1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured When were you created

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by n2thelight, Jan 7, 2020.

  1. before

    42.9%
  2. at conception

    57.1%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,160
    Likes Received:
    361
    Just two questions,do you think you were created at conception or before?

    For me scripture shows we were created (souls)before ,that's why Christ would say I would not have you do anything I didn't
     
  2. Jane_Doe22

    Jane_Doe22 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,629
    Likes Received:
    1,773
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    This is a point you'll find Christians all over the place, particularly with people quoting Jeremiah 1:5.

    Personally, I'm of the the belief that a newborn's spirit is indeed much older than 9 month, and existed before their mortal body was created in the womb.
     
    n2thelight and Helen like this.
  3. Naomi25

    Naomi25 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,201
    Likes Received:
    1,386
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Australia
    I'm sorry, but I cannot vote on this as this is not something I've ever heard commented on. Could you perhaps please refer me to some scriptures that speak of souls existing before birth? Jeremiah 1:5 is all well and good, but I hope it is not all that this idea is resting on. If God is outside of time, then he would know us at any 'time'. Therefore we should not, I think, use this to argue we existed before our conception; just that God knew of it, who we would be and do...because he already existed in that time and space.
     
    ReChoired, brakelite and amadeus like this.
  4. Windmillcharge

    Windmillcharge Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,579
    Likes Received:
    933
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    There are no references to a pre conception existence.
    All the fees talk about God knowing us while we are inthewomb etc.
     
  5. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,160
    Likes Received:
    361
    So you think God knows whom we will choose?I don't think He does,if so what's the purpose?Please don't think I'm limiting Him in any way what so ever,as I'm not.

    Why did He hate Easu before He was even born?

    To really understand the Word one must understand the three earth ages

    Here's how I see it

    The World That Was: The world age that was (the first world age) means in (the spiritual world we were with God). We have been given two facts concerning the world that was. In Ezekiel 28, Satan rebelled against God, drawing one third of God's children to follow him and they stood against God in a battle. Satan's pride was his down fall, he stopped loving God and he wanted to be God himself.

    Roman 11, In the first earth age, there was a remnant that stood with God against Satan in the first earth age. In the last days there will be 7,000 (from all races) out of that remnant that the Father chose as His very elect to stand against Satan again in the last days. Satan will be cast out of heaven and will deceive the whole world, if possible the very elect. Then, of course, the rest of God's children that remained, what of them? The elect stood loyally with God but some took the path of least resistance, doing nothing, not wanting to get involved in controversy.

    Satan shall not be forgiven, but his rebellion posed two choices that God might use for correction. God needs to know if they would love Him or Satan. God could of destroyed all those who stood with Satan or He could regain their love and forgive them and give His children free will, this is why we are in this earth age. God would not accept the first choice as He is a loving and merciful God, and these were His children, created by Him. Being an all powerful God, He could not forced their love, but He needs to know if you love Him. Love must come from the heart, given as a free will gift, to have value. Forced love is worthless.

    The world that is now, as we know it, is His plan for salvation. The father chose His very elect before the foundations of this world. It is our thought that the elect are those who took a firm stand against Satan in the world that was and perhaps even volunteered for services in this world. The elect are referred to as the first fruits. Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Notice a period follows this sentence, indicating a statement. This was an accomplished fact. God created the world. This is the world that was, in which the people or souls were in the spirit bodies as opposed to the flesh bodies. It was this world that Satan's rebellion took place.

    Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form and void: and darkness was upon the deep. The word "was" in the Hebrew is "tohu va bohu", which means and should have been so translated ''became". The only possible deduction from this is that God destroyed the world that was. The Three Earth Ages by Pastor Murray , The Shepherd's Chapel Booklet Yahveh's Scriptural Plan The World That Is Now: Second world age is now. Genesis 1:2 And the spirit of God moved upon the face of the water. This then concerns a new or renewed world. Refer to Genesis 1:26-28 These verses tell us God created man and woman, as we know them in the flesh body, whom He told to multiply and replenish the earth "a reference to the renewed world or this world that is now. Refer to 2 Peter 3:5-13 which speaks of the "world that perished".

    Therefore, God created this world that is now, placing all the souls into flesh bodies, with the exception of Satan. They were and are totally in ignorance of Satan's battle and their own loyalties at that time, so that they might have the opportunity to develop their loyalties anew; in other words, to exercise their free will. Without the hindrance of pre-knowledge, their choice to worship God or their choice to worship Satan would be completely unhampered, given in love and free will. Satan, the spendid, shining soul, remained in the spirit form with limited yet obvious supernatural powers and was allowed to roam the earth. The reason for this was that Satan was to be used as a tool of deception.

