Where do people get the spiritual authority?

[JohnDB]

I don't believe there is any on earth that can go around with spiritual authority today.


I don't even believe in all those faith healer stuff or anything like there.


There are many liars out there that try to con people, and also try to be the middle man between them and God.

Spiritual authority exists....despite your beliefs.
However it does not exist to control you like you believe it to be. It exists to assist you to see your sin, to help you understand why something is wrong. So that you might repent of your sin.

Kinda like when Nathan went to David with his famous "You are the man" correction.
David believed that Nathan was God's prophet and accepted Nathan's position.
David knew what he did was wrong even if he did do it in secret. He also knew it was now widely known. And David did repent. David also paid SOME consequences for his sin that came out of left field for him....but it was what Nathan told him would happen.

David couldn't predict it....he didn't understand that his sin was the result of sinful attitudes he developed which affected his whole house and ultimately the entire kingdom.

Pride today makes people "double down" on their sins. They reject anyone else's understanding and refuse to hear logic...all due to pride. Blame shifting, excusing, and minimizing their sins when revealed to them. This inability to admit wrongdoing is due to pride and exemplifies Pharisee behavior.
(The Pharisees were used as an example for a timeless reason....meaning we are going to have Pharisees throughout time.)

Submitting to one another in all humility is essential for Christian life. We aren't talking about those who promote proverbial "hand washing" ceremonies....but so I won't offend I will wash my hands along side when amongst those who do. I won't get branded or tattooed or scarred for trying not to offend....but most other things are okay.

And I do understand the annoyance of those who claim to speak in tongues...I got not only the t-shirt but also bumper stickers, fridge magnets, salt and pepper shakers, and the commemorative spoon and coin set.

 

[MatthewG]

Spiritual authority exists....despite your beliefs.
However it does not exist to control you like you believe it to be. It exists to assist you to see your sin, to help you understand why something is wrong. So that you might repent of your sin.

Kinda like when Nathan went to David with his famous "You are the man" correction.
David believed that Nathan was God's prophet and accepted Nathan's position.
David knew what he did was wrong even if he did do it in secret. He also knew it was now widely known. And David did repent. David also paid SOME consequences for his sin that came out of left field for him....but it was what Nathan told him would happen.

David couldn't predict it....he didn't understand that his sin was the result of sinful attitudes he developed which affected his whole house and ultimately the entire kingdom.

Pride today makes people "double down" on their sins. They reject anyone else's understanding and refuse to hear logic...all due to pride. Blame shifting, excusing, and minimizing their sins when revealed to them. This inability to admit wrongdoing is due to pride and exemplifies Pharisee behavior.
(The Pharisees were used as an example for a timeless reason....meaning we are going to have Pharisees throughout time.)

Submitting to one another in all humility is essential for Christian life. We aren't talking about those who promote proverbial "hand washing" ceremonies....but so I won't offend I will wash my hands along side when amongst those who do. I won't get branded or tattooed or scarred for trying not to offend....but most other things are okay.

And I do understand the annoyance of those who claim to speak in tongues...I got not only the t-shirt but also bumper stickers, fridge magnets, salt and pepper shakers, and the commemorative spoon and coin set.

Yeah right.

Jesus is all I need to get to God.

Not anyone else.


No person is specially ordained or anything like that to have any type of spiritual authority.


Sorry you are wrong.

 

[MatthewG]

Yeah right.

Jesus is all I need to get to God.

Not anyone else.


No person is specially ordained or anything like that to have any type of spiritual authority.


Sorry you are wrong.

Don’t let anyone—whether a pastor, preacher, or spiritual leader—become your gateway to God. It is through Jesus (Yeshua) alone that those who have faith, seek Him, and understand that their sins are forgiven—because He died, was buried, and rose again—can truly find peace and contentment with God. It's His finished work that makes reconciliation possible, not any human mediator.

 

[JohnDB]

Yeah right.

Jesus is all I need to get to God.

Not anyone else.


No person is specially ordained or anything like that to have any type of spiritual authority.


Sorry you are wrong.

What is the Second most important Commandment?

How do you read it?
Why is it important?
What does following it look like?
Is it only for a few people or is it for EVERYONE who loves God?

 

[MatthewG]

What is the Second most important Commandment?

