Who are the 144,000?

[keithr]

The 144,000 were gathered from the first century onward,

That's not what it says in Revelation. In chapter 6 the resurrected church is up in heaven watching as Jesus opens the 7 seals on the scroll, ending with "The kings of the earth, the princes, the commanding officers, the rich, the strong, and every slave and free person, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains". Then in chapter 7 it says, "After this ...", then the 144,000 Jews are sealed. Therefore that is a still future event; none of the 144,000 have lived during the Gospel Age, going back to the first century AD.

Many among the elect are females whilst on earth, but they are called "sons" even though their spiritual resurrection means losing all their earthly identity...no gender, nationality or social status will identify the144,000 "joint-heirs" once they are in heaven. They will be like the angels in that respect.

You are confusing the resurrected church with the 144,000 Jews. The 144,000 are men (Revelation 14:4 tells us that the 144,000 "are those who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins") and will remain human, living on the earth. There is no mention of them being changed to spirit beings and living in heaven.

No wonder Christendom rejects the idea of a ruling class in heaven who are specially chosen....it means that the majority of mankind including all who identify as Christians, will not go to heaven, because you have to be "called" by God for that role. (Heb 3:1) Only those taken into the "new covenant" will rule with Christ as a "royal priesthood and a holy nation" in heaven. "Kings and Priests" who will rule with Christ.....all personally chosen by God so that humans will have the best rulers this earth has ever seen.

Revelation tells us that the church will be resurrected and be in heaven with Jesus, serving as priests and kings in God's kingdom (joint heirs with Jesus). Then the 144,000 Jews are sealed and protected and preserved during the Great Tribulation on the earth - Revelation 9, "(4) They were told that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree, but only those people who don’t have God’s seal on their foreheads. (5) They were given power, not to kill them, but to torment them for five months. ... (18) By these three plagues were one third of mankind killed: by the fire, the smoke, and the sulfur, which proceeded out of their mouths".

In Revelation 7 it tells us of "a great multitude, which no man could count, out of every nation and of all tribes, peoples, and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands", and that "These are those who came out of the great tribulation. They washed their robes, and made them white in the Lamb’s blood. Therefore they are before the throne of God, they serve him day and night in his temple". So there will be an inumerable number of people who will have faith in Jesus during the Great Tribulation, who will be rewarded with an eternity in heaven. They will have missed out on becoming joint heirs with Jesus and becoming adopted sons of God (having a similar immortal spirit nature as Jesus has), and they won't have a priestly and kingly role in the kingdom, but they will nevertheless be with God in heaven, serving God in his temple. Jesus, the "Lamb who is in the middle of the throne shepherds them, and leads them to springs of life-giving waters" - could these be the other fold that Jesus spoke about? John 10:16, "I have other sheep, which are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will hear my voice. They will become one flock with one shepherd".

Revelation 21:2-4 refers to mankind enjoying the benefits of Kingdom rule...Everything will go back to the way it was meant to be....
The "height of absurdity" is the belief that all Christians are heaven bound....why did God put us on earth if he was only going to take us to heaven? He already has a very large family of spirit sons, serving him in heaven.
Why did he put humans on earth?

There will be millions of people, Jews and all non Christians that have lived during the last 6,000 years, who will be resurrected to life during the Millennial Age, including those who survive the Great Tribulation but did not have faith in Jesus, who will have the opportunity to live forever on the earth as humans. These will be who the resurrected church will rule over, under the leadership of Jesus, during the 1,000 years (Revelation 5:10, "made us kings and priests to our God, and we will reign on the earth”; Revelation 20:4 - "They lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years"). It is God's plan for there to always be human members of His family living on the earth, as well as spiritual members of His family living in heaven.

 

[marks]

what has the sun coming up got to do with what we are talking about marks?

Jeremiah 31:35-36 KJV
35) Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
36) If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

Much love!

 

[quietthinker]

Jeremiah 31:35-36 KJV
35) Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
36) If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

Much love!

Old Mate, the seed of Israel are God's people.....and who do we think are God's people?
We gotta break out from an ethnically/ geographically bounded perspective......thats what Jesus and Paul's mission was.

