Where does the Pope get his authority?

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TheOneHeLoves

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I agree. There were no denominations is Scripture. They were all of One accord with One teaching and Jesus prayed that we may all be One.

Even though we may all be following Jesus, not all are teaching his teachings. That is how we ended up with denominations especially after the Protestant Revolution that divided Christianity so much that we had to start calling all the churches that broke away The Church denominations.

Your "read the entire bible" theory is the problem. Each man reads the bible and comes up with his own salvific doctrine. Scripture warns against that. Why do you teach opposite of Scripture?

Martin Luther complained about everyone reading the bible and coming up with their own interpretation of it AFTER he read the bible and came up with his own interpretation of it. Luther cracks me up....

When people are stuck on the theory they can read the bible on their own and come up with THE truth......they don't know God.

Scripture says "hold fast to your traditions". YOU say people that hold to tradition "don't know God". Why do you disagree with Scripture?

Curious Mary
Mary, first pray and let go of your worldly thinking. Ask The Holy Spirit to reveal TRUTH. The hold fast to the teachings we have taught you is a better translation. Jesus told the woman at the well (John 4) a time a coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain or Jerusalem... but in Spirit and truth.

I agree with Scripture.
Do you think like the Pharisees and believe that Jesus sinned against The Father because He healed on the Sabbath and preach and speak scripture but your actions do not match?

The Holy Spirit gives me revelation, conviction, correction, and confirmation. I don't rely on man but God.
 

BreadOfLife

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Hahahaha, BoL, you are a hard case. I want trying to true any of your arguments. Read my response carefully. It is asking for confirmation of what you are telling me. I am asking if I am right in my understanding of what you are saying. You are so bent toward aggressive and defensive arguments you are on auto pilot. Show down son.
Okay - I re-read your last post, and it makes a little more sense now:
Aaaaah, I see now what you getting at. Scripture doesn't identify who the Messiah is, the church does, and I imagine you would be using Matthew 16:16 to prove that, and therefore support the concept of 'authority'? Am I understanding you correctly?
Yes, that is what I’m saying.
However – Matt. 16 is not the only verse I submitted for Church Authority.
 
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Marymog

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The Holy Spirit gives me revelation, conviction, correction, and confirmation. I don't rely on man but God.
Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you. Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood.

as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.
 

RedFan

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I don’t believe he had a physical body after his resurrection, because a spirit body is still a body. He was resurrected in a new body…one that facilitated his return to heaven.
Then He intentionally tried to dupe His disciples into thinking otherwise, Luke 24:39. That's hard to swallow.
 

Brakelite

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Okay - I re-read your last post, and it makes a little more sense now:

Yes, that is what I’m saying.
However – Matt. 16 is not the only verse I submitted for Church Authority.
Thank you for that, I appreciate it. Can I then ask you for your opinion on my posts 755 and 756? I know you won't like them, but I would like a biblical reason why I should fully trust in the church... Being your church obviously... When there are examples of dogma or doctrine that is either extra biblical, or contradictory to Bible truth that have emanated from your teachers? I don't think I need to go to what I believe are fair examples, there have been many already mentioned in this thread.
 
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TheHC

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Miss Mary, I’m sorry but I don’t think we’ll have a productive discussion.

Three times you replied to my post….
Hmmmm....let me see if I have your theory correct.

Hebrews was written around 67AD. And since that time 'there have been many “witnesses” for Jehovah God". But the "true knowledge" has increased in the last 100 years or so; these final/Last Days. But by your deduction "there wasn’t much spiritual truth known prior to these Last Days."

Doesn't that mean the earliest "witnesses for Jehovah God" (those starting around 67AD) didn't have ALL the truth? Christians, specifically JW's, are now just learning ALL the truth?

Am I understanding you correctly TheHC?

And which group is that?

Christ, and the Apostles, taught much more than that on what one must do to be a genuine follower. Repent. Get baptized. Help the poor etc etc. Not sure why you are preaching only part of Scripture to make your point. Us Christians obey ALL of Scripture.

He also said, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.

Do you THC?
….but not once did you address the issue of Catholicism’s history of engaging in warfare.

(Though this problem is found in nearly all of Christendom.)