How do you read it?
Why is it important?
What does following it look like?
Is it only for a few people or is it for EVERYONE who loves God?

I can't love God or people with abiding in Christ, he is the one whom helps me perform those actions...

Yeshua said "abide in me or without me you can do nothing."

Yeshua also said "this is the work of God, to believe on the one whom he had sent."

John wrote "Believe on the Son of God, and love one another."

Therefore I can not do it without him.

 

[JohnDB]

What does "Love your neighbor as yourself " mean?

I can't love God or people with abiding in Christ, he is the one whom helps me perform those actions...

Yeshua said "abide in me or without me you can do nothing."

Yeshua also said "this is the work of God, to believe on the one whom he had sent."

John wrote "Believe on the Son of God, and love one another."

Therefore I can not do it without him.

 

[MatthewG]

What does "Love your neighbor as yourself " mean?

Why dont' you know?

 

[JohnDB]

Why dont' you know?

I do....
But MY understanding is not relevant at the moment.
How you understand what that direct Commandment by Jesus means does matter and is completely relevant to the OP this thread is based upon.

It is the crux of the matter in my estimation.
And
Likely the reason why you are vascillating.

 

[MatthewG]

I do....
But MY understanding is not relevant at the moment.
How you understand what that direct Commandment by Jesus means does matter and is completely relevant to the OP this thread is based upon.

It is the crux of the matter in my estimation.
And
Likely the reason why you are vascillating.

WEll you dont have any spiritual authority.

So.

Unless you just special, and think so.

 

[JohnDB]

The whole crux of the Gospel message and Faith that we hold is ALL about relationships and how to have positive relationships with God AND your fellow man. No matter what your thoughts on his theologies might be.

I completely understand how we might say "Loving and liking God is easy, but loving and liking his kids is almost impossible "

And you can't be a believer without loving God's kids. Because God is Love....
And if we wish to emulate God...we have to do it easily and willingly.

It's all related to gratitude, humility, and grace. Even long-suffering.

 

[nedsk]

Not in the way Catholics think and do.

Because you say so? Im not impressed. I just read the words Jesus uttered. Why dont you show me from the church fathers that they agree with you?

 

[MatthewG]

The whole crux of the Gospel message and Faith that we hold is ALL about relationships and how to have positive relationships with God AND your fellow man. No matter what your thoughts on his theologies might be.

I completely understand how we might say "Loving and liking God is easy, but loving and liking his kids is almost impossible "

And you can't be a believer without loving God's kids. Because God is Love....
And if we wish to emulate God...we have to do it easily and willingly.

It's all related to gratitude, humility, and grace. Even long-suffering.

I love everyone, but I set boundaries with people.

I am not Jesus Christ. Jesus is whom he is, and by his spirit there is only good that comes from one that abides in him.

You're not going to portray Jesus, except with him in you....

Many people have trouble accepting that and don't realize how their flesh does no good.




many people think "oh look what I did for this person or that person or whatever." All fine and great, but if you are doing it for God, you more than likely wont tell anyone... just to make yourself look good.


Who cares what you did, it wasn't you that did it if you abiding in Jesus anyway.


Many people don't like this way of putting it...

 

[MatthewG]

"Oh i healed a person yada yada yada"

Yeah okay... GLORY TO GOD but look what I was used for....

bunch of deception.


I don't believe it. Why wont this cancer leave my body then... Why is it still there.




Oh matthew it's cause your not faithful enough

you dont believ ein the real jesus of the bible.


bunch of malarky.

 

[JohnDB]

"Oh i healed a person yada yada yada"

Yeah okay... GLORY TO GOD but look what I was used for....

bunch of deception.


I don't believe it. Why wont this cancer leave my body then... Why is it still there.




Oh matthew it's cause your not faithful enough

you dont believ ein the real jesus of the bible.


bunch of malarky.

Part of love is loving what others love.

God loves people. He loves them so much that He sent his son to die for them.

Now we can't do that...it would be pointless.
But that doesn't mean that we can't do lesser things to help our fellow man draw closer to God. And regardless of what some might think...I tend to believe God likes it when we do so.

Of course there are those who are going to claim idiotic things or do things for the praise. Corporations do that. Not those who love God. Jesus was the least popular of all the messiahs running around Israel during his time period. He just happened to be the real one over the fakers and scam artists. (There were several listed in Acts...and many others....and likely a BUNCH of them today as well. Simon Magnus is an example and has become a derogatory term called Simony.)
So a person who loves God is definitely going to be somewhat underground....much more of a grass roots sort of person.