 

[marks]

Old Mate, the seed of Israel are

Israel's children.

Much love!

 

[quietthinker]

Israel's children.

Much love!

hmmmm. I can see you choose to stick to the idea that 'Israel' consists only of a particular ethnicity.
I am of the view that Salvation is for the seed of Adam.....not just the literal seed of Jacob......and I don't subscribe to the idea that there are different 'plans' for different people at different times.....that becomes a Pandora's box and a messy one at that.

 

[marks]

hmmmm. I can see you choose to stick to the idea

Choose to stick to . . . I suppose as you choose to stick to your idea . . .

that 'Israel' consists only of a particular ethnicity.

Yes, the OT uses very clear language, and I believe the promises of God.

I am of the view that Salvation is for the seed of Adam

And I'm not??

Interesting supposition, but incorrect.

.....not just the literal seed of Jacob......

See above . . .

and I don't subscribe to the idea that there are different 'plans' for different people at different times.....that becomes a Pandora's box and a messy one at that.

Are you to build an ark? Do you offer sacrifices? Are you to abstain from eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?

I thought not.

Much love!

 

[quietthinker]

Are you to build an ark? Do you offer sacrifices? Are you to abstain from eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?

What are you referring to.....what connections are you making to ask these questions?

 

[quietthinker]

Yes, the OT uses very clear language, and I believe the promises of God.

then hear what it's trying to tell you and don't be like a deluded Jewish Rabbi and miss the messiah.

 

[Aunty Jane]

That's not what it says in Revelation. In chapter 6 the resurrected church is up in heaven watching as Jesus opens the 7 seals on the scroll, ending with "The kings of the earth, the princes, the commanding officers, the rich, the strong, and every slave and free person, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains". Then in chapter 7 it says, "After this ...", then the 144,000 Jews are sealed. Therefore that is a still future event; none of the 144,000 have lived during the Gospel Age, going back to the first century AD.

I think you are seeing way too many groups here. Who is "the resurrected church"? And why does the 144,000 have to be a separate group?
In Rev 7 there are only two....one seen with Christ in heaven, and the other who come out of the great tribulation
What is the big picture from the Bible's perspective?

What did God intend for humankind in the beginning? Was there a need for a savior, or a kingdom, or even a priesthood?
Was there a need for a long list of laws, for sacrifices or a Temple? Did Adam and Eve have any of those things in the beginning....what prospects were open to them? And what kind of life was ahead of them if only they had simply obeyed God's instructions?

When satan influenced Adam and his wife to sin, how did God respond?
He set up the means to undo what the devil had accomplished, but with the long term view in mind.
God could have simply put the rebels to death, but all that would have proven is that God is more powerful.....satan did not challenge God's power, he challenged his Sovereignty.....his right to put reasonable limits on the the free will he had gifted to all his intelligent creatures.

By giving them the autonomy that satan had suggested would make them "like God", an object lesson was initiated that would include all of Adam's offspring, most of whom would have lived and died in ignorance, and so these would have their lives restored once the lesson was concluded. It would prove beyond a shadow of doubt, that man cannot rule himself independently of his Creator....he must live according to "every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God." (Matthew 4:4; Deut 8:3)

You are confusing the resurrected church with the 144,000 Jews.

The 144,000 are not literal Jews any more than "the Israel of God" were all literal Jews. (Gal 6:16; Rom 2:28-29) God is done with the literal nation of Israel whom he abandoned to the world (Matt 23:37-39)....look at them now and see what God said about them way back before the birth of Jesus, it still applies even today.....
Isaiah 1:15...
"When you spread out your hands,
I will hide my eyes from you;
even though you make many prayers,
I will not listen;
your hands are full of blood."