    Satan's main purpose in this world is to tempt us all away from God, our Living Father and Creator. The Father purposed this, as He wants us to love and worship Him of our own free will. Satan is the catalyst. It is our choice whether we follow God or follow Satan. And this is the reason for this world that is now, as we know it today.

    Revelation chapters 21 and 22, the third earth age to come. Let it suffice to say that the thousand year period of teaching, the millennium, will be established by Christ upon His return on that "great and dreadful day", which is last day of this age. This marks a new beginning toward spiritual perfection when all shall bow the knee to Christ, as all shall be taught the full truth, when Satan shall be bound in the pit and without influence until he is loosed for the final short season when each one, having been taught the full truth, chooses of his own free will.

    The third world age represent eternal life, or the world that is to come. The millennial age will be ended at this time. Revelation 20:13-15 for those who choose to worship Satan: Decisions will have been made that lead to total destruction in the lake of fire. Revelation 21:27 for those who choose to worship the Father, God, through His son, Christ. The millennial age has ended and Revelation 21:1 speaks of a new meaning renewed, refurbished, in other words, a cleansed and holy heaven and earth. This is the eternal Kingdom. Now, much shall happen in the last days of this age, as we approach the millennium, and these things are of supreme important to the very elect. If you would like to read more on the signs of the in end. Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21, will bring us to the Lord day which is the millennium.
     
  6. marksman

    marksman My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her

    Messages:
    2,092
    Likes Received:
    607
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Australia
    Depends on what you are talking about. If you mean created physically then at conception.

    In Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. The first man was a physical creation and became a living soul after God breathed into his nostrils. So it was physical and then spiritual.

    Genesis 27:4 And make me savoury meat, such as I love, and bring it to me, that I may eat; that my soul may bless thee before I die. There are several verses in Genesis that indicate the soul is the operative factor in a person's decision making. Not the mind, brain or physical body. This shows how essential the soul is to the person.

    Genesis 34:8 And Hamor communed with them, saying, The soul of my son Shechem longeth for your daughter: I pray you give her him to wife.

    Note that it is not the heart that longs for his daughter. it is the soul.

    Exodus 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

    How was one disowned? Their soul was cut off. Physically they may still be functioning but spiritually they were dead.

    Leviticus 5:17 And if a soul sin, and commit any of these things which are forbidden to be done by the commandments of the LORD; though he wist it not, yet is he guilty, and shall bear his iniquity.

    Note that it is the soul that sins. No the body or the mind.

    From these verses and there are many others the Old Testament puts the soul at the heart of the matter and give it precedence over the heart and the body.

    May I suggest that the body cannot operate without a soul so when we are created physically in the womb, we are then given a soul by God as God cannot give a soul to something or someone that does not exist.
     
  7. Naomi25

    Naomi25 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,201
    Likes Received:
    1,386
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Australia
    I'm sorry, but...how are you NOT limiting him if you place bounds on his characteristics? If we say that God is all-knowing, all-powerful and omnipresent...and we also acknowledge that he exists outside of time, that time cannot bind him, then that expands the possibilities of what we're talking about beyond what we're possible of even probably capable of grasping.

    If we look at Ephesians 1:4, where it says that he "chose us before the foundation of the world", then we must conclude that before we were born he knew us, 'chose' us. That, depending on your view of creation, puts a time frame of thousands and thousands of years between the forming of the earth and your birth. How can he have 'known' (Jer 1:5) and 'chosen' us from that time? You propose that it is because we existed back then as well.
    However, I see zero biblical evidence for that idea. We know that God exists outside of time and is all-knowing. Knowing us now, even when he created the world, is not beyond him.
    I will continue to read your post, but, like I said, unless some startling biblical evidence is presented to point in the direction your going, I'm going to stick with the orthodox view.

    I hope you follow up on the "the spiritual age we were with God", because at present that seems to be a huge assumption.
    Also, while Ezekiel 28 is often recognized to be speaking of Satan's downfall, it does not mention other angelic being rebelling also. Not a single reference to them or how many of them.


    Wait, what? Slow down. Where on earth in Romans 11 does it say anything about a 'first age' or there being a remnant 'standing with God against Satan'?
    Where do you get 7000 from all the races? Where do you get ANY of this?
    Chapter and verse, please. Else it sounds like a very nice sort of fiction. Sorry.


    Wait. So...your entire argument fits within the empty space of a 'period' and the beginning of the next sentence? That is not only terrible exegesis, but also nonsensical as well, unless you can find and provide a good number of other verses that seem to suggest that something MUST be inserted there. Thus far I haven't seen anything of the sort provided.