Anyone who is seen actively garnering praise for their deeds....probably ain't a child of God. I'm not privy to "the list". But let's just say I wouldn't put money on their salvation.

Everyone wants to be "special" in some fashion. And that's a problem with pride/ego. Children of God don't try to be "special" or "extra". They just are....but try to hide it as best as possible.

I can't fix cancer. Only God can. But apparently that's not on his agenda. Modern medicine can...maybe....but only if your insurance will pay for it. (Huge mess of insurance companies not acting in good faith)

 

[JohnDB]

I love everyone, but I set boundaries with people.

I am not Jesus Christ. Jesus is whom he is, and by his spirit there is only good that comes from one that abides in him.

You're not going to portray Jesus, except with him in you....

Many people have trouble accepting that and don't realize how their flesh does no good.




many people think "oh look what I did for this person or that person or whatever." All fine and great, but if you are doing it for God, you more than likely wont tell anyone... just to make yourself look good.


Who cares what you did, it wasn't you that did it if you abiding in Jesus anyway.


Many people don't like this way of putting it...

And just because other people sin....that in no way licenses your own. Never has before. It doesn't now.

God created you to be you. A special creation all unto himself. You must not allow others to influence who God created you to be.

We can't "fix" anyone. Can't even "fix" my own kids. But yet somehow I'm supposedly supposed to supernaturally fix others? Uhhhhh....that's indicative of some sort of psychosis right there.

 

[Lizbeth]

Because you say so? Im not impressed. I just read the words Jesus uttered. Why dont you show me from the church fathers that they agree with you?

The only church fathers I recognize are the apostles....of whom Paul said ye have not many fathers. And he said after he departed this life, wolves would come in not sparing the flock.

And he also wrote this:

2Co 11:3-4

But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

 

[MatthewG]

Okay? And we can all be honest in that we don’t have spiritual authority…

There only one Jesus I’ve learned about, he died on the cross for mankind and paid for sins and love Yahavah and loved mankind.

 

[MatthewG]

And just because other people sin....that in no way licenses your own. Never has before. It doesn't now.

God created you to be you. A special creation all unto himself. You must not allow others to influence who God created you to be.

We can't "fix" anyone. Can't even "fix" my own kids. But yet somehow I'm supposedly supposed to supernaturally fix others? Uhhhhh....that's indicative of some sort of psychosis right there.

Idk what you’re talking about.

You know there are mothers and fathers that will smack their own children if they don’t sing the family song at the dinner table…

Well I know one thing, while mothers and fathers have only so much time with their children, they eventually can leave.

It sucks for my niece and nephew whom were allowed to be sexually assaulted because of a choice my sister made with the man she lived with and was married to at the time..:.


Sick stuff like this happens in the world and unfortunately that stuff is hard to fix, however by the grace of God I hope they don’t repeat the same thing…

My nephew already did repeat it he is 23 years old and in Jail been there for theee years. I hate what he choose to do but it was his decision….

And I hope he never does it again when he gets out if he ever does…


There all kind mess up stuff people do out there.


Jesus paid for the people’s sins and he is the one to look to have a fixed heart.


No one is perfect and no one has spiritual authority to say



“YOU MUST OBEY ME!”

That’s cult like mentality. Especially when they are trying to force grown adults to believe them and they don’t never say to the group….


“HEY DONT TRUST ME LOOK FOR YOURSELF”


Aside from that when you do something illegal and are caught guess what exists for a person.


Jail/Prison.

 

[MatthewG]

G

dk what you’re talking about.

You know there are mothers and fathers that will smack their own children if they don’t sing the family song at the dinner table…

Well I know one thing, while mothers and fathers have only so much time with their children, they eventually can leave.

It sucks for my niece and nephew whom were allowed to be sexually assaulted because of a choice my sister made with the man she lived with and was married to at the time..:.


Sick stuff like this happens in the world and unfortunately that stuff is hard to fix, however by the grace of God I hope they don’t repeat the same thing…

My nephew already did repeat it he is 23 years old and in Jail been there for theee years. I hate what he choose to do but it was his decision….

