Where does the Pope get his authority?

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Phoneman777

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Please share any scripture that says any specific day of the week should be deemed “holy” to a Christian?
It was mandated to Jews…no one else.

Deut 5:15…
“Remember that you became a slave in the land of Egypt and that Jehovah your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. That is why Jehovah your God commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.

Exodus 31:16-16
“The Israelites must keep the Sabbath; they must observe the Sabbath during all their generations. It is a lasting covenant. 17 It is an enduring sign between me and the people of Israel, for in six days Jehovah made the heavens and the earth and on the seventh day he rested and refreshed himself.’”

There is no Sabbath observance mandated for Christians at all, but that doesn’t mean that those who are Jewish Christians (or anyone else for that matter) can’t still keep the observance if they want to…..there is no law against it either. A day of rest is a good thing especially if it is used for spiritual pursuits. But, it is not a requirement.

The 7th day that God blessed was not a 24 hour day…..creation did not take place 6000 years ago. YEC beliefs are thrown out by science, and the Bible itself does not support 24 hour “days” as if God “spoke” creation into being over a literal week……Jehovah is a Creator, not a magician……every creation is well thought out, planned and made according to God’s will and purpose.…perfect in every detail.

The wording in Genesis is also something most people read right over….”there was evening and morning”. How much time elapses between even and morning? That is between sunset and sunrise? Is that 24 hours?

What God is indicating there is that the sun set at the end of one day (Jews counted a day from sunset to sunset) so the beginning of the next “day“ (creative period) started at daybreak…..the “dawn of a new day” in our vernacular.

These are not 24 hour days and the Jewish language allows for an extended period for each creative “day”.

If the seventh day was like the rest, where is the declaration that it is concluded with God stating his approval of what he had accomplished? The 7th day has not ended, and when it does, it will conclude with its appropriate declaration as to God’s satisfaction.
Hebrews 4:9 says the Sabbath remains for us Christians to keep. The word "rest" is "Sabbatismos" which refers to the weekly Sabbath, not the "spiritual rest" of "Kataposis" which is found in the rest of the chapter.
 

Phoneman777

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As at best he only has a claim to be a bishop elected by a city as nowhere does Scripture state that the authority the Pope claims was passed on to him. Well, the authority of the Pope is not from scripture, but can be shown to be from another origin and authority. The College of Cardinals, with the Pope given authority at its head, is just the counterpart of the Pagan College of Pontiffs, with its "Pontifex Maximus," or "Sovereign Pontiff," which had existed in Rome from the earliest times, and which is known to have been framed on the model of the grand original Council of Pontiffs at Babylon.

The College of Pontiffs (Collegium Pontificum) came from the religion of the original Council of Pontiffs at Babylon, was then established in ancient Rome and the Pontifex Maximus (Latin, literally: "greatest pontiff") again established as the high priest of the pagan religion. This was the most important position in the ancient Roman religion as it had been in Babylon.

One of the things history show about the ascendancy of the papacy is that the church of Rome promotes the pope as the "Pontifex Maximus" or, Supreme Pontiff. The title Pontifex Maximus is mentioned numerous times by the early church fathers (particularly by Tertullian), but it was not applied to a Christian bishop. The early church fathers say that the Pontifex Maximus was the "King of Heathendom", the high priest of the pagan mystery religion of Rome. The Pontifex Maximus was an imperial office, usually held by the Emperor himself, which made one the "chief priest" of the Roman "state cult."

