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Featured Which One Are You Praying For Most?

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by Hidden In Him, Feb 28, 2021.

  1. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    I see two different kinds of justification. One is to be justified before others, which is when our faith produces works. Others can see our works, and infer our faith. This is what I think you are talking about here.

    The other is to be separated from our sins, rendered righteous by God. This is in a declaration of innocence by God, and in our rebirth, now born from God.

    Having died in Christ, we are freed from our flesh, the world, the Law, sin, transgression, free from the Law of Sin and Death. No guilt of sin, no power of sin over us, only to the extend that we are deceived into thinking that either we actually want sin, or that we cannot avoid sin, or whatever that deception may be.

    So that's more the justification I was speaking of.

    Much love!
     
  2. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Why do you think "we" are in such a bad place? Who is "we"?

    I don't dream of instructing God in how to order my life, I think He already has that plan in place.

    Vast numbers of people throughout the centuries have been persecuted for Christ, and vast numbers haven't.

    Is there virtue in seeking to be persecuted?

    Much love!
     
  3. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Since you asked . . .

    This to me seems like an overgeneralization that doesn't match my personal experience with the body of Christ. I also find great confidence in the Lord's ability to uphold His church.

    But I think there are many who profess Christ without rebirth.

    Much love!
     
  4. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    Hi there 'Hidden In Him,

    We do not have any common ground upon which to begin discussing this together, so I will have to bow out.

    Thank you
    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
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  5. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    @Hidden In Him
    There are probably several levels of this, where we are pushing ahead of God to obtain the "good" but by doing so perhaps actually encounter something not so good. An extreme example that comes to mind is people who purposely allow themselves to be physically crucified [in the Philippines?] or people who whip themselves or allow themselves to be whipped to supposedly close in on God.

    God is our leader. We are not to take our own reins in our own hands and expect Him to be there with us.


    "O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." Jerem 10:23
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2021
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  6. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    @Hidden In Him
    The thing that comes to mind is Moses when his face shone so blindly bright before men he had to put a veil over his face. It seems however that I am still missing your point. It must be me that is not understanding.

    Are you speaking only a man recognizing in himself that he is forgiven rather than other men recognizing it?
     
  7. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    I found it a very interesting study to examine the language in each of the 7 letters, and to compare with . . .

    • 7 kingdom parables
    • 7 periods in Israel's history
    • 7 letters from Paul
    • 7 phases in the life of a church
    • 7 periods of christendom

    I've found very interesting alignments in each of these.

    Much love!
     
  8. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    Thanks HIH!
     
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  9. stredaleve

    stredaleve Active Member

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    all 3 i did ask
    why you ask
    because i am not your typical normal person
     
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  10. Backlit

    Backlit Well-Known Member

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    I might add a little thought to that, I think the basic problem with mankind, and this began in the garden and was the principle reason why Adam and Eve rebelled, us that they didn't trust God... And they didn't trust Him because they didn't know Him as they ought. They misunderstood His character. The devil has done a great job of embedding that misunderstanding throughout mankind, which is why we end up making up our own gods after our own image.
    Thus we need trials to test out faith. To give us opportunity to learn that we can trust God in even the most extreme of circumstances... As one WW11 Jewish rabbi POW once said... You know God when you can stand over a pit of burning babies and still declare, God is love.

    I think it's deeper than just a covering. Nancy suggested that our sins are cast away as far as the east from the west, but that I believe that's still future... Yet there is a present sense I believe whereby our sins are removed at least from us, although there remains a record of them in heaven...
    KJV Zechariah 3:1-4
    1 And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.
    2 And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?
    3 Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel.
    4 And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2021
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  11. soul man

    soul man Well-Known Member

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    I like this kind of discussion.
    My opinion is; this should be a christian life lived out if possible. These things come to you in time. I don't know about never seeing sin, and seeing the world as God see's the world. I think we can see the world and how it is used of God for good, but seeing like he sees the world is not necessary, jmo.
     
