Where do the two witness' prophesy for the 1260 days of the GT?

[Arnie Manitoba]

My response: How do you suggest that they get around the world without the mark to purchase tickets?

Good question ..... I never considered that.

 

[veteran]

Could be ..... but maybe they prophecy around the world first ..... and then the Jews kill them when they get to jerusalem and the rest of the world rejoices at their deaths.

it seems clear all the nations hate the witnesses and i would think they would have heard them prophecy live , and in person , as well as experience first hand the plagues caused by the witnesses

If not , then it would mean the witnesses use television or media to prophecy to all the world

I believe the two witnesses will prophesy directly from Jerusalem, and, that there will be media coverage to the rest of the world. How much I couldn't say.

Call this next part supposition, but it's a feeling I get from The Holy Spirit through study of those Revelation Scriptures. The blind Pharisees that rejected Christ's Resurrection tried to get the Roman soldiers that guarded our Lord's tomb to lie, and say His disciples came and stole His body away, i.e., trying to prove our Lord Jesus did not resurrect (Matt.28:11-15). In Rev.11, the dead bodies of the two witnesses are left laying in the plaza ("street") in Jerusalem for three and one half days, while the world rejoices and throws parties. Could be the media will have cameras on their dead bodies with the blind Pharisees telling the world that they won't resurrect, and that Jesus didn't either. Rev.11 does reveal that all nations will see the dead bodies of the two witnesses, and that points to the media technology of our days.

 

[guysmith]

Veteran,

You stated: Call it supposition if you want, but if they are killed in Jerusalem like Rev.11:8 reveals, then most likely that's also where they will prophesy from.

My response: Many believe that Jerusalem is not the place for any believers at that time. If God protects two (in Jerusalem) is it not possible that God can extend that protection to include a larger group with the two witnesses being the leaders (Like Moses and Aaron)?

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

veteran ... i agree with your supposition in post #22

guysmith .... when you say a larger group could also be protected like the 2W are protected .... I say yes , I think they could .... and if the pre-trib rapture does not happen .... then i think the church will be protected somehow down here in such a fashion.

Anywhere we desire, but we will of course go places such as China where knowing other religions dominates

So when does the 1260 day period begin ? ..... how will you travel without the mark ?.... and how do you cause the plagues ?

 

[John_8:32]

veteran ... i agree with your supposition in post #22

guysmith .... when you say a larger group could also be protected like the 2W are protected .... I say yes , I think they could .... and if the pre-trib rapture does not happen .... then i think the church will be protected somehow down here in such a fashion.



So when does the 1260 day period begin ?

Thirty days after the setting up of the AoD...

Dan 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.


..... how will you travel without the mark ?[/QUOTE]
Perhaps the only way will be shanks mare. It will not be possible for Christians to buy tickets for any type of transportation or even buy fuel for a car...

Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.


.... and how do you cause the plagues ?
[/quote]

The witnesses will cause plagues as Moses, Elijah and Elisha did, they will ask God and God will do the deed.

The most interesting part of your post though is this...

>>
guys
mith .... when you say a larger group could also be protected like the 2W are protected .... I say yes , I think they could .... and if the pre-trib rapture does not happen .... then i think the church will be protected somehow down here in such a fashion.

I beleive that this is the EXACT meaning of...

Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

The word 'wilderness' in verse 14 does not refer to a rapture to heaven...

wilderness:

G2048
ἔρημος
erēmos
er'-ay-mos
Of uncertain affinity; lonesome, that is, (by implication) waste (usually as a noun, G5561 being implied): - desert, desolate, solitary, wilderness.

From Albert Barnes...

That she might fly into the wilderness - There is here a more full description of what is briefly stated in Rev_12:6. A wilderness or desert is often represented as a place of safety from pursuers. Thus David 1Sa_23:14-15 is represented as fleeing into the wilderness from the persecutions of Saul. So Elijah 1Ki_19:4 fled into the wilderness from the persecutions of Jezebel. The simple idea here is, that the church, in the opposition which would come upon it, would find a refuge.

The church could be protected in a place (singular) that is her place as in the place designated for her to flee to...

Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Mat 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Mat 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Mat 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

There is a flight from a staging area in Judea (doesn't say Jerusalem specifically). It could be that there is alloted 30 days from the time the AoD is set up until it is impossible to either leave, or the gates to the place of safety are closed. When we read...

Luk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

It indicates there will be those who are accounted worthy to escape and those who are not...

those who are...

Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

those who are not...

Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Notice that this is not the population in general, but those who keep the commandments and have the testimony of Christ.

There are more thoughts on this, such as possible indications of where.[/quote]

I suck at handling quotes.

 

[veteran]

Veteran,

You stated: Call it supposition if you want, but if they are killed in Jerusalem like Rev.11:8 reveals, then most likely that's also where they will prophesy from.

My response: Many believe that Jerusalem is not the place for any believers at that time. If God protects two (in Jerusalem) is it not possible that God can extend that protection to include a larger group with the two witnesses being the leaders (Like Moses and Aaron)?

