The Everlasting Father, in Isaiah 9: 6. Means the "Eternal originator", See Jn 1: 3. and Col 1: 16--17. And thats what Everlasting Father means. Nowhere doe the Bible say Jesus is the Father.
where in the letters did they literally write Jesus is the Father?
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David Lamb
Well-Known Member
Not "the Father" as in God the Father. But the word used in Isaiah 9:6 is the normal word for "father", so there must be a sense in which Jesus is a Father. I would say it is in the way He called His disciples "Children":
NKJV Mrk 10:24 And the disciples were astonished at His words. But Jesus answered again and said to them, "Children, how hard it is for those who trust in riches to enter the kingdom of God!
Jhn 13:33 Little children, I shall be with you a little while longer. You will seek Me; and as I said to the Jews, 'Where I am going, you cannot come,' so now I say to you.
Jhn 21:5 Then Jesus said to them, "Children, have you any food?" They answered Him, "No."
Taken
Well-Known Member
What the Scripture Reveals…
God Established the Father /Son relationship FOR (humans), AND For Himself, by His Decree, For Stiffnecked Stubborn humans That could NOT Believe Without “Sight” to See…thus He prepared a body, AND called That Body Jesus and Son, Sent TO Earth, to expressly, Allow humans ON Earth TO “SEE” Him.
One Lord God Almighty IS He.
~Spirit Creator AND Maker of All things.
~Without Beginning
~Without Ending
* Numerous Titles
* Numerous Descriptions
* Several Names
* Specific Works
** Omnipotent (All-Powerful)
** Omniscient (All-Knowing)
** Omnipresent (Everywhere)
Be He, Above the Heavens…
Be He, In the Heavens…
Be He, On the Earth…
Be He, In the Earth…
Be He, Invisible…
Be He, Visible in a Prepared Body…
He WAS, IS, FOREVER, One Living Lord God Almighty.
Glory to God,
Taken
Taken
Well-Known Member
AND
If and when a human Learns About a “Trinity”…of A man…
BODY, (its life)
SOUL, (it’s life)
SPIRIT…(it’s life
Of One individual man…
The Trinity of One individual God…
Becomes Reasonable to Trust, Only One God IS He, Creator and Maker of All things.
Glory to God,
Taken
Taken
Well-Known Member
You confuse “distinct persons”, with “distinct ROLES”.
Numerous “Individual men” Have “multiple Distinct Roles”…multiple Titles and Names…
Yet are the Same One Individual.
The One Same God… has multiple Titles, Names, ROLES.
Glory to God,
Taken
Taken
Well-Known Member
When… Gods WORD was prepared A BODY, for to be Sent to Earth and SEEN by men…
God Dictated, He IN Heaven “would Be” a Father to Him, sent to Earth.
When Gods WORD was IN Gods Mouth, and Returned To Gods Mouth…
What, Who exactly came forth from Gods Mouth?
Something OTHER than God?
God clearly Revealed HE purposed IN Himself, A manifestation He Chose.
Isa 55:
[11] So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
Heb 1:
[5] For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
Heb 10:
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
Eph 1:
[9] Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
Glory to God,
Taken
God Dictated, He IN Heaven “would Be” a Father to Him, sent to Earth.
When Gods WORD was IN Gods Mouth, and Returned To Gods Mouth…
What, Who exactly came forth from Gods Mouth?
Something OTHER than God?
God clearly Revealed HE purposed IN Himself, A manifestation He Chose.
Isa 55:
[11] So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
Heb 1:
[5] For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
Heb 10:
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
Eph 1:
[9] Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
Glory to God,
Taken
Taken
Well-Known Member
Taken
Well-Known Member
Is a "he" a person?
Matthew 1:21
And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
(....."HE" shall save...)
( a person)
John 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
(....HE shall teach...)
( a person)
Taken
Well-Known Member
Your answer excluded Females.
A person IS AN “Alive” Being…
That Has the Shape/ Form /“Body” of man/ KIND / “human”…
And a Living soul “Within” that Body.
Humans /Male / Female, that ARE Alive…
Are “Persons”.
Bodily Dead Humans, are no longer Persons.
They No longer HAVE a soul “in” their Body.
(at mortal/Physical Death, the SOUL departs the Body)
Gen 35:
[18] And it came to pass, as her soul was in-departing, (for she died) that she called his name Ben-oni: but his father called him Benjamin.
Jesus was sent to Earth, In a Body, God “Prepared” in the Likeness of Gods “PERSON”…
A Prepared Formed BODY, AS A man… head, face, two arms, hands, legs, feet, Walk Upright…
And With Blood, In the Likeness as Humans.
Heb 1:
[3] Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Heb 10:
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but-a body hast thou prepared me:
Phil 2:
[8] And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Glory to God,
Taken
Yes, and there is this.....
He is the Word which proceeded out from the Father, and was sent to do His Father's will.
Isaiah 55:11
“So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.”
John 1:1-5
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
John 14:6-11
6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 7If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. 8Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? 10Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
If we see Him, we see the Father! He showed us the Father.
stevesonthebay
Active Member
I am not sure anyone is making (Christ not saying or being God the Father) is a church controversy in the first place. Who would be concerned about this unless questioning Christs position itself.