    So...let me get this straight. The "only possible deduction" that can be pulled from the word "was" actually being "became" is that the world was actually fully and perfectly formed initially, and that there occurred a great rebellion and war that was so terrible that the world became 'formless and void'....which then leads to the bible telling us how God 'made it' the second time.
    That's the "ONLY" possible deduction, huh? It's not at all possible that as God was forming the planet it 'became' void. As in, when a potter takes a great big lump of square clay and starts first working it, it must first pass through the process where it is only a round lump of nothing, just being softened and readied to be molded into something beautiful.
    I mean, sure, God could snap his fingers and boom, the world could have been here, all ready for life. But that's not what scripture says. And sure, there could have been another world where Satan rebelled and destroyed it so that it had to be remade...but that's not what scripture says.
    You are relying totally on an argument of silence, hanging everything on a single tiny word. A word that can, as I've just shown in a very un-scholarly way, be explained quite easily.

    Again, total conjecture.
     
    Mike Waters likes this.
  8. Jane_Doe22

    Jane_Doe22 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,629
    Likes Received:
    1,773
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Ultimately, the age of a person's spirit is not something that is point-blank explained in the Bible. We can look at a handful of verses, have different interpretations of them, etc.
     
    amadeus likes this.
  9. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,881
    Likes Received:
    1,925
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    this is a good topic, may as well put my two cent worth in it also. not saying that anyone is right or wrong, but something to consider.

    we all was created at the beginning, (yes, maybe to some dismay, 101G was there also... :D ), but was brought forth in his (God), appointed time or order. as the woman was in the man and later brought forth.

    and in this order, Time and what we do in this time is controlled by God, but he allow us limited will of control. meaning in an example, look at time as a river. yes, a river, has many branches or streams running off of it, but those ways that seem right to a man is not God's way and those way lead to DEATH, Proverbs 14:12. understand, man has a will to chose, but also God has a will, God's Perfect Will and His Permissive Will. so God's perfect will is for us to stay in the river per say. now if you chose to go up the creek ...... without a paddle........ that's on you. but I want to get to the Permissive Will of God.
    his Perfect will is that all men, (male, and females) be saved, see 1 Timothy 2:4.

    the term Permissive: means, allowing or characterized by great or excessive freedom of behavior.

    scripture, Jeremiah 14:11 "Then said the LORD unto me, Pray not for this people for their good.
    (this shock me to my core, because God orderd the prophet not to "PRAY"... for their good, so no one prays for another’s bad? do they. so by telling the prophet not to pray for the people good, that open my eyes to the fact that events and time can be change and are not fixed. for we know that "Prayer" changes thing. and if Jeremiah would have prayed for the good of the people, God would have heard Jeremiah prayer and would have relented. so knowing that prayer changes things, as well as time, things, (time and events), can be altered, but on a limited bases. for if Jeremiah would have prayed, then God would have waited us out. He can do that, because he has all the time in the world. (smile).

    Now God’s Permissive will in our freedom to act. let me explain. what alerted me to this fact was, Scripture,

    1 Kings 3:5 "In Gibeon the LORD appeared to Solomon in a dream by night: and God said, Ask what I shall give thee. (STOP, notice what is happening).

    1 Kings 3:6 "And Solomon said, Thou hast shewed unto thy servant David my father great mercy, according as he walked before thee in truth, and in righteousness, and in uprightness of heart with thee; and thou hast kept for him this great kindness, that thou hast given him a son to sit on his throne, as it is this day.

    1 Kings 3:7 "And now, O LORD my God, thou hast made thy servant king instead of David my father: and I am but a little child: I know not how to go out or come in.

    1 Kings 3:8 "And thy servant is in the midst of thy people which thou hast chosen, a great people, that cannot be numbered nor counted for multitude.

    1 Kings 3:9 "Give therefore thy servant an understanding heart to judge thy people, that I may discern between good and bad: for who is able to judge this thy so great a people?

    1 Kings 3:10 "And the speech pleased the Lord, that Solomon had asked this thing. (OK, STOP, Hold the press. Did God know what was on Solomon heart? ...... By asking, God’s Permissive will, allowed Solomon to change events, or times. For God asked him and not the other way around. The next verses explain this.

    1 Kings 3:11 "And God said unto him, Because thou hast asked this thing, and hast not asked for thyself long life; neither hast asked riches for thyself, nor hast asked the life of thine enemies; but hast asked for thyself understanding to discern judgment;

    1 Kings 3:12 "Behold, I have done according to thy words (ONE NEED TO READ THAT AGAIN), lo, I have given thee a wise and an understanding heart; so that there was none like thee before thee, neither after thee shall any arise like unto thee.

    1 Kings 3:13 "And I have also given thee that which thou hast not asked, both riches, and honour: so that there shall not be any among the kings like unto thee all thy days.


    I’m reminded of this event, here, when my Parents asked me something, and the answer I gave them pleased them, for they admitted that they was not looking for that answer, and gave me more than I asked for.

