Which temple does he stand in claiming to be God?

[Rex]

Could any of you temple watches tell me when this judgment was lifted against the unbelieving "Jews"? Making the temple building a house of God again?

38 See! Your house is left to you desolate; 39 for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ”

Matthew 27:50-51

 

[veteran]

But do they have a red heifer available for sacrifice, as I understand that it's significant to their practice of religion?

Evidently they must have already done that purification, because the red heifer requirement was so they could go up on the Temple Mount itself. For the past several years now, Orthodox Jews in Jerusalem involved with the movement of rebuilding another temple have goine up to seek entrance to the Temple Mount, hauling with them a cut cornerstone to put in place upon the mount to start the building of another temple. The Israeli government has refused them access each time. I recall back in the late 1990's those Jews declared the appearance of a pure red heifer, and then it was unproven to be, and then the news media got silent on the matter thereafter.

But Biblically, one can easliy know the temple Paul mentioned in 2 Thess.2:4 is not Christ's Body. That matter is simple, because it would mean that Christ Himself could be corrupted, since He is The Chief Cornerstone of the spiritual temple of Ephesians.

Eph 2:20-22
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
(KJV)

That above CAN NEVER BE CORRUPTED. Those who fall away from it become apostates and are cut off from that foundation of the spiritual temple of Ephesians.

That's why it's easy to know the doctrine of Paul's 2 Thess.2:4 temple being associated with the spiritual temple of Ephesians is a false teaching from the false Jews, for they do not CARE if it means our Lord Jesus Christ as The Chief Corner Stone being corrupted by their antichrist of 2 Thess.2:3-4. They HATE our Lord Jesus Christ, and that Ephesians foundation which represents Christ's Church.

That's why the one they worship is coming to sit in a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem, to TRY and get you to think it will be the future Ezekiel Milennium Temple which our Lord Jesus will build when He returns. When that false temple is built in our times, and the coming pseudo-Christ comes to sit in it proclaiming himself as God, that's probably when all the false preachers are going to say they forgot to tell us about the Ezekiel Milennium Temple that Christ is coming to reign from. They will be telling us that pseudo-Christ is our Lord Jesus and to go worship him. How can I think or say this about a lot of the preachers in today's Church?

Firstly, it's because of the concept of the great apostasy ("falling away") that Paul was warning us of there in 2 Thessalonians 2. He gave that as a warning to Christ's Church, not to the unbelievers. Secondly, because our Lord Jesus Himself warned us of this pseudo-Christ event for the last days, in His Olivet Discourse and through John in Revelation. The time of not one stone standing upon another in Jerusalem He was telling His disciples about upon the Mount of Olives was not about the destruction of Jerusalem and the second temple in 70 A.D. It's about the destruction of the temple Paul was speaking of in 2 Thess.2, the temple which the Orthodox Jews in Jerusalem today are getting ready to build in prep for false messiah's coming to sit in and play God. And thirdly, lot of Christian Churches today have actually been SUPPORTING the Orthodox Jews with their plans to build another temple in Jerusalem, sending them funds, helping them with red heifers for future sacrifice, etc.

The false Jews (tares) our Lord Jesus pointed to in Rev.2:9 and 3:9 are the ones behind all this, for they know who they worship. They are trapping many of our brother Judah (true Jews) into that falseness with them, and also many Christian brethren that will fall away to that when the pseudo-Christ arrives. That's the purpose of all the false teachings that disregard those future events of a literal physical temple established in Jerusalem for the last days so the pseudo-Christ/false messiah can come to try and play King of the world and God, all prior to our Lord Jesus Christ's second coming.

 

[Rex]

Firstly, it's because of the concept of the great apostasy ("falling away") that Paul was warning us of there in 2 Thessalonians 2. He gave that as a warning to Christ's Church, not to the unbelievers. Secondly, because our Lord Jesus Himself warned us of this pseudo-Christ event for the last days, in His Olivet Discourse and through John in Revelation. The time of not one stone standing upon another in Jerusalem He was telling His disciples about upon the Mount of Olives was not about the destruction of Jerusalem and the second temple in 70 A.D. It's about the destruction of the temple Paul was speaking of in 2 Thess.2, the temple which the Orthodox Jews in Jerusalem today are getting ready to build in prep for false messiah's coming to sit in and play God. And thirdly, lot of Christian Churches today have actually been SUPPORTING the Orthodox Jews with their plans to build another temple in Jerusalem, sending them funds, helping them with red heifers for future sacrifice, etc.

Kids say the darnedest things

 

[veteran]

Kids say the darnedest things

See brethren, when 'they' cannot refute the Scriptures they resort to silly attempts to attack one's credibility. So let's take a look at what Christ and His disciples upon the Mount of Olives were talking about with the destruction Jesus spoke of...


Matt 24:1-3
1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and His disciples came to Him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, "See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."
3 And as He sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of Thy coming, and of the end of the world?"
(KJV)

The false prophets do everything they can to try and get the believer off track of what timing Christ's disciples were asking Him about in relation to His saying, "See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down." His disciples showed they understood the timing being for the end with His coming, but not about the specific events, by asking their question, "Tell us, WHEN shall these things be? and what shall be THE SIGN OF THY COMING, and of THE END OF THE WORLD?" (my emphasis in capitals).

Did Christ's second coming happen in 70 A.D. when the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and the 2nd temple then, leaving only the stones of the Wailing Wall from that old temple complex that still stands today? NO.

Has the end of this world happenned yet today? NO! And we can easily know that's the timing they asked Him about since God's Word shows Christ's SECOND coming happenning in conjunction with the END of this present world!

Christ continues His answer to them in Matt.24, giving 7 Signs of the very end of this present world which are direct parallels to the 6 Seals in His Book of Revelation. Revelation was penned by Apostle John while in prison on the Isle of Patmos during the reign of emperor Domitian which is placed around 96 A.D. The Romans destroyed Jerusalem and the second temple 26 years earlier.

