Where does the Pope get his authority?

[RedFan]

So you are placing you entire eternal destiny in the hands of men no better than yourself, and in some cases, worse. I will trust Jesus

I think you meant "I will trust my understanding of what Jesus said and did."

 

[BreadOfLife]

I am happy to let Titus address this if he wishes, but here is my $0.02: Nobody is denying (not even Titus) that Jesus spoke Aramaic, as well as Hebrew and very likely Greek. Rather, Titus is arguing that the conversation with Peter in Matt. 16:17-18 was actually undertaken in Greek rather than Aramaic. (I think that's improbable in the extreme -- but I digress.)

That Mathew's gospel was composed in Greek, we both agree on. That it was "preserved" in Greek (Titus's word) by copyists, we all agree on. How either one of these facts can possibly impact any conclusion on the language of the Jesus-Peter conversation is beyond me, so I'll let Titus tell us his reasoning.

As I told Titus – it doesn’t matter if Matthew was written in Chinese.
Jesus and His Apostles spoke Aramaic to one another.

The “Trilingual” nation that @Titus keeps trying to push is also irrelevant. The largely uneducated masses that Jesus preached to weren’t multilingual. Many of the Apostles themselves – Peter included, were fisherman – not scholars.

Greek was the lingua franca – the way that people of different countries communicated. Jews in Israel spoke to each other in their native tongue. Not ONLY have I presented several Aramaic words that Jesus spoke (Mat 5:3, Mark 7:34, Matt. 27:46) – there is something else.

On Pentecost in Acts 2, we see Jews from many different countries marveling at the fact that the Apostles are speaking in their native tongue, yet they are able to understand them.

 

[Jude Thaddeus]

And I stand by that. For 2000 years, Satan has inspired your church to compel others, through force, persecution, torture, war, and crusades, to accept her teachings. Such was never God's doing. And Protestant churches, Islamic, and any other faith doing the same is n oko better. You are attempting to defend the indefensible.

Demonizing the historic Church with misrepresentations, lies, and twisting history is SDA doctrine. We don't deny some stupid Catholics did some bad things, but your exaggerations, void of context, are absurd. Islam is no better? You are attempting to defend the indefensible.

The historic Church, including Protestants, made up of sinners, is Christ on earth. How else, if not for the grace of God, can the Church, that you despise, feed, clothe, shelter, educate and provide free medical care to more people that any institution on the planet? Through force? We force starving people to eat food??

It is you that has been forced to ignore the good the Church does in the world, it is you that has been forced to look only at the worst of Catholics, and ignore the many saints who actually live the faith, in every century, some accompanied by signs and wonders. It is you that is forced to obsess over centuries old dirt that means nothing in todays world.

Brakelite is forced, through psychological manipulation, to ignore those, by example, live closest to the Church's spirit.

Saints A to Z: A - Saints & Angels - Catholic Online

Browse all catholic saints starting with the letter A

www.catholic.org

​

 

[Jude Thaddeus]

On Pentecost in Acts 2, we see Jews from many different countries marveling at the fact that the Apostles are speaking in their native tongue, yet they are able to understand them.

​

 

[Prycejosh1987]

I assume from the roman government and tradition passed down that Christianity in catholic faith needed a leader. I personally believe Jesus Himself is the only true leader we need.

 

[Brakelite]

I think you meant "I will trust my understanding of what Jesus said and did."

Haha. Almost. I will trust the love and promises of God that He will their truth give the holy Spirit to those who ask, and the holy Spirit will teach them.
That doesn't mean as Mary would contend, that "everyone has 'their' truth, but disagree with everyone else, because they all claim they have the holy Spirit. Her church is no different. It also claims to have the holy Spirit. It also claims to be trusting in the promises. They even claim to be basing their doctrines on scripture. Just like everyone else.
According to Jesus, how are we to recognise who is God's true prophet?