And I hope he never does it again when he gets out if he ever does…


There all kind mess up stuff people do out there.


Jesus paid for the people’s sins and he is the one to look to have a fixed heart.


No one is perfect and no one has spiritual authority to say



“YOU MUST OBEY ME!”

That’s cult like mentality. Especially when they are trying to force grown adults to believe them and they don’t never say to the group….


“HEY DONT TRUST ME LOOK FOR YOURSELF”


Aside from that when you do something illegal and are caught guess what exists for a person.


Jail/Prison.

Some families enforce traditions so strictly that children are punished for not following them, even something as small as not singing a family song at dinner. But ultimately, parents only have a limited time with their children—they eventually move on, leaving lasting impacts behind.

Sadly, in my own family, devastating choices led to real harm. My niece and nephew experienced abuse because of the man my sister chose to live with and marry. Tragedies like this are deeply painful, and although healing can be incredibly difficult, I hold onto hope through God's grace that this pattern won’t continue.

But it already has, in part. My nephew is now 23 and serving time in jail—a decision he made himself, one I wish he hadn’t. I pray he never makes that choice again if he gets another chance.

There’s no shortage of wrongdoing out there. People hurt others, act out, and fall short. But I believe change is possible. Through Jesus, who gave His life to redeem our sins, we can seek transformation. A healed heart starts there.

No one is perfect—and no one has the authority to demand blind obedience from others. That kind of control is cult-like, especially when people discourage others from seeking truth for themselves.

Real faith invites questions. It says, “Don’t just trust me—look into it yourself.”

And when someone breaks the law and gets caught, we have systems in place: jail and prison exist to deal with those consequences.

 

[JohnDB]

G


Some families enforce traditions so strictly that children are punished for not following them, even something as small as not singing a family song at dinner. But ultimately, parents only have a limited time with their children—they eventually move on, leaving lasting impacts behind.

Sadly, in my own family, devastating choices led to real harm. My niece and nephew experienced abuse because of the man my sister chose to live with and marry. Tragedies like this are deeply painful, and although healing can be incredibly difficult, I hold onto hope through God's grace that this pattern won’t continue.

But it already has, in part. My nephew is now 23 and serving time in jail—a decision he made himself, one I wish he hadn’t. I pray he never makes that choice again if he gets another chance.

There’s no shortage of wrongdoing out there. People hurt others, act out, and fall short. But I believe change is possible. Through Jesus, who gave His life to redeem our sins, we can seek transformation. A healed heart starts there.

No one is perfect—and no one has the authority to demand blind obedience from others. That kind of control is cult-like, especially when people discourage others from seeking truth for themselves.

Real faith invites questions. It says, “Don’t just trust me—look into it yourself.”

And when someone breaks the law and gets caught, we have systems in place: jail and prison exist to deal with those consequences.

Ok....
You might be confused between what Spiritual authority is and what people believe it to be.

Spiritual Authority is more along the lines of what we deem to be more of leadership role of willing followers. It's definitely not a dictatorial/subject relationship whatsoever. The "authority" is not authority over people. It is the authority of knowing God's word and accurately applying that knowledge to a situation so that you can explain what God wants from us. It's that wisdom which stems from a relationship with God. Thats the authority....it has nothing to do with telling other people what they must do.
Authority such as a political appointment is also strongly discouraged in scripture.

In scripture, leaders are ALWAYS symbolized by a light source such as a candle/lamp or a star. Because that's what they are. Just a light. Not a shepherd dog or a wolf or some other predatory animal. We shine God's light in a dark world.

A leader can make a request but that's about it. The closest to an "order" it gets is when someone is definitely promoting a known and obvious sin within the group. That's it. We tell the group what is happening and explain the particulars. The group usually then shuns the predator.

The situations you have described are the horrible result of either poor choices or poor behavior....I agree that this is why the world needs people like us. We know better than to do these things. We even know why they are wrong and how they hurt other people. We, the light bearers, are there to help keep others from stumbling over a poor choice or poor reactions before they ever get to that point of "angering our sons" or allowing a wolf to devour our children.

You have a LOT of biblical knowledge....you can exercise the authority given to you to help others. Of course you aren't going to boss others around. We aren't given that sort of position. (Unless a team lead or foreman at work) but it doesn't apply so much to your own family.