Well, that is the pattern in Egypt at the time of Moses. Christ Jesus now is our Passover sacrificed for us, according to Apostle Paul (1 Cor.5:7). So that would only apply for believing Jews on Messiah Jesus Christ left in Jerusalem at that time. In Luke 21 our Lord Jesus was inferring to a group of believers on Him being in Jeruslaem for those events of the end, and then said for those in the countries not to enter into that area. So yes, there will be a remnant there in Jerusalem during the two witnesses' ministry.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

John8_32

You missed the fact it was a pun when I asked terry my questions in post #24 ..... terry was suggesting he is one of the 2 witnesses

And pun intended ..... I asked him when the 1260 days began and how he performed the plagues

 

[tgwprophet]

I'm not 'suggesting, I am one of the two witnesses, I am saying it is a fact. Now, how will we travel, very easily, for the Mark of the beast is not mandatory until AFTER the abomination of desolation is committed, and at that time we will be in Israel. Now, as far as the Jews killing us, nope!!! It will be Satan that does this. even the Beast that received the mortal wound and was healed, is not strong enough to kill us, but only Satan is. when does our time begin??? We do not know, and probably will not know until our time starts.

 

[John_8:32]

John8_32

You missed the fact it was a pun when I asked terry my questions in post #24 ..... terry was suggesting he is one of the 2 witnesses

And pun intended ..... I asked him when the 1260 days began and how he performed the plagues

Sorry, guess I did read it over too quickly, now I see what he is saying. Hmmm, Terry, are you in partnerships with Ron Weinland?

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

I'm not 'suggesting, I am one of the two witnesses, I am saying it is a fact. Now, how will we travel, very easily, for the Mark of the beast is not mandatory until AFTER the abomination of desolation is committed, and at that time we will be in Israel. Now, as far as the Jews killing us, nope!!! It will be Satan that does this. even the Beast that received the mortal wound and was healed, is not strong enough to kill us, but only Satan is. when does our time begin??? We do not know, and probably will not know until our time starts.

What is the criteria we should be using to determine who the 2 witnesses actually are

The world has a long list of people who think they are the 2 witnesses

How do we tell ?

 

[Brothertom]

What is the criteria we should be using to determine who the 2 witnesses actually are.
The world has a long list of people who think they are the 2 witnesses.
How do we tell ?.............Arnie

I don't think any will know until the anointing is manifested. You will know when you see or hear of them; Turning rivers into real blood, & fire coming out of their mouths destroying armies....along with the rest of the plagues the Lord has in His arsenal. I also believe that they will lead hundreds of thousands of souls to the Lord. Some, however may know them after the Spirit, & gotten prophetic insight as to their identity. I don't think they tend to draw attention to themselves...they walk in humility & unto the least of the brothers & sisters on the Earth, & bare the fruits of Mercy & Agape Love.

They are hidden now...but a day will come when they will not be. Watch the coast of Texas/Katrina. When you see an air-war for Air Supremacy there, that America loses..[ it will go on & on as America struggles in her death throws...& eventually loses..]..& when you see that....the Tree of healing for ALL Nations will be released by the Lord...& fall directly on the Two witnesses...& for 42 months the Presence of the Lord Jesus shall flow from them in an unprecedented manner.

This is also the time for INSTANT FRUIT for the holy Church, who will glow with visible light & power, when unbelievers who repent & believe & are born again from above will enter in at a mature level...holiness unto the Lord...& all who join her will maintain the highest level ; SPOTLESS & HOLY....& DO exploits!...until the return of Jesus who will clear things up...so to speak.

Then, "Come quickly Lord Jesus!" will be understood more on a much higher level.

 

[tgwprophet]

First, we do not ask God to bring any plague. Understand this would make God ambitious, with plagues on one hand and grace on the other- at the same time. At our starting point, we will have authority carte blanc.We need only speak it to cause any plague and for any duration, up to 1,260 days.

How do we tell who they are?... This is one of the reasons I requested a test be developed. Once the 1,260 days begin no test will be needed. Yes, there are many claimers, but one merely give them rope and they hang themselves, where I will use the rope to make a swing and enjoy a nice day. The test of a prophet is to ask of the Prophet to give prophecy, if it does not come true, then be not afraid of him. That is how to test once the 1,260 days begin, but to test before the 1,260 days requires a different test.

 

[guysmith]

Well, that is the pattern in Egypt at the time of Moses. Christ Jesus now is our Passover sacrificed for us, according to Apostle Paul (1 Cor.5:7). So that would only apply for believing Jews on Messiah Jesus Christ left in Jerusalem at that time. In Luke 21 our Lord Jesus was inferring to a group of believers on Him being in Jeruslaem for those events of the end, and then said for those in the countries not to enter into that area. So yes, there will be a remnant there in Jerusalem during the two witnesses' ministry.

So, knowing of the coming flood of persecution, why would you ( or any post trib believer) not want to be in the safety of God on mount Zion in Jerusalem during the GT?

 

[tgwprophet]

I am not in partnership with Ron... Why? Does he claim to be one of the two witnesses? It so,where is he that I (putting it mild) shall dismiss him.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

terry .... if someone was in the position of claiming they were a prophet they must first give several short term prophecies that unfold with 100% accuracy ..... that is usually how it was done in the OT ....

