Where do people get the spiritual authority?
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Well, the Bible sets out all sorts of beliefs and practices for the Christian either to avoid or to adopt. Some of these beliefs, though, are more...tertiary, they "orbit" the core of the Christian faith, like the moon around the earth, having an effect on Christian thinking but not of an essential, vital sort.
- Dispensationalism vs. Covenantalism.
- Eschatology (e.g. pre-mill, a-mill, post- mill., full-preterist, partial preterist, supersessionism, etc.)
- Form of baptism (sprinkle, pour, immerse).
- The Great Flood: Global or regional?
- The age of the earth.
And so on.
Unfortunately, some Christians take up "majoring in the minors," they "make (doctrinal) mountains out of mole-hills," inflating secondary truths to a status out of proportion to what the truths are given in God's word.
Why? I think some of the time doing this makes the one who's doing it more prominent, a sort of self-appointed belief-regulator, who stands in Christ's place separating out the "goats" from the "sheep" on the basis of their own personal dogma. Usually, when this is the case, there is some pretty serious distortion of God's truth going on.
Having said all this, there are some non-negotiables of the faith, certain truths that must not be ignored, or distorted, the holding of which distinguishes a person as "of the faith."
- Jesus is God (Col. 1:13-22; 2:9-10; Jn. 1:1-4; 10:30).
- Jesus died on the cross in sacrificial atonement for the sins of all mankind, past, present and future (1 Co. 15:3-4; 1 Jn. 4:9-10; 2 Co. 5:21; He. 7-10:22).
- Jesus rose from the dead in vindication of his claims to be divine (See all four Gospels).
- Salvation can only be found in the Saviour and in trusting in him as such and submitting to him as one's Lord (Ro. 10:9-10; Jn. 3:15-16).
- the Bible is the divinely-inspired word of God, sufficient to establish for all believers their beliefs and practices as believers. (2 Ti. 3:16-17; Ps. 1, 119, Matt. 4:4)
And so on.
God calls His own to both promulgate and defend the "non-negotiables" of the faith (1 Pe. 3:15; Matt. 28:19-20), regarding as accursed any who attempt to distort the Gospel (Ga. 1:8), and fighting off the "ravening wolves" prowling always around the Church (Ac. 20:29-30; Jude 1:4-19).
Thank you for sharing what you believe.
Still no person has spiritual authority over any individual.
It's not enough for some people to just believe on Jesus, according to some. Or even just believe that God exist.
They must adhere to everything the bible states? But says whom?
here is a condensed down version of what you shared.
Summary of Key Points:
- Core vs. Peripheral Beliefs: The Bible outlines essential truths and practices, but not all doctrines carry equal weight. Some, like views on baptism, eschatology, or the flood's scope, orbit around the core faith and shouldn't be overemphasized.
- The Danger of Elevating Minor Doctrines: Christians sometimes "major in the minors," inflating secondary beliefs to an unhealthy level. This can result in distorted theology and a spirit of self-appointed judgment.
- Non-Negotiables of the Faith:
- Jesus is God.
- Jesus died as a sacrificial atonement for humanity's sins.
- Jesus rose from the dead, affirming His divinity.
- Salvation is found only in Christ.
- Scripture is divinely inspired and authoritative.
- Defending the Faith: Believers are called to share and uphold foundational truths, resist distortions, and guard the Church from false teachings.
They do so, though, because modern believers in North America remain spiritually-juvenile, believing that truly knowing God well happens only for the "expert" who's been to seminary and obtained academic credentials. These believers have an understanding of their faith that is a "mile-wide but an inch deep," able to tell you what various key words in the NT mean in the original Koine Greek, or the historical/cultural/political context in which the NT church at Ephesus existed, but who have no idea what it is to enjoy fellowship with God every day. They can spout a vast collection of Christian slogans and catch-phrases but can anchor none of them to God's word in any cohesive and careful way. They believe they are actually walking well with God though their lives are crowded with bitterness, lust, anger, inordinate self-interest and pride. And so on. It's no wonder that this sort of Christian - sensual, simplistic, and sinful, as s/he is - is easily "hijacked" into the deceptions that swirl around the Church today in a vast cloud.
My point here is that deceivers succeed in the Church because the Church is ignorant, compromised and weak, not just because they're clever at deceiving Christians.
More than this, we ought to be walking in daily fellowship with God, enjoying Him deeply, coming more and more to know the "breadth, length, depth and height of the love God that we might be filled with all His fullness" (Eph. 3:17-19). Only when this is the case can a Christian truly claim to be honoring and pleasing God (1 Co. 1:9; 2 Co. 13:14; 1 Jn. 1:9; Rev. 3:20; Matt. 22:36-38).