In 63 B.C., Julius Caesar had himself elected Supreme Pontiff and became emperor of Rome and vested the office of Roman emperor with the priestly powers and functions of the Babylonian Pontiff (Babylon Mystery Religion, p. 80). Augustus kept the tradition of the combined offices, and the title Pontifex Maximus was used by the Roman Caesars as illustrated on a Roman coin depicting the image of Augustus Caesar (27 B.C.-14 A.D.) with his title "Pont. Max.," which is an abbreviation of Pontifex Maximus. It is well known that Domitian required himself to be addressed as dominus et deus [';Lord and God']. (Hemer, The Letters to the Seven Churches of Asia in Their Local Setting, 85-86.) The Roman title "Pontifex Maximus" was rendered in Greek inscriptions and literature of the time as "#7936;#961;#967;#953;#949;#961;#949;#973;#962;". literally, "high priest or by a more literal translation and order of words as "#7936;#961;#967;#953;#949;#961;#949;#8058;#962; #956;#941;#947;#953;#963;#964;#959;#962;", literally, "greatest high priest".

Thus, the Roman emperors, like the preceding Babylonian emperors, now served as priests of Babylonian paganism, and bore the title Pontifex Maximus. One of the prominent features we find in Revelation is a prophetic picture of the revival of ancient Babylonian system of worship, and here we see a form which came into the center of the Empire. When Rome conquered the world, the sun worship of Mirthism and the Mystery Religions of ancient Babylon that had spread and developed in various nations, was merged into the religious system of Rome. The Roman emperors (including Constantine) continued to hold the office of Pontifex Maximus during this time. Constantine through he claimed to have been a Christian remained the pagan high priest the Supreme Pontiff, paid homage to the sun god on the official coinage and sought the support of the pagan masses and aristocracy of Rome. This signified a real claim to control the church as well as the state, and Constantine chaired the critical Church Council of Nicaea in 325. It was not until the Empire split in two, with the Western Empire going to Emperor Gratian in 360 AD, that he was persuaded to give up the position of the pagan high priest and return it to the bishop of Rome who was given the title Pontifex Maximus. Thus the title Pontifex Maximus can be traced in an unbroken line all the way to Babylon and its system of worship.
I think it's pretty asinine for people to claim to derive their authority over the very thing they claim grants them their authority...of course, most catholics don't care about Jesus at all, just Mary, the popes, and the priesthood, which is horribly misplaced trust, for apparitions of "Mary" is Satanic deception, popes are terribly inconsistent and contradictory, and priests...well, what more needs to be said about priests?
 

Phoneman777

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And, as I posted in a few other threads - Abraham is also called the "Rock" (Isa. 51:1-2 - just as Peter is in Matt. 16:18.
Peter was a small stone - not the "rock" of his confession. Paul was God's NT champion who had to get in Peter's face and correct his weak-kneed religion. Good thing Jesus didn't establish His church on a gelatinous coward who denied Jesus 3 times, but on the sure foundation of Peter's words. To his credit, he changed his ways, but not without the guidance and direction of my main man Paul.
 
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Peterlag

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So, as long as a wife has faith that her husband loves him, she can cheat on him left, right, and center, right?

BTW, what do you call a man who lets his wife sleep with other dudes in front of him? A "cuck".

My Jesus is no "cuck", my friend.

You either prove your love for Him by obeying the Ten Commandments or prove you don't love Him by disobeying them...just like what happens between a husband and a wife, right?
I don't read about the ten commandments in the Epistles written to Christians. I do however, read this...

Romans 3:20-21
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
 

Brakelite

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Isn’t a harlot a prostitute.

Where’s the connection with the pope?

