Where The Body Is The Vultures Will Gather

[Vexatious]

you do have a point up there, even if it could have been phrased better i guess.
Your last remark seems to contradict your first one though, now i'm not sure if you believe it would be natch to ask where or not?

Jesus said someone would be taken, the disciples answered "Where?". It's just another shameless lie of pretribbers to attempt to separate "where" from "taken."

No one did, and no one would, ask where false Christs would appear because "where" doesn't determine if someone claiming to be Christ is true or false.

Pretribbers are nothing more than liars.

 

[bbyrd009]

Jesus said someone would be taken, the disciples answered "Where?". It's just another shameless lie of pretribbers to attempt to separate "where" from "taken."

No one did, and no one would, ask where false Christs would appear because "where" doesn't determine if someone claiming to be Christ is true or false.

Pretribbers are nothing more than liars.

oh, i get you now, ya.

fwiw i would perceive them as maybe deceived rather than liars though, ppl in the process of changing their minds?
i mean wadr if you are ever expecting to hear "oh ty Vex, you have made me see the light,"
well, it just doesn't usually work that way i guess

17The first to state his case seems right until another comes forward and examines him.

 

[Enoch111]

Pretribbers are nothing more than liars.

The primary liar is the one making such false accusations. Your post has been reported.

 

[charity]

I do understand what you are trying to say. It appears to be a very strict interpretation of Revelations 21:2 as applying specifically to Jews (and only to Jews). I still can't say as I'm convinced, though. 2 Corinthians 11:2, cited by Enoch above, for one kinda throws a wrench in it for me. You appear to be dismissing the implications of that verse based on your argument rather than working it into your interpretations somehow.

But it's interesting, and though-provoking anyway.

Blessings in Christ
Chris

1) 'Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly:
and indeed bear with me.
2) For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy:
for I have espoused you to one husband,
that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
3) But I fear, lest by any means,
as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty,
so your minds should be corrupted
from the simplicity that is in Christ.'
(2 Corinthians 11:1-3)

Hello @Hidden In Him,

I am not seeking to avoid this verse, for I felt that I had dealt with it in an earlier entry, but obviously not to the satisfaction of @Enoch111, or yourself: so I will try to do better now; though I fear you will not accept it, for it is not the traditional viewpoint.

* Verse 2 is an allegory ('a comparison by implication': - ref. 'Figures of Speech in Scripture' by Dr E.W. Bullinger).

* This Corinthian epistle was written before the knowledge of 'The Church which is the Body of Christ' was given by revelation to Paul, at the end of the Acts period, so is not the subject of it.

* The believers to whom Paul wrote therefore were the believing remnant of Israel: with believing Gentiles who had been grafted in to the Olive Tree of Israel; this company had the possibility, through personal faithfulness, to become part of 'The Bride of the Lamb', and have the honour of inhabiting 'The New Jerusalem' which will come down out of heaven to the New earth. It was this 'faithfulness' which Paul sought to promote in them, and prevent them from becoming corrupted by the false teachers who were preaching, 'another Jesus'.

* This is my understanding of it, @Hidden In Him. I will let the Word of God be the arbiter on this; as I am sure you and @Enoch111 will too.

May His Name be Praised!

Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
Our risen Lord and Head.
Chris

 

[Hidden In Him]

I fear you will not accept it, for it is not the traditional viewpoint.

Sister, don't worry about that with me. There are a number of things I believe that are also not traditional viewpoints, so it's not as if I am so dogmatic as to be closed-minded. I'm just examining this with you.

* This Corinthian epistle was written before the knowledge of 'The Church which is the Body of Christ' was given by revelation to Paul, at the end of the Acts period, so is not the subject of it.

But now, see this statement here seems to contradict 1 Corinthians 12:12-27, which talks about believers being different members of the same body. Did you account for this passage?

Again, don't think I'm giving you a hard time here. I'm just discussing it with you.

 

[charity]

Sister, don't worry about that with me. There are a number of things I believe that are also not traditional viewpoints, so it's not as if I am so dogmatic as to be closed-minded. I'm just examining this with you.


But now, see this statement here seems to contradict 1 Corinthians 12:12-27, which talks about believers being different members of the same body. Did you account for this passage?

Again, don't think I'm giving you a hard time here. I'm just discussing it with you.