No professing Christian will stand firm amidst severe persecution who doesn't know God well. Not know about God. Know Him personally, directly, in a daily, life-changing, powerful way. Without this experience of God, no believer will suffer persecution in the way God intends that they should, from a heart filled with love for Him, joyfully dying for the sake of Christ. (1 Co. 13:3). Sadly, most Christians are keen to "honor God" by doing their best to live holy lives, knowing nothing of what it is to walk in direct, personal fellowship with Him throughout every day. And so, when they seek to glorify Him in all they do, they cannot, knowing God only from a distance, academically, without a personal, transformative experience of Him. In such Christian living, however moral, however upright, God can not be truly glorified because He is not truly known.
Another question? What church?
I thought human beings become the temple of God?
What good does a brick and mortar church do? Sure you can maybe find someone who actually teachs the bible and fellowship if you are lucky, but the relationship between the persons are between them and God.
I thought human beings become the temple of God?
What good does a brick and mortar church do? Sure you can maybe find someone who actually teachs the bible and fellowship if you are lucky, but the relationship between the persons are between them and God.
Only what authority they agree to give to an Elder/Pastor/Overseer/Bishop.
I wonder, though, why this is an issue for you. It's one thing to be very careful who you install as a spiritual authority in your life, but its quite another to resist all authority, refusing to be taught or led by any older, spiritually well-seasoned, Christ-honoriong man. Guys in particular often take up a radical independence from every spiritual authority, becoming unteachable and defiant toward all leaders in the Church. This sort of thing is just as bad in its own way as being a credulous, simplistic believer who accepts anything they're told about the faith.
Enough for what?
What do you mean by "adhere to everything the Bible states"? It states a great many things, not all of which are applicable to you or I today.
This isn't AI generated, I hope. I'd hate to think a machine is in any way curating my discussion with you.
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Im sure it does a fine job at summing up things. And helping out with my own tone.
Hello @Kokyu
I hold firm to the belief that the Spirit is not only vital but the most viable guide for living. While I deeply value the Bible—its rich narratives, historical depth, and the context of the people during the time of Yeshua’s arrival—I ultimately recognize God as the supreme authority, who lovingly disciplines His children.
It is a blessing to have individuals who devote themselves to studying and teaching the Scriptures. Still, we must acknowledge that not everything taught is necessarily aligned with truth. This is why I emphasize the leading of the Spirit above mere textual knowledge, even while affirming the significance and wisdom found within Scripture.
Today, spiritual autonomy is essential. Each person is responsible for discerning what they believe regarding Scripture, and not all passages are directly applicable to our modern context. Interpretation requires thoughtful reflection and spiritual insight.
There are undoubtedly spiritual benefits in pursuing growth through Yeshua—strengthening our inner lives and cultivating our relationship with the Father. Any doctrine or belief that fosters hatred or stems from falsehood should be discarded. Only those teachings which reflect spiritual truth and cultivate love, humility, and holiness should remain.
As written in Hebrews, God is capable of shaking everything—revealing what is eternal and unshakable. Ultimately, it is the spiritually grounded truths—Heavenly Wisdom and the fruits of the Spirit—that endure, flowing from the transformation of a heart renewed by Him.
I hold firm to the belief that the Spirit is not only vital but the most viable guide for living. While I deeply value the Bible—its rich narratives, historical depth, and the context of the people during the time of Yeshua’s arrival—I ultimately recognize God as the supreme authority, who lovingly disciplines His children.
It is a blessing to have individuals who devote themselves to studying and teaching the Scriptures. Still, we must acknowledge that not everything taught is necessarily aligned with truth. This is why I emphasize the leading of the Spirit above mere textual knowledge, even while affirming the significance and wisdom found within Scripture.
Today, spiritual autonomy is essential. Each person is responsible for discerning what they believe regarding Scripture, and not all passages are directly applicable to our modern context. Interpretation requires thoughtful reflection and spiritual insight.
There are undoubtedly spiritual benefits in pursuing growth through Yeshua—strengthening our inner lives and cultivating our relationship with the Father. Any doctrine or belief that fosters hatred or stems from falsehood should be discarded. Only those teachings which reflect spiritual truth and cultivate love, humility, and holiness should remain.
As written in Hebrews, God is capable of shaking everything—revealing what is eternal and unshakable. Ultimately, it is the spiritually grounded truths—Heavenly Wisdom and the fruits of the Spirit—that endure, flowing from the transformation of a heart renewed by Him.