At John 14:15, our Savior said “If you love me, you will keep my commandments.” He reinforced the importance of obedience, when He restated “You are my friends if you do what I command.” Then He restates His command to His followers to “love one another.” —John 15:14-19

At the times in history when it’s been most important to show love, ie., during conflicts and uprisings, the leaders of Christendom have failed miserably as representatives of Christ, the Prince of Peace.

We as Christians are told, if our worship is to be “acceptable” to God, we are to “keep oneself without spot from the world.” (James 1:27) Joining the world in support of its wars…. I can’t even think of a worse spot, than being bloodstained.

(I’m not really talking about the individual members of Christendom; I’m specifically talking about their leaders, those as shepherds of the sheep, who should know better.)

I hope you’ll come to recognize that, someday, and face those issues head on. It’s not for nothing that Paul quoted Jehovah’s words, “Get out from among them, my people.”

All the best to you, my cousin.
 

TheHC

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Well, the problem is that almost everything is blatantly fabricated, even if they claim he has it, it was false or made out of 'whole cloth' as they say. We now have the Pope who makes up and pretends to have authority of believers and in the Church as the successor of Peter, to whom it is alleged that Christ exclusively committed the keys of the kingdom of heaven. But you have to understand that it was not so when the church began at Rome. Until the Pope was invested with the title, which for a thousand years had been attached to it the power of the keys of Janus and Cybele, no such claim to pre-eminence was ever publicly made on his part, on the ground of his being the possessor of the keys bestowed on Peter.

It was only in the second century that the worship of Cybele, under that name, was introduced into Rome; but the same goddess, under the name of Cardea, with the "power of the key," was worshipped in Rome, along with Janus, ages before in ancient times. For the first three centuries, the Roman Catholic claim for authority was founded simply on the 'dignity of their see', as being that of the imperial city, the capital of the Roman world. When, however, the seat of empire was removed to the East, and Constantinople threatened to eclipse Rome, some new ground for maintaining the dignity of the Bishop of Rome had to be found. So they fabricated it, when, about 378, the Pope 'somehow' fell heir to the keys that were the symbols of two well-known Pagan divinities at Rome. Janus bore a key, and Cybele bore a key; and these are the two keys that the Pope emblazons on his arms as the ensigns of his spiritual authority.

How the Pope came to be regarded as wielding the power of these keys took some time but that he did, in the popular view of church tradition, become entitled to that power at the period is certain. Now, when he had come, in the estimation of the Pagans, to occupy the place of the representatives of Janus and Cybele, and therefore to be entitled to bear their keys, the Pope saw that if he could only get it believed among the Christians that Peter alone had the power of the keys, and that he was Peter's successor, and this is what they di. Some time was allowed to pass away, and then for the first time, the Pope publicly assert his pre-eminence, as founded on the keys given to Peter. In 432, and not before, did he publicly lay claim to the possession of Peter's keys.

Now one interesting fact to note was that the Pontifex Maximus or Supreme Pontiff of the ancient pagan sun worship, bore the Chaldean title peter or 'interpreter'. the interpreter of the mysteries. So we see the opportunity to "Christianize" the office of Pontifex Maximus that the bishop of Rome now held, by associating the "Peter" or "Grand Interpreter of Rome", with Peter the apostle. Thus the stories about Peter being the first bishop of Rome, unknown and unheard of in the early church and earlier times, began to surface and 'claimed'.

Thus we may see how the keys of Janus and Cybele would come to be known as the keys of Peter, the "interpreter" of the pagan Mysteries, and we see the real origin of the authority of the Pope, and it wasn't from scripture.
Interesting!
Thanks
 

quietthinker

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Where does the Pope get his authority?​

Donald Trump? no? The last Trump? no? The second Trump? no? Maybe it's all Trumped up? ...in any case it appears he's going to do some Trumping of sorts?
 

Marymog

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Christ’s followers in the first century followed / obeyed Christ’s injunction to “love one another.” (John 13:34; John 15:12,17) In fact, Jesus said it would be the way to ID His genuine followers. — John 13:35.