'That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs,
and of the same body,
and partakers of His promise in Christ
by the gospel: whereof I was made a minister,
according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me
by the effectual working of His power.
Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given,
that I should preach among the Gentiles
the unsearchable riches of Christ;
And to make all men see
what is the fellowship of the mystery,
which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God,
Who created all things by Jesus Christ: ... ... '

Hi @Hidden In Him,

I don't think you are giving me a hard time. I thought it possible that you may raise this passage of Scripture for consideration.

It is now 12.30 pm. so I will come back to this in the morning (God Willing), but will leave you with one thought: if it says in Ephesians that the truth of the mystery which concerns the Church which is His Body, was hid in God until it's revelation to Paul (Eph. 3:9), while in prison at Rome: from which those later epistles were written; anything which appears to relate to that Body, in these earlier epistles must be viewed in the light of that statement.

With my thanks,
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[charity]

Sister, don't worry about that with me. There are a number of things I believe that are also not traditional viewpoints, so it's not as if I am so dogmatic as to be closed-minded. I'm just examining this with you.

But now, see this statement here seems to contradict 1 Corinthians 12:12-27, which talks about believers being different members of the same body. Did you account for this passage?

Again, don't think I'm giving you a hard time here. I'm just discussing it with you.

Hello @Hidden In Him,

The Greek word, 'soma', is generally used of the human body: however, the word, 'Body', is used in Corinthians, Ephesians and Colossians of a believing company or church. In 1 Corinthians, it is found in chapters 10-12: this company is made 'one' by baptism (see 1 Corinthians 12:13):-

'For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body,
.. whether we be Jews or Gentiles,
.. whether we be bond or free;
and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.​

... and referring to the same company, within the same dispensation, Paul referred to that same baptism in Galatians 3:27-29:-

'For as many of you
.. as have been baptized into Christ
.... have put on Christ.
...... There is neither Jew nor Greek,
........ there is neither bond nor free,
.......... there is neither male nor female:
............ for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
And if ye be Christ's,
.. then are ye Abraham's seed,
.... and heirs according to the promise.'​

* The one body of 1 Corinthians 12 is a realisation of the promise made to Abraham, and must not be confused with that which had not, at that time, been revealed (namely the church of the one body of Ephesian which was at that time still 'hid in God').

* As this section of 1 Corinthians begins at chapter 10, it is worth considering a verse from that chapter before continuing, 1 Corinthian 10:1-4:-

'Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant,
.. how that all our fathers were under the cloud,
.... and all passed through the sea;
And were all baptized unto Moses
.. in the cloud and in the sea;
.... And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
...... And did all drink the same spiritual drink:
........ for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them:
.......... and that Rock was Christ.'

Praise His Holy Name!

* The emphasis here is on the words, 'the same': and Paul is concerned that they should not be ignorant of the facts expressed here. The emphasis is also on 'eating' and 'drinking', (see also 1 Corinthians 10:18; 1 Corinthians 10:21; 1 Corinthians 11:24-26).

'Behold Israel after the flesh:
are not they which eat of the sacrifices
partakers of the altar?'
(1 Corinthians 10:18)

'Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils:
ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.'
(1 Corinthians 10:21)

'And when He had given thanks,
.. He brake it, and said,
.... Take, eat: this is My body, which is broken for you:
...... this do in remembrance of He.
After the same manner also He took the cup,
.. when He had supped, saying,
.... "This cup is the new testament in My blood:
...... this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of Me.
........ For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup,
.......... ye do shew the Lord's death till He come."'
(1 Corinthians 11:24-26)

* These passages must be included when considering 1 Corinthians 12:13 (quoted above).

* The basis of the argument of Paul in 1 Corinthians 10-12 is the baptism of all Israel into Moses, and their consequent share in the meat and drink that followed: he expands and applies this in 1 Corinthians 12, with the opening words of the chapter,

'Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren,
I would not have you ignorant.'
(1 Cor. 12:1)

* He goes on to develop the typical significance of the 'spiritual' meat and drink which all Israel enjoyed: and consequently calls upon all to consider that although there is diversity of gift, and differences in administration, or in operation; these all come from the same Spirit, the same Lord and the same God.

Praise His Holy Name!

* Therefore, the 'body' of 1 Corinthians cannot be separated from the typical history of Israel, nor from the possession and use of spiritual gifts.

* Taking this into consideration: that the figure of a body in 1 Corinthians 10-12 is related to the type of Israel's baptism into Moses; the possession and exercise of spiritual gifts; and related to the promise made to Abraham; it must be recognised that it has no comparison to the Church of the One Body of Ephesians, whose very existence was a mystery, unknown at that time, a Church, within which, spiritual gifts are unknown, and whose members were chosen before the foundation of the world.