In modern day we are exposed to lots of claims ..... but there is never any evidence to back up the claims.

 

[tgwprophet]

Who would know more about the Two Witnesses than one of thew Two Witnesses (of course I mean of humans)??? If one was to compile all the information I have posted in this forum concerning us, one could compare that against any "claimer" - (someone claiming to be one of the Two Witnesses) and it would become quite clear. Unbderstand this... concerning Enoch, Elijah, John, Moses or any of the other prophets considered as the Two Witnesses... God NEVER asked a prophet to give up his heritage, meaning this... The Two Witnesses are Gentile Christians and so WE are proof of being grafted unto the vine of the Jews!!! Next, the Jews will not accept us, that is because we are NOT Jews, but rather Gentiles.

We have the authority to ensure our safety ANYWHERE in the entire world and many think we are to be confined to Israel? Please!
Yes, we do die in Israel, but we certainly are not confined there during the 1,260 days, only for the very last few days.

Arnie wrote " terry .... if someone was in the position of claiming they were a prophet they must first give several short term prophecies that unfold with 100% accuracy ..... that is usually how it was done in the OT ...."

Very true Arrnie, BUT and this is one of the reasons we are called "Witnesses" to signify a difference.
Because our time of Prophecy and Plagues begin at a certain time and last a certain period... descerning US before we are given the power of prophecy takes a different test than that of a prophet already given power of prophecy.

 

[veteran]

So, knowing of the coming flood of persecution, why would you ( or any post trib believer) not want to be in the safety of God on mount Zion in Jerusalem during the GT?

You're joking, right?

During the tribulation Mount Zion is where the coming pseudo-Christ is going to sit in power over all nations. That's where Lucifer is going to sit during the coming tribulation, ground zero, trying to do again what he did of old with coveting God's Place in Jerusalem.

When Rev.11 mentions the events of the 3rd Woe coming and the great earthquake, and a 'remnant' there giving praise to God out of fear, that very well could mean unbelieving Jews there that remain who turn to The LORD at that moment.

We already know Christ's command for those of His there when the "abomination of desolation" is setup in Jerusalem to get out of Judea, because His coming there is next to flatten that area and end the pseudo-Christ's reign, and the tribulation. That's what these Scriptures are about...

Luke 21:20-22
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
(KJV)


Matt 24:15-18
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
(KJV)


In that time when abomination idol is setup in Jerusalem by the pseudo-Christ, that is near the end of the tribulation period. Those who flee to Jerusalem for that will be like the dead 'carcase' gathered to where the eagles (vultures) are. No salvation in that. But that is EXACTLY what the Pre-Trib preachers are preparing their congregations to do.

 

[tgwprophet]

This is an opinion... Those taken in the rapture are governed by those who go through the latter part of tribulation

those taken are to be with Jesus, and so... When Jesus comes to reign they come also, and of course this is where Enoch, Elijah or anyone that did not taste death prior to Armageddon could taste death, if it is mandatory. For this is when man can live 1,000 years.

 

[Brothertom]

The 144,000 "Follow the Lamb where-so-ever He goes."...bond slaves. It is possible that they all will be beheaded before it's over; they are not immortal. The Apostles were all butchered...& they have their names emboldened in the Eternal gates. Being safe or not safe is not the issue; it is obedience to follow Him.

 

[Trumpeter]

The 144,000 "Follow the Lamb where-so-ever He goes."...bond slaves. It is possible that they all will be beheaded before it's over; they are not immortal.

Thus says The Lord: Behold My sons, who walk before Me...

They shall not always walk before Me. For the day is coming when I shall go before them, and follow close behind them... Even I shall dwell within them. And as the angels which I had placed at the east of the garden of Eden, and the flaming sword which went this way and that, even in every direction, to guard the way to the tree of life, so shall I protect My witnesses from harm.



For I had sent the angel to block the way to The Tree of Life,
Yet in the Day of The Lord, The Tree shall be in you, My sons...

Even as you will be its branches, partaking of its fullness...

Even of the strength of The Root.


And if My servants partake of The Tree,
And the fullness of The Tree dwells within them...

Then who shall be able to approach them, to do them harm?!


For the day approaches, which shall bring forth the beginning of the end. And the prophets I send shall be as those who had gone before, yet they shall by no means pass away... For as the word of their mouth is, so shall they be also. They shall come and go amongst the multitude, seen and unseen, slaying the mighty and humbling great and powerful nations.



For the power of My own Word shall proceed from their lips...

And whatsoever I cause them to speak,
Whatsoever I cause them to declare or pronounce,
Shall immediately follow...

Lo, it shall be done quickly, it shall not tarry.


NOT ONE WORD shall fall to the ground!... Each word shall be as a piercing dagger! Lo, the Spirit of The Lord shall push them backward, as a mighty wind toppling the hearers... Yea, as a terrible tempest bringing down great men and mighty nations!... Even to the slaying of armies and every company, who dare come against My messengers, or against My people whose name is the remnant!...



I AM THE LORD!