Where Did 'Eternal Damnationism' Begin?

[High Premise]

The Early Church Fathers On Universal Restoration - Berean Patriot

“In the first five or six centuries of Christianity there were six theological schools, of which four (Alexandria, Antioch, Caesarea, and Edessa, or Nisibis) were Universalist, one (Ephesus) accepted conditional immortality; one (Carthage or Rome) taught endless punishment of the wicked. Other theological schools are mentioned as founded by Universalists, but their actual doctrine on this subject is not known.”

~ “The Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge” by Schaff-Herzog, 1908, volume 12, page 96

 

[justbyfaith]

Jesus said that there is eternal conscious torment for the unredeemed wicked (Mathew 13:41-42, Matthew 13:49-50, Matthew 25:46; Matthew 7:23, Matthew 25:41).

 

[High Premise]

Jesus said that there is eternal conscious torment for the unredeemed wicked (Mathew 13:41-42, Matthew 13:49-50, Matthew 25:46; Matthew 7:23, Matthew 25:41).

Before you jump the gun, you should "study to show yourself approved" -
An Analytical Study of Words

 

[Enoch111]

Where Did 'Eternal Damnationism' Begin?

It began at the very beginning with Cain who murdered Abel. And it was present at the Flood.

And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. (Jude 1:6,7)

While this sounds like it is in the present tense -- "suffering the vengeance of eternal fire" -- the rest of Scripture tells us that it will be in the future.

 

[Enoch111]

Before you jump the gun, you should "study to show yourself approved"

It is interesting how newbies introduce themselves with false doctrine. And the ECF are not always sound in their doctrines.

 

[quietthinker]

The Early Church Fathers On Universal Restoration - Berean Patriot

“In the first five or six centuries of Christianity there were six theological schools, of which four (Alexandria, Antioch, Caesarea, and Edessa, or Nisibis) were Universalist, one (Ephesus) accepted conditional immortality; one (Carthage or Rome) taught endless punishment of the wicked. Other theological schools are mentioned as founded by Universalists, but their actual doctrine on this subject is not known.”

~ “The Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge” by Schaff-Herzog, 1908, volume 12, page 96

Your question harkens all the way back to the lie Satan told Eve...'you shall not surely die'

 

[justbyfaith]

Before you jump the gun, you should "study to show yourself approved" -
An Analytical Study of Words

Thankfully, only someone who is looking for a teacher to tell them what their itching ears want to hear (2 Timothy 4:3) would even read what is behind that link.

It is a long and drawn out treatise that attempts to change the meaning of what God plainly says in His word in the kjv.

I do believe that when educated Greek and Hebrew scholars come into the fray, that they are going to be bringing in a perspective of unbelief.

The educated scribes and Pharisees rejected Jesus; while the common people heard Him gladly.

So, the educated are basically the ones who are going to be teaching things that will cause their readers to end in unbelief.

We really do need to heed the warnings of scripture about hell and the lake of fire and not be deceived by these "scholars" who have set out to deceive the hearts of the unsuspecting.

I will only say that the doctrine of hell and the lake of fire is conducive to what we call the fear of the Lord; and to deny the reality of these things is to diminish the fear of the LORD.

Job 28:20, Whence then cometh wisdom? and where is the place of understanding?
Job 28:21, Seeing it is hid from the eyes of all living, and kept close from the fowls of the air.
Job 28:22, Destruction and death say, We have heard the fame thereof with our ears.
Job 28:23, God understandeth the way thereof, and he knoweth the place thereof.
Job 28:24, For he looketh to the ends of the earth, and seeth under the whole heaven;
Job 28:25, To make the weight for the winds; and he weigheth the waters by measure.
Job 28:26, When he made a decree for the rain, and a way for the lightning of the thunder:
Job 28:27, Then did he see it, and declare it; he prepared it, yea, and searched it out.
Job 28:28, And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.

 

[High Premise]

Thankfully, only someone who is looking for a teacher to tell them what their itching ears want to hear (2 Timothy 4:3) would even read what is behind that link.

It is a long and drawn out treatise that attempts to change the meaning of what God plainly says in His word in the kjv.

I do believe that when educated Greek and Hebrew scholars come into the fray, that they are going to be bringing in a perspective of unbelief.

The educated scribes and Pharisees rejected Jesus; while the common people heard Him gladly.

So, the educated are basically the ones who are going to be teaching things that will cause their readers to end in unbelief.

We really do need to heed the warnings of scripture about hell and the lake of fire and not be deceived by these "scholars" who have set out to deceive the hearts of the unsuspecting.

I will only say that the doctrine of hell and the lake of fire is conducive to what we call the fear of the Lord; and to deny the reality of these things is to diminish the fear of the LORD.

Job 28:20, Whence then cometh wisdom? and where is the place of understanding?
Job 28:21, Seeing it is hid from the eyes of all living, and kept close from the fowls of the air.
Job 28:22, Destruction and death say, We have heard the fame thereof with our ears.
Job 28:23, God understandeth the way thereof, and he knoweth the place thereof.
Job 28:24, For he looketh to the ends of the earth, and seeth under the whole heaven;
Job 28:25, To make the weight for the winds; and he weigheth the waters by measure.
Job 28:26, When he made a decree for the rain, and a way for the lightning of the thunder:
Job 28:27, Then did he see it, and declare it; he prepared it, yea, and searched it out.
Job 28:28, And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.

In the Lake of Fire are the "fearful, unbelieving, whoremongers, idolators and all liars" - sounds like a lot of christians out there (Rev 21:8).

