Who are the 144,000?

[David in NJ]

The 144,000 number is literal. And the Rev.7 Scripture explains that, even revealing 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel, pointing directly to the 'seed' of Israel.

But some folks love to pump themselves up with thinking they are going to be among those 144,000 even though they were not born of the seed of Israel.

I personally have no problem with that 144,000 being only about the seed of Israel, because I well know that God chose a specific 'seed' to be keepers of His Truth and The Gospel of Jesus Christ. Just because the remnant that rejected Jesus that are called JEWS doesn't mean there's no other seed of the children of Israel, because the ten tribes of Israel were not known as Jews.

I would be happy just to be allowed in Christ's future Kingdom on earth. Isaiah says we will plant vineyards and build houses. So it's best to not try and modify what that Rev.7 Scripture clearly states just to satisfy a personal whim.

The Twelve Tribes of Israel in Heaven speak of the Body of Christ.

The 'specific seed' that are to be keepers of His Truth is defined in Scripture - G/John, Romans, Galatians, Ephesians, 1&2 Peter, 1 John

Galatians ch3

God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.”
So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.

Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one,
“And to your Seed,” who is Christ. And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ

For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[Davy]

The Twelve Tribes of Israel in Heaven speak of the Body of Christ.

The 'specific seed' that are to be keepers of His Truth is defined in Scripture - G/John, Romans, Galatians, Ephesians, 1&2 Peter, 1 John

Galatians ch3

God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.”
So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.

Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one,
“And to your Seed,” who is Christ. And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ

For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Being saved and allowed in Christ's future Kingdom AT THE FUTURE NEW HEAVENS AND A NEW EARTH is one thing, but being of the 144,000 of the 'SEED' of Israel that will then serve Him at His table is another matter.

 

[David in NJ]

Being saved and allowed in Christ's future Kingdom AT THE FUTURE NEW HEAVENS AND A NEW EARTH is one thing, but being of the 144,000 of the 'SEED' of Israel that will then serve Him at His table is another matter.

Do you believe what is written in Galatians that there is only One SEED that make up 'Abraham's Seed' = the sons of God?

 

[David in NJ]

They are a group of Jewish men who will be sealed with the "seal of the Living God" by an angel just after the rapture of the church.

Much love!

Not really - keep reading and studying Scripture

 

[marks]

Not really - keep reading and studying Scripture

Rather, read, and believe what you read.



Good morning brother!

Much love!

 

[David in NJ]

Rather, read, and believe what you read.



Good morning brother!

Much love!

How are you doing, Today = while it is still Today = Hear His Voice= AMEN and AMEN

Are we not this = "As you come to Him, the living stone, rejected by men but chosen and precious in God’s sight,
you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ."

Are we not this = "But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, to proclaim the virtues of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light.
Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy".

Now keep studying, and praying and walking in the 'holy priesthood' to which you were Called into by the Blood of the LORD Jesus Christ

 

[Davy]

Do you believe what is written in Galatians that there is only One SEED that make up 'Abraham's Seed' = the sons of God?

I believe what Apostle Paul said of course, but it's not what YOU are inferring.


God thru Apostle Paul actually already answered your wonderings about His election of the 'seed' of Israel...

Rom 3:1-4
3 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?

2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, 'That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.'
KJV

 

[Davy]

The Twelve Tribes of Israel in Heaven speak of the Body of Christ.

You're making that up, where is that written in God's Word? None have received the rewards from Christ Jesus just yet, for that won't happen until He returns. And the Rev.7 Scripture with the four angels to hold back the four winds until the God's servants are 'sealed'... is FOR WHAT PURPOSE, because I don't think you have a clue why?

The 'specific seed' that are to be keepers of His Truth is defined in Scripture - G/John, Romans, Galatians, Ephesians, 1&2 Peter, 1 John

Cannon fodder, you haven't given us specific Scripture to prove that, thus by that statement you are trying to justify what you say by only quoting whole Books, which is a cop out when it comes to being able to teach God's Word with authority from Christ Jesus.

Galatians ch3

God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.”
So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.

Of course that's true and is written by Paul, but that's not what the discussion has been about, so you just took a left turn to la, la land, off the subject.

Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one,
“And to your Seed,” who is Christ. And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ

Yeah, and there's a lot MORE written in the Old Testament about that. Those in Christ are considered the children of Abraham because we have believed on the Gospel Promise like Abraham did, and it was counted to Abraham as righteousness. Yeah, I know all about that, both from Paul in Romans 4 and Galatians 3, AND... in Genesis about Abraham, even about Lord Jesus as Melchizedek Who brought Abraham "bread and wine" and blessed him. Let's see, just what was it that Lord Jesus offered His Apostles at the last supper to represent His body and blood?

For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Thing is though, that STILL DOES NOT DELETE GOD'S PROMISES TO HIS CHOSEN SEED OF ISRAEL. There is NO such thing as a GENTILE ONLY CHURCH.

 

[David in NJ]

I believe what Apostle Paul said of course, but it's not what YOU are inferring.


God thru Apostle Paul actually already answered your wonderings about His election of the 'seed' of Israel...

Rom 3:1-4
3 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?

2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, 'That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.'
KJV

Selective scripture applied for your pleasure...........perhaps

i SEE you left out where the Apostle Paul was leading us to.....Romans 3:9-20

What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.

10As it is written:

“There is none righteous, no, not one;
11There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.
12They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one.”
13“Their throat is an open tomb;
With their tongues they have practiced deceit”;
“The poison of asps is under their lips”;
14“Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness.”
15“Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16Destruction and misery are in their ways;
17And the way of peace they have not known.”
18“There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

19Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

 

[David in NJ]

You're making that up, where is that written in God's Word? None have received the rewards from Christ Jesus just yet, for that won't happen until He returns. And the Rev.7 Scripture with the four angels to hold back the four winds until the God's servants are 'sealed'... is FOR WHAT PURPOSE, because I don't think you have a clue why?


Cannon fodder, you haven't given us specific Scripture to prove that, thus by that statement you are trying to justify what you say by only quoting whole Books, which is a cop out when it comes to being able to teach God's Word with authority from Christ Jesus.



Of course that's true and is written by Paul, but that's not what the discussion has been about, so you just took a left turn to la, la land, off the subject.




Yeah, and there's a lot MORE written in the Old Testament about that. Those in Christ are considered the children of Abraham because we have believed on the Gospel Promise like Abraham did, and it was counted to Abraham as righteousness. Yeah, I know all about that, both from Paul in Romans 4 and Galatians 3, AND... in Genesis about Abraham, even about Lord Jesus as Melchizedek Who brought Abraham "bread and wine" and blessed him. Let's see, just what was it that Lord Jesus offered His Apostles at the last supper to represent His body and blood?




Thing is though, that STILL DOES NOT DELETE GOD'S PROMISES TO HIS CHOSEN SEED OF ISRAEL. There is NO such thing as a GENTILE ONLY CHURCH.

FIRST you should know this = i never said a Gentile only church = that is the lie of 'pre-trib' rapture

Second you need to know this - 1 Peter chapter 2

Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious, you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. Therefore it is also contained in the Scripture,

“Behold, I lay in Zion
A chief cornerstone, elect, precious,
And he who believes on Him will by no means be put to shame.”

Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient,

“The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone,”
and
“A stone of stumbling
And a rock of offense.”
They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed.

But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;
who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy.

 

[Davy]

Selective scripture applied for your pleasure...........perhaps

i SEE you left out where the Apostle Paul was leading us to.....Romans 3:9-20

What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.

10As it is written:

“There is none righteous, no, not one;
11There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.
12They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one.”
13“Their throat is an open [d]tomb;
With their tongues they have practiced deceit”;
“The poison of asps is under their lips”;
14“Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness.”
15“Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16Destruction and misery are in their ways;
17And the way of peace they have not known.”
18“There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

19Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become [e]guilty before God. 20Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

You obviously don't even understand the very Scripture by Paul of how God has NOT cast away His chosen people. How full of bitter and gal you appear.

Rom 11:1-5
11 I say then, Hath God cast away His people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

2 God hath not cast away His people which He foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,

3 'Lord, they have killed Thy prophets, and digged down Thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.'

4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? 'I have reserved to Myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.'

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
KJV

 

[Davy]

FIRST you should know this = i never said a Gentile only church = that is the lie of 'pre-trib' rapture

Second you need to know this - 1 Peter chapter 2

Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious, you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. Therefore it is also contained in the Scripture,

“Behold, I lay in Zion
A chief cornerstone, elect, precious,
And he who believes on Him will by no means be put to shame.”

Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient,

“The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone,”
and
“A stone of stumbling
And a rock of offense.”
They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed.

But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;
who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy.

Once again, you show you don't know what God's Word shows, but you only PERSONALLY USE THE VERSES YOU LIKE, when you don't really know them. What Peter said about "a holy nation" of priests and kings was FIRST GIVEN TO ISRAEL BY GOD PER THE OLD TESTAMENT... AND IT IS TO CONTINUE ALL THE WAY INTO CHRIST'S FUTURE KINGDOM AT HIS RETURN...

Deut 14:2
2 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto Himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.
KJV

Ex 19:6
6 And ye shall be unto Me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
KJV

Isa 61:2-10
2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;
3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that He might be glorified.
4 And they shall build the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations, and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations.
5 And strangers shall stand and feed your flocks, and the sons of the alien shall be your plowmen and your vinedressers.
6 But ye shall be named the Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves.
7 For your shame ye shall have double; and for confusion they shall rejoice in their portion: therefore in their land they shall possess the double: everlasting joy shall be unto them.
8 For I the LORD love judgment, I hate robbery for burnt offering; and I will direct their work in truth, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them.
9 And their seed shall be known among the Gentiles, and their offspring among the people: all that see them shall acknowledge them, that they are the seed which the LORD hath blessed.
10 I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for He hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, He hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.
KJV

See, you've missed quite a lot by letting your Bible sit upon a shelf and instead making up your own doctrine. God will NEVER forget His chosen seed of Israel. And of course they too as anyone else MUST believe on Him through His Son Jesus Christ, and the majority of them as the 'founders' of the western Christian nations obviously do.

 

[David in NJ]

You obviously don't even understand the very Scripture by Paul of how God has NOT cast away His chosen people. How full of bitter and gal you appear.

Rom 11:1-5
11 I say then, Hath God cast away His people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

2 God hath not cast away His people which He foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,

3 'Lord, they have killed Thy prophets, and digged down Thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.'

4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? 'I have reserved to Myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.'

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
KJV

OH my - i'm full of bitter and gal - OH my = lol x100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

child - i love Romans ch11 concerning the Jewish people AND i love the Jewish people right here where i live and the ones who come over my house.

LOL

 

[David in NJ]

Once again, you show you don't know what God's Word shows, but you only PERSONALLY USE THE VERSES YOU LIKE, when you don't really know them. What Peter said about "a holy nation" of priests and kings was FIRST GIVEN TO ISRAEL BY GOD PER THE OLD TESTAMENT... AND IT IS TO CONTINUE ALL THE WAY INTO CHRIST'S FUTURE KINGDOM AT HIS RETURN...

Deut 14:2
2 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto Himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.
KJV

Ex 19:6
6 And ye shall be unto Me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
KJV

Isa 61:2-10
2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;
3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that He might be glorified.
4 And they shall build the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations, and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations.
5 And strangers shall stand and feed your flocks, and the sons of the alien shall be your plowmen and your vinedressers.
6 But ye shall be named the Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves.
7 For your shame ye shall have double; and for confusion they shall rejoice in their portion: therefore in their land they shall possess the double: everlasting joy shall be unto them.
8 For I the LORD love judgment, I hate robbery for burnt offering; and I will direct their work in truth, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them.
9 And their seed shall be known among the Gentiles, and their offspring among the people: all that see them shall acknowledge them, that they are the seed which the LORD hath blessed.
10 I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for He hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, He hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.
KJV

See, you've missed quite a lot by letting your Bible sit upon a shelf and instead making up your own doctrine. God will NEVER forget His chosen seed of Israel. And of course they too as anyone else MUST believe on Him through His Son Jesus Christ, and the majority of them as the 'founders' of the western Christian nations obviously do.

Poor child - you are really making fun of yourself here since i believe every word that comes from God = Holy Scripture.

Read Romans chapters 9 - 11 very carefully AND remember "God has not forgotten the people HE foreknew"

When you are done reading Romans you need to read and study Galatians and Acts

 

[amigo de christo]

Do you believe what is written in Galatians that there is only One SEED that make up 'Abraham's Seed' = the sons of God?

Yep and we know WHO that SEED IS too . THE GLORIOUS LORD CHRIST JESUS . The salvation of our souls .
Praise be to His glorious Name . never follow the all inclusive lie from the dragon that all religoins , all paths lead to GOD .
THERE IS BUT ONE WAY TO THE FATHER and it is IN THE SON ALONE . BELIEVE YE IN HIM and learn all sound biblical doctrine
whereby the lambs shall grow wise unto salvation through our faith in Christ . As i am sure you agree .
I just LOVE TO REMIND , TO POINT to the GLORIOUS LORD JESUS and to hold firm the TESTIMONY that GOD has given
of HIS SON . LEt the KING be praised .

 

[amigo de christo]

OH my - i'm full of bitter and gal - OH my = lol x100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

child - i love Romans ch11 concerning the Jewish people AND i love the Jewish people right here where i live and the ones who come over my house.

LOL

Its self serving how he seems to leave out the fact that paul was in continual sorrow for the jews .
Its also something to learn about what paul , a jew , told even the jews more than once in the book of acts .
SINCE ye count yourselves UNWORTHY of EVERLASING LIFE .
Paul , knew one , whether jew or gentile , HAD TO BELIEVE IN JESUS to be saved . HE KNEW IT well too .
And might SAVE some of them . exactly .

 

[David in NJ]

Yep and we know WHO that SEED IS too . THE GLORIOUS LORD CHRIST JESUS . The salvation of our souls .
Praise be to His glorious Name . never follow the all inclusive lie from the dragon that all religoins , all paths lead to GOD .
THERE IS BUT ONE WAY TO THE FATHER and it is IN THE SON ALONE . BELIEVE YE IN HIM and learn all sound biblical doctrine
whereby the lambs shall grow wise unto salvation through our faith in Christ . As i am sure you agree .
I just LOVE TO REMIND , TO POINT to the GLORIOUS LORD JESUS and to hold firm the TESTIMONY that GOD has given
of HIS SON . LEt the KING be praised .

We have to remind each other of the Kingdom of the Love of His Dear Son by which we have entered thru His Blood.

There is only One DOOR by which man can enter Heaven = the LORD Jesus Christ

 

[David in NJ]

Its self serving how he seems to leave out the fact that paul was in continual sorrow for the jews .
Its also something to learn about what paul , a jew , told even the jews more than once in the book of acts .
SINCE ye count yourselves UNWORTHY of EVERLASING LIFE .
Paul , knew one , whether jew or gentile , HAD TO BELIEVE IN JESUS to be saved . HE KNEW IT well too .
And might SAVE some of them . exactly .

i live in a Jewish community which i am friends with many including the rabbis that invite my family and i over for dinner many times.

 

[amigo de christo]

even john who was a jew and wrote to the church consisting of those who beleived , whether jew or gentile .
made sure to tell them all . IF one believes NOT the TESTIMONY that GOD has given of HIS SON
SPECT WRATH . they are actually calling GOD A LIAR .
THEY all knew something . THE FLESH PROFITS NOTHING . whether jew or gentile . YE MUST BELIEVE IN JESUS .
that which is born after the flesh is flesh , that which is born after the SPIRIT IS of the SPIRIT .
THEY actually believed THE VERY CHRIST JESUS HIMSELF about all things HE DID say and teach .
This same JESUS told the UNBELIEVING JEWS , YE shall die in your sins if ye BELIEVE NOT that I AM HE .
He also told them , YE are of your father the devil . Had you actually BELIEVED MOSES you would have BELIEVED ME
for HE WROTE of me . This same JESUS told the jews who had not repented to beleive on HIM
IT WILL be worse on the day of judgment for YOU than it ever was for sodom .
WE BETTER POINT TO JESUS and stop giving out false hope . BELIEVE YE IN HIM .

 

[amigo de christo]

We have to remind each other of the Kingdom of the Love of His Dear Son by which we have entered thru His Blood.

There is only One DOOR by which man can enter Heaven = the LORD Jesus Christ

yes we do , cause sadly most churches NO LONGER seem to do this at all . THEY bought a lie
that leads to perditon and call it love . ONLY satan would have sold such a lie that TROD the dire necessity
of having to BELIEVE IN CHRIST under foot and called it love . IT AINT LOVE and it sure aint FROM GOD either
Rather it comes from the dark one who desires nothing but death to the peoples and worship for himself .