 

[Brakelite]

Demonizing the historic Church with misrepresentations, lies, and twisting history

some stupid Catholics

Don't go that route, there's way too much evidence against you. This entire thread is about trust. Do we trust a church to teach the truth, with a history of murder, war, blood letting, persecution, and grand larceny? A few stupid Catholics? Like the many thousands who believed the papal promises of eternal life and forgiveness of sin if they murdered other Christians through several crusades?
The following scriptures are prophetic concerning the Catholic church. It isn't me who is "picking on the church" and demonizing the church through manipulation and lies. The scriptures themselves testify prophetically as to the character and policy of Rome, and compulsion, law, and force being the principle means by which time increased its power and influence. If the several inquisitions made against innocent people wasn't evidence enough.
That she has covered herself with a cloak of charity means nothing. Those acts of charity do not make up for the damage done to God's cause, by all the evil done in Christ's name.


KJV Daniel 7:20-21
20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.
21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

KJV Revelation 12:17
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

KJV Revelation 13:7
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

KJV Revelation 17:6
6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

 

[Marymog]

What I said...QUOTE FROM YOU: The scriptures decide what is truth. Not your men. Or my men. Or any man.
Does not say people don't know the truth. Like I said in a subsequent post, the holy Spirit guides us into truth, (Jesus said that), our work is to accept it, believe it, and act on it.

Bible lesson time Brakelite! Jesus did NOT say that the Holy Spirit will guide EVERY Christian into Truth.

Problem 1 with YOUR INTERPRETATION of that passage: Every Protestant Reformer, including your men who in the 1800's reformed the teachings of the reformers, would be preaching the truth if your theory was correct. But as you know every reformer taught a different "truth" which means every reformer had a different "truth" taught to them by the Holy Spirit.

Problem 2 with your theory: When someone tells you or me that they were guided by the Holy Spirit into the "truth" on a interpretation of passage XYZ, you and I couldn't disagree with them even if their "truth" was different than our truth.

Problem 3 with your theory: Scripture says that the church is the pillar and foundation of truth. Not you. Not me. The Church!

Problem 4 with your theory: Scripture says that The Church decides which man is right and which one is wrong when your brother sins against you. And if you don't agree with the decision of The Church you are kicked out of The Church.

Now how did braklite get this soooooooooo wrong? Either he listened to the wrong men, the men of the SDA OR braklite doesn't know how to read Scripture which leads me too DRUM ROLL PLEASE...........PROBLEM 5 with your theory:

IN CONTEXT, Jesus is talking to his Apostles AND ONLY HIS APOSTLES about his impending departure from them. He was letting THEM know he wouldn't be there anymore to guide them to the Truth of things. That is why he said, And I will pray the Father, and He will give YOU another Helper, that He may abide with YOU forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, But these things I have told YOU, that when the time comes, YOU may remember that I told YOU of them. when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide YOU into all truth;

ONCE AGAIN, notice how I gave Scripture, logic and CONTEXT to destroy what your men have taught you. But none the less....thanks for your OPINION on Scripture.

 

[Jude Thaddeus]

Haha. Almost. I will trust the love and promises of God that He will their truth give the holy Spirit to those who ask, and the holy Spirit will teach them.

Sorry, the Holy Spirit doesn't sanction your dogmatized Catholic bashing. The Bible says the Church is indestructible, it can never fall away, contrary to your fear mongering myths. It doesn't mean there are no sinners in the Church.

That doesn't mean as Mary would contend, that "everyone has 'their' truth, but disagree with everyone else, because they all claim they have the holy Spirit. Her church is no different.

But it is different. The spoken word of God has the same divine protection as the written word of God. They BOTH come from the same divine well-spring. In fact, the written word of God is preceded by the spoken word of God, and later written. Hollywood shows Matthew acting as a stenographer, writing as Jesus spoke, when it was written around 50 A.D.
By whom and how was the written word of God preserved for 20 years, and not canonized until the 4th century?

It also claims to have the holy Spirit. It also claims to be trusting in the promises. They even claim to be basing their doctrines on scripture. Just like everyone else.

"Everyone else" may have some elements of one, holy, catholic and apostolic, but not everyone else has these divine attributes in its fulness. These 4 marks of God are listed in the Nicene Creed, that you reject in the first place.
Catholics are instructed to accept all baptized non-Catholic Christians as brothers and sisters in the Lord, you condemn all Protestants as daughters of the whore, but appeal the the reformers anti-Catholic rhetoric when it is convenient.

According to Jesus, how are we to recognise who is God's true prophet?

To sum it up, here are ways you can test a prophet to see if they are really speaking for God:

1. Their prophecies should honor God, not themselves or any other human being.
2. Prophecies should always be in line with what has already been written as Scripture.
3. Prophecies should never add anything to Scripture, but only refer back to it for the purpose of reminding or expounding upon it.
4. If they do make predictions, they must come to pass as spoken (Jeremiah 28:9; Deuteronomy 18:22).
5. Prophecies often point out the sins of the people and tell them how to change
6. What they prophesy must never contradict that Jesus is the Son of God and the Savior of the earth (1 John 4:1-3).
7. A person’s “fruits” are what they repeatedly do. When working for God, prophets should generally demonstrate a Christ-like character.

The prophecies at Fatima of 1917 meet all these requirements, and proven retrospectively to be 100% accurate: the threat of atheistic communism and 2 world wars. The Miracle of the Sun, witnessed by 70,000 people, was one of the greatest miracles in the history of mankind. Furthermore, I contend that Divini Redemptoris, on atheistic communism,
an encyclical written in 1937, is very prophetic, as it can be applied to the war in Ukraine. How the prophecies of The Great Controversy meet 3 and 4 is a matter of opinion not based on retrospective fact.

History doesn't absolutely repeat itself, but it rhymes. 1938 rhymes with 2024, as we stand on the brink of WW3, just as WW2 stood on the brink in 1938. Such horrors can be averted with sincere repentance, but who listens???

​

 

[Jude Thaddeus]

I’d like to reflect on a prophecy Ralph gave in 1975 at the International Catholic Charismatic Renewal Conference at the Basilica at St. Peter’s in Rome. He gave it at the closing Mass, after Communion, after a time of worship and quiet: (it meets the requirements listed in the above post)

“Because I love you, I want to show you what I am doing in the world today. I want to prepare you for what is to come. Days of darkness are coming on the world, days of tribulation. . . . Buildings that are now standing will not be standing. Supports that are there for my people now will not be there. I want you to be prepared, my people, to know only Me and to cleave to Me and to have Me in a way deeper than ever before. I will lead you into the desert. . . . I will strip you of everything that you are depending on now, so you depend just on Me. A time of darkness is coming on the world, but a time of glory is coming for my Church, a time of glory is coming for my people. I will pour out on you all the gifts of my Spirit. I will prepare you for spiritual combat; I will prepare you for a time of evangelism that the world has never seen. . . . And when you have nothing but Me, you will have everything: land, fields, homes, and brothers and sisters and love and joy and peace more than ever before. Be ready, my people, I want to prepare you.”​

I wasn’t at this particular meeting, but over the years, I have spoken to a number of people who were there, and collectively, a lot of leaders from around the world really experienced the confirmation of the Holy Spirit in the moment.

Buildings that are now standing will not be standing.

9.11 Ukraine: cities reduced to rubble​

 

[Jude Thaddeus]

The Third Secret of Fatima Revealed

I like the cartoon version.

 

[Jude Thaddeus]

I assume from the roman government and tradition passed down that Christianity in catholic faith needed a leader. I personally believe Jesus Himself is the only true leader we need.

We never "needed a leader", leadership was given, not taken, and leadership was given to Peter by Jesus Himself. The "Catholic Pagan Roman Empire Church" run or influenced by pagan emperors is a myth invented by hostile Bible cults. If I am wrong, show me any official church teaching that has been ratified by any emperor, pagan or Christian.
Church government is modelled after the Davidic Kingdom, not pagan Roman governments.

 

[Cassandra]

I’d like to reflect on a prophecy Ralph gave in 1975 at the International Catholic Charismatic Renewal Conference at the Basilica at St. Peter’s in Rome. He gave it at the closing Mass, after Communion, after a time of worship and quiet: (it meets the requirements listed in the above post)

“Because I love you, I want to show you what I am doing in the world today. I want to prepare you for what is to come. Days of darkness are coming on the world, days of tribulation. . . . Buildings that are now standing will not be standing. Supports that are there for my people now will not be there. I want you to be prepared, my people, to know only Me and to cleave to Me and to have Me in a way deeper than ever before. I will lead you into the desert. . . . I will strip you of everything that you are depending on now, so you depend just on Me. A time of darkness is coming on the world, but a time of glory is coming for my Church, a time of glory is coming for my people. I will pour out on you all the gifts of my Spirit. I will prepare you for spiritual combat; I will prepare you for a time of evangelism that the world has never seen. . . . And when you have nothing but Me, you will have everything: land, fields, homes, and brothers and sisters and love and joy and peace more than ever before. Be ready, my people, I want to prepare you.”​

I wasn’t at this particular meeting, but over the years, I have spoken to a number of people who were there, and collectively, a lot of leaders from around the world really experienced the confirmation of the Holy Spirit in the moment.

Buildings that are now standing will not be standing.
View attachment 45555 View attachment 45563View attachment 45564

9.11 Ukraine: cities reduced to rubble​

You would know this by reading the Bible. It is not prophetic to a man, but Jesus spoke of these very things. Wars, rumors of wars, preparing his church,etc

 

[Cassandra]

View attachment 45512​

the Ark f the covenant had the Ten Commandments, plate of manna, and Aaron's rod that budded. Can you tell me how Mary is supposed to contain Aaron's rod, and why the commandment was changed concerning idols when Mary is supposed to be the embodiment of the Ark in which the Ten Commandments were placed?

 

[Jude Thaddeus]

You would know this by reading the Bible. It is not prophetic to a man, but Jesus spoke of these very things. Wars, rumors of wars, preparing his church,etc

Are you saying the prophecy as posted above is meaningless? The accurate prophecies of Fatima from God through His earthly daughter are from Him, or Satan? The stakes are high. Get off the fence, and take your stand.

 

[Jude Thaddeus]

the Ark f the covenant had the Ten Commandments, plate of manna, and Aaron's rod that budded. Can you tell me how Mary is supposed to contain Aaron's rod, and why the commandment was changed concerning idols when Mary is supposed to be the embodiment of the Ark in which the Ten Commandments were placed?

I wouldn't use the word "embodiment." Mary doesn't contain foreshadows in her womb, but divine human flesh.
The 10 Commandments, the word of God written in stone , foreshadows Jesus, the Word of God (Logos) in Flesh
The plate of manna foreshadows the Bread of Life.
Arron's rod foreshadows Jesus as High Priest.

The Bible never says Jesus became God after He was born. You know what Emmanuel means.
And the Bible never condemns Scripture in art form.

​

The Ark of the Old Covenant was the holiest item in all of Israel for its contents.
The Ark of the New Covenant is ...who? You are a smart person, I'm sure you can figure it out, using Scripture Alone.

Church Fathers on Mary as Ark of the New Covenant ::

 

[Brakelite]

Bible lesson time Brakelite! Jesus did NOT say that the Holy Spirit will guide EVERY Christian into Truth.

Problem 1 with YOUR INTERPRETATION of that passage: Every Protestant Reformer, including your men who in the 1800's reformed the teachings of the reformers, would be preaching the truth if your theory was correct. But as you know every reformer taught a different "truth" which means every reformer had a different "truth" taught to them by the Holy Spirit.

Problem 2 with your theory: When someone tells you or me that they were guided by the Holy Spirit into the "truth" on a interpretation of passage XYZ, you and I couldn't disagree with them even if their "truth" was different than our truth.

Problem 3 with your theory: Scripture says that the church is the pillar and foundation of truth. Not you. Not me. The Church!

Problem 4 with your theory: Scripture says that The Church decides which man is right and which one is wrong when your brother sins against you. And if you don't agree with the decision of The Church you are kicked out of The Church.

Now how did braklite get this soooooooooo wrong? Either he listened to the wrong men, the men of the SDA OR braklite doesn't know how to read Scripture which leads me too DRUM ROLL PLEASE...........PROBLEM 5 with your theory:

IN CONTEXT, Jesus is talking to his Apostles AND ONLY HIS APOSTLES about his impending departure from them. He was letting THEM know he wouldn't be there anymore to guide them to the Truth of things. That is why he said, And I will pray the Father, and He will give YOU another Helper, that He may abide with YOU forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, But these things I have told YOU, that when the time comes, YOU may remember that I told YOU of them. when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide YOU into all truth;

ONCE AGAIN, notice how I gave Scripture, logic and CONTEXT to destroy what your men have taught you. But none the less....thanks for your OPINION on Scripture.

So individual Christians can no longer receive the holy Spirit? And the holy Spirit can no longer teach those Christians truth? Jesus said, "without Me ye can do nothing." So how can we even become Christian, let alone live as Christians, without Him in the form of His Spirit?
Jesus spoke to individuals. He was establishing a global church made up of individuals, each having their own individual relationship with Him through His Spirit. You cannot, and I challenge you to try, deny the right of individuals today from having their own individual relationship with Jesus through the inserting holy Spirit... Which is, according to Paul, Christ in you, the hope of glory..

 

[Brakelite]

Sorry, the Holy Spirit doesn't sanction your dogmatized Catholic bashing.

If you can copy and paste or quote one example where I bashed a Catholic personally, I would be interested.

The Bible says the Church is indestructible,

Yes, the church will be translated at the second coming. But every individual? Every congregation even? I have faith that within the Catholic communion there are many who I will see in heaven. And there will be many missing from my own denomination. Those that finally make it, will be the church. We aren't saved in the end because of what denomination or faith paradigm we subscribe to. We will all be saved because we have faithfully fostered a relationship with Jesus, repented of all our sins, and obeyed Him in all that He had commanded us. I would be deeply suspect of any organisation that teaches such things are either not recommended, or worse, impossible.

It doesn't mean there are no sinners in the Church.

And they are not indestructible.

By whom and how was the written word of God preserved for 20 years, and not canonized until the 4th century

By many, and dispersed throughout the world by many, long before the Bible as a collective book was organised.

one, holy, catholic and apostolic,

That does not apply solely to one single institution in Rome, particularly when that institution has sought to overthrow those who endeavoured to keep his commandments in preference to those of the bishop of Rome. And before you ask... The Sabbath.

How the prophecies of The Great Controversy meet 3 and 4 is a matter of opinion not based on retrospective fact.

Yet Jesus said, "I have told you before, that when it comes to pass, then you will believe that I am He".

 

[Jude Thaddeus]

If you can copy and paste or quote one example where I bashed a Catholic personally, I would be interested.

That's not what I said. The SDA bashes Catholicism as a matter of policy. Do we do that to you???

Seventh-day Adventism

Most people know little about the Seventh-day Adventists beyond that they worship on Saturdays, not Sundays. But there’s more to this unique sect.

www.catholic.com

Copy and paste anything in this article that misrepresents SDA doctrine.

Yes, the church will be translated at the second coming.

I didn't say anything about the Second Coming either.

But every individual? Every congregation even? I have faith that within the Catholic communion there are many who I will see in heaven. And there will be many missing from my own denomination. Those that finally make it, will be the church.

You have your own definition of "church". It excludes the earthly Church that's united with the heavenly Church. It's one, holy, catholic and apostolic that you are forced to deny because you reject the Nicene Creed of 325 A.D. and it's entire council. The Pope ratified it, he didn't write it.

We aren't saved in the end because of what denomination or faith paradigm we subscribe to. We will all be saved because we have faithfully fostered a relationship with Jesus, repented of all our sins, and obeyed Him in all that He had commanded us. I would be deeply suspect of any organisation that teaches such things are either not recommended, or worse, impossible.

Agreed. However, He command us to eat his flesh and drink His blood. You are forced to play innovated word games with John 6 and avoid this command.

And they are not indestructible.

Again, I never said that about individuals. What Jesus builds is indestructible. Man doesn't build the Church, Peter doesn't build the Church, Jesus builds the Church. He is with us until the end of the age. Nukes can't destroy it, corrupt leaders can't destroy it. Jesus is not a liar. Even Paul never said the Church would be overcome with evil the way you do.

By many, and dispersed throughout the world by many, long before the Bible as a collective book was organised.

That's true, and history shows that the dispersed were Catholic, the martyrs were buried in the catacombs, and physical archeological evidence shows the Christians of the first 3 centuries were distinctively Catholic. That's why you are forced to reject the ante-Nicene Fathers, and are unable to identify any of the martyrs by name, aside from those found in the Bible.

That does not apply solely to one single institution in Rome, particularly when that institution has sought to overthrow those who endeavoured to keep his commandments in preference to those of the bishop of Rome. And before you ask... The Sabbath.

Derailer and blatant historical revisionism. You can't even admit St. Ignatius, the 4th bishop of Antioch, was a Christian.
You misread the Bible much the same as you misread Marymog's posts. Meaningful dialogue with you is impossible.
I'll put you on ignore, but not @Cassandra, she has the decency to ask questions. You just make false accusations. Goodbye.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Don't go that route, there's way too much evidence against you. This entire thread is about trust. Do we trust a church to teach the truth, with a history of murder, war, blood letting, persecution, and grand larceny? A few stupid Catholics? Like the many thousands who believed the papal promises of eternal life and forgiveness of sin if they murdered other Christians through several crusades?
The following scriptures are prophetic concerning the Catholic church. It isn't me who is "picking on the church" and demonizing the church through manipulation and lies. The scriptures themselves testify prophetically as to the character and policy of Rome, and compulsion, law, and force being the principle means by which time increased its power and influence. If the several inquisitions made against innocent people wasn't evidence enough.
That she has covered herself with a cloak of charity means nothing. Those acts of charity do not make up for the damage done to God's cause, by all the evil done in Christ's name.


KJV Daniel 7:20-21
20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.
21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

KJV Revelation 12:17
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

KJV Revelation 13:7
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

KJV Revelation 17:6
6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

This is typical of your hypocrisy.

You judge the Church by the sins and errors of SOME of its leaders instead of the doctrines of the Church. Yes, relatively-speaking, it WAS only a ”few stupid Catholics”. Do you judge Jesus and the leaders HE chose by the worst one (Judas)??

I could just as easily judge YOUR SDA sect by the sins of those who molest children in your ranks. I don’t do that because I realize that sin exists everywhere, as we were warned in Scripture (Matt. 7:15-20, Matt. 13:24-43, Acts 20-29).

No – I judge your sect by its bad doctrines, such as “Soul Sleep” (Luke 9:28-36, Rev. 6:9-10, Rev. 20-41), debunked by Scripture - and the idea that the Sabbath is the “Seal of God” when Scripture clearly teaches that the Holy Spirit is God’s seal (Eph. 1:13-14, Eph. 4:30).

Of your argument is against the sinful actions of human beings – you’ll be going in circles for the rest of your life . . .