So why would the false Jews want to attack that specific Matt.24 Scripture point of Jesus declaring not one stone will be standing in relation to the SIGN of His second coming and the end of this world? The reason is simple, and has been the main point of debate here, that of a future REBUILT TEMPLE IN JERUSALEM for OUR times prior to our Lord Jesus' second coming.

If you see anything in God's Word which points to that idea of a standing temple in Jerusalem for false worship PRIOR to Christ's second coming, then that... is going to be a Scripture the false Jews go after to try and twist OUT of your mind, to get you off the idea of the pseudo-messiah that is coming to sit in that temple playing God, just as Apostle Paul taught in 2 Thess.2:3-4, and Daniel 8 through 11, and Jesus in Matthew 24 and Mark 13.

 

[Rex]

Futurism and Preterism can both be traced back to the Jesuits of the catholic church.

http://www.aloha.net.../antichrist.htm

Here's the keystones you base your interpretation on veteran

Danial 9:27

Here's the source of the needed temple that is so widely spoken of.
The displaced 70 week, here instead of seeing Jesus your taught to see
the AC



27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; <-Salvation offered to the Jews, a new covenant, salvation was exclusively Jewish, until Paul and Peter were sent to the Gentiles. 70th week fulfilled as salvation went out to the Gentiles.
But in the middle of the week <- Jesus went to the cross,
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. <- the veil of the temple was torn Matthew 27:51 Mark 15:38 , I leave unto you your house desolate, Matthew 23:38
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, <-The abominations of the Pharisees, Jesus declared it desolate, Matthew 23:38
Even until the consummation, which is determined, <-Roman army 70 AD
Is poured out on the desolate. <-Roman army 70 AD



2 Thes 2:4

Here is were dispensationalis will then take you after you believe Dan 9:27
is the AC instead of Jesus Christ, this verse they say confirms a
temple building, which by the way Jesus did away with and called it desolate as a result of the new covenant Matthew 26:28 , in Matthew 23:38 desolate, just as it says in Dan 9:27

A new temple could never be called the temple of God.

There is already a tread I commented in about the temple. Paul clear repeats himself many times in the NT that we are the temple of God http://www.christian...ming-to-be-god/



Romans 11:25

Here lies the NT verse that supports the displaced 70th week, And the
famous "Gods not done with Israel" phrase in-spite of handfuls of
verses that claim the promise to Abraham was to the seed instead of the
blood decedents Matthew 3:9 . Those that rejected the seed are not of the promise and those that do, even the Gentiles are of the promise.

This verse is interpreted to excuse all Jews from believing in Christ
and at some future point Jesus will reveal himself and they will all be
saved in spite of the teaching of Jesus. I recently asked someone here
to show me another verse in the NT that says Jews will receive salvation
because they are Jews.



So there you have the shaky key stones of dispensationalism. Which for the most part can also be called futurist, IMO thats not much to stand on.

Dan 9:27
2 Thes 2:4
Romans 11:25

 

[veteran]

Futurism and Preterism can both be traced back to the Jesuits of the catholic church.

I could care less about false Jew's doctrines against both the Protestant and Catholic Churches. This is a CHRISTIAN forum, not a forum of Judaism from which you're pushing that slur. Your false Jew teachings don't belong here.

http://www.aloha.net.../antichrist.htm

Here's the keystones you base your interpretation on veteran

You're just taking opportunity to post more of your false Jew links for potential brainwashing against Christians.

You don't have a clue from what I base my understanding of the endtime prophecies on of a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem for the coming pseudo-Christ to come setup false idol worship in, simply because you're NOT really interested in keeping to what God's Word says, but what the false Jews say instead.

You only reveal how 'ripe' for the picking you are for the coming pseudo-Christ.

 

[dragonfly]

Hello Rex and veteran,

We all need one another - as members of the body of Christ - to share the revelation we each have ... for the edification of those who have another part of the whole. And, we each need to listen for what God is speaking to us through each other, too. I learn from both of you, and I'm grateful for all the chunks of bread, and the gleanings.


Hi Rex,

What you've laid out in your last post is very close to what I 'read' in Daniel 9:27. However, you know there are many voices variously dissenting in different directions, trying to make the verse line up with other teaching, whether scriptural, or, (more usually) insupportable from random Bible verses? But if they would take the rest of the Bible into account, the selected verses cannot mean what they've been co-opted for, in whichever (false) doctrine.

Without the Holy Spirit, no-one can 'see' this.

Veteran is concerned for the large body of 'professing believers' who don't really know God, but still have time to get real and avoid being deceived. He is, also, trying to communicate that Jesus knew what was going to come to pass well beyond 70AD, (as I'm sure you also believe).

Matthew 11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

It seems to me that you are both writing from the point of view of your inner eyes having been opened by the Lord to spiritual truths, but are seeing both the fulfilment of prophecy and unfulfilled prophecy from very different perspectives. It seems that as soon as Christ appeared, anti (instead of)-Christs were all ready to appear.... Anything to distract God's people from fulfilling what He has ordained for us, and His calling upon our lives.


I believe the lack of spiritual vision by certain Israelites and Jews, has an additional spiritual component:

Isaiah 6:9 And he said, Go, and tell this people,
Hear ye indeed, but understand not;
and see ye indeed, but perceive not.
10 Make the heart of this people fat,
and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes;
lest they see with their eyes,
and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.

But later in Isaiah, this gracious word from the Lord comes forth to the same people (maybe different generation):

Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me;
because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek;
he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives,
and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord,

This Jesus quotes with an added phrase in Luke 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, 18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he has sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. 20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. 21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

Thus, Jesus could speak to both those who were recovering their sight, and those who were not:

Matthew 13:9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

10 And the disciples came, and said to him, Why speak thou unto them in parables? 11 He answered and said to them, Because it is given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. 12 For whosoever has, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever has not, from him shall be taken away even that he has.