* The Body which pertains to the present dispensation of grace, is described in Ephesians as a 'joint body', with Christ as it's 'Head'. The illustration of the human body to describe the dispersion and operation of spiritual gifts in 1 Corinthians 12, is described in terms of it's many parts, including eyes and ears, which are parts of the head; some are spoken of also as being more honourable than others, which can never be said of the Body of Christ made known in Ephesians, which is 'accepted in the Beloved'; equal and united in Christ as a joint body.

My thanks to you, @Hidden In Him.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Ref. made to 'An Alphabetical Analysis vol.1' by Charles Welch; and 'The Early and Pastoral Epistles of Paul' by Stuart Allen.
http://www.bibleunderstanding.com/Early and Pastoral Epistles of Paul, The.pdf
http://www.bibleunderstanding.com/Alphabetical Analysis A to E.PDF
www.bibleunderstanding.com

 

[VictoryinJesus]

"Who is this who comes from Edom, with garments dyed from Bozrah? He who is glorious in His apparel, traveling in the greatness of His strength?"
"I who speak in righteousness, Mighty to save."
"Why are You red in Your apparel, and Your garments like he who treads in the wine vat?"
"I have trodden the winepress alone… I will tread them in My anger, and trample them in My fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon My garments, and I will stain all My raiment. For the Day of vengeance is in My heart, and the year of My redeemed has come." (Isaiah 63:1–4)

“He who is glorious in His apparel,” covered in blood. Why does the Lord want His glorious apparel stained in the blood of His enemies?

Jeremiah 50:15-16
[15] Shout against her round about: she hath given her hand: her foundations are fallen, her walls are thrown down: for it is the vengeance of the Lord : take vengeance upon her; as she hath done, do unto her. [16] Cut off the sower from Babylon, and him that handleth the sickle in the time of harvest: for fear of the oppressing sword they shall turn every one to his people, and they shall flee every one to his own land.


Revelation 14:19-20
[19] And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. [20] And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

Romans 12:19-21
[19] Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. [20] Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. [21] Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

What did the crucifixion (His death) not repay? 1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

Blood to the bridle, is Life to the bridle.
Luke 9:54-56 And when his disciples James and John saw this , they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? [55] But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. [56] For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them.

Are you expecting the return of Elias or the Lord? Because Elias has already come. Matthew 11:14-15 And if ye will receive it , this is Elias, which was for to come. [15] He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Again vengeance is mine, I will repay.
What sinner did the Lord not include in He died for all men especially those that believe.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Revelation 14:19-20
[19] And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. [20] And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

Give me your interpretation of every word here, and we will take it from there.

Angel = what?
Thrust his sickle into the earth = what?
Vine of the earth = what?
Great winepress = what?
How will it be trodden down?
It will be trodden down without what city?
How will blood come out of the winepress?

 

[Hidden In Him]

Are you expecting the return of Elias or the Lord? Because Elias has already come. Matthew 11:14-15 And if ye will receive it , this is Elias, which was for to come. [15] He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

While you're at it, Victory, tell me where you place the following passage in time. Is it future prophecy, or has it already been fulfilled:

14 The great day of the LORD is near— near and coming quickly. The cry on the day of the LORD is bitter; the Mighty Warrior shouts his battle cry. 15 That day will be a day of wrath— a day of distress and anguish, a day of trouble and ruin, a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and blackness— 16 a day of trumpet and battle cry against the fortified cities and against the corner towers. 17 “I will bring such distress on all people that they will grope about like those who are blind, because they have sinned against the LORD. Their blood will be poured out like dust and their entrails like dung. 18 Neither their silver nor their gold will be able to save them on the day of the LORD’s wrath.” In the fire of his jealousy the whole earth will be consumed, for he will make a sudden end of all who live on the earth. (Zephaniah 1:14-18)

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Give me your interpretation of every word here, and we will take it from there.

Angel = what?
Thrust his sickle into the earth = what?
Vine of the earth = what?
Great winepress = what?
How will it be trodden down?
It will be trodden down without what city?
How will blood come out of the winepress?

First tell me when the sower from Babylon is cut off. When is he that handles the sickle in the time of the harvest cut off? Jeremiah 50:15-16 Shout against her round about: she hath given her hand: her foundations are fallen, her walls are thrown down: for it is the vengeance of the Lord : take vengeance upon her; as she hath done, do unto her. [16] Cut off the sower from Babylon, and him that handleth the sickle in the time of harvest: for fear of the oppressing sword they shall turn every one to his people, and they shall flee every one to his own land.