This goes for Christendom too.....those whom Jesus said would be "peacemakers"....NOT "peacekeepers" with weapons.
Romans 12:17-21...
"Never pay back evil for evil to anyone. Respect what is right in the sight of all men. 18 If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men. 19 Never take your own revenge, beloved, but leave room for the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. 20 “But if your enemy is hungry, feed him, and if he is thirsty, give him a drink; for in so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.” 21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good." (NASB)

We are NOT to "return evil for evil" and yet that is all we see. This is apparently all too difficult for those governments in the world who claim to be "Christians". They can in good conscience, behave like the unbelievers they want to have a war with. Russia and the Ukraine are classic examples of Christendom's abject failure to BE the genuine Christians they claim to be. (Isaiah 2:2-4) Both are under the influence of their respective "Orthodox" churches.....who seem to be more concerned about politics than making peace with their "brothers" and obeying their supposed Master, Jesus Christ. (Matthew 5:43-44)

 

[Aunty Jane]

The 144,000 are men (Revelation 14:4 tells us that the 144,000 "are those who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins") and will remain human, living on the earth. There is no mention of them being changed to spirit beings and living in heaven.

This 'gender and virginity' are not literal. The lack of defilement is spiritual, just as God accused his wayward nation of adultery when they adopted the worship of other gods....and formed alliances with pagan nations. (Jeremiah 3:8-9; Jeremiah 9:2; James 4:4)

Where does it say that the 144,000 will live on earth?
Revelation 14:1-5
"Then I saw, and look! the Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who have his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads."
Where is this "Mount Zion"? It is not in literal earthly Jerusalem....Paul says it is in heaven. (Hebrews 12:22; Rev 21:2) The 144,000 are seen in heaven with Jesus.

"2 I heard a sound coming out of heaven like the sound of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder; and the sound that I heard was like singers who accompany themselves by playing on their harps. 3 And they are singing what seems to be a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders, and no one was able to master that song except the 144,000, who have been bought from the earth. 4 These are the ones who did not defile themselves with women; in fact, they are virgins. These are the ones who keep following the Lamb no matter where he goes. These were bought from among mankind as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb, 5 and no deceit was found in their mouths; they are without blemish."

Revelation tells us that the church will be resurrected and be in heaven with Jesus, serving as priests and kings in God's kingdom (joint heirs with Jesus). Then the 144,000 Jews are sealed and protected and preserved during the Great Tribulation on the earth

Again...who is "the church"? if not the 144,000 who will rule with Jesus in heaven? They are 'priests and kings' for one purpose only....reigning with Christ for a thousand years.....so this is the "kingdom of God" in heaven with all the "saints" in their places ready to take the redeemed human race back into reconciliation with God. These, with Christ as their teacher, will bring us all back to God's first purpose, which he never abandoned.

In Revelation 7 it tells us of "a great multitude, which no man could count, out of every nation and of all tribes, peoples, and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands", and that "These are those who came out of the great tribulation. They washed their robes, and made them white in the Lamb’s blood. Therefore they are before the throne of God, they serve him day and night in his temple". So there will be an inumerable number of people who will have faith in Jesus during the Great Tribulation, who will be rewarded with an eternity in heaven.

These are the "other sheep" who are not of "the heavenly calling" but to God, are "one flock" whilst they remain on earth.....this great unnumbered "multitude" are contrasted with the finite group pictured standing with Christ in heaven......this crowd will live on earth as the nucleus of the "new earth" under Christ's rulership.....and they will be joined at some point by all those sleeping in their graves, waiting to be resurrected to start their lives afresh in a completely new world. A place where no evil will be permitted.

 

[Aunty Jane]

They will have missed out on becoming joint heirs with Jesus and becoming adopted sons of God (having a similar immortal spirit nature as Jesus has), and they won't have a priestly and kingly role in the kingdom, but they will nevertheless be with God in heaven, serving God in his temple.

Since God's temple is in heaven, on "heavenly Mount Zion", that might be a little difficult.....why would those chosen by God to rule with Christ be accompanied by those who have no purpose in going to heaven at all? It was never God's original intention to take ANY humans to heaven....it was Adam's sin that made that necessary. God chose some to assist Christ in administering the benefits of the Kingdom for those to whom he held out everlasting life on earth.......which was never intended to be a training ground for heaven.....it was designed by our Creator to be our permanent home....a place to live in paradise conditions forever, enjoying creation in peace and happiness, just as God purposed in the beginning. We are to represent the Creator, endowed with his qualities, to care for all that God had made here. It would have been a wonderful life.....if only the humans could have obeyed God's simple command....if only the devil had not chosen to abuse his free will.