13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. 14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which says, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: 15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

17 For verily I say to you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

The only sense which can be made out of these pronouncements, is that they - the Pharisees and religious authorities - knew what they were doing. They knew Jesus was their Messiah, and they chose not to receive Him, and thus, what Paul describes in 2 Corinthians 3:16 did not enter their experience; and finally, there was no more help for that generation, and there won't be for those who remain unrepentant and unbelieving in ours, or the generations to come. God decides.

Romans 11:25, is clearly still in effect: 'that blindness in part is happened to Israel'.


Hi veteran,

I know you'll correct me if you think I'm wrong ;) but you know I won't mind that. Do you agree that this blindness, caused by both God's pronouncement and idolatry - walking in darkness - is a significant factor, today?


In respect to one line of Rex's exposition of Daniel 9:27 (re Matthew 23:38)

And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, <-The abominations of the Pharisees, Jesus declared it desolate,

it does tie in with Jesus' words to and about the Pharisees, to say nothing of the priests who conspired against Him
.

Luke 16:14 And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things [about how a man cannot serve God and mammon - 'two masters']: and they derided him. 15 And Jesus said to them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knows your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.


More could be said about the abominations named in scripture, in which Pharisees engaged, but I want to stay with the blindness which 'happened to Israel', dating back to Isaiah 6 (for the sake of readers):

Matthew 15:10 And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:11 Not that which goes into the mouth defiles a man; but that which comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man.

12 Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying? 13 But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up. 14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

15 Then answered Peter and said to him, Declare to us this parable. 16 And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding? We know they really didn't have the Holy Spirit illuminating their undersanding, yet.

17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever enters in at the mouth goes into the belly, and is cast out into the draught? 18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. 19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: 20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defiles not a man.

Fast forward to Paul's plea beginning in Romans 9, and we come to Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. 2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves to the righteousness of God.

As I see it, this is the point at which unbelieving Israel/false Jews become visible. Just as before, as in the days of Jeroboam, they are continuing in idolatry (covetousness), only this time the 'golden calves' they are kissing, are: the land, another temple, religious practices, and a willingness to kill to get what they think they deserve. 'We have no king but Caesar'. As Paul wrote in Romans 2, due to their unrepentant attitudes, they are storing up wrath for themselves.

This is 'Israel of the flesh', who by their unbelief, sadly, exclude themselves from 'the promise'. These continue to pass unbelief down the generations, despite what happened in the wilderness. Hebrews 3:16, 17, 18, 19.

God has not changed and neither have those who refuse to turn to the Lord.

Paul captures the scenario for us at the end of Romans 2:


17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and rest in the law, and make thy boast of God, 18 And know his will, and approve the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law; 19 And are confident that thou thyself are a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness, 20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law. 21 Thou therefore who teaches another, teaches thou not thyself? thou that preaches a man should not steal, dost thou steal? 22 Thou that says a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege? 23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God? 24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written. 25 For circumcision verily profits, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.

Isn't this what you are trying to highlight? Being a renegade of Israel throws the whole focus away from God.

And being a non-Jew-at-heart, leads unbelieving Jews and those who align themselves with them from the secular world and the Church, to become totally vulnerable to God's judgment - because they are not following the Lord Jesus Christ and His doctrine, but rather are following deceptions and doctrines of devils which have the potential to destroy them?


I'll be honest, I don't know why you think Rex might be open to deception, just because he's focusing on one aspect of revelation in its historical context. If the things you're speaking of are being fulfilled, way after the 70th week, then aren't we all on the same page, that Jesus prophesied about our time, but Daniel did not...???

 

[Rex]

I could care less about false Jew's doctrines against both the Protestant and Catholic Churches. This is a CHRISTIAN forum, not a forum of Judaism from which you're pushing that slur. Your false Jew teachings don't belong here.




You're just taking opportunity to post more of your false Jew links for potential brainwashing against Christians.

You don't have a clue from what I base my understanding of the endtime prophecies on of a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem for the coming pseudo-Christ to come setup false idol worship in, simply because you're NOT really interested in keeping to what God's Word says, but what the false Jews say instead.

You only reveal how 'ripe' for the picking you are for the coming pseudo-Christ.

Here's what I see veteran, you believe you have the whole the bible all figured out you have carefully selected scriptures that support your opinion. The problem is as is for many that it excludes foundational principles that are repeat many times threw-out the NT.

The first is of course the temple and what Jesus himself declared against it. It is of no more use or value. The naoes is now with-in those in Christ period.
No temple ever being reconstructed will ever reverse Jesus declaring it desolate in Matthew 23. No works of un-believing Jews is ever going undo the tearing of the veil. In effect it will NEVER be found or declared Gods temple in the eyes of GOD.

This form of interpretation ignores huge portions of teaching from the NT, it's common in the "church today" it's as though ignoring repeated teachings that are contrary to portions of the NT is the only way to understand. Not to mention the host of cookie cutter labels that are manufactured and applied to anyone or anything that questions WHY do you teach this when the NT clearly doesn't indicate it. As some may have noticed this is veterans greatest defense of the scriptures I presented, monikers and labels. In other words he can't dispute the host of scripture that contradicts his interpretation and refuses to understand the writings and see them in harmony with one another but instead chooses to argue against not me but what is repeated many times in the NT.

Romans 11:25, is clearly still in effect: 'that blindness in part is happened to Israel'.

I'm unsure of what your point is with the closing statement. I'm going to presume you still understand it mean what Dispensationalists understand it to mean, that God has blinded the Jewish people for many generations on account of the fathers. The only way this works is to believe that God punishes for many generations the sin of the father, I been watching daq and yours conversation about the sour grapes in Jer.

Secondly I ask you to show me in the NT where salvation to the Jews is based on being a decedent of Abraham? This is also THE verse used to support such nonsense, and I will show you at least 7 that says it is not based on bloodlines. So in regards to your comment, If God doesn't save according to blood why does he blind and curse according to blood lines?