    Let me tell you, children, and grandchildren will say things that you was not expecting and was pleasantly surprise at what they said. For you was not expecting it that way.

    So, we’re in the middle of the river, God’s “perfect” will, and he allows us to change, (that’s what pray is for, to change things), his will allow us to change some things. For the biggest word in the bible to support this is the word “if” which is a conditional word. If you will hear my voice….. “if” let me know things can be change, unless as with Jeremiah in 14:11.

    Not saying that anyone is right or wrong, but here’s something to consider. As any well laid plans of any parent, sometime it just don’t happen as plan (the perfect will). as said, “if”..... we change anything God can always wait us out, just ask the rebellious one who dropped in the wilderness for 40 years. As with us today, every parent wants the best for their child.

    So overall God is in total control, (stay in the river), but he has the right and the power over his clay. for God's "PERFECT" will is for all to be saved, 1 Timothy 2:4 "Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth". there's that "PERFECT" will.


    These are just a few example, something to think about. again, not saying any is right or wrong, for God can do anything he wants.

    PICJAG
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2020
    Heart2Soul likes this.
  10. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,160
    Likes Received:
    361
    Can we agree that satan was not always evil?Can we also agree that we don't no when he turned?My point is what was going on before he turned?
     
    Jane_Doe22 likes this.
  11. Jane_Doe22

    Jane_Doe22 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,629
    Likes Received:
    1,773
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    What are you beliefs about the bolded question n2thelight?
     
  12. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,160
    Likes Received:
    361
    Where was Christ before He was born of woman?My point to that is ,Christ didn't ask us to do anything that He would not,being born of woman is one of them.

    Let's look at the question God asked Job

    Job 38:4 "Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding."

    Job 38:7 "When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for Joy?"

    Who were these "sons of God" [the stars that sang], and when did these sons of God sing for Joy? We are talking about the angels here, that sang before the establishment of this earth age of the flesh. All souls were there and Satan also was there with all of them. Some how the people of this earth age are trying to forget Satan and the role that he played at the rebellion in that first earth age. We see that Satan was not in the conversation with Job and his friends at this time. They all have overlooked the overall plan of God. However had Job known the plan of God, where would he have been then, when the foundations of this earth were laid and the angels were rejoicing? Of course He would have been there with the rest of them, where we all were. You see, we the elect of God were chosen before the foundations of this earth were laid, and so was Job.


    Ephesians 1:4 "According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world [age], that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love:"


    Ephesians 1:5 "Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children of Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,"




     
  13. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,160
    Likes Received:
    361
    So God knew satan would turn against Him as well?I don't think ....

    Why did God interfere in Pauls life?
     
  14. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,160
    Likes Received:
    361
    Oh but the Word does show this

    Isaiah 45:18 "for thus saith the Lord That created the heavens; God Himself That formed the earth and made it; He hath established it, He created it not in vain, He formed it to be inhabited: "I am the Lord; and there is none else."

    Before we get into this verse, let's understand the Hebrew word used for "vain". In the Hebrew text the word is "tohu", and this is the same word as God gave in Genesis 1:2.

    Genesis 1:2 "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."

    The word "tohu" means void and without form. God is saying that He did not create the earth void and without form, but it became that way. "And the earth was" is also a phrase that we must take back to the Hebrew text, for the word "was" in the Hebrew text should read "became". In the Strong's Hebrew Dictionary, the number is 1961. "Hayah, haw-yaw', a prime root, to become, or come to pass, to cause to happen." The earth was not created "tohu" or without form and void, but became that way.

    In Genesis 1:1; "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." This is a flat statement, and the purpose of His creation is given to us here in Isaiah 45:18; "He hath established it, He created it not in vain, He fored it to be inhabited:" He "established" it to give it order, and the purpose for establishing it was that it would be "inhabited." It was in that established place that the dinosaurs, and all the other creatures that are extinct today, roamed.

    We can go to the poles of this earth and find tropical plants, and sharp frozen animals with butter-cups still in their mouths. The dogs that pulled the sleds can still eat the meat from those thousands of years old creatures. The earth was created from pole to pole with no ice and no desolation, but an event happened to cause the earth to become that way. God is telling you here that He is the Lord, and He created the earth perfect. So we see from this verse that something happened between Genesis 1:1, and Genesis 1:2, that the earth that was created perfect and with habitation, became a complete waste and empty of life. Even to the point of the stars and sun not existing for a certain period of time.
     
  15. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,160
    Likes Received:
    361
    It's written,also note that we were not in flesh bodies at this time.

    Ezekiel 28:11 "Moreover the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,"

    Ezekiel 28:12 "Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the King of Tyrus, and say unto him, 'Thus saith the Lord God; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty."