Living forever in paradise...who could want more? Eve apparently did, and she sacrificed her earthly paradise for the freedom to pursue something that was made to seem better than what she had.
Why do some insist that they have to go to heaven to enjoy a great life? If you knew that God was going to provide the means to bring us back to paradise on earth, would that be so terrible? I for one would love it!!...and we would have the best government humankind has ever seen!

You don't seem to have a big picture that fits in with what the Bible teaches, overall. Paradise was lost by the first rebels......a redeemer was sent to buy back what Adam lost so that God's original purpose could be fulfilled. (Isaiah 55:11) Its a simple story if people just stop complicating it with fabrications of their own imaginations.

There will be millions of people, Jews and all non Christians that have lived during the last 6,000 years, who will be resurrected to life during the Millennial Age, including those who survive the Great Tribulation but did not have faith in Jesus, who will have the opportunity to live forever on the earth as humans.

The Revelation agrees with you in part....
"And I heard the number of those who were sealed, 144,000, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel. . . . After this I saw, and look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands. 10 And they keep shouting with a loud voice, saying: “Salvation we owe to our God, who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb. . . . .In response one of the elders said to me: “These who are dressed in the white robes, who are they and where did they come from?” 14 So right away I said to him: “My lord, you are the one who knows.” And he said to me: “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

These survivors of the great tribulation are disciples of Christ, attributing salvation to God and the Lamb....having washed their sinful garments in the blood of Christ, they are the "sheep". But the "goats" will not survive that day of judgment with Jesus promising them the same fate that awaits the devil and his hordes. (Matthew 25:41, 46)

"15 That is why they are before the throne of God, and they are rendering him sacred service day and night in his temple; and the One seated on the throne will spread his tent over them. 16 They will hunger no more nor thirst anymore, neither will the sun beat down on them nor any scorching heat, 17 because the Lamb, who is in the midst of the throne, will shepherd them and will guide them to springs of waters of life. And God will wipe out every tear from their eyes.”

Rev 21:2-4 speaks about the same blessings brought to "mankind"....not to those in heaven.

These will be who the resurrected church will rule over, under the leadership of Jesus, during the 1,000 years (Revelation 5:10, "made us kings and priests to our God, and we will reign on the earth”; Revelation 20:4 - "They lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years"). It is God's plan for there to always be human members of His family living on the earth, as well as spiritual members of His family living in heaven.

And he demonstrated in the very beginning that he made humans to live on earth and spirit beings to inhabit the heavenly realm.....
Both were to remain in their own realms forever.
What happens at the end of the thousand years of Christ's rulership? Once all things have been brought back into reconciliation Jesus hands the reins back to his Father to resume his position as Universal Sovereign over all creation.

1 Corinthians 15:24-28...
"After that the end will come when he will turn the Kingdom over to God the Father, having put down all enemies of every kind. 25 For Christ will be King until he has defeated all his enemies, 26 including the last enemy—death. This too must be defeated and ended. 27 For the rule and authority over all things has been given to Christ by his Father; except, of course, Christ does not rule over the Father himself, who gave him this power to rule. 28 When Christ has finally won the battle against all his enemies, then he, the Son of God, will put himself also under his Father’s orders, so that God who has given him the victory over everything else will be utterly supreme." (TLB)

 

[keithr]

I think you are seeing way too many groups here. Who is "the resurrected church"?

The resurrected church is all those Christians who are resurrectred in the first resurrection, including those that are raptured (like an instant death and resurrection). The 144,000 are clearly not a part of the resurrected church.

And why does the 144,000 have to be a separate group?