 

[veteran]

Hi veteran,

I know you'll correct me if you think I'm wrong ;) but you know I won't mind that. Do you agree that this blindness, caused by both God's pronouncement and idolatry - walking in darkness - is a significant factor, today?

Yes, it apparently is part of how God is allowing many among His people and Christ's Church to become deceived for the last days, helping in the great falling away Paul mentioned. I won't let up about the source of it that I've already pointed to here on this forum. The problem is that Biblically, the worst creeping in of the unawares during Bible history has been among our brother Judah. That's where the majority of the 'blindness' is centered, as Apostle Paul also revealed in Romans 11. Many of their doctrines have a way of creeping into Christ's Church also, simply because the crept in unawares are among Christ's body also, even as they were in Paul's days. So the warnings by Christ's Apostles, like Paul's in Acts 20:28-31 with his departing, are especially... in effect for the Church today. And what are many in Christ's Church today doing instead? Having a big party mentality, as if the main battle is already over. Instead, the main battle is coming in our days.

In respect to one line of Rex's exposition of Daniel 9:27 (re Matthew 23:38)


it does tie in with Jesus' words to and about the Pharisees, to say nothing of the priests who conspired against Him
.

Luke 16:14 And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things [about how a man cannot serve God and mammon - 'two masters']: and they derided him. 15 And Jesus said to them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knows your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

Covering all the dealings our Lord Jesus had with the Pharisees, we know His most harsh rebukes were not to all of them (recall Nicodemus, and Jesus dined with some of them; Nicodemus brought spices for His burial). Some of them believed on our Lord Jesus, so we cannot apply what He said in all cases to them like a blanket rebuke. Once that's understood, His strongest rebukes to the scribes and Pharisees stand out more as to the foreigner bondservants and Idumeans of OT history that had crept in among them, and were calling theirselves Jews, i.e., those He labeled as the "synagogue of Satan" in Rev.2:9 and Rev.3:9 when speaking to His elect. In every way, those specific ones well knew Who He was, which is why those specific ones wanted to kill Him all the more (see John 8 for His greatest rebuke of those crept in unawares, the tares among the good wheat).

As for Matt.23:38, their house was... left desolate because of their corruptions. But that was not what the 'abomination of desolation' is. The "abomination of desolation" from the Book of Daniel is specific to an idol abomination that makes... the sanctuary spiritually desolate. And that's a destruction of a different color that never... happened in 70 A.D. Moreover, Dan.9:27 speaks of something being made desolate BECAUSE of "the overspreading of abominations", with a certain "he" doing that, with very specific info on how in the Dan.11:30-31 verses, which is a pointer to the coming Antichrist and 2 Thess.2:3-4 placing an idol in false worship in Jerusalem. (what Antiochus IV in 165-170 B.C. did was the actual pattern for the "abomination of desolation" of Daniel. Yet Christ warned about the "abomination of desolation" long after Antiochus' days).

More could be said about the abominations named in scripture, in which Pharisees engaged, but I want to stay with the blindness which 'happened to Israel', dating back to Isaiah 6 (for the sake of readers):

Matthew 15:10 And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:11 Not that which goes into the mouth defiles a man; but that which comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man.

12 Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying? 13 But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up. 14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

15 Then answered Peter and said to him, Declare to us this parable. 16 And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding? We know they really didn't have the Holy Spirit illuminating their undersanding, yet.

17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever enters in at the mouth goes into the belly, and is cast out into the draught? 18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. 19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: 20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defiles not a man.

Fast forward to Paul's plea beginning in Romans 9, and we come to Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. 2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves to the righteousness of God.

As I see it, this is the point at which unbelieving Israel/false Jews become visible. Just as before, as in the days of Jeroboam, they are continuing in idolatry (covetousness), only this time the 'golden calves' they are kissing, are: the land, another temple, religious practices, and a willingness to kill to get what they think they deserve. 'We have no king but Caesar'. As Paul wrote in Romans 2, due to their unrepentant attitudes, they are storing up wrath for themselves.

Once again, it's important to be careful of blanket accusations, since our Lord Jesus contrasted the 'tares' from the 'good wheat'. Many wrongly assume that the scribes and Pharisees are all of the seed of Israel, and just 'blinded' per the Rom.11 Message. Not so. Take the scribes for example. Per 1 Chronicles 2:55 and Genesis 15 the scribes were descended from the Kenite peoples, a people that dwelt among the nations of Canaan when God first gave His covenant to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob not even born yet. So here these scribes were, not even seed born Israelites, and they were the main caretakers of The Scriptures, making copies and keeping them from one generation to the next! Are we to be so naive as to think all of them truly converted to The God of Israel? Our Lord Jesus' explanation of the parable of the tares of the field reveals that we are not... to be that naive. If someone in Christ's Church does not understand that as written, then they reveal the Romans 11 'blindness' upon theirself, and have little clue as to who Israel's real enemies are. What makes this even more of a consternation is how our Heavenly Father long ago revealed this in Scripture like Judges 2 & 3 when Israel failed to obey Him in wiping out the nations of Canaan that He commanded to be completely destroyed. He said He would leave those among Israel, to try His people, to test them to see if they would follow Him, or not. Does that sound like all the remnants of those Canaanite nations that crept in among His people would turn away from their false gods and instead worship only Him? No, it does not. God warned His people; we have no excuse if we allow the tares to get a foot hold and cause any of God's people to go astray.

This is 'Israel of the flesh', who by their unbelief, sadly, exclude themselves from 'the promise'. These continue to pass unbelief down the generations, despite what happened in the wilderness. Hebrews 3:16, 17, 18, 19.