Tell me, are you Inside or Outside the "Gates of Hell" - Jesus said they would not prevail against HIS CHURCH (Matthew 16:18) - His Church are those that keep his saying and escape death (John 8:51).
The Nordic name Hell was transposed on Matthew 16:18, where the greek word Hades was used by Jesus.

 

[High Premise]

Your question harkens all the way back to the lie Satan told Eve...'you shall not surely die'

Sounds like Jesus now - "He that keeps my sayings shall never see death" - John 8:51.
Or, would you prefer to die with the masses of wolf-children in the blackness of darkness in the Wide Gate to Death with all the Wolves in Sheep's Clothing - Matthew 7:13-15

 

[07-07-07]

I met a JW at Walmart this morning and had a discussion about the reality of Hell, which goes contrary to their belief. Nevertheless, Jesus clearly states that Hell is real, and it is a place of torment and fire.

Luke 16
[19] There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
[20] And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
[21] And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
[22] And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
[23] And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
[24] And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
[25] But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
[26] And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
[27] Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
[28] For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
[29] Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
[30] And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
[31] And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

 

[High Premise]

I met a JW at Walmart this morning and had a discussion about the reality of Hell, which goes contrary to their belief. Nevertheless, Jesus clearly states that Hell is real, and it is a place of torment and fire.

Luke 16
[19] There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
[20] And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
[21] And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
[22] And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
[23] And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
[24] And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
[25] But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
[26] And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
[27] Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
[28] For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
[29] Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
[30] And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
[31] And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Parable or Literal, the rich man who represents Judah (Judah had 5 brothers - Vs 28), called Abraham 'Father' and Abraham called him 'Son' - "and so ALL Israel shall be saved" - Rom 11:26. The parable is about the Election of Grace. The begger showed no sign of 'believing in Jesus'.
Back to the drawing board.

Jonah was in the "belly of HELL" too - Jonah 2:2.
David "made his bed in HELL" too - Psalm 139:8

Damnationist's kinda skip over those verses or flat out are not aware of them.
Usually the latter is true.

 

[07-07-07]

Parable or Literal, the rich man who represents Judah (Judah had 5 brothers - Vs 28), called Abraham 'Father' and Abraham called him 'Son' - "and so ALL Israel shall be saved" - Rom 11:26. The parable is about the Election of Grace. The begger showed no sign of 'believing in Jesus'.
Back to the drawing board.

Jonah was in the "belly of HELL" too - Jonah 2:2.
David "made his bed in HELL" too - Psalm 139:8

Damnationist's kinda skip over those verses or flat out are not aware of them.
Usually the latter is true.

Not a Parable. Study Jesus' parables; He never used real names. With the story of the rich man, however, he did, which makes it a real account. Hell is real, and the flames are real. So, in conclusion, I believe Jesus, not people who are offended at Him and His words.

 

[High Premise]

Not a Parable. Study Jesus' parables; He never used real names. With the story of the rich man, however, he did, which makes it a real account. Hell is real, and the flames are real. So, in conclusion, I believe Jesus, not people who are offended at Him and His words.

Your quandary is that Abraham called him 'Son' - and thus, "ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED" - Rom 11:26.
You kinda skipped over that reality. Damnationist's always do.

 

[07-07-07]

Your quandary is that Abraham called him 'Son' - and thus, "ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED" - Rom 11:26.
You kinda skipped over that reality. Damnationist's always do.

To entertain you, All Jews came through Abraham's lions, and thus he would be a son of Abraham. But, I know you are just using this as a distraction to what Jesus was teaching.

Luke 19
[8] And Zacchaeus [the chief among the publicans] stood, and said unto the Lord; Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.
[9] And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.
[10] For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

 

[High Premise]

To entertain you, All Jews came through Abraham's lions, and thus he would be a son of Abraham. But, I know you are just using this as a distraction to what Jesus was teaching.

Luke 19
[8] And Zacchaeus [the chief among the publicans] stood, and said unto the Lord; Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusationtion, I restore him fourfold.
[9] And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.
[10] For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

Truth is a distraction? You simply don't know the spiritual nature of what Hades is.
You don't know anything of what I believe - You also avoided Romans 11:26, because you learned something about who the Rich Man was, didn't you -

Tell me, are you Inside or Outside the "Gates of HELL" (Hades)? - Matthew 16:18.
You have to answer one way or the other.
Once you figure that out, tell me, where is the one and only time Apostle Paul mentioned Hades (HELL)?
Once you find it, try explaining HELL (Hades) in the context, using the spiritual interpretation, and your interpretation must line up with Matthew 16:18 and Luke 16:23.

 

[justbyfaith]

Tell me, are you Inside or Outside the "Gates of HELL" (Hades)? - Matthew 16:18.

The church will continue to storm the gates of hell in order to rescue people out of it.

 

[justbyfaith]

Once you figure that out, tell me, where is the one and only time Apostle Paul mentioned Hades (HELL)?

Romans 11:9-10?

 

[High Premise]

Romans 11:9-10?

nope. where is the word Hades there?

 

[High Premise]

The church will continue to storm the gates of hell in order to rescue people out of it.

Storm from the Inside or Outside?

 

[justbyfaith]

nope. where is the word Hades there?

The concept is there. Is it not?

Rom 11:9, And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
Rom 11:10, Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

Storm from the Inside or Outside?

From the outside...we have already been rescued from hell...we storm its gates in order to rescue others.