Sorry I’m a bit slow in some areas,xx
Hi. The best way I can answer this is by giving an example from an event in the NT
John the Baptist, according to Jesus, had the spirit and the power of Elijah. John was as bold and as straight in his testimony against a Herod, as was Elijah in his rebuke of Ahab and Jezebel. In both cases there was a literal illicit marriage, but for different reasons. Ahab had married an outsider... The daughter of a pagan King. This was forbidden according everything God had been teaching Israel for obvious reasons, mainly the introduction of pagan false gods into the Jewish culture, which as we all know, is what took place. This union therefore between the state (King Ahab) and a false religion (Jezebel) was a form spiritual adultery against God... An act of unfaithfulness to truth and idolatry. This resulted in a divorce between God and Israel, and a broken covenant.
In Herod's case, He was married to his brothers wife. Literal adultery. However, there was a spiritual side as well, for in scripture, women are often used as a metaphor, especially in prophecy, and represent the church. Whether in Jezabels case a false pagan system, or on Israel's case a once faithful church but fallen away from the relationship between herself and God. Playing the harlot is an all too common complaint against Israel from God's prophets. Herod's "wife" involved herself in spiritual matters when she demanded John's execution. This was another illicit union between the state and the church.
During the dark ages the visual church feel away from truth and her relationship with the true God, and joined with the state in governing conscience, persecuting people for their beliefs, and killing them as a direct result of inquisitions and crusades against entire cultures and communities. Thus the church became a harlot. Not the entire Christian church, but certainly that section that was under the authority and subjection to Rome, which encompassed most of Europe. (There were Christian communities and kingdoms outside of Roman jurisdiction that outnumbered Rome and remained generally faithful to the teachings and the gospel once delivered to the apostles. )
In the last days according to the prophecies, there will be another union between a fallen church and the state. This is beginning to take serious shape right now. A union between the Protestant churches of America and the state. When this happens, that section of Protestantism will have fallen. This union with also persecute and kill dissenters. True Christians who remain faithful. These Protestant churches that join with the state are the harlot daughters of the Mother of Harlots, Babylon the Great, headquartered in Rome. This union between church and state will grow and quickly and eventually encompass the entire globe.
 
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Brakelite

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Thanks for posting @Brakelite ..I will study this more carefully.
In order to fully appreciate the connections between the theory of spiritual adultery and the Catholic church, you need to understand the history of the Roman church in its relationship first to the emperors, and secondly to the kings and queens and rulers of the nations throughout the dark ages.
KJV Revelation 17:1-6
1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

KJV Jeremiah 3:6-11
6 The LORD said also unto me in the days of Josiah the king, Hast thou seen that which backsliding Israel hath done? she is gone up upon every high mountain and under every green tree, and there hath played the harlot.
7 And I said after she had done all these things, Turn thou unto me. But she returned not. And her treacherous sister Judah saw it.
8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.
9 And it came to pass through the lightness of her whoredom, that she defiled the land, and committed adultery with stones and with stocks.
10 And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah hath not turned unto me with her whole heart, but feignedly, saith the LORD.
11 And the LORD said unto me, The backsliding Israel hath justified herself more than treacherous
Judah.

Below is a small excerpt from a much larger study on the books of Daniel and Revelation. This excerpt is in context with the little horn power that grew from the Roman head of the 4th beast...

"A brilliant military commander, Constantine also understood that there could be no political stability without religious unity. Yet to accomplish that feat would require a union between paganism and Christianity. How could it be accomplished? The Empire needed an ecumenical religion that would appeal to every citizen in a multi-cultural society. Giving Christianity official status was not enough to bring internal peace to the Empire: Christianity had to undergo a transformation so that pagans could ‘convert’ without giving up their old beliefs and rituals. Constantine himself exemplified this expediency. He adopted Christ as the new god that had given him victory in the crucial battle at Milvian Bridge in 312 A. D., and brought him into Rome as its conqueror. Yet, as Caesar, he continued to function as the Pontifex Maximus of the Empire’s pagan priesthood, known as the Pontifical College. . . As a ‘Christian’ Emperor, he automatically became the de facto civil head of the Christian church and seduced her with promises of power. Thus began the destruction of Christianity and the process that created Roman Catholicism as it is today.” (Dave Hunt, Global Peace, pp. 106-107)

“It was ‘Christianity’, in fact, which gave the Empire a unity and continuity that held it together culturally and religiously. When the Empire later disintegrated politically under the onslaught of the Barbarians, it was held together religiously by the all-pervasive presence of the Roman Catholic Church with its ingenious ecumenical blend of paganism and Christianity still headquartered in Rome.” (Dave Hunt, Global Peace, p. 110)

The great philosopher and historian, Will Durant, remarks: “When Christianity conquered Rome, the ecclesiastical structure of the pagan church, the title and vestments of the Pontifex Maximus, the worship of the Great Mother and a multitude of comforting divinities, the sense of super-sensible presences everywhere, the joy or solemnity of old festivals, and the pageantry of immemorial ceremony, passed like maternal blood into the new religion, and captive Rome captured her conqueror. While Christianity converted the world, the world converted Christianity. . .” (Will Durant, Civilization: Caesar and Christ, Volume 3, p. 657.