Nope. There's the 'tares' which are the root of paganology and false worship, and then the 'good wheat' of the flesh seed of Israel, and spiritual Israel. The majority are not taught about the 'tares' and their origins per God's Word. Nor have they made the connection with their history as Jews joined among the 'good wheat' (true Jews). Christ made that distinction, true Jew, false Jew, got it? One of the seed of Israel can be following the 'tares' (false Jews) and perish, just as with a Gentile. But the 'blindness' idea of Rom.11 from Apostle Paul is for the seed of Israel, NOT the 'tares' for the 'tares' are NOT blinded; they know what they do and who they really worship (i.e., Lucifer).

God has not changed and neither have those who refuse to turn to the Lord.

Paul captures the scenario for us at the end of Romans 2:


17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and rest in the law, and make thy boast of God, 18 And know his will, and approve the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law; 19 And are confident that thou thyself are a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness, 20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law. 21 Thou therefore who teaches another, teaches thou not thyself? thou that preaches a man should not steal, dost thou steal? 22 Thou that says a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege? 23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God? 24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written. 25 For circumcision verily profits, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.

Isn't this what you are trying to highlight? Being a renegade of Israel throws the whole focus away from God.

And being a non-Jew-at-heart, leads unbelieving Jews and those who align themselves with them from the secular world and the Church, to become totally vulnerable to God's judgment - because they are not following the Lord Jesus Christ and His doctrine, but rather are following deceptions and doctrines of devils which have the potential to destroy them?

That's not it at all. Paul's rebuke there can be applied to any of the Jews of the seed of Israel that refuse to give up those things which Christ nailed to His cross. What I mean by that, is one like how Saul was before Christ converted him, sincere in what he followed, a true believer on our Heavenly Father and seeker after righteousness.

If you ever read some of the devil's ideas written in the Babylonian Talmud sage writings, you might then understand about the ones I'm talking about. It's called the Babylonian Talmud because that's when and where that branch of Jewish philsophy got started, during Judah's 70 years Babylon captivity. That's also probably when their Jewish mystic Kabbalah system got started. Take the old Canaanite paganology and join it together with the Old Covenant to create a separate cosmology and mystical philosophical system and that's what you get. No wonder it contains ideas that it's OK to murder the 'Goyim' (Gentiles), and lie to them, steal, whatever, as long as they don't do it to one of their own. This is why mysticism, the occult, etc., can be found among so many of their teachings. What I'm saying, is that PAGANS crept in among the Jews back in Old Testament history, joined their pagan culture to create the systems of the scribes and Pharisees, and THAT especially is what our Lord Jesus and His Apostles rebuked.

This is why once you understand about that distinction, it becomes more clear why Jesus and some of the Apostles had such strong rebukes towards some of them...


Matt 3:4-10
4 And the same John had his raiment of camel's hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey.
5 Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan,
6 And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.

John the Baptist preparing the way for Christ's first coming. Easy to grasp that.


7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, "O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

Whoah! It's not written that those Pharisees and Sadducees did any stir there yet, and immediately John jumps on them with his rebuke. "O generation of vipers"? what's that? Literally, John called them an offspring of snakes. John also put them in the category of receiving God's impending wrath to come unless they repent.


9 And think not to say within yourselves, 'We have Abraham to our father': for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

Why would John bring that up which they say? If you were one of the old Canaanite pagans crept in among Judea, attained a high place of respectability among the Jews, calling yourself a Jew of Israel, hiding, wouldn't you make the false claim of being a descendent of Abraham? John knew those were not descended from Abraham, which is why he brought that up before they could falsely claim it. And as another counter to that claim, John tells them that God is able to even raise up rocks to be children of Abraham (thus pointing to spiritual Israel, seed counted as Israel according to Faith on Christ Jesus).


10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire."
(KJV)

What is that our Lord Jesus said about the corrupt evil tree not being able... to produce good fruit? Jude 1 tells us that certain men were 'ordained' of old to this condemnation of being against Christ. Doesn't mean it's impossible for any of those 'tares' to convert and truly come to Christ Jesus, but they've been given a nature to instead purposefully work for the devil, and they would have to first overcome that ordaining by God Himself. Thus this is part of the "mystery of iniquity" that Paul mentioned, and what the parable of the tares of the field is about, and it's part of God's Plan for this world that He ordained. We cannot change it, but we are... to understand it since our Lord Jesus foretold us about it (Matt.13).

I'll be honest, I don't know why you think Rex might be open to deception, just because he's focusing on one aspect of revelation in its historical context. If the things you're speaking of are being fulfilled, way after the 70th week, then aren't we all on the same page, that Jesus prophesied about our time, but Daniel did not...???

Surely I don't have to tell you where a lot of the seminary doctrines have been springing from, not after all that I covered already. Do I need to cover Christ's Olivet Discourse of Matt.24 and Mark 13 line upon line again? For those interested, I've already done that once on this forum. Look back for it. The signs Jesus gave there are for the very end of this world, not for 70 A.D., although 70 A.D. served as a pattern type, just like how what Antiochus Epiphanes in 170 B.C. served as a 'pattern' for the future "abomination of desolation" event to come in Jerusalem that's described in the Book of Daniel.

Here's what I see veteran, you believe you have the whole the bible all figured out you have carefully selected scriptures that support your opinion. The problem is as is for many that it excludes foundational principles that are repeat many times threw-out the NT.

NO ONE has ALL of God's Word figured out. But I don't mind you wrongly claiming that I think I do, since all your statement shows is nothing but jealousy. Water off a duck's back man.

The first is of course the temple and what Jesus himself declared against it. It is of no more use or value. The naoes is now with-in those in Christ period.

You're wrong. Try telling that to the Orthodox Jews in Israel today who are getting ready to build another temple in Jerusalem. Burying your head in the sand about it isn't going to make it go away. And I've already shown how your play on Greek words for 'temple' is fallacy.

No temple ever being reconstructed will ever reverse Jesus declaring it desolate in Matthew 23. No works of un-believing Jews is ever going undo the tearing of the veil. In effect it will NEVER be found or declared Gods temple in the eyes of GOD.

