, or today as the Apostles often spoke of. We do not know the number that must be fulfilled of the saints to be martyred, before the long suffering of God runs out. But there is clearly in Revelation a point in time when repentance no longer occurs in mankind and then his wrath will come. (See Revelation 9:20-21, and Revelation 11:18) So What many see as God's wrath, the seven trumpets, I see them as God's last attempt at patience for mankind to reach repentance, thus acts of Mercy on His part, even the ministry of the two witnesses are such, plagues, meant to lead to repentance, not the wrath of God.

Aww, I see now, why did you not come right out and say this was an attack on people’s belief systems, not that you were here to actually discuss what the word said, you could have saved my time from trying to honestly see where you were comming from.

here is the way it is man, if we have not yet seen prophetic things fulfilled yet, it has not happened.
Before the virgin birth in Bethlehem occurred, I am sure people mocked those who said that this was going to be a literal event also.

the seals and all is part of Gods wrath on earth, we are told how long that will occur (it’s not 7 years by the way) it is called It is called in scripture the time of Jacobs trouble or the great tribulation.

if you do not want to believe it, that’s your right and I will not judge you for it, but do us all a favor, if you want to discuss it, let’s discuss, but keep your mocking tone down, because it will not get you anywhere, it just makes you look bad,

 

[Enoch111]

The Above explanation reads that the seals were opened when Christ ascended to heaven. Or at the least some of them....

The first five seals were opened in the first century, and their events have continued ever since. But the 6th and 7th seal events are definitely in the future (which may not be that far away).

 

[David H.]

In 1780 there was an event, just after 1776:

What caused the mystery of the Dark Day?

From the article:

"With little scientific knowledge amongst the populace in 1780, people would have been afraid. Some lawmakers in Connecticut believed it was the day of judgement. The sense that a decisive moment was afoot would have been bolstered by the fact that during the preceding days, the sun and moon glowed red."

But there have been other events like this since Rev was written.

What these events are not is world wide. We saw the events of wildfires causing the sky to turn orange in California and other parts of the country over the past couple of years, but they were largely localized events. I Know here where I am in Michigan the smoke from these fires caused the sun to darken especially at sunset, and the moon to not be as bright, But they did not affect the whole world in this respect. Large volcanic events can also cause this, but it is also localized.

I am one of those people that think this is a supernatural event, not a natural event. One that science will not be able to explain, Just like the sun going dark during a full moon Shortly before Passover which falls on a full moon when Christ was crucified, a scientific impossibility, and a supernatural event, which lasted for six hours, where as an eclipse lasts for 30 or so minutes.

That does not mean science will not try to explain away these supernatural events as having natural sources, I believe they already are doing this, for example the shows trying to explain the red sea crossing as caused by a tsunami caused by a volcano in Greece causing the water to recede. I also think the whole UFO thing is just a cover for fallen angels resurfacing, which curiously began in earnest the same year Israel was reborn as a nation.... coincidence? I Believe these beings are bringing in the technology of the beast as we speak and many of the leaders in the nations are in cahoots with them. Can I prove these things? No, call me a nut if you must, but that is what I see happening. It is all the mystery of iniquity at work. Have you read anything about CERN? What was Located there, and discovered? Fascinating stuff, when you take the time to read about it. It is other worldly, even supernatural what is occurring there, in a demonic sort of way.

Scientist and the Elite Try to Hide What Really Happened at CERN, Demonic Entities, Extra Dimensions - YouTube

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The first five seals were opened in the first century, and their events have continued ever since. But the 6th and 7th seal events are definitely in the future (which may not be that far away).

So,we have been under Gods wrath for that long? Just asking

 

[dev553344]

What these events are not is world wide. We saw the events of wildfires causing the sky to turn orange in California and other parts of the country over the past couple of years, but they were largely localized events. I Know here where I am in Michigan the smoke from these fires caused the sun to darken especially at sunset, and the moon to not be as bright, But they did not affect the whole world in this respect. Large volcanic events can also cause this, but it is also localized.

I am one of those people that think this is a supernatural event, not a natural event. One that science will not be able to explain, Just like the sun going dark during a full moon Shortly before Passover which falls on a full moon when Christ was crucified, a scientific impossibility, and a supernatural event, which lasted for six hours, where as an eclipse lasts for 30 or so minutes.

That does not mean science will not try to explain away these supernatural events as having natural sources, I believe they already are doing this, for example the shows trying to explain the red sea crossing as caused by a tsunami caused by a volcano in Greece causing the water to recede. I also think the whole UFO thing is just a cover for fallen angels resurfacing, which curiously began in earnest the same year Israel was reborn as a nation.... coincidence? I Believe these beings are bringing in the technology of the beast as we speak and many of the leaders in the nations are in cahoots with them. Can I prove these things? No, call me a nut if you must, but that is what I see happening. It is all the mystery of iniquity at work. Have you read anything about CERN? What was Located there, and discovered? Fascinating stuff, when you take the time to read about it. It is other worldly, even supernatural what is occurring there, in a demonic sort of way.

Scientist and the Elite Try to Hide What Really Happened at CERN, Demonic Entities, Extra Dimensions - YouTube

I understand. Personally I think the coming of Christ happened when he was resurrected and appeared to everyone back in the day. I also think that the prophecies of Revelation were for that time as well. Babylon could very well be Pompeii of the Roman empire in Ad 79. Anyways, it's perhaps fun to think about this stuff as long as people don't get too carried away by it I suppose.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. (Revelation 5:2-5)

The Above explanation reads that the seals were opened when Christ ascended to heaven. Or at the least some of them....

Since Christ ascended, has there been Nicolaitans seeking to conquer, and rule over the laity? Yes. Have there been wars? Yes. Has there been famine? Yes. Has there been death and plagues? Yes. Has there been persecution and martyrdom? Yes.... So without a doubt it can be said that the first five seals were opened immediately after Christ ascended to heaven and Stephen was the first Martyr, But the sixth and seventh seal have yet to occur. Why?

The simple answer is because there is a number to be fulfilled in the fifth seal.
They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers[fn] should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been. (Revelation 6:10-11, ESV)

John himself fully understood that he was a partaker of these seals, saying: I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. (Revelation 1:9)

We as a church have been living in a time of the first five seals having been opened and they have been for 2000 years. We have been living in the birthpangs for this whole time, but now near the end they will begin to increase, and that number of the fifth seal will be completed by the ruling beast, who will think he is defeating the church by making war on the saints and overcoming them, but in the end he is hastening his demise at the coming of Christ! Hallelujah!

Sorry David, but the seals have not been opened yet. The rider on the white horse is the antichrist going out conquering and to conquer.

2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

We have not had a war that has taken the whole earth

4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

Not even WW 2 was fought on all continents. the 2 Americas and Antarctica did not have war on them.

We have not had global famine or global hyper inflation yet:

5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.

6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

Nor have we seen war and encompassing famine kill 1/4th of the population:

8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Also since Pentecost, whenever a believer is martyred, they go straight o heaven and are like those who die fo natural causes. These are post rapture saints.

Sorry, but though we have seen all these phenomena happen on the earth in smaller measures, the seals are still future.

 

[David H.]

there is only one problem with this thinking, if we read on we see this

Revelation 5:9–10 (AV): And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth

who are these redeemed people who are at the throne, who are witnessing these events if it was over 2000 years ago as you claim, then these people would Not be there. While. Can sort of see where you are coming from, when I read the passage in context. Your thinking in my view falls apart

Conveniently, you left out verse 8 which shows who were singing..... And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. (Revelation 5:8)

Now there is some debate as to who the 24 elders are, which cannot be proven one way or the other, and there are many theories as to their identity.... so the theory still stands.

Aww, I see now, why did you not come right out and say this was an attack on people’s belief systems, not that you were here to actually discuss what the word said, you could have saved my time from trying to honestly see where you were comming from.

here is the way it is man, if we have not yet seen prophetic things fulfilled yet, it has not happened.
Before the virgin birth in Bethlehem occurred, I am sure people mocked those who said that this was going to be a literal event also.

the seals and all is part of Gods wrath on earth, we are told how long that will occur (it’s not 7 years by the way) it is called It is called in scripture the time of Jacobs trouble or the great tribulation.

if you do not want to believe it, that’s your right and I will not judge you for it, but do us all a favor, if you want to discuss it, let’s discuss, but keep your mocking tone down, because it will not get you anywhere, it just makes you look bad,

To Tell someone you disagree with them is not to mock them, it is to have a dialog and debate on the facts, and is known as a healthy dialog. No Mocking was intended in my comment, and the fact it offended you shows that you are incapable of having a dialog based on facts.

I Myself am a premillennialist, and a futurist, I just believe that every Christian since the church began has been partaking in the birth pangs since the church began, and they are not the wrath of God, Just as John said in Revelation 1:9.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Conveniently, you left out verse 8 which shows who were singing..... And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. (Revelation 5:8)

Now there is some debate as to who the 24 elders are, which cannot be proven one way or the other, and there are many theories as to their identity.... so the theory still stands.

No matter who we think they are, we know this

1. they were redeemed by Christ
2. They were sitting in heaven, meaning they had been resurrected.

thus your theory falls, because there has been no resurrection yet, Paul proved this in Thessalonians,

To Tell someone you disagree with them is not to mock them, it is to have a dialog and debate on the facts, and is known as a healthy dialog. No Mocking was intended in my comment, and the fact it offended you shows that you are incapable of having a dialog based on facts.

I Myself am a premillennialist, and a futurist, I just believe that every Christian since the church began has been partaking in the birth pangs since the church began, and they are not the wrath of God, Just as John said in Revelation 1:9.

Saying you disagree with someone and saying these people make the mistake when they do this are two different things. And I never said I was offended, you need to try to learn some discernment, I just get sick of people who start an argument by saying this group or that group have this issue, instead of just sitting down and discussing what you think the word said, I do not know why but tongues, catholicism and end times prophecy seem to be the most heated discussions we see, and it would be nice for once to have an honest conversation without each side attacking the other,

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Sorry David, but the seals have not been opened yet. The rider on the white horse is the antichrist going out conquering and to conquer.

2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

We have not had a war that has taken the whole earth

4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

Not even WW 2 was fought on all continents. the 2 Americas and Antarctica did not have war on them.

We have not had global famine or global hyper inflation yet:

5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.

6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

Nor have we seen war and encompassing famine kill 1/4th of the population:

8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Also since Pentecost, whenever a believer is martyred, they go straight o heaven and are like those who die fo natural causes. These are post rapture saints.

Sorry, but though we have seen all these phenomena happen on the earth in smaller measures, the seals are still future.

I think the birth pangs have just started in the last few decades, I also believe those come before any seal is opened.