They just are a separate group! I think you have said that they are a separate group from the majority of Christians, seemingly only a very small percentage of Christians who have a heavenly calling, as opposed to the majority of Christians who don't have a heavenly calling. I don't believe that. Ephesians 4 (WEB):

(4) There is one body, and one Spirit, even as you also were called in one hope of your calling;​

(5) one Lord, one faith, one baptism,​

(6) one God and Father of all, who is over all, and through all, and in us all.​

In Rev 7 there are only two....one seen with Christ in heaven, and the other who come out of the great tribulation

That is incorrect - the opposite of what it says! Those that come out of the Great Tribulation are up in heaven:

(9) After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude, which no man could count, out of every nation and of all tribes, peoples, and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands.​

(10) They cried with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation be to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!”​

(11) All the angels were standing around the throne, the elders, and the four living creatures; and they fell on their faces before his throne, and worshiped God,​

(15) Therefore they are before the throne of God, they serve him day and night in his temple. He who sits on the throne will spread his tabernacle over them.​

Whereas the 144,000 are on the earth:

(1) After this, I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, so that no wind would blow on the earth, or on the sea, or on any tree.​

(2) I saw another angel ascend from the sunrise, having the seal of the living God. He cried with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was given to harm the earth and the sea,​

(3) saying, “Don’t harm the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, until we have sealed the bondservants of our God on their foreheads!”​

 

[keithr]

Where does it say that the 144,000 will live on earth?
Revelation 14:1-5
"Then I saw, and look! the Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who have his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads."
Where is this "Mount Zion"? It is not in literal earthly Jerusalem....Paul says it is in heaven. (Hebrews 12:22; Rev 21:2) The 144,000 are seen in heaven with Jesus.

In chapter 7 they are on the earth, which is why the angels are told not to harm the earth, and those on it, until the 144,000 have been sealed.

In chapter 9 they are still on the earth:

(4) They were told that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree, but only those people who don’t have God’s seal on their foreheads.​

In chapter 14 they are on the earth, on Mount Zion - yes the actual mount in Jerusalem in Israel, on the earth:

(1) I saw, and behold, the Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with him a number, one hundred forty-four thousand, having his name, and the name of his Father, written on their foreheads.​

Then John hears a sound from heaven (John too is on the earth witnessing the scene). There would be no need to mention the sound was from heaven if the scene was in heaven:

(2) I heard a sound from heaven, like the sound of many waters, and like the sound of a great thunder. The sound which I heard was like that of harpists playing on their harps.​

Who has harps in heaven - the 24 elders. Revelation 5:8 (WEB):

(8) Now when he had taken the book, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each one having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.​

So the noise from heaven is coming from the 24 elders playing their harps. They are the resurrected church, up in heaven, and they sing a new song, and nobody on the earth could learn that song except the 144,000:

(3) They sing a new song before the throne, and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the one hundred forty-four thousand, those who had been redeemed out of the earth.​

(4) These are those who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are those who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These were redeemed by Jesus from among men, the first fruits to God and to the Lamb.​

While Paul refers to a heavenly Jerusalem in Hebrews 12, that is not is what is being referred to in Revelation 14. The heavenly Jerusalem is not mentioned in Revelation until chapter 21, which is descibing later events at the end of the 1,000 year reign, after all mankind and the angels have been judged:

(1) I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth have passed away, and the sea is no more.​

(2) I saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared like a bride adorned for her husband.​

Again...who is "the church"? if not the 144,000 who will rule with Jesus in heaven?

The church is more than 144,000 Jews!

They are 'priests and kings' for one purpose only....

The 144,000 are never referred to as being kings and priests.

 

[keithr]

It was never God's original intention to take ANY humans to heaven....

I disagree with that. Ephesians 1:3-14 (WEB):

(3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ;​

(4) even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and without defect before him in love;​

(5) having predestined us for adoption as children through Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his desire,​

(6) to the praise of the glory of his grace, by which he freely gave us favor in the Beloved,​

(7) in whom we have our redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,​

(8) which he made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence,​

(9) making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he purposed in him​

(10) to an administration of the fullness of the times, to sum up all things in Christ, the things in the heavens, and the things on the earth, in him;​

(11) in whom also we were assigned an inheritance, having been foreordained according to the purpose of him who does all things after the counsel of his will;​

(12) to the end that we should be to the praise of his glory, we who had before hoped in Christ.​

(13) In him you also, having heard the word of the truth, the Good News of your salvation—in whom, having also believed, you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,​

(14) who is a pledge of our inheritance, to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of his glory.​

1 Peter 1:19-20 (WEB):

(19) but with precious blood, as of a lamb without blemish or spot, the blood of Christ;​

(20) who was foreknown indeed before the foundation of the world, but was revealed in this last age for your sake,​

Or 1 Peter 1:20 (TLV):

(20) He was chosen before the foundation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.​

 

[Robert Gwin]

Who are the 144,000?​

The number 144,000 appears three times in the Book of Revelation:

• Revelation 7:3–8:

• Revelation 14:1:

• Revelation 14:3–5:

(John 10:16) . . .this fold. . .