Yeah, the Matt.23 Scripture of their house being left desolate is another pry-bar tool used to try and get believers off the signs of the end that Jesus gave in the next Matt.24 chapter. You're not the first one here that's tried to use that ploy.

Those in Christ Jesus don't need a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem today, but Jesus will build one for His Milennial reign as shown in the Book of Ezekiel. But the unbelieving Jews, that's different, because they don't recognize the New Covenant nor Jesus Christ (which you well know but are only playing possum on those things they desire). THEY think they need it, because THEY believe the Old Covenant is STILL in effect for them. And THEY have every intention of claiming it will be 'God's Temple'. Is your head coming out of the sand any yet?

(Where's that youtube video of one of the Orthodox Jews giving his spill about the plan to rebuild another literal Jewish temple in Jerusalem today? Somebody put that up for old Rex here again).

This form of interpretation ignores huge portions of teaching from the NT, it's common in the "church today" it's as though ignoring repeated teachings that are contrary to portions of the NT is the only way to understand. Not to mention the host of cookie cutter labels that are manufactured and applied to anyone or anything that questions WHY do you teach this when the NT clearly doesn't indicate it. As some may have noticed this is veterans greatest defense of the scriptures I presented, monikers and labels. In other words he can't dispute the host of scripture that contradicts his interpretation and refuses to understand the writings and see them in harmony with one another but instead chooses to argue against not me but what is repeated many times in the NT.

What form of interpretation do you speak of? The ideas YOU're pulling from are not even written in God's Word, because there is NO relation to the spiritual temple of Christ's Body which Paul described in Ephesians compared with the literal physical temple he described in 2 Thess.2:3-4. The only thing sticking out in your interpretation is ignorance of the difference between the subject of Ephesians and the subject of 2 Thessalonians 2.

How many times must we hear you say, "It isn't so, it isn't so, it isn't so," like some little school child crying to try and get their way?

An affirmation is when one tries to assert something to theirself, over and over, and over, in hopes it will be. One can assert continuously saying it is not so, but that proves nothing. You can even say it to yourself so many times that you begin to believe it. Still doesn't change a thing. But that's what untruthful people like you love to do, make false claims over and over and over, in hopes someone will listen.

I'm unsure of what your point is with the closing statement. I'm going to presume you still understand it mean what Dispensationalists understand it to mean, that God has blinded the Jewish people for many generations on account of the fathers. The only way this works is to believe that God punishes for many generations the sin of the father, I been watching daq and yours conversation about the sour grapes in Jer.

Secondly I ask you to show me in the NT where salvation to the Jews is based on being a decedent of Abraham? This is also THE verse used to support such nonsense, and I will show you at least 7 that says it is not based on bloodlines. So in regards to your comment, If God doesn't save according to blood why does he blind and curse according to blood lines?

He's talking about the blindness of Romans 11 which Apostle Paul declared that's upon the unbelieving Jews.

 

[Rex]

How many times must we hear you say, "It isn't so, it isn't so, it isn't so," like some little school child crying to try and get their way?

I guess as many times as we listen to you provide no evidence or scripture
contrary to what I have said or in direct support of your position.

It's really a waste of a good thread for you to barge in and continue post after post of nothing your a distraction a spoiler you have nothing to offer as evidence of a new temple that is sanctioned by God period. How many other prophesy threads have you endlessly disputed with nothing to offer, but wild trips into verses that have no relationship to the subject?

For instance what does Matthew 24 have to do with a temple?
Look at the interpreters reference in the NIV to Matthew 24:15 the first reference is Dan 9:27 which I already addressed and mentioned above, they teach you to see the Antichrist instead of Jesus Christ.

Yeah, the Matt.23 Scripture of their house being left desolate is
another pry-bar tool used to try and get believers off the signs of the
end that Jesus gave in the next Matt.24 chapter. You're not the first
one here that's tried to use that ploy.

Your no different than anyone else that takes the 70th week and places it into the future. In spite of common sense that says it surly isn't the 70th week if it didn't follow the 69th. Here lays the 70th week fulfilled by Jesus not some future temple the AC enters into, after which the temple is destroyed.

27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; <-Salvation offered to the Jews, a new covenant, salvation was exclusively Jewish, until Paul and Peter were sent to the Gentiles. 70th week fulfilled as salvation went out to the Gentiles. Read the promise to Abraham it always included the nations of the world. Just as we see it in the NT, Read the events in sequence from Stephens being stoned in Acts 7 to Ch8 when the church is persecuted and scattered, acts 9 Sauls conversion, Acts 10 Peter takes the message to Cornelius the Gentiles ending the 70th week, Just as the promise of the 70 weeks was fulfilled. 70 weeks are decreed for your people Dan 9:24
But in the middle of the week <- Jesus went to the cross,
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. <- the veil of the temple was torn Matthew 27:51 Mark 15:38 , I leave unto you your house desolate, Matthew 23:38
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, <-The abominations of the Pharisees, Jesus declared it desolate, Matthew 23:38
Even until the consummation, which is determined, <-Roman army 70 AD
Is poured out on the desolate. <-Roman army 70 AD

 

[veteran]

I guess as many times as we listen to you provide no evidence or scripture
contrary to what I have said or in direct support of your position.

There's that false affirmation type claiming again. Don't you ever get tired of playing that crazy tune? Your interpretation of the Scriptures you've posted on what the 2 Thess.2:4 temple is has already been debunked here. I guess you want more. No problem.

It's really a waste of a good thread for you to barge in and continue post after post of nothing your a distraction a spoiler you have nothing to offer as evidence of a new temple that is sanctioned by God period. How many other prophesy threads have you endlessly disputed with nothing to offer, but wild trips into verses that have no relationship to the subject?

Sanctioned what? Still telling lies aren't you? You never read anywhere in my posts where I said God sanctioned a literal temple in Jerusalem for the last days prior to Christ's return.