John Henry Cardinal Newman makes this admission: “We are told in various ways by Eusebius, that Constantine, in order to recommend the new religion to the heathen, transferred into it the outward ornaments to which they had been accustomed in their own. It is not necessary to go into a subject which the diligence of Protestant writers has made familiar to most of us. The use of temples, and these dedicated to particular saints, and ornamented on occasions with branches of trees, incense, lamps, and candles; votive offerings on recovery from illness, holy water; asylums; holy days and seasons, use of calendars, processions, blessings on the fields; sacerdotal vestments; the tonsure, the ring in marriage, turning East, images at a later date, perhaps the ecclesiastical chant, and the Kyrie Eleisen, are all of pagan origin, and sanctified by their adoption into the church.” (Henry Cardinal Newman, An Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine, p. 373)

Philip Schaff, one of the greatest church historians ever to wield a pen, wrote the following: “But the elevation of Christianity as the religion of the state presents also an opposite aspect to our contemplation. It involved great risk of degeneracy to the church. The Roman state, with its laws, institutions, and usages, was still deeply rooted in heathenism, and could not be transformed by a magical stroke. The christianizing of the state amounted therefore in great measure to a paganizing and secularizing of the church. The world overcame the church, as much as the church overcame the world, and the temporal gain of Christianity was in many respects cancelled by spiritual loss. The mass of the Roman Empire was baptized only with water, not with the Spirit of the gospel, and it smuggled heathen manners and practices into the sanctuary under a new name. The very combination of the cross with the military ensign by Constantine was the most doubtful omen, portending an unhappy mixture of the temporal and the spiritual powers.” (Philip Schaff, History of the Christian Church, vol. 3, p. 93, bold is mine) 3) The architecture at the Vatican is Roman. The architecture of the Vatican is virtually identical to the old city. Also, the old city of Rome was filled with statues of gods and heroes as is Vatican City. 4) The Papal church is called the Roman Catholic Church.
5) The official language of the Vatican is Latin, the language of ancient Rome.
6) In official documents, the Vatican employs Roman numerals. 7) The headquarters of the Papacy is Vatican City, which is located in the geographical location of ancient Rome. Says the Catholic Encyclopedia: “It [Vatican City] is within the city of Rome, called the city of seven hills, that the entire area of Vatican State proper is now confined”. (The Catholic Encyclopedia, Tomas Nelson Publishers, 1976. Article: ‘Rome’) 8)

Historians and theologians consistently emphasize that Papal Rome inherited and perpetuated the Roman Empire but in a different way: It was a religious-political system. Notice the following quotations from church historians and theologians:
“Within three centuries, the Roman Church had transformed the administrative organization of the Roman Empire into an ecclesiastical system of bishoprics, dioceses, monasteries, colonies, garrisons, schools, libraries, administrative centers, envoys, representatives, courts of justice, and a criminal system of intricate laws all under the direct control of the pope. His Roman Palace, the Lateran, became the new Senate. The new senators were the cardinals. The bishops who lived in Rome and the priests and deacons helped the pope to administer this new imperium.” (Malachi Martin, The Decline and Fall of the Roman Church, p. 105, )
 
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Ritajanice

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Thanks again @Brakelite ..in honesty I have never researched the Catholic Church...it’s history has never interested me...are you a Roman Catholic?

I ask because you seem very glued up on it.as in knowledge ,in case I was misunderstood by saying glued up.
 
