Where The Body Is The Vultures Will Gather

[VictoryinJesus]

This relates to Christians leaving the matter of vengeance to God against wrongs which they have suffered.

Yes because He handles vengeance differently than we (while walking in the flesh) handle it. Why not just command us by the power and strength of God to right all the wrongs by violence and war? A vigilante kills for what he says is a right cause. Why not tell us to do that instead of telling us to forgive or otherwise we will not be forgiven?

 

[Enoch111]

Ok. When and how do you decide when it is ‘metaphorical’ and when it is not, as in blood to the horse bridle?

Christ's absolute holiness is such that no mortal man ON EARTH can even approach the light in which God and Christ dwell (1 Tim 6:16). Let alone the blood of evildoers and enemies of Christ contaminating Him and His robe at His second coming. So that simply cannot be taken literally in the light of everything we know about the Godhead.

When Christ comes to earth, He will destroy His enemies supernaturally, but their blood will literally flow like a river on the earth. The Word of God (the words of Christ spoken in judgment against His enemies) are depicted as a metaphorical sword going out of His mouth.

And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God... And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God... And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.(Rev 19:13,15; 14:19,20) [1600 furlongs = 200 miles]

The "vine of the earth" and "the winepress" are also metaphors. The first refers to all the enemies of Christ, and the second refers to the battle of Armageddon, and the wrath of God manifested there.

 

[farouk]

Yes because He handles vengeance differently than we (while walking in the flesh) handle it. Why not just command us by the power and strength of God to right all the wrongs by violence and war? A vigilante kills for what he says is a right cause. Why not tell us to do that instead of telling us to forgive or otherwise we will not be forgiven?

The Lord's wrath is also reserved, while He fulfills His purposes according to the Word...

 

[VictoryinJesus]

And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God...

Psalm 2:7-9
[7] I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. [8] Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. [9] Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

Isaiah 10:5
[5] O Assyrian, the rod of mine anger, and the staff in their hand is mine indignation.

Daniel 2:40-44
[40] And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things : and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise. [41] And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay. [42] And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken. [43] And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay. [44] And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

1 Corinthians 4:20-21
[20] For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power. [21] What will ye? shall I come unto you with a rod, or in love, and in the spirit of meekness?

Matthew 11:29
[29] Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

I don’t know what else to say. At the end of the day you will continue to see it one way and me another. I’m not saying you are wrong. Maybe I am the one confused. All I can do is keep reading and keep asking Him to help.

 

[farouk]

@VictoryinJesus : Psalm 2 is very searching, isn't it?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

John the Baptist came in the spirit and power of Elijah. In other, he was a replica of Elijah. However the actual Elijah will indeed come to earth and preach to Israel before the Day of the LORD. See Revelation 11. And the Lord Jesus will come to earth AFTER the Day of the LORD.

“However the actual Elijah will indeed come to earth to preach to Israel before the Day of the LORD.” Matthew 11:12-15 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force. [13] For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. [14] And if ye will receive it , this is Elias, which was for to come. [15] He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Numerous times the Lord told them Elijah had already come. John the Baptist. 2 Kings 2:9 And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me.

Jesus as Elisha receives a “double portion” of the Holy Spirit: A double portion of that of John the Baptist’s. (Luke 1:15)(Luke 1:41). As Elisha received a double portion of Elijah's: Jesus received doubled John the Baptist’s portion.

1 Kings 19:19
[19] So he departed thence, and found Elisha the son of Shaphat, who was plowing with twelve yoke of oxen before him, and he with the twelfth: and Elijah passed by him, and cast his mantle upon him.

As John the Baptist lifted off his mantle (yoke)and placed it on Jesus.

1 Kings 19:20-21
[20] And he left the oxen, and ran after Elijah, and said, Let me, I pray thee, kiss my father and my mother, and then I will follow thee. And he said unto him, Go back again: for what have I done to thee? [21] And he returned back from him, and took a yoke of oxen, and slew them, and boiled their flesh with the instruments of the oxen, and gave unto the people, and they did eat. Then he arose, and went after Elijah, and ministered unto him.

2 Kings 6:21-23
[21] And the king of Israel said unto Elisha, when he saw them, My father, shall I smite them ? shall I smite them ? [22] And he answered, Thou shalt not smite them : wouldest thou smite those whom thou hast taken captive with thy sword and with thy bow? set bread and water before them, that they may eat and drink, and go to their master. [23] And he prepared great provision for them: and when they had eaten and drunk, he sent them away, and they went to their master. So the bands of Syria came no more into the land of Israel.

Romans 12:20-21
[20] Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. [21] Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

Luke 9:54-56
[54] And when his disciples James and John saw this , they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias (Elijah) did? [55] But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. [56] For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them .

 

[farouk]

“However the actual Elijah will indeed come to earth to preach to Israel before the Day of the LORD.” Matthew 11:12-15 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force. [13] For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. [14] And if ye will receive it , this is Elias, which was for to come. [15] He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Numerous times the Lord told them Elijah had already come. John the Baptist. 2 Kings 2:9 And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me.

Jesus as Elisha receives a “double portion” of the Holy Spirit: A double portion of that of John the Baptist’s. (Luke 1:15)(Luke 1:41). As Elisha received a double portion of Elijah's: Jesus received doubled John the Baptist’s portion.

1 Kings 19:19
[19] So he departed thence, and found Elisha the son of Shaphat, who was plowing with twelve yoke of oxen before him, and he with the twelfth: and Elijah passed by him, and cast his mantle upon him.

As John the Baptist lifted off his mantle (yoke)and placed it on Jesus.

1 Kings 19:20-21
[20] And he left the oxen, and ran after Elijah, and said, Let me, I pray thee, kiss my father and my mother, and then I will follow thee. And he said unto him, Go back again: for what have I done to thee? [21] And he returned back from him, and took a yoke of oxen, and slew them, and boiled their flesh with the instruments of the oxen, and gave unto the people, and they did eat. Then he arose, and went after Elijah, and ministered unto him.

2 Kings 6:21-23
[21] And the king of Israel said unto Elisha, when he saw them, My father, shall I smite them ? shall I smite them ? [22] And he answered, Thou shalt not smite them : wouldest thou smite those whom thou hast taken captive with thy sword and with thy bow? set bread and water before them, that they may eat and drink, and go to their master. [23] And he prepared great provision for them: and when they had eaten and drunk, he sent them away, and they went to their master. So the bands of Syria came no more into the land of Israel.

Romans 12:20-21
[20] Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. [21] Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

Luke 9:54-56
[54] And when his disciples James and John saw this , they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias (Elijah) did? [55] But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. [56] For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them .

For Jewish hearers and readers, the Elijah references would have been particularly significant. It reminds me of the 'witnessed by the law and by the prophets' reference in Romans 3.