Is this the reputation the Catholic faith has built? Unfortunately, almost since Catholicism’s inception, it has tried to gain friendship with the world (James 4:4; John 15:19) and its rulers, even encouraging its members to support local wars, pitting Catholics against Catholics, brothers slaughtering brothers.
Hey THC,

Since Catholics 'obey Christs injunction to love one another', we must be his genuine followers! So the answer to your question is YES, loving one another is the reputation the Catholic faith has built. The point I THINK you are trying to make is that some men in Church leadership encouraged members of the flock "to support local wars, pitting Catholics against Catholics, brothers slaughtering brothers."

Riddle me this THC: If Church leadership had NOT encouraged members of the flock to support local wars, pitting Catholics against Catholics with brothers slaughtering brothers, would you be a Catholic?

Curious Mary
 

Marymog

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Miss Mary, I’m sorry but I don’t think we’ll have a productive discussion.

Three times you replied to my post….


….but not once did you address the issue of Catholicism’s history of engaging in warfare.

(Though this problem is found in nearly all of Christendom.)

At John 14:15, our Savior said “If you love me, you will keep my commandments.” He reinforced the importance of obedience, when He restated “You are my friends if you do what I command.” Then He restates His command to His followers to “love one another.” —John 15:14-19

At the times in history when it’s been most important to show love, ie., during conflicts and uprisings, the leaders of Christendom have failed miserably as representatives of Christ, the Prince of Peace.

We as Christians are told, if our worship is to be “acceptable” to God, we are to “keep oneself without spot from the world.” (James 1:27) Joining the world in support of its wars…. I can’t even think of a worse spot, than being bloodstained.

(I’m not really talking about the individual members of Christendom; I’m specifically talking about their leaders, those as shepherds of the sheep, who should know better.)

I hope you’ll come to recognize that, someday, and face those issues head on. It’s not for nothing that Paul quoted Jehovah’s words, “Get out from among them, my people.”

All the best to you, my cousin.
LOL....what do you mean you hope that I will come to recognize and face those issues head on??? If you took about 20 seconds you could have done a search of all my posts on this website and see that I have discussed the issues of The Church already.

OK THC....I will ONCE AGAIN address "the issue of Catholicism's history of engaging in warfare." I agree with you that the problem is found in nearly all of Christendom! But you clearly only want to talk about the 'Catholic problem' from hundreds of years ago so let's do it.

Historically we know that The Church supported the Crusades and encouraged Christian men to join the Crusades to stop the Muslims from stealing (goods and land) from Christians, raping Christians, killing Christians, forcing Christians to convert or die, torturing Christians OR pay a tax for being a Christian in a Muslim country. THANK GOD it was the Catholic Church was the leader of Christianity in the world at the time to defeat this evil. :woohoo!:

If the Christian world at the time of the Crusades (1095 thru 1291AD) was led by Jehovah Witness men, the entire world today would be under Islam rule because JW's don't believe in warfare.


Keeping it real....Mary
 
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Brakelite

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Hey THC,

Since Catholics 'obey Christs injunction to love one another', we must be his genuine followers! So the answer to your question is YES, loving one another is the reputation the Catholic faith has built. The point I THINK you are trying to make is that some men in Church leadership encouraged members of the flock "to support local wars, pitting Catholics against Catholics, brothers slaughtering brothers."

Riddle me this THC: If Church leadership had NOT encouraged members of the flock to support local wars, pitting Catholics against Catholics with brothers slaughtering brothers, would you be a Catholic?

Curious Mary
Pitting Catholics against Catholics? If this was all that Rome was guilty of, inciting a few wars between themselves, I'm fairly certain such minor infractions on the global scale of things wouldn't have reached the history books and memories of so many diverse cultures across the planet, unless of course those cultures were making stuff up.
However, if the true history of Catholicism was even half as bad as the history books and oral legends and memories of those cultures have told us, then there is every reason to think such history would be sufficient evidence to think that such a reputation does in any context support the idea that Catholics have love for one another, let alone anyone else.
 

Brakelite

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LOL....what do you mean you hope that I will come to recognize and face those issues head on??? If you took about 20 seconds you could have done a search of all my posts on this website and see that I have discussed the issues of The Church already.