I guess it stems from the long held disputes about the Trinity.
But it has always been known and destinguished that there are three entities in the Trinity. God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. They are all mentioned as seperate aspects of the Trinity in the same verse mentioned above.
Christ prays to His Father and His father says He is pleased with His Son. All through the bible we have this representstaion of father and son.
I think it is more that Christ and God the Father are the same divinity with the holy spirit. As mentioned Christ goes directly to the father and all that is in the Father is in Christ.
Its a hard concept to understand. Whether the destinctions of father and Son are necessary for the divine aspect of the God head. But they are there and mean something. I think more a relational aspect.
There is a certain relational apect that seems different from God the Father being like a loving father as in the prodigal son and the father of the family and nation and other verses that empahsise fatherhood.
As opposed to the Son who obeys the Father in submission. These relational aspects have real representation in our lives and with the church. Along with marriage between man and women.
Christ was called "Emmanuel" meaning 'God is with us'. Matthew 1:23 “Behold, a virgin shall be with child and shall bring forth a Son, and they shall call His name Emmanuel” (which being interpreted is, “God with us”).
So I guess this is how God chose to come to earth, to our temporal world as a son, fullfilling the long line of sons and fathers to the Messiah. Part of that is to do with John 3:16 in the Father giving His only begotton Son to save us. This is the realtional aspect that enters our world.
It seems the "word' or logos that John mentions is what was there in the beginning. That word was with God and was God. Which speaks more about a truth that exist rather than a role or an entity that occupies a hierarchy.
John 1: 1-2 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.
John seems to be saying that Christ was there in the beginning with God and is the same as God. How can a son be from the beginning with his father. That word that is the same as God became flesh. Christ speaks like He is the same as God but as the Son of God doing His fathers will in showing what pleases God the father.
So its beyond what we can understand as to what this exactly represents. The important thing is that Christ goes directly to the Father and knows what He knows. That it is a relational aspect that represents the God head and this is reflected in individuals and the churches relationship to the God head. All aspects play an important part of who God is.
I guess it stems from the long held disputes about the Trinity.
But it has always been known and destinguished that there are three entities in the Trinity. God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. They are all mentioned as seperate aspects of the Trinity in the same verse mentioned above.
Christ prays to His Father and His father says He is pleased with His Son. All through the bible we have this representstaion of father and son.
I think it is more that Christ and God the Father are the same divinity with the holy spirit. As mentioned Christ goes directly to the father and all that is in the Father is in Christ.
Its a hard concept to understand. Whether the destinctions of father and Son are necessary for the divine aspect of the God head. But they are there and mean something. I think more a relational aspect.
There is a certain relational apect that seems different from God the Father being like a loving father as in the prodigal son and the father of the family and nation and other verses that empahsise fatherhood.
As opposed to the Son who obeys the Father in submission. These relational aspects have real representation in our lives and with the church. Along with marriage between man and women.
Christ was called "Emmanuel" meaning 'God is with us'. Matthew 1:23 “Behold, a virgin shall be with child and shall bring forth a Son, and they shall call His name Emmanuel” (which being interpreted is, “God with us”).
So I guess this is how God chose to come to earth, to our temporal world as a son, fullfilling the long line of sons and fathers to the Messiah. Part of that is to do with John 3:16 in the Father giving His only begotton Son to save us. This is the realtional aspect that enters our world.
It seems the "word' or logos that John mentions is what was there in the beginning. That word was with God and was God. Which speaks more about a truth that exist rather than a role or an entity that occupies a hierarchy.
John 1: 1-2 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.
John seems to be saying that Christ was there in the beginning with God and is the same as God. How can a son be from the beginning with his father. That word that is the same as God became flesh. Christ speaks like He is the same as God but as the Son of God doing His fathers will in showing what pleases God the father.
So its beyond what we can understand as to what this exactly represents. The important thing is that Christ goes directly to the Father and knows what He knows. That it is a relational aspect that represents the God head and this is reflected in individuals and the churches relationship to the God head. All aspects play an important part of who God is.
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No. There are three eternally distinct, coequal "persons" within the one God; three "whos," one what. That is the only logical conclusion based on the entire revelation of God as given in the Bible.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Be cautious of “Logical Conclusions” when Discussing “Spiritual Things.”
Logic is the Conclusion of the “Carnal Mind”.
There is nothing “Logical” about a natural man to Believe in A God,
That a man can Not, See, Hear, Touch, Feel, Smell… and WHY…
Romans 8:
6: to be carnally minded isdeath; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7: Because the carnal mind isenmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
God bless you.
Glory to God.
Taken
No. That’s an unbiblical understanding of the mind and logic, often used to avoid the conclusions of sound logic. God created us in his image and that includes logic and reasoning. Jesus, who is the Logos who became flesh, tells us to love God with, among other things, all our mind.
The Bible uses logic from beginning to end. It is one of the primary ways God uses to communicate truth to us and how he expects us to interpret and understand what he has communicated to is.
There are only a fleshly, worldly use of logic and a Godly, biblical use of it, just as there is sound reasoning and poor reasoning. What we can never say is that ‘Logic is the Conclusion of the “Carnal Mind”.’ If that were true, then all of us are thoroughly carnal, and so is God.
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