    We have now changed Satan's position from the "prince of Tyre", to "king of Tyrus". The "king of Tyrus" was his position before his fall, in the first earth age. God is telling Satan, "I made you this way", God must have loved Satan at the time of Satan's creation, to give him such perfect beauty, and full of wisdom. Prior to the fall, Satan was in good standing with our heavenly Father.

    God gave Satan the highest position of any creative being; that of protection the mercy seat himself. Once Satan's pride and vanity took control of him, he departed from God's plan for him, he set his mind on being the "King of Kings" and assuming the role of Jesus Christ, the only begotten on the Father.

    Ezekiel 28:13 "Thou hast been in Eden the Garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the Sardis, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created."

    Do you remember the serpent in the Garden of Eden; and the "tree of good and evil"? Those were two of the names given to Satan, and they are also recorded in Revelation 12:9. Also don't overlook the term, "in the day that thou wast created." This points to the fact that Satan is not an eternal being, with infinite powers; thus there is no possibility of this creature ever becoming God, or having been one. However he is "full of wisdom, of a man."

    Ezekiel 28:14 "Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire."

    Now we know this one in Eden has to be Satan, and not Adam, for a cherub has never lived in the body of a man. Back in the thirteenth verse there are ten precious stones mentioned , and each of these stones are on the breastplate of the of the high priest. Before Satan's fall, he sat in an extremely high position, of responsibility.

    Satan was anointed by God to fill that high position. It was not an accident of God that Satan sat in that position, for Satan was created and anointed for that position; and he failed.

    The position of the "cherub" is to protect the mercy seat of God. "Coverth" means to guard, in the Hebrew text. God is saying that "I set you there on mine own altar, and you walked before me." It is because of Satan's vanity that he turned against God, and this caused Satan's sentence of death. It was because of this sentence that God also allowed for His own Son to die, to pay the price of all sin, so those who fall from God's grace, can return to His.

    Ezekiel 28:15 "Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee."

    Satan was perfect in every way, until he stopped loving God. Satan's focus then turned from serving God, to serving himself. Doing things his way. God created all souls, and gave them the right to choose. He has the right also to receive our love and respect, so we should take the time to tell him we love Him.

    Ezekiel 28:16 "By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire."

    This is the over-throw from the world that was, the first earth age. God told Satan that he was to be removed from the altar of God.

    Ezekiel 28:17 "Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of the brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee."

    Satan's heart and was lifted up in self pride. Satan must have received much praise, like we see those pompous, self righteous fools on TV. talk shows. Satan believed his own lies, and self righteousness took control of him. Brightness, wisdom, and beauty can be the downfall of any person, if they don't realize that everything they have, is from God. God should get all the glory in all that we do, and have.

    Jesus Christ is coming back to earth very shortly to carry out this judgment that God put on Satan. Then the whole world will see him for what he is.

    ezekiel28
     
  16. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,160
    Likes Received:
    361
    Not right,as from the below

    Jeremiah 1:4 "Then the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,"

    God Himself is speaking to this young fellow Jeremiah.

    Jeremiah 1:5 "Before I formed thee in the belly I know thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations."

    Before Jeremiah was even concieved within his mothers womb, God is telling Jeremiah that He knew him, and before Jeremiah was born, God sanctified him, which is to set Jeremiah apart for God's mission. God ordained Jeremiah as a prophet, not only to Judah, by to the nations also. When we see the word "Nations" it is directed to the Gentile nations also. Jeremiah was a prophet to all nations.

    In this final generation, this is amplified into the fact of the kings and queens that serve their people in the service of the living God. Think on that phrase, "Before I formed thee in the belly I know thee." To understand this phrase, you have to understand the three earth ages, as it is taught in II Peter 3, that there was an earth age before this present one, that this earth is millions of years old. The manuscripts, even from this King James declare it, and Jeremiah will take us to that first earth age in the fourth chapter.

    God foreknew Jeremiah, and knew that he was qualified to do the task that Jeremiah is about to be commissioned to do. Jeremiah had earned the right to fulfill that position, even in the first earth age.

    It is to bad that Christianity has so few scholars that their followers can be taken into a clear understand of God's Word. Most Christians today are on about a fourth grade level, as far as the Scriptures are concerned. The understanding of the first earth age requires that you dig into the languages of the Scripture. The Christians of today are limited to the short span of six thousand years, from Adam's time, and in their thinking they are completely ignorant of all time prior to then.

    We can go out in the country side and witness the eons of years of time prior to then. The Scriptures tell us of that time. In Job 40:15-19 God told us of the behemoth, or as we call it, the dinosaur, [which comes from the Greek meaning "deinos" terrible "sauros" lizard].

    Job 40:15-19 "Behold the behemoth, which I made with thee; and eateth grass as an ox.." [15] "Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly." [16] "He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together." [17] "His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron." [18] "He is the chief of the ways of God: He That made him can make His sword to approach unto him." [19]

    The dinosaurs are common today even to preschool children, and their bones are scattered all over the world, even though they did not live in the age that we now live in, this current flesh age of man. We know that there were many types of these dinosaurs that walked the earth eons of years ago. You just can't hide the evidence of all the bone that are collected on all the land masses of the earth.

    From this we can see how foolish these Christian teachers and pastors look to the rest of the world, when they try to tell them that this old world is only six thousand years old. They call the behemoth a hippopotamus, and hope that others will believe their assessment of this word relating to the hippopotamus, even though the tail of the hippo has no strength in it at all, and it is like a little twig. But as we read in Job 40:19; it states the behemoth "moveth his tail like a cedar;" This type of strength could only come from the dinosaur.

    We did have that first earth age, as recorded in Genesis 1:1, 2; where the earth became void, and without form at Satan's rebellion. Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." Genesis 1:2 "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep." This word "was" in the Hebrew text should read "became", as is shown in Strong's Hebrew dictionary, "Without form" in the Hebrew text reads; "tohu va bohu", which means a complete waste. God created the earth perfect, as we read in Genesis 1:1, and then it became a complete waste.

    In Isaiah 45:18; "For thus saith the Lord That created the heavens; God Himself That formed the earth and made it; He hath established it, He created it not in vain, He formed it to be inhabited: "I am the Lord; and there is none else." God did not create the earth void, but He created it to be inhabited. He did not create it "tohu va bohu"

    Satan rebelled, and one third of the souls followed him in that rebellion, and God brought a close to that first earth age, and brought about man himself in this earth age of the flesh. Each soul now comes from God, and enters the embryo in the womb, and is born innocent of that first earth age. This flesh body is formed in the womb from the elements of the earth that the mother consumes from food she eats and it is developed into its final form at birth. In the flesh body, man (woman) then has the free will to descide for itself whether it would love God or Satan.

    Man's body is made up from the clay of the earth, and upon death that physical body will decay right back into those elements that it came from. In the mother's womb, there is a clay vessel, that is made from the elements that came from the clay of the soul. Even in the meat we eat, comes from the greens that the animal ate that formed it's body. The body is an earthen vessel, but it is God that places the soul, the inner being into the child, and that is how God knew Jeremiah before Jeremiah was even placed in the womb of his mother.

    God said that he could trust Jeremiah, and I know that Jeremiah will follow me even in the flesh, and because of this Jeremiah is the one that I will place in the flesh in the embryo of the wife of Hilkiah.

    In Ephesians 1:4 God states that He has chosen us, His elect, before the foundations of this earth age. "According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love:" Don't let this throw you, that is what the Word of God says. That is why we should learn to check out all teaching in the Word of God.
     
  17. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,160
    Likes Received:
    361
    Romans 9:11
    "(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of Him That calleth;"

    Then when the twins, Jacob and Esau were still in their mother's womb, neither having had the chance of doing either good or evil, God called one of those unborn babies to service. This deals with the election according to the purpose of God in His Will. The reason was to accomplish the writings of these Scriptures. It wasn't an accident that Jacob was loved and Esau was hated, nor was it an accident that you saw the light and repented. God has His hand on all creation and all of His children. God intercedes in the lives of His children, and there are no accidents when it comes to the actions of God.

    Romans 9:12 "It was said unto her, "The elder shall serve the younger."

    This statement is not according to custom. In Genesis 25:23; "And the Lord said unto her, "Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other; and the elder shall serve the younger."

    The younger was to serve the older, and many so called teachers tell how Jacob plotted to get the blessing, they just don't understand that it was God's order from before they were ever born that Jacob would be the superior.


    Romans 9:13 "As it is written "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."

    It was written by the Prophet Malachi in Malachi 1:2, 3; "I have loved you, saith the Lord Yet ye say, `Wherein hast Thou loved us?' Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the Lord: yet I loved Jacob," "And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains [nations] and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness."

    While Esau was a small embryo in his mother Rebecca's womb, God hated Esau. If it sounds a little bit unfair, then you missed the point of the entire eighth chapter where God stipulated where He foreknew those that overcame at Satan's rebellion in the first earth age. Don't you think that God is judge enough to know who to hate and who to love.

    Esau had some very bad habits and one of those actions was to show disrespect for the heritage that God had given him. First of all Esau married out of His race of people, which God forbid. This made it impossible for Christ to be born through Esau because of the mixture and corruption of Esau's bloodline. Secondly Esau placed the value of the Abrahamic covenant at one bowl of red mush, what an insult. Esau put no value on the heritage of God, or any part of God's Word and promises. Esau did not wish to be an heir of our Heavenly Father.