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Brakelite

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Possibly needless to point out, but I will anyway for those less familiar with history, but the ecclesiastical system that developed in Rome during the 3rd and later centuries, bore little or no resemblance to the church that Christ established in Jerusalem, and those churches which sprung up as a result of evangelistic efforts by the apostles and their disciples and later generations throughout the then known world in later centuries. For the most part, the true gospel continued to be taught from Britain to China, and from Russia to India and Africa, and the churches that managed to survive persecutions on times doorstep such as the Waldensian churches and the Albigenses
Yes, there were talks between the various Popes and the rulers of various kingdoms over the next 1000 years or so, but they refused to surrender their independence, except when forced to do so as victims of war and genocide. Often, what protected these churches was the actual conversion of the leaders and/or wives, who then would guarantee religious freedom to all , for example Buddhists in China, and Hindu in India. Several of Genghis Kahn's children and grandchildren converted to Christianity and set up their realms under Christian principles. These were not church/ state unions, but rather kingdoms they ruled by true Christian converts. The church, alongside the Buddhists and atheists, were free. There was no compulsion to convert, as they understood the true gospel and the freedom of conscience that went with it. Unlike Rome.
 

Brakelite

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Thanks again @Brakelite ..in honesty I have never researched the Catholic Church...it’s history has never interested me...are you a Roman Catholic?

I ask because you seem very glued up on it.as in knowledge ,in case I was misunderstood by saying glued up.
I was raised Catholic, but when I was converted I felt the need to study the history of the church in order to appreciate better why the Lord took me away from that faith. This study wasn't like some intensive PhD over several years, but simply an interest and ongoing love of history and truth. It has been an eye opener, and eternally grateful for God's leading throughout. I may not have everything right. I wouldn't quote me as part of a doctorate thesis, but I do read extensively, and like those historians willing to cite their articles and give credit to other historians as the need arises. This means a consensus, which I believe is confirmation that they agree to a large extent the principle common factors which their subject matter is focused on.
I also clearly see the relationship between history and prophecy. I am not a futurist, thinking that nearly every prophecy is yet to be fulfilled. Nor am I a preterist, thinking that everything was already completed in the past. Prophetic history is a long story. It begins with the prophets, and continues through time until the second coming. Which isn't far away. And history and it's prophetic blueprint is the greatest testament to Christ's soon appearing.
 

Brakelite

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Thanks again @Brakelite ..in honesty I have never researched the Catholic Church...it’s history has never interested me...are you a Roman Catholic?

I ask because you seem very glued up on it.as in knowledge ,in case I was misunderstood by saying glued up.
Lol. There are certain Catholic members here who would disagree with your assessment. Vehemently so.
 

Ritajanice

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Lol. There are certain Catholic members here who would disagree with your assessment. Vehemently so.
What assessment.?

Of being interested in the Roman Catholic Church...why would I be?

I’m Born Again...I respect their belief, but, it’s not the same as what I believe the word of God to be saying..I’m led through God’s written word by his Spirit..I can’t understand the word without being Born Again @Brakelite ..I’m sure they would say the same out their belief..

I don’t understand their teachings..what’s the point of being disrespectful to another’s belief...

I have been disrespectful in the past...no point in arguing when ones belief is set in stone so to speak...or on the Living word of God..he’s the foundation on what we stand.imo/ belief.
 
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Brakelite

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@Ritajanice
I have previously noticed that you are in the UK. The history of the Celtic church of Britain is particularly fascinating, and very worthwhile a look at. But don't believe just any version. You would be aware I am sure of the ongoing very long battle between Protestantism and Catholicism in Great Britain, but that particular battle is a very new conflict, that is a mere continuation of a battle that began before Patrick, and has for the most part never stopped. While the true faith saw a battle for lost souls, other interests such as the Vatican saw Britain as a political war, and used the king's and queens of Britain and their armies as pawns and weapons against the true faith. Intermarriage between Catholic princesses and pagan Kings, and the political union of church and state that resulted, saw the demise of 1000s of Christians who refused to bow to papal sovereignty.
 
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Brakelite

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What assessment.?