By making that false claim you only show you're true colors here, i.e., that you're a liar.

For brethren that might be interested in knowing what I've said about the temple Paul spoke of in 2 Thess.2, Paul is speaking of a literal physical temple the ORTHODOX JEWS will build in Jerusalem for the last days, PRIOR to our Lord Jesus' second coming.

But people like Rex here keep trying to put a LIE in my mouth, and others here like him that have tried to do that with this same subject too. If you haven't noticed Rex's little false ploy yet, it's this ---- If anyone teaches that Apostle Paul was speaking of a literal physical temple in 2 Thess.2:4 where the "man of sin" there is to sit and play God, as written there, then Rex's ploy is to claim you are saying that temple represents 'God's Temple', and the erroneous idea that He will sanction it (i.e., support it, in agreement).

It's really a stupid little ploy, lie, whatever one wants to call it, and it's only used to try and get you to agree with him about it representing Christ's 'spiritual temple', i.e., His Body of believers, i.e., the spiritual temple idea of Ephesians 2. Truth is the temple of 2 Thess.2:4 that the coming Antichrist is to sit in can NEVER represent Christ's spiritual temple because of the foundation of the one in Ephesians 2 can NOT ever... be corrupted by a false one! not even by a pope!

But a physical temple that ORTHODOX UNBELIEVING JEWS WHO REFUSE JESUS OF NAZARETH, 'their' rebuilt temple in Jerusalem CAN, and WILL BE corrupted by the coming Antichrist who will sit in it! And that is Apostle Paul's specific Message of warning for Christ's Church there in 2 Thess.2.

For instance what does Matthew 24 have to do with a temple?
Look at the interpreters reference in the NIV to Matthew 24:15 the first reference is Dan 9:27 which I already addressed and mentioned above, they teach you to see the Antichrist instead of Jesus Christ.

Everything. It's because Jesus said the generation when "all these things" happen will not end until they ALL come to pass. And within those SIGNS He gave include His RETURN and GATHERING OF THE CHURCH (which clearly have yet to happen).

Matt 24:32-36
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but My Father only.
(KJV)

It wasn't the generation He gave that through in His day, because ALL those things did NOT come to pass, and that generation is dead and buried. This is so... easy! The requirement is that ALL those things MUST come to pass upon a SPECIFIC generation. Since the very final SIGN He gave there in Matt.24 and Mark 13 is the SIGN of HIS COMING AND GATHERING OF HIS SAINTS, HIS CHURCH, i.e., HIS RETURN, that makes it even easier... to know that generation is the LAST generation on earth, the one that will experience HIS RETURN. It's so... easy know this! He made it so... simple! That puts ALL those SIGNS in the final days of this present world just PRIOR to Christ's second coming, INCLUDING the sign of not one stone standing on top of another!

And just to make sure His servants well know He was speaking that for the final generation on this earth, He stated "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My words shall not pass away." So what's that heaven and earth passing away about? It's about the events of 2 Peter 3:10 on the "day of the Lord", when the elements will melt by God's consuming fire. That's one of the events that accompanies Christ's future second coming.

Your no different than anyone else that takes the 70th week and places it into the future. In spite of common sense that says it surly isn't the 70th week if it didn't follow the 69th. Here lays the 70th week fulfilled by Jesus not some future temple the AC enters into, after which the temple is destroyed.

I don't have to be different. I allow God's Word to speak for Itself. And don't be silly, trying to push the signs Jesus gave in Matt.24 back to 70 A.D. is NOT using common sense. Nor is it using common sense with that over-simplistic idea that 70 follows the number 69. God's Word according to Its written timelines can have time gaps with fulfillment of prophecy (Lesson on that further below for those interested). Such is the case with the 70th week of Daniel's prophecy. 69 weeks have already been fulfilled today, the final 70th week has not yet. And that's also easy... to know from Daniel 9 through 11, because Daniel 9 gives all the things that have to be done in order to complete... that prophecy. They certainly were NOT fulfilled in 70 A.D, that's for certain.

Naw, I've already covered that Daniel 9 Scripture well enough in my prior posts. Not going there again. Your problem if you want to avoid my coverage of it.


For those interested about timeline gaps in God's Word, here's a major example:


Luke 4:16-21
16 And He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up: and, as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
17 And there was delivered unto Him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when He had opened the book, He found the place where it was written,
18 "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord."
20 And He closed the book, and He gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on Him.
21 And He began to say unto them, "This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears."
(KJV)

Christ read a section of Isaiah 61, stopped, closed the Book, and then said that, "This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears."

NOTICE where He stopped reading in Isaiah 61...

Isaiah 61:1-4
1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

That very last phrase of, "...and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;", He did NOT read. It's simple then, that part in red was NOT fulfilled at the time of His first coming. It's not for His first coming. It's for His SECOND COMING, which is still FUTURE to us today.

Several of the next verses are for that future time also, after Christ's future second coming...


Isaiah 3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that He might be glorified.
4 And they shall build the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations, and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations.
(KJV)


Christ's second coming has not happenned yet today, and it's been how long ago since His first coming? Well, using Ussher's chronology, our Lord Jesus was crucified in 29 A.D., and His Ministry began 3 years before that, so subtract 26 A.D. from 2013 A.D. (today). It's been 1,987 years since that section of Isaiah 61 was fulfilled at His first coming. The last part in red bold has still YET to be fulfilled today. We are still waiting... for Christ's second coming back to this earth where He ascended from, as per Acts 1. And when His future second coming does... happen, only then will Daniel's 70th week be fulfilled, and not before.

 

[Rex]

I see you have no verses to offer on the subject, and again your persistence in leading this thread down the rat hole of your own making and me along with it.