A church that knows and loves God and His word and whose members reveal the life and work of the Holy Spirit in them.
Yes, right. Do you think this means that a Christian may be a church all by himself?
Is this what God's word says? The buildings in which the Church meets aren't important, but the fellowship of believers, their worship of God together, and their loving spiritual edification of one another, is very important.
1 Corinthians 12:12-20
12 For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ.
13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.
14 For in fact the body is not one member but many.
15 If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I am not of the body,” is it therefore not of the body?
16 And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I am not of the body,” is it therefore not of the body?
17 If the whole body were an eye, where would be the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where would be the smelling?
18 But now God has set the members, each one of them, in the body just as He pleased.
19 And if they were all one member, where would the body be?
20 But now indeed there are many members, yet one body. 21 And the eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you”; nor again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.”
Ephesians 4:11-16
11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers,
12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the [e]edifying of the body of Christ,
13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;
14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting,
15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ—
16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.
Herbrews 10:23-25
Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful.
24 And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works,
25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.
That day that Approaching which the Hebrews writer mentions to them concerns the return of the LORD.
I don't think that is applicable to me today.
Faith and love is what is all about today.
Everyone of those you quoted concerned the people in that day in time, and there are spiritual applications and principles founded within them.
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Do you mean in regards to the basis upon which one is saved? His example puts a BIG crimp in the idea that one has to have good works (e.g baptism) that accompany their salvation in order for them to be truly saved. But he did fulfill the requirements of Romans 10:9-10:
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
The story of the Thief on the Cross, accords very well with the following verses/passages:
Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
Titus 3:5-7
5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,
6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
2 Timothy 1:9
9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,
You're very knowledgeable when it comes to quoting scripture—impressive! It's evident that you have a deep understanding of the Bible, and that's truly commendable.
I am just asking questions, how you respond to them is up to you.
The thief on the cross, just believed as far I know. Idk all he knew about Yeshua. It could have been his first time meeting him, or hearing of him.
Anyone in the world can scripture quote if they have read enough of the bible.
But where does the spiritual authority come from? God ulitmately, he even chastens his own children.
Idk who knew that or didn't know that.
But where does the spiritual authority come from? God ulitmately, he even chastens his own children.
Idk who knew that or didn't know that.
That Day is always approaching. Every second that passes, it draws nearer. There is no time, then, that is excluded from "the day approaching." And the writer of Hebrews doesn't say to begin to assemble together when the the Day is seen to approach, but to do so even more when it's approach is evident. To do so even more would require that one is already doing so, right?
No, there is no "lone wolf" Christian, no "island" Christian, but only those who are, by the Holy Spirit, made "members one of another," gifted by God spiritually to the edification of one another, as those passages I quoted indicate. Those who say to the Body "I have no need of you" are harming both themselves and the Body.
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If you say so. I believe anyone whom comes to God and is adopted into his Kingdom, has a family.
A family of believers on earth, and a family of believers in Heaven.
Would you say that God will reject me cause I haven't been to church in idk... years.
Please give me the reason why, you have the authority to say so?
It isn't merely that I say so. God's word does.
Yes, if you've been born-again, you've gained a spiritual family; and to that family each member of it has God-commanded responsibilities. No Christian can claim to be walking well with God while neglecting the Body of Believers of which God has made them a part, giving to His children spiritual gifts He intends each of them should use to the edification of the Body.
1 Corinthians 12:12-20
12 For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ.
13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.
14 For in fact the body is not one member but many.
15 If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I am not of the body,” is it therefore not of the body?
16 And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I am not of the body,” is it therefore not of the body?
17 If the whole body were an eye, where would be the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where would be the smelling?
18 But now God has set the members, each one of them, in the body just as He pleased.
19 And if they were all one member, where would the body be?
20 But now indeed there are many members, yet one body. 21 And the eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you”; nor again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.”
Ephesians 4:11-16
11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers,
12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the [e]edifying of the body of Christ,
13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;
14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting,
15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ—
16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.
Herbrews 10:23-25
Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful.
24 And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works,
25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.
I don't say so, God does. See above. Would you say, in light of the above passages, that God is pleased with your persistent separation from the Body of which He's made you a part? The Bible says that we know we have passed from death unto life if we love the brethren (1 Jn. 3:14). How do you love the brethren well while remaining for years separate from them? To properly love your siblings in the Lord, to love them best, you must have a personal relationship with them, your life open to them in self-sacrificing care of them (1 Jn. 4:7-11). Is this how you've been living?
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