 

[Hidden In Him]

First tell me when the sower from Babylon is cut off. When is he that handles the sickle in the time of the harvest cut off? Jeremiah 50:15-16 Shout against her round about: she hath given her hand: her foundations are fallen, her walls are thrown down: for it is the vengeance of the Lord : take vengeance upon her; as she hath done, do unto her. [16] Cut off the sower from Babylon, and him that handleth the sickle in the time of harvest: for fear of the oppressing sword they shall turn every one to his people, and they shall flee every one to his own land.

LoL. Let's make a deal. I'll answer this one after you give me your answer to Post #110. Then we can cover Revelation 14:19-20 together.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

LoL. Let's make a deal. I'll answer this one after you give me your answer to Post #110. Then we can cover Revelation 14:19-20 together.

I could go line by line but you would still reject anything I would contribute and consider it nonsense. It would turn into a debate when the real question is who is God? No disrespect but it appears you are waiting for the same Lord the Pharisees waited upon, assuming when the Lord came in the flesh He would be like them and destroy. and He did destroy their religious deeds. Even worse is to wait on The Lord to come(return)in Spirit and expect Him to be like us. What is the fruit of the Spirit?

Matthew 5:43-48
[43] Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. [44] But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; [45] That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. [46] For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? [47] And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others ? do not even the publicans so? [48] Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Perfect as God is perfect goes along with loving those that don’t deserve it. It is the fulfillment of the Law. There are countless verses simalar and even the crucifixion that declares openly the full character of God (toward His enemies which you and I once were)... but all this is completely ignored and forgotten in sight of the day of judgment. “They will get what is coming to them. the Bible says so.” The mercy seat is over and above all. I don’t expect a tea party(as you said). I’m not blind; I’m aware evil(hate) is escalating. What I do expect is mercy and not because I did anything to deserve mercy but because Mercy was freely given. Romans 11:29-33 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. [30] For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: [31] Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. [32] For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. [33] O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

Do you want to argue the depth and riches of God? How deep do they(His riches go)? You may say: No that is only for Israel. It is all unbelief. To believe those that are blind deserve what is coming is to believe we had something to do with our being ‘given’ sight. But scripture says ‘we believe’ because of ‘their unbelief’. Since we had nothing to do with our believing or sight but were chosen to be vessels of mercy(from the mercy seat over and above all) ...what a shame when we (those obtaining undeserved mercy and grace) cry punish them for their unbelief instead of: “that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.”

And in this “mercy” we become the Sons of God, of He that is upon the Mercy seat (over and above all), and fulfill Matthew 22:37-40 and He is not ashamed to call us HIS. “Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. [38] This is the first and great commandment. [39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. [40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.”

Romans 8:16-18
[16] The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: [17] And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him , that we may be also glorified together. [18] For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

What glory?
Mercy.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I could go line by line but you would still reject anything I would contribute and consider it nonsense. It would turn into a debate when the real question is who is God? No disrespect but it appears you are waiting for the same Lord the Pharisees waited upon, assuming when the Lord came in the flesh He would be like them and destroy. and He did destroy their religious deeds. Even worse is to wait on The Lord to come(return)in Spirit and expect Him to be like us. What is the fruit of the Spirit?

Matthew 5:43-48
[43] Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. [44] But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; [45] That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. [46] For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? [47] And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others ? do not even the publicans so? [48] Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Perfect as God is perfect goes along with loving those that don’t deserve it. It is the fulfillment of the Law. There are countless verses simalar and even the crucifixion that declares openly the full character of God (toward His enemies which you and I once were)... but all this is completely ignored and forgotten in sight of the day of judgment. “They will get what is coming to them. the Bible says so.” The mercy seat is over and above all. I don’t expect a tea party(as you said). I’m not blind; I’m aware evil(hate) is escalating. What I do expect is mercy and not because I did anything to deserve mercy but because Mercy was freely given. Romans 11:29-33 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. [30] For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: [31] Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. [32] For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. [33] O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

Do you want to argue the depth and riches of God? How deep do they(His riches go)? You may say: No that is only for Israel. It is all unbelief. To believe those that are blind deserve what is coming is to believe we had something to do with our being ‘given’ sight. But scripture says ‘we believe’ because of ‘their unbelief’. Since we had nothing to do with our believing or sight but were chosen to be vessels of mercy(from the mercy seat over and above all) ...what a shame when we (those obtaining undeserved mercy and grace) cry punish them for their unbelief instead of: “that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.”