    If Esau was that way in this earth age, he was probably far worse in the age that was. God doesn't hate someone without a cause.

    Romans 9:14 "What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid."

    Does this mean that God is unfair because he picked Jacob over Esau, or even because He hated Esau before he even came from the womb? God forbid, which means "No way."

    Lets go back to Malachi 1:4 and see what God had in store for Esau, which is the nation of Russia of today. "Whereas Edom [Esau, or Russia] saith, `We are impoverished, but we will build the desolate places:' Thus saith the Lord of host, They shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall call them the border of wickedness, and, The people against whom the Lord hath indignation for ever."

    Friend do you recognize communism when you see it, and the harshness that it brings upon it's people? It is a Godless form of government and it impoverishes the people and makes desolate spiritually all places where it reaches. This is the same type of government that is creeping into our nation today; it takes from the poor and gives it to the lazy people, while the rich go about their business. God thinks the same towards the lazy as He does Esau for they are from the same mind set. This has nothing to do with the handicapped.

    Russia is not going to change, even though she has that opportunity now, with the so-called democracy that exists there today. The nature and character of the Russian government will go right back to what she was, when she finishes with her bowl of red mush, which is the billions of dollars she got from other nations with her beggars bag.

    My Friend, God is always fair, and what happened to Esau, and her offspring of today is fair, and always has been. In the age that was, Esau was probably one of the chief leaders in Satan's rebellion. Then in 1917 the Russian people destroyed the churches of God, and killed of the people that wanted to worship there. That is the mind of Esau.

    God hated Esau because of the soul of Esau that was in Rebecca's womb and the hatred was for what happened in that first earth age.
     
  18. marksman

    marksman My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her

    Messages:
    2,092
    Likes Received:
    607
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Australia
    A very good question and one that gives us insight to reality. A lot depends on your version of creation. Mine is that mankind was created approx 6,000 years ago. We know that Satan was around at that time as he tempted Eve so that means he was there before they were.

    Having said that I am not saying that the earth was created 6,000 years ago because the scriptures said that originally the earth was without form and void. It does not tell how long that was for, so the earth could have been created without form and void a million years ago; 10 million years; a hundred million years etc. etc. Any data in this respect is only conjecture, not facts.

    Therefore we can only assume that Satan turned after the earth was created and before Adam was born and prior to that he was one of God's top three angels.
     
  19. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,160
    Likes Received:
    361
    Mankind in the (FLESH)was created around that time,however before God destroyed the earth we were in our spiritual bodies for like millions of years,conjecture of the time as you stated.The reason we were made flesh is because of the fact that satan rebelled.In other words had satan not rebelled we never would had been made flesh.

    satan led a coup and 1/3 of us followed him,God at that time could have killed him and all that followed,instead He destroyed the age,and His plan was for us to be born of woman,with no remembrance of that time.Not to say that all who are born of flesh followed him(satan)but He still had to have some to carry out His plan,to get those who did back to Him.

    Here's a link with a footprint that's millions of years old

    Footprint in Stone 50 Million Years Old.

    That's also why some were ordained before this earth age as they were already judged ,example the below

    Jeremiah 1:5 "Before I formed thee in the belly I know thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations."

    Also below

    Ephesians 1:4 "According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love:"

    What does it mean to be "chosen"?

    It means that there are certain people that God chosen in the first earth age, to do a task for Him in this flesh earth age. This is not reincarnation, for it is appointed for each of us to go through this earth age, the flesh earth age, once and only once. We read; "...It is appointed unto men once to die [in the flesh], but after this the judgment." Hebrews 9:27 This appointing and choosing took place before the foundation of this earth age; the second earth age [cosmos] that we now live in.

    "Without blame" refers to the fact that God intercedes in certain peoples lives. Certain people have free will, while certain others are of God's election, however, God doesn't play favorites. Christ died for the sins of all who will repent; the chosen, and the free-will. All must repent for sins they commit, and love the Lord Jesus Christ, to have the hope of His glory.

    "Before the foundation of the world", [cosmos in the Greek, meaning world or earth age.] The "foundation" in the Greek text, is the verb for, "the overthrow". This refers to something that happened in that first earth age, before the overthrow of Satan and his angels that followed him. When Satan fell [war against God], one third of all angelic beings [God's children] followed Satan. Then during that war, there were some who fought against Satan, and those who did, God calls "His Chosen". They took a stand, and were overcomers in that first earth age.

    Have you ever wondered why you do the things that you do, at times. It's just like you have a destiny. You have always felt their is more to life, and this world, then what you have been taught. Paul addresses this in Romans 8:27. In verse twenty six it says that there are times in your life when the Holy Spirit makes intercession for you because you don't even know what to pray for.