Of being interested in the Roman Catholic Church...why would I be?

I’m Born Again...I respect their belief, but, it’s not the same as what I believe the word of God to be saying..I’m led through God’s written word by his Spirit..I can’t understand the word without being Born Again @Brakelite ..I’m sure they would say the same out their belief..

I don’t understand their teachings..what’s the point of being disrespectful to another’s belief...

I have been disrespectful in the past...no point in arguing when ones belief is set in stone so to speak...or on the Living word of God..he’s the foundation on what we stand.imo/ belief.
Not your assessment of the Catholic church, but your assessment of me in being a fount of understanding and knowledge...
I ask because you seem very glued up on it.as in knowledge
 

Ritajanice

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@Ritajanice
I have previously noticed that you are in the UK. The history of the Celtic church of Britain is particularly fascinating, and very worthwhile a look at. But don't believe just any version. You would be aware I am sure of the ongoing very long battle between Protestantism and Catholicism in great Britain, but that isocyanate battle is a very new conflict, that is a metre continuation of a battle that began before Patrick, and has for the most part never stopped. While the true faith saw a battle for lost souls, other interests such as the Vatican saw Britain as a political war, and used the king's and queens of Britain and their armies as pawns and weapons against the true faith. Intermarriage between Catholic princesses and pagan Kings, and the political union of church and state that resulted, saw the demise of 1000s of Christians who refused to bow to papal sovereignty.
Oh yes...what a time that has been throughout history.

Protestant vs Catholic....nothing is gained by bullies/ dictators or control freaks...xx
 
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Aunty Jane

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Hebrews 4:9 says the Sabbath remains for us Christians to keep. The word "rest" is "Sabbatismos" which refers to the weekly Sabbath, not the "spiritual rest" of "Kataposis" which is found in the rest of the chapter.
The difficulty in talking verses out of context is the propensity to give them a spin that really isn’t there.

What is Paul talking about here?
The opening verse of Hebrews 4 says….
“Therefore, since a promise of entering into his rest remains, let us be on guard for fear someone among you seems to fall short of it. . . . . 6 Therefore, since it remains for some to enter into it, and those to whom the good news was first declared did not enter in because of disobedience. . . . .
8 For if Joshua had led them into a place of rest, God would not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 So there remains a sabbath-rest for the people of God. 10 For the man who has entered into God’s rest has also rested from his own works, just as God did from his own.
11 Let us therefore do our utmost to enter into that rest, so that no one may fall into the same pattern of disobedience.”

What is God’s “rest”? And how can a person “enter into it”?
How did Israel fail to enter into it?
 

Marymog

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Perhaps read some of my posts in this thread…I have explained in great detail what the scriptures say about the Sabbath observance…..there is no command for Christians to observe a Sabbath…that was part of God’s law given only to Israel. There were a few different Sabbaths mentioned in the Law.

There is no command NOT to have a day of rest, which speaking physically and mentally, would surely be a beneficial thing. But Sabbath observance is not a “requirement”, which some here will argue this point.
Thanks Jane,

Genesis 2:2-3 is not a command for Jews OR Christians to observe a Sabbath. It is God setting the example for men. Kind of like when Jesus was baptized. Shouldn't we follow their examples? Or do you not feel that you are required to follow their examples?

Mary
 

Peterlag

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You're not going to support your accusations, are you? So be it.
1.) Lie number one. I believe the Scriptures are clear and even a child can understand the simple truth.
One can believe in the Trinity (as I do), yet still concede (as I do) that Scriptural "proofs" are ambiguous enough that no definitive conclusion can be drawn from them.

2.) Lie number two. There's no such thing as a pre-incarnate son.
Then there is the matter of separating the pre-incarnate Son from the incarnate Jesus,

3.) Lie number three. Jesus did not empty himself.
Jesus had “emptied himself” of whatever “equality” he may have had with the Father (Philippians 2:7). explain its own experience of the risen Christ in philosophical terms. And I think they got it right.
 
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