And in this “mercy” we become the Sons of God, of He that is upon the Mercy seat (over and above all), and fulfill Matthew 22:37-40 and He is not ashamed to call us HIS. “Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. [38] This is the first and great commandment. [39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. [40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.”

Romans 8:16-18
[16] The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: [17] And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him , that we may be also glorified together. [18] For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

What glory?
Mercy.

Victory, instead of answering my question you asked me four more of your own. If you are unwilling to answer one simple question, then neither will I answer four more from you.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Victory, instead of answering my question you asked me four more of your own. If you are unwilling to answer one simple question, then neither will I answer four more from you.

You already have all the answers to the questions. The only answer you want or will accept which is your own.

 

[Taken]

the first thing that caught my eye in your post is that this verse says "body"...."Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."
and this verse says corpse...."Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather"

The body is "alive" in Christ, whereas the corpse is dead in Christ.

Yes or No?

It is "WHOSE" body that is pertinent.

During the tribulation, there are times, that a third of mankind is KILLED. Dead bodies are going to be strewn about, and not buried, and left for BIRD FOOD.

Those bodies do not apply to those who are IN Christ, for their BODIES will have been transformed into Glorious Bodies and WIth the Lord God, Above the face of the earth, AS in Noah's Day, when Noah was Saved from Gods Wrath and he ABOVE the Earth and It's destruction.

Gen 7: [17] And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.

God Bless,
Merry Christmas,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

“He who is glorious in His apparel,” covered in blood. Why does the Lord want His glorious apparel stained in the blood of His enemies?

that is not what God wants, but rather what happens, put in such a way that Hegelians can also read what they want

What sinner did the Lord not include in He died for all men especially those that believe.

exactly. All are forgiven, the gift is free, but no one has to take it, and they must reap what they sow, which is where all that blood comes from i guess

"Hey, where you guys @?"
"We're hiding behind this tree (doctrine) over here bc we heard you coming and we knew we were naked"
"Hmm. And who told you that?" ("not Me" iow)
"Did you do what i said not to do...?"
and there you have it, that is where all the blood comes from

 

[Enoch111]

“He who is glorious in His apparel,” covered in blood. Why does the Lord want His glorious apparel stained in the blood of His enemies?

We need to take that as metaphorical for the righteous judgments of God and Christ against all their enemies. In actual fact, Christ will simply destroy them with the Word of His mouth, and the brightness of His coming.

Also, stringing unrelated verses together does not clarify anything. It simply adds to confusion. Each thing must be taken in context.

Jeremiah 50:15-16

This simply relates to the first verse:
The word that the LORD spake against Babylon and against the land of the Chaldeans by Jeremiah the prophet.

Revelation 14:19-20

This relates to the battle of Armageddon after the Second Coming of Christ

Romans 12:19-21

This relates to Christians leaving the matter of vengeance to God against wrongs which they have suffered.

What did the crucifixion (His death) not repay? 1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

This relates to the atoning work of Christ, which is applicable only to those who obey the Gospel. But judgment is reserved for those who do not obey the Gospel.

Blood to the bridle, is Life to the bridle.

This is pure fantasy. Blood to the bridle (approx 5 feet) extending into a river of blood 200 miles long speaks of death, NOT life.

Luke 9:54-56

This was applicable at the time when Christ came to earth in humility and humiliation in order to offer salvation to all.

Are you expecting the return of Elias or the Lord?

John the Baptist came in the spirit and power of Elijah. In other, he was a replica of Elijah. However the actual Elijah will indeed come to earth and preach to Israel before the Day of the LORD. See Revelation 11. And the Lord Jesus will come to earth AFTER the Day of the LORD.

Again vengeance is mine, I will repay.
What sinner did the Lord not include in He died for all men especially those that believe.

It appears that you have a serious misunderstanding about the grace of God vs the righteous judgments of God. Grace does NOT cancel judgments upon those who reject and refuse grace.

 

[Taken]

Pretribbers are nothing more than liars.

Prove your allegations Against Converted men.

And how about you ADD, what you believe is the Purpose for a Converted man to BE on the Earth DURING the TRIBULATION.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[VictoryinJesus]

We need to take that as metaphorical

Ok. When and how do you decide when it is ‘metaphorical’ and when it is not, as in blood to the horse bridle?