    "And he that searcheth the heart knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God." Romans 8:27 These saints are "the set-aside ones", or "the chosen". God has a overall plan, and a purpose in that plan just for you. That purpose is to bring back His children to Him; after that overthrow, and in this earth age.

    Why would God intercede in a person's life, without them even asking? When your free-will goes against God's purpose for your life, God will intercede. When Paul's "free will" was to destroy all Christians, God's will was to take this highly educated man, and use Paul as the instrument for Him. Paul used to same drive to destroy Christians, that he used later to convert people, after his conversion.

    We read that the Lord said; "...For He is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and Kings, and children of Israel:" Acts 9:15

    Ephesians 1:5 "Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,"

    "Predestined" means "from a prior time", or "required to do a certain thing" in the Greek text. You have a choice of loving God, or loving Satan. God will not interfere with your free will choice to chose Him or Satan. However, that person that proved himself during the overthrow of Satan, were "justified", or earned the right to be called "saints", from that first earth age.

    Each soul comes from God, and enters an embryo at conception. This is why Jeremiah was a chosen one. "Before I formed thee in the belly I know thee; and before thou comest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet of nations." Jeremiah 1:5

    "Sanctified" thee, is to "set aside, or apart for a purpose". Sins still have to be repented, and the price to pay for them still had to be made. To the predestined, and fore chosen, God can make life so miserable to those out of His will that they will repent. God has a perfect will, and God is always fair.

    "And we know that all things work together for good, to them that love God, to them who are the called according to His purpose." Romans 8:28 This verse is directed to a certain people, with a condition attached. This applies to "them who are called according to His purpose." "His purpose" is called God's plan, and God's overall plan is the offering of Salvation to all. That plan includes the teaching of God's Word; to plant seeds to convict; to live our life for Him; and to go and speak where God leads you. God will use you as it pleases Him.

    "For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren." Romans 8:29 God knew you, and what you were in that first earth age; and then [in that first earth age] God prearranged our destiny for this age. That destiny is to make us conform, or be like His Son, Jesus Christ. Though Jesus is the first fruits to overcome death, there are many that have that victory over death, through Christ's death and resurrection.

    "Moreover whom He did predestinate, them He also called: and whom He called: He also justified: and whom He justified, them He also glorified." Romans 8:30 "Justified" means "judged" in the Greek text; God judged them there in that first earth age, and that is why God can and does intercede in the chosen's ones lives. The justified are the priests of the Zadok in the millennium age of Ezekiel 40, for the word Zadok comes from the Hebrew word meaning "the just".

    Certain of God's children stood against Satan in the first earth age, and those that did stand, and did not follow Satan; God judged [justified], and He "chose" them then to be used in His eternal plan. Through God's perfect plan, God "predestined", and "ordained" each of them to His purpose to be used in this flesh age. Each of these will also be used in the Millennium age as priests, or called the "Zadok".

    When you become a Christian, and God has given you a working over, He is trying to wake you up. God is calling out a people, His people, the "Elect-chosen, and predestined" to stand against the Antichrist [Satan] in this final generation.


    NEW TESTAMENT, theseason.org
     
  20. Naomi25

    Naomi25 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,201
    Likes Received:
    1,386
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Australia
    Well, I'm not opposed to you showing me if it does. I just like to have my somewhat wild sounding theories presented with scripture in the beginning!

    Okay. I see where you're going with all this. I see that yes, you have some...few...biblical verses you are basing your ideas on.
    However. I have to disagree completely in how you are reading these verses. I think to read them as you do, you need to have some fairly fixed assumptions already in your mind, and ignore some fairly obvious and natural readings of the text. Let me explain:
    What you seem to be proposing, to my mind, is that "in the beginning" God snapped his fingers, a little like Thanos, and the world appeared fully furnished in an instant. Which is cool, and totally within God's capabilities, but a little bit of an assumption.
    The problem with that is that you clearly look on the Genesis narrative as something that lacks the purpose of life. You see the fact that just because God took 6 days to complete the earth, that you can then say that he made the earth 'formless and void' without an intent for it to live.
    Except, the part of Genesis where it takes up past 'formless and void' is just narrative to tell us how God created LIFE. Where there was NOT, God created life, created being, created light and air and water and teeming living things.
    The Genesis account in now way tells us that God's "first creation" failed and 'became' void against his original plan. Again, that is reading into a silent gap in the sentence.
    Isaiah 45:18 says that God formed the world and did not create it to be empty. I would say not! He progressively puts that to bed! But the Genesis account does so with a purpose that speaks more than just God's "snap my fingers" power. It speaks of his intentionality in every part of creation. Every part of it was declared "good".

    So, yes, I think you are mistaken, but, I recognize your freedom to believe as you do.
     
Loading...