(Romans 1:7) . . .to all those who are in Rome as God’s beloved ones, called to be holy ones:. . .

(1 Corinthians 1:2) . . .called to be holy ones. . .

(Daniel 7:27) “‘And the kingdom and the rulership and the grandeur of the kingdoms under all the heavens were given to the people who are the holy ones of the Supreme One. Their kingdom is an indefinitely lasting kingdom, and all the rulerships will serve and obey even them.’

(1 Peter 1:15) but, in accord with the Holy One who called YOU, do YOU also become holy yourselves in all [YOUR] conduct,

(Revelation 5:9-10) . . .And they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, because you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought persons for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, 10 and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”

 

[marks]

.and I don't subscribe to the idea that there are different 'plans' for different people at different times....

marks said:
Are you to build an ark? Do you offer sacrifices? Are you to abstain from eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?

Much love!

 

[marks]

then hear what it's trying to tell you and don't be like a deluded Jewish Rabbi and miss the messiah.

Ditto!! And without changing what it says to something it doesn't say.

Much love!

 

[Davy]

Who are the 144,000?​

The number 144,000 appears three times in the Book of Revelation:

• Revelation 7:3–8:

• Revelation 14:1:

• Revelation 14:3–5:

The point of Rev.7 is about the 'sealing' of God's servants prior to the last day of this world when the four winds will blow to end this present world. It is pointing to those of God's servants that go through the great tribulation at the end being 'sealed' by The Holy Spirit in prep for it.

The 144,000 represent Christ's 'very elect' from those Israelite tribes mentioned in Rev.7. They are to be 'sealed' by The Holy Spirit against deception in prep for the time of "great tribulation". (see the 'sealed' comparison of Rev.9).

The "great multitude" of Revelation 7:9 forward are shown to have been sealed for the tribulation also, and are shown having come out of it and blessed to stand before Christ and His throne, which means they were not deceived. I believe these represent the saved Gentiles.

The 144,000 represent Israelites only. They are represented as the Zadok (the Just) in Ezekiel 44 where only they are allowed to approach Christ at His table and serve Him. Ezekiel 40 through 47 shows all that will happen ON THE EARTH, with the future Millennial temple Jesus will build per Zechariah 6 as The "BRANCH".

The saved of the Gentiles will reign as kings and priests among their own peoples, as the idea of nations was always by God's creation.

 

[David in NJ]

Who are the 144,000?​

The number 144,000 appears three times in the Book of Revelation:

• Revelation 7:3–8:

• Revelation 14:1:

• Revelation 14:3–5:

The Lord Jesus is using symbolism along with literal, as He does in other parts of Revelation.

The question is = Who do the 144,000 represent?

 

[Davy]

The Lord Jesus is using symbolism along with literal, as He does in other parts of Revelation.

The question is = Who do the 144,000 represent?

The 144,000 number is literal. And the Rev.7 Scripture explains that, even revealing 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel, pointing directly to the 'seed' of Israel.

But some folks love to pump themselves up with thinking they are going to be among those 144,000 even though they were not born of the seed of Israel.

I personally have no problem with that 144,000 being only about the seed of Israel, because I well know that God chose a specific 'seed' to be keepers of His Truth and The Gospel of Jesus Christ. Just because the remnant that rejected Jesus that are called JEWS doesn't mean there's no other seed of the children of Israel, because the ten tribes of Israel were not known as Jews.

I would be happy just to be allowed in Christ's future Kingdom on earth. Isaiah says we will plant vineyards and build houses. So it's best to not try and modify what that Rev.7 Scripture clearly states just to satisfy a personal whim.