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  12. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    to pray for one mostly ...is it not then the prayer of all three? 2) to pray for a life clothed in the Spirit of God, by which ones sins do not appear. 1) for sins to not appear do they have to not have to be consumed and burnt up in the fire of adversity? The same for 3) that 1 and 2; all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. [29] For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed (transformed)to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Romans 8:28-29

    To be honest...my prayer mostly is to just make it through the day.
     
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  13. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    Ok, then this I fully agree with. :)
    Cite the scripture you are basing the above on, and let's discuss it!
    We as in the modern church as a whole.
    Well that's my contention, yes. Imagine it as though the Lord wants us to conform ourselves as fully to His image as possible (Philippians 2:5-8), and those who fully express a desire for this, knowing what they are asking, are pleasing in His sight for doing so (Matthew 20:20-23).
     
  14. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    No problems, sister. I appreciate your politeness. :)

    God bless, and you're always the first one I tag, so we'll see how it goes next time.
     
  15. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    Oh! Ok, that I fully understand. This actually raises a strong theological question. The early church understood what I am teaching, and did indeed start taking it to the extremes you are talking about here eventually. My position on it is that we are stepping outside of God's will and superficially entering our own if we exact suffering upon ourselves, granted that flailing ourselves to a bloody mess is certainly more akin to truly suffering than those type that walk a mile or two with a wooden cross but without a mark on them.

    The thing I believe we are to do is just as the text suggests, and that is PRAY for whatever His will would be in this regard. And let me give you a for instance. Suppose a believer wants to have a faith tried in the fires so that he enters eternity having conformed himself more fully to Christ's image, in being obedient even unto death, and yet his calling requires him to live out his full life? What then? He has to ask the Lord for whatever His plan would be, that he take up the cross in sufferings and trials, but in a way that does not take his life from him.

    I'm against self-imposed suffering and trials. It takes matters out of God's hands, and also makes assumptions we should not be making.

    Exactly. Didn't read this until just now, but that's the way I feel too. :)
     
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  16. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    THAT sounds like a lot of work, LoL.

    I suggest if the Lord calls you to it, maybe write up a piece on how much of it aligns (not sure how much of it does). If so, tag me, and I'll do what I can to try and respond.
     
  17. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    Well good for you, stredaleve, LoL.

    I hope you indeed have, and I hope the Lord answers you, and you enter the kingdom rich in all spiritual things.

    Thank you for the post.
    - H
     
  18. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    That's an interesting thought... I don't think seeing everything He sees is necessary, no. so maybe in a way I agree with you.
     
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  19. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    In some sense they could fold over into each other, yes Victory. The more we are clothed upon in the Spirit the more we will speak by the Spirit, and the more the sword is drawn the more the enemy will seek to attack us and drive us back, leading to sufferings, afflictions and persecution. Likewise the more our eyes are opened to see things as God sees them, the more truth will come out of our mouths, again leading to the same things.

    And a faith tried in the fires leads one to call out to God, leading to being clothed upon and having the eyes anointed. So good point.

    Well that's a good prayer, too. :) It means that maybe to some extent you've got the first one covered already, and great reward awaits you in the next life!

    God bless, and hope you are having a wonderful day!
    - H
     
  20. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    Wow. Leave it to a Jew to really say it like it can best be said, LoL.

    I think this is a wonderful thought, and it goes to why God allows sufferings to begin with... it's a glorious thing, when you think about it. That we have to live this life not knowing for certain if there is reward in the afterlife or not, but just trusting God in faith, out of love for Him, and being trained unto obedience... to then be surprised and rewarded with things far greater than we could have ever asked. It's glorious. :)

    It's an interesting passage. To me v.4 means that his life and his walk will now change as a result of a new anointing from God, more than that the Lord would cast away his (future) sins, but that is open to interpretation I suppose.

    Thanks for the response, bro.
     
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