Christ's second coming has not happenned yet today, and it's been how
long ago since His first coming? Well, using Ussher's chronology, our
Lord Jesus was crucified in 29 A.D., and His Ministry began 3 years
before that, so subtract 26 A.D. from 2013 A.D. (today). It's been 1,987
years since that section of Isaiah 61 was fulfilled at His first
coming. The last part in red bold has still YET to be fulfilled today.
We are still waiting... for Christ's second coming back to this earth
where He ascended from, as per Acts 1. And when His future second coming
does... happen, only then will Daniel's 70th week be fulfilled, and not
before.

Hello macfly I never said Christ second coming has happened that's your own confused self ego that can't help but add things that I never mentioned or believe to continue the baseless defense of your understanding in light of what the NT says about the subject.

Your a hopeless manipulator / troll
You can't even properly express yourself in a simple conversation without adding things that were never said on top of not being able to follow the topic and make a case. Your like some nut on a street corner that no matter what you say in relationship to the topic all they can do is simple repeat the talking point written on their cardboard sign, in other words you have no case against what I have said, westboro baptist comes to mind, Your theology is nothing new its taught all across the nation, watch for the new temple and the unbelieving Jews nether of which Jesus had any interest in during his time with the disciples, but some how Christians today believe this to be the center of Jesus ministry. A new house of God blaspheming Jesus Christ and his sacrifice.

So tell me mr prophesy when did Jesus retract his declaration in Matthew 23:38 when did Jesus recant this JUDGMENT?


The naos of the temple was the holy of holies where the presents of God was. Paul tells us we are now the naos not some building that Jesus declared DESOLATE
It's the fulfillment of Jer 31:31-34

 

[veteran]

I see you have no verses to offer on the subject, and again your persistence in leading this thread down the rat hole of your own making and me along with it.



Hello macfly I never said Christ second coming has happened that's your own confused self ego that can't help but add things that I never mentioned or believe to continue the baseless defense of your understanding in light of what the NT says about the subject.

Your a hopeless manipulator
You can't even properly express yourself in a simple conversation without adding things that were never said on top of not being able to follow the topic and make a case. Your like some nut on a street corner that no matter what you say in relationship to the topic all they can do is simple repeat the talking point written on their cardboard sign, in other words you have no case against what I have said, westboro baptist comes to mind, Your theology is nothing new its taught all across the nation, watch for the new temple and the unbelieving Jews nether of which Jesus had any interest in during his time with the disciples, but some how Christians today believe this to be the center of Jesus ministry. A new house of God blaspheming Jesus Christ and his sacrifice.

So tell me mr prophesy when did Jesus retract his declaration in Matthew 23:38 when did Jesus recant this JUDGMENT?


The naos of the temple was the holy of holies where the presents of God was. Paul tells us we are now the naos not some building that Jesus declared DESOLATE
It's the fulfillment of Jer 31:31-34

You must be... blind as a bat!

If you don't repent from that false doctrine you're on that says the events of Matthew 24 were fulfilled in 70 A.D., then you put yourself in danger when the coming pseudo-Christ does show up telling you he is The Christ.

 

[Rex]

The troll has no comment on the closing question or statement I made

So tell me mr prophesy when did Jesus retract his declaration in Matthew 23:38 when did Jesus recant this JUDGMENT?


The naos of the temple was the holy of holies where the presents of God was. Paul tells us we are now the naos not some building that Jesus declared DESOLATE
It's the fulfillment of Jer 31:31-34

 

[IAmAWitness]

So what your saying is you have no reply to the NT teachings as i presented them, you have no place to take a stand from, in other words you don't have a temple verse.

And your right as you can see from my signature, It's not my job to open peoples eyes, it's my job to provide the opportunity.

I choose not to respond, not because I don't have a response, but because I choose to remand you to the ignorance you're content immersing yourself in. You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to my facts. You started this conversation Rex and I am not taking the bait. I will not have this discussion with you because you won't change your mind and I won't either. Hence it would be a waste of time for the both of us to have the discussion.

Then Paul, Jesus and the rest of the Gospel writers must be stupid as well for using two words to describe the temple.

Either Rex is correct, or if he is not correct, then Jesus and his stupid disciples were just stupid.

Whiny bastard.

 

[Rex]

Sanctioned what? Still telling lies aren't you? You never read anywhere in my posts where I said God sanctioned a literal temple in Jerusalem for the last days prior to Christ's return.

By making that false claim you only show you're true colors here, i.e., that you're a liar.
does... happen, only then will Daniel's 70th week be fulfilled, and not before.

Thats what 2 Thes 2 says veteran. the temple of God

4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

So what your saying is you read and see what suits you in this verse. That why I say it can never be called a temple of God even If the Jews rebuild it.
And buy the way your a freak, apparently you will say anything including lieing about what you have said, heres your temple statement.

Instead, I've always taught that phrase means a LITERAL PHYSICAL temple standing in Jerusalem for the last days, with that false one Paul mentions there coming to literally sit in it causing false worship.

Paul was speaking of a literal PHYSICAL TEMPLE standing in Jerusalem for that false one of 2 Thess.2:4 coming to sit in playing God for the last days.

So your ignoring what Paul said, and at every opportunity you create an opportunity to call me a lier or I'm telling lies when in reality it's the way you choose to read and comprehend. Your an impossible freak, you intentional make it impossible to have a conversation with you. I haven't lied about anything here, we differ in opinion but I don't falsely others of lieing nor do I need to lie.

I choose not to respond, not because I don't have a response, but because I choose to remand you to the ignorance you're content immersing yourself in. You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to my facts. You started this conversation Rex and I am not taking the bait. I will not have this discussion with you because you won't change your mind and I won't either. Hence it would be a waste of time for the both of us to have the discussion.



Either Rex is correct, or if he is not correct, then Jesus and his stupid disciples were just stupid.

Whiny bastard.

So you simply use veterans tactics of name calling, and don't give me that I can prove you wrong but wouldn't business, all you prophesy freaks will argue with one another for weeks. The point is you don't have a temple leg to stand on or to bring to the table and you know it.