OK THC....I will ONCE AGAIN address "the issue of Catholicism's history of engaging in warfare." I agree with you that the problem is found in nearly all of Christendom! But you clearly only want to talk about the 'Catholic problem' from hundreds of years ago so let's do it.

Historically we know that The Church supported the Crusades and encouraged Christian men to join the Crusades to stop the Muslims from stealing (goods and land) from Christians, raping Christians, killing Christians, forcing Christians to convert or die, torturing Christians OR pay a tax for being a Christian in a Muslim country. THANK GOD it was the Catholic Church was the leader of Christianity in the world at the time to defeat this evil. :woohoo!:

If the Christian world at the time of the Crusades (1095 thru 1291AD) was led by Jehovah Witness men, the entire world today would be under Islam rule because JW's don't believe in warfare.


Keeping it real....Mary
The crusades weren't only taken out against Muslims though huh.
 
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Marymog

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Us Christians?
Yes, Us Christians.

For you see Adrift to be a Christian you have to adhere to ALL of Scripture. NOT the cherry-picked passages from Scripture that make your tummy feel good and fits what YOU believe. Christians are to adhere to ALL of Scripture. If you don't, you aren't Christian! Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

When Scripture says obey those that rule over you and YOU SAY no man rules over me......you are not adhering to Scripture.

When you site only one passage from Scripture
that says we are saved by grace through faith in Christ Jesus and not by our own efforts or works and you leave out James 2 that says faith without works is dead and the multiple other passages that way what we must do to be saved.........you are not adhering to Scripture.

Mary
 
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Adrift

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Yes, Us Christians.

For you see Adrift to be a Christian you have to adhere to ALL of Scripture. NOT the cherry-picked passages from Scripture that make your tummy feel good and fits what YOU believe. Christians are to adhere to ALL of Scripture. If you don't, you aren't Christian! Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

When Scripture says obey those that rule over you and YOU SAY no man rules over me......you are not adhering to Scripture.

When you site only one passage from Scripture
that says we are saved by grace through faith in Christ Jesus and not by our own efforts or works and you leave out James 2 that says faith without works is dead and the multiple other passages that way what we must do to be saved.........you are not adhering to Scripture.

Mary
So sayeth the cherry picker supreme.
 

TheOneHeLoves

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Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you. Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood.

as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.
You submit to the devil. You submit to someone whose teachings do not align with THE WORD of GOD. God is the same yesterday, today and forever. Your authority changes with the times and leadership.

One day you will face judgement and you will know. Before then I pray that your eyes will be open so that you may repent.
 
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Marymog

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Pitting Catholics against Catholics? If this was all that Rome was guilty of, inciting a few wars between themselves, I'm fairly certain such minor infractions on the global scale of things wouldn't have reached the history books and memories of so many diverse cultures across the planet, unless of course those cultures were making stuff up.
However, if the true history of Catholicism was even half as bad as the history books and oral legends and memories of those cultures have told us, then there is every reason to think such history would be sufficient evidence to think that such a reputation does in any context support the idea that Catholics have love for one another, let alone anyone else.
Based on your (illogical) theory one can deduce that since your Protestant forefathers killed other Protestants AND Catholics, I guess YOU have no love for one another, let alone anyone else. ;)

Also, it appears you don't even know your own Protestant history. Actually, you don't care. ;)You only care to attack The Church and turn a blind eye to your forefathers aggressions and pacts with the devil.

The early Protestants and Islam established a sense of mutual tolerance and understanding, despite theological differences, considering each other to be closer to one another than to Catholicism.

The Ottoman Empire supported the early Protestant churches and contributed to their survival in dire times.

Luther regarded the Ottomans as allies against the papacy, considering them the "rod of God's wrath against Europe's sins."

The allegiances of the Ottoman Empire and threat of Ottoman expansion in Eastern Europe pressured King Charles 5th to sign the Peace of Nuremberg with the Protestant princes, accept the Peace of Passau, and the Peace of Augsburg, formally recognizing Protestantism in Germany and ending military threats to their existence.

Your saint, Martin Luther, views of Islam were mild when compared to his aggressive speech against Catholicism (and later Judaism).

But hey......Brakelite is only here to point out Catholic abuses and ignore his own Protestant history.

Carry on brakelite.....Lets hear more attacks kiddo. :watching and waiting: