Who are the Promised Ones who shall possess the Land of God, forever?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Enoch111

Well-Known Member
May 27, 2018
17,688
15,997
113
Alberta
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
The great apostle to the Gentiles gives the reason for the withdrawal of covenant privileges from the people of Israel, or the Jews, and their bestowal on the Gentiles
Actually Paul says the opposite in Romans 11:
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27
For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Taken

APAK

Well-Known Member
Feb 4, 2018
9,151
9,869
113
Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You know i'm on your side, i've got some more videos that i don't agree with everything they say (they are partial Premill), but i think you will get some value out of them.



I do understand what you mean....I do not believe the parts of the videos concerning who these so-called Jews are of today and the pre-trib part of a physical 3rd temple and the 7 yrs concocted gig before the new heavens and the new earth. However, this could all be deliberately faked and easily staged to control the world that will really produce a tight vise around every ones' neck - economically and politically.....the Zionist Jews are very much still in control of these areas today. And especially when more and more folks are calling them out for who they really are and what their true purpose it in life. They may get desperate....

And, yes I did get value out of the Abrahamic land and people Covenants parts and pictures in the videos. It does tell the story more easily that just seeing the text.

Thanks PJ
 

Keraz

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2018
5,175
933
113
82
Thames, New Zealand
www.logostelos.info
Faith
Christian
Country
New Zealand
Actually Paul says the opposite in Romans 11:
So you are quite happy to make a Biblical anomaly?
The Israel who will all be saved, will be the Israel of God, as Paul says in Galatians 6:14-16
...the Zionist Jews are very much still in control of these areas today.
Not for very much longer.
Ezekiel 21:1-7 This is the Word of the Lord: Face toward Jerusalem and prophesy against the Land of Israel. Say to that Land: I am against you, I shall draw My sword and make away with both righteous and wicked among you. I intend to destroy both good and evil people, from the Negev, [Southern Israel] Northward, all will know that it is the Lord who has acted. All courage will fail on that Day, it is coming, it will surely take place.

This will be the Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath. There has not been any previous event, as described, in Israel. Ezekiel 20:47-48, Isaiah 22:14, Jeremiah 21:14.

The righteous and wicked alike will be killed’. Jeremiah 10:18, Amos 2:4-5

It will surely happen: the next prophesied event, which will clear the entire Middle East, thus enabling His people, the true Christian Israelites, from every race, nation and language to gather in and live in all of the holy Land. Psalms 83, Revelation 6:12-17, Isaiah 2:12-22, Joel 2:1-11.

Ezekiel 21:8-13 Prophesy: A sword is sharpened and polished, ready to kill. Should we respect the sceptre of Judah? No, the sword despises it. The sword of destruction is ready for the hand of the slaughterer. Cry aloud and lament, for testing will surely come upon My people and on all Israel’s leaders who are given over to be slain with My people. Mourn and wail, for what if the scepter of Judah does not continue?

The people currently occupying all of the Holy Land will be killed or displaced. Lament, for My people [Judah] too, will be slain. Jeremiah 12:14, Ezekiel 16:35-41, Isaiah 22:14

Ezekiel 21:14-17 Prophesy: Strike your hands together, swing the sword three times. It is the instrument of slaughter, whirling around. Their courage will fail and many will stumble and fall. Lightning flashes left and right – blocking all escape routes, terrible will be the slaughter. Then, I too, will strike My hands together, My wrath will subside. I, the Lord have spoken.

Swing the sword three times” Refers to the judgement and dispersion of Judah. 1/ Babylon. 2/ Rome. 3/ to come. Zechariah 13:7-9, Jeremiah 19:11, Matthew 21:41, Luke 19:27. Is the third ‘swing of the sword’, the Holocaust? No, because that was just the worst of many pogroms and massacres of the Jews since 70-135 AD.
 

Truth7t7

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2014
10,850
3,272
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I do understand what you mean....I do not believe the parts of the videos concerning who these so-called Jews are of today and the pre-trib part of a physical 3rd temple and the 7 yrs concocted gig before the new heavens and the new earth. However, this could all be deliberately faked and easily staged to control the world that will really produce a tight vise around every ones' neck - economically and politically.....the Zionist Jews are very much still in control of these areas today. And especially when more and more folks are calling them out for who they really are and what their true purpose it in life. They may get desperate....

And, yes I did get value out of the Abrahamic land and people Covenants parts and pictures in the videos. It does tell the story more easily that just seeing the text.

Thanks PJ
The Righteous In The Eternal Kingdom Seen Below

The promised land of inheritance will be seen in the New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, as seen in Ezekiel chapters 47-48, the "Eternal Kingdom"


Ezekiel 48:29-35KJV

29 This is the land which ye shall divide by lot unto the tribes of Israel for inheritance, and these are their portions, saith the Lord God. 30 And these are the goings out of the city on the north side, four thousand and five hundred measures. 31 And the gates of the city shall be after the names of the tribes of Israel: three gates northward; one gate of Reuben, one gate of Judah, one gate of Levi. 32 And at the east side four thousand and five hundred: and three gates; and one gate of Joseph, one gate of Benjamin, one gate of Dan. 33 And at the south side four thousand and five hundred measures: and three gates; one gate of Simeon, one gate of Issachar, one gate of Zebulun. 34 At the west side four thousand and five hundred, with their three gates; one gate of Gad, one gate of Asher, one gate of Naphtali. 35 It was round about eighteen thousand measures: and the name of the city from that day shall be, The Lord is there.

Revelation 21:10-13KJV

10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, 11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; 12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: 13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.

Ezekiel Below Is (The Eternal Kingdom) Same River And Tree Of life, Same Fruit On The Tree, Same Leaves Of The Tree For Healing/Medicine

(The Eternal Kingdom)


Ezekiel 47:12KJV
12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.

(The Eternal Kingdom)

Revelation 22:1-2KJV
1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
 
  • Like
Reactions: APAK

Truth7t7

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2014
10,850
3,272
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I do understand what you mean....I do not believe the parts of the videos concerning who these so-called Jews are of today and the pre-trib part of a physical 3rd temple and the 7 yrs concocted gig before the new heavens and the new earth. However, this could all be deliberately faked and easily staged to control the world that will really produce a tight vise around every ones' neck - economically and politically.....the Zionist Jews are very much still in control of these areas today. And especially when more and more folks are calling them out for who they really are and what their true purpose it in life. They may get desperate....

And, yes I did get value out of the Abrahamic land and people Covenants parts and pictures in the videos. It does tell the story more easily that just seeing the text.

Thanks PJ
The scripture below strongly suggest a 3rd temple and renewed animal sacrifice in Jerusalem, that will be an "Abomination" before God and the finished work of Calvary

Isaiah 66:1-4KJV
1 Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?
2 For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the Lord: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.
3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.
4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.
 

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,584
12,988
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Actually Paul says the opposite in Romans 11:
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27
For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.


Amen.
 

APAK

Well-Known Member
Feb 4, 2018
9,151
9,869
113
Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Not for very much longer.
Ezekiel 21:1-7 This is the Word of the Lord: Face toward Jerusalem and prophesy against the Land of Israel. Say to that Land: I am against you, I shall draw My sword and make away with both righteous and wicked among you. I intend to destroy both good and evil people, from the Negev, [Southern Israel] Northward, all will know that it is the Lord who has acted. All courage will fail on that Day, it is coming, it will surely take place.

This will be the Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath. There has not been any previous event, as described, in Israel. Ezekiel 20:47-48, Isaiah 22:14, Jeremiah 21:14.

The righteous and wicked alike will be killed’. Jeremiah 10:18, Amos 2:4-5

It will surely happen: the next prophesied event, which will clear the entire Middle East, thus enabling His people, the true Christian Israelites, from every race, nation and language to gather in and live in all of the holy Land. Psalms 83, Revelation 6:12-17, Isaiah 2:12-22, Joel 2:1-11.

Ezekiel 21:8-13 Prophesy: A sword is sharpened and polished, ready to kill. Should we respect the sceptre of Judah? No, the sword despises it. The sword of destruction is ready for the hand of the slaughterer. Cry aloud and lament, for testing will surely come upon My people and on all Israel’s leaders who are given over to be slain with My people. Mourn and wail, for what if the scepter of Judah does not continue?

The people currently occupying all of the Holy Land will be killed or displaced. Lament, for My people [Judah] too, will be slain. Jeremiah 12:14, Ezekiel 16:35-41, Isaiah 22:14

Ezekiel 21:14-17 Prophesy: Strike your hands together, swing the sword three times. It is the instrument of slaughter, whirling around. Their courage will fail and many will stumble and fall. Lightning flashes left and right – blocking all escape routes, terrible will be the slaughter. Then, I too, will strike My hands together, My wrath will subside. I, the Lord have spoken.

Swing the sword three times” Refers to the judgement and dispersion of Judah. 1/ Babylon. 2/ Rome. 3/ to come. Zechariah 13:7-9, Jeremiah 19:11, Matthew 21:41, Luke 19:27. Is the third ‘swing of the sword’, the Holocaust? No, because that was just the worst of many pogroms and massacres of the Jews since 70-135 AD.
Keraz: I meant in control of the areas I mentioned in the post: world economics, (and finance) and world politics.

If I were to address the land subject, and where their center is located in the Middle East, yes I would agree they will lose control of it soon. Although not for the reasons you mentioned or eluded to....
I would need to relook at those parts in Ezekiel a little more to may a better judgement though.
These (many of them) 'Jews' are the living scoffers and mockers of the Lord and God today. They carry the baton today of their Pharisee brethren and chief priests.

Good input all the same..
 
  • Like
Reactions: Reggie Belafonte

APAK

Well-Known Member
Feb 4, 2018
9,151
9,869
113
Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

As long as you know who is 'all' Israel in this scripture Taken.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Reggie Belafonte

APAK

Well-Known Member
Feb 4, 2018
9,151
9,869
113
Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The scripture below strongly suggest a 3rd temple and renewed animal sacrifice in Jerusalem, that will be an "Abomination" before God and the finished work of Calvary

Isaiah 66:1-4KJV
1 Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?
2 For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the Lord: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.
3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.
4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.
The only way a 3rd Temple is created is by diabolic men who will stage and support what the gullible Christian Zionist wants to hear and see. It will be a delusion and deception of the highest order.

If I actually believed there was going to be a 3rd physical Temple in the future and promoted by our Lord and Savior in 'person', for a separate 'Israel' and worship and repentance of their sins, and a separate path for their salvation, then on that very day I denounce my Christian beliefs as a fraud and a joke. I will publicly burn all my Bibles I possess. It is that serious and life changing to me.

It goes against all I believe in and why I believe in Christ and God in the first place. How can anyone who calls or professes themselves as being a Christian even entertain such an evil Anti-Christian thought, let alone believe in this very evil thought and have strong belief in it.

One of the reasons I'm a Christian today is because the very Temple and worship of my creator is in me and others, and in Christ...I have Christ's spirit with in me, don't you??..It is that CRYSTAL CLEAR, and BLACK and WHITE. My Lord is King today of the Kingdom of his Father.

I'm a citizen in this Kingdom of my Lord TODAY, and every remnant who has righteousness and faith in God, of the old National Israel. The word of God tells me this.....is is not negotiable

I hope I'm not the only one that really believes what I just wrote.....God forbid
 
  • Like
Reactions: Truth7t7

Keraz

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2018
5,175
933
113
82
Thames, New Zealand
www.logostelos.info
Faith
Christian
Country
New Zealand
The only way a 3rd Temple is created is by diabolic men who will stage and support what the gullible Christian Zionist wants to hear and see. It will be a delusion and deception of the highest order.

If I actually believed there was going to be a 3rd physical Temple in the future and promoted by our Lord and Savior in 'person', for a separate 'Israel' and worship and repentance of their sins, and a separate path for their salvation, then on that very day I denounce my Christian beliefs as a fraud and a joke. I will publicly burn all my Bibles I possess. It is that serious and life changing to me.

It goes against all I believe in and why I believe in Christ and God in the first place. How can anyone who calls or professes themselves as being a Christian even entertain such an evil Anti-Christian thought, let alone believe in this very evil thought and have strong belief in it.

One of the reasons I'm a Christian today is because the very Temple and worship of my creator is in me and others, and in Christ...I have Christ's spirit with in me, don't you??..It is that CRYSTAL CLEAR, and BLACK and WHITE. My Lord is King today of the Kingdom of his Father.

I'm a citizen in this Kingdom of my Lord TODAY, and every remnant who has righteousness and faith in God, of the old National Israel. The word of God tells me this.....is is not negotiable

I hope I'm not the only one that really believes what I just wrote.....God forbid
Why then; does Paul refer to the new Temple as God's Temple? 2 Thessalonians 2:4

The truth of we Christians being the Spiritual Temple of God on earth, is scriptural.
But that truth does not preclude a physical Temple being built in Jerusalem again. As many Prophesies state and describe.
Adamantly opposing the idea of a new Temple, is like refusing to support a new church building. Do you mind being rained upon during a worship service?
 

APAK

Well-Known Member
Feb 4, 2018
9,151
9,869
113
Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Why then; does Paul refer to the new Temple as God's Temple? 2 Thessalonians 2:4

The truth of we Christians being the Spiritual Temple of God on earth, is scriptural.
But that truth does not preclude a physical Temple being built in Jerusalem again. As many Prophesies state and describe.
Adamantly opposing the idea of a new Temple, is like refusing to support a new church building. Do you mind being rained upon during a worship service?
Keraz: we are miles apart in our beliefs concerning the DEFINITION and PURPOSE of the TEMPLE and even what is meant by salvation and worshipping our God. They are inextricably linked!

Your casual comment in agreeing with me that the spiritual Temple is scriptural, speaks volumes. What else is there besides a SPIRITUAL temple today for true believers?! In my experience, those that seem to doubt their salvation or are not actually saved run and rely on brick and mortar 'churches' for security and possibly their sanctuary for salvation. Our salvation is found in our hearts Keraz, not in a building to truly worship our God, say once a week. A worship service is meaningless if we do not worship in the Temple of the heart where our God resides. You have to know this if you say you are saved.

You can support your new church buildings and new brick and mortar temples of worship, I do not. This is not the Christian community I dwell in nor does my God today. Do you think that God is going to reintroduce the Law again Keraz?

I hope you were joking with your answer you gave about getting rained upon without a church building present, and then inferring this concept with a new 3rd Temple will the reintroduction of Law that Christ already fulfilled! I'm stunned you believe these thoughts as these are not in scripture at all. You have made up your own doctrine and it's dangerous.

1 Corinth 3:16 -> John 4: 23-24 -> Rev 21:22 -> John 4: 21, God no longer resides in brick and mortar buildings like churches and Temples. His Temple and his presence are in the hearts of all true believers. We worship there, his presence is always there 24/7. Did you not get the memo yet? It is not a matter of a physical location to worship anymore Keraz.

(1Co 3:16) Don’t you realize that together you have become God’s inner sanctuary and that the Spirit of God makes his permanent home in you?(TPT)

(Joh 4:23) (23-24) From here on, worshiping the Father will not be a matter of the right place but with the right heart. For God is a Spirit, and he longs to have sincere worshipers who worship and adore him in the realm of the Spirit and in truth.”

(Joh 4:21) “Believe me, dear woman, the time has come when you won’t worship the Father on a mountain nor in Jerusalem, but in your heart.

(Rev 21:22) I saw no temple in the city, for its temple is the Lord God, the Almighty, and the Lamb.

No 3rd brick and mortar Temple Keraz. If there will be one in the future, it will be built by evil men and you will adore it and be deceived!

I'm still quite astonished by your post...
 

Keraz

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2018
5,175
933
113
82
Thames, New Zealand
www.logostelos.info
Faith
Christian
Country
New Zealand
I'm still quite astonished by your post...
You didn't address 2 Thess 2:4. It plainly states that a new Temple will be God's Temple.
Daniel 9:27 is another critical prophecy. It states how there will be a new Temple in the end times, when an Anti-Christ comes to power, Revelation 13:5-8, and what is more: sacrifices and offerings will be made in it.
Confirmed by Isaiah 56:6-7, Ezekiel 20:40-41, Jeremiah 33:17-18

To reject the idea of a new Temple is to reject much scripture.
We do not know the Mind of God. He wanted a Temple before, with sacrifices and offerings. He does not change.
Jesus did sacrifice Himself and is the Atonement for our sins now; IF we accept it.

I suggest that you throw off all false teachings and wrong beliefs. Accept what the Bible plainly says.
 

APAK

Well-Known Member
Feb 4, 2018
9,151
9,869
113
Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You didn't address 2 Thess 2:4. It plainly states that a new Temple will be God's Temple.
Daniel 9:27 is another critical prophecy. It states how there will be a new Temple in the end times, when an Anti-Christ comes to power, Revelation 13:5-8, and what is more: sacrifices and offerings will be made in it.
Confirmed by Isaiah 56:6-7, Ezekiel 20:40-41, Jeremiah 33:17-18

To reject the idea of a new Temple is to reject much scripture.
We do not know the Mind of God. He wanted a Temple before, with sacrifices and offerings. He does not change.
Jesus did sacrifice Himself and is the Atonement for our sins now; IF we accept it.

I suggest that you throw off all false teachings and wrong beliefs. Accept what the Bible plainly says.
You are a die-hard Futurist pre-trib-super-tripper and have compromised your salvation by believing in these theories over the word of God.

Note: 2 Thess 2:4 does not even speak to a NEW Temple at all. You made that up to conform to your futurist theory. This event occurred with Titus in 70 AD. Titus desecrated and his soldier caused the abomination. The old 2nd Temple before he pulverized it and burned it down. It was God's way of signaling to all, he was done with the unbelieving National Israel and the Law and that his Son was now holding the reigns of power as King. And God never changes. And you now want to alter this history and his plan with no scriptural support and say this is all yet to happen with a another physical Temple.
Daniel 9:27 and Revelation 13:5-8 also refer to the same past event as in 2 Thess 2:4.
Isaiah 56:6-7, Ezekiel 20:40-41 and Jeremiah 33:17-18 were completed in Christ when he went to the Cross and ascended into heaven. You have to understand the symbolic and poetic language of the Hebrews. Other nations and the remnants of National Israel with be as one in Christ. They will live in spirit in the Kingdom as believers (until it is fully realized later -new heavens and earth), The believers' offerings and sacrifices are not physical sacrifices for sin forgiveness. They are their heartfelt repentance acts and prayers etc.
Ezekiel 20:40-42 does have a literal meaning in it however....

God promised that when Israel was restored to the land, the people would again serve Him and this was fulfilled when the (2nd) temple was rebuilt under Ezra and Zerubbabel.

You are still thinking you are going to be under the LAW again and Christ died for nothing. WE ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW! What are you preaching here? It's disgusting.

I will never accept and bow down to your ridiculous theories that have already damages minds of new Christians. Your Father is Darby or Scofield. Mine is God Almighty.

So I gather you are not carrying the Temple of God within you?(rhetorical)
So what will you do with the 'false' teaching of Paul as you pointed out and I quoted again? Deny it exists, because if you didn't your pre-trib theory falls flat on it face.

Review what I wrote once more and confirm it's false teaching once more...I dare you!
(1Co 3:16) Don’t you realize that together you have become God’s inner sanctuary and that the Spirit of God makes his permanent home in you?(TPT)

(Joh 4:23) (23-24) From here on, worshiping the Father will not be a matter of the right place but with the right heart. For God is a Spirit, and he longs to have sincere worshipers who worship and adore him in the realm of the Spirit and in truth.”

(Joh 4:21) “Believe me, dear woman, the time has come when you won’t worship the Father on a mountain nor in Jerusalem, but in your heart.

(Rev 21:22) I saw no temple in the city, for its temple is the Lord God, the Almighty, and the Lamb.

What are you going to do with these verse Keraz? They don't fit your theory do they?

(2Th 2:4) He is the opposing counterpart who exalts himself over everything that is called “God” or is worshiped and who sits enthroned in God’s temple and makes himself out to be a god.(TPT)

And you think that in 2Th 2:4 the mention of God's temple automatically means a new 3rd Temple. Everyone know this, right? Quite a stretch don't you think.

You said: 'It plainly states that a new Temple will be God's Temple. stop your lying!! Read the scripture again.

Where in scripture does it say explicitly there is a future Anti-Christ person sitting in a new 3rd brick and mortar building of a Temple? I must have missed that one.

So what do you expect this very evil person to do and say in this 'holy building?' Bad things and do evil rituals that have all been done before by previous Anti-Christ spirited people of the past?! It makes for a great hit fairy tale doesn't it....lol
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Reggie Belafonte

Keraz

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2018
5,175
933
113
82
Thames, New Zealand
www.logostelos.info
Faith
Christian
Country
New Zealand
You are a die-hard Futurist pre-trib-super-tripper and have compromised your salvation by believing in these theories over the word of God.
Can I get a badge for that?
But I am NOT a pre-tribber. I reject any 'rapture to heaven.
Note: 2 Thess 2:4 does not even speak to a NEW Temple at all.
2 Thessalonians 21-4 is all about what must happen just before Jesus Returns.
There WILL be a new Temple, Revelation 11:1 confirms it.
This event occurred with Titus in 70 AD. Titus desecrated and his soldier caused the abomination.
Read Josephus do you? Seems you prefer wild speculation to historical facts.
The 'abomination of desolation' is plainly told to us as; Satan sitting in the holy Place. 1 Thess 2:4
Titus, nor anyone of his army did that.
Other nations and the remnants of National Israel with be as one in Christ. They will live in spirit in the Kingdom as believers (until it is fully realized later -new heavens and earth),
This I agree with. The Kingdom will at first be in all of the holy Land. After Jesus Returns, it becomes world wide.
I will never accept and bow down to your ridiculous theories that have already damages minds of new Christians. Your Father is Darby or Scofield. Mine is God Almighty.
Now you have degenerated into personal attack and unChristian abuse.
Its going to be a difficult end times for you and all who fail to understand what God's plans and purposes are for His people.
 

APAK

Well-Known Member
Feb 4, 2018
9,151
9,869
113
Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Can I get a badge for that?
But I am NOT a pre-tribber. I reject any 'rapture to heaven.

2 Thessalonians 21-4 is all about what must happen just before Jesus Returns.
There WILL be a new Temple, Revelation 11:1 confirms it.

Read Josephus do you? Seems you prefer wild speculation to historical facts.
The 'abomination of desolation' is plainly told to us as; Satan sitting in the holy Place. 1 Thess 2:4
Titus, nor anyone of his army did that.

This I agree with. The Kingdom will at first be in all of the holy Land. After Jesus Returns, it becomes world wide.

Now you have degenerated into personal attack and unChristian abuse.
Its going to be a difficult end times for you and all who fail to understand what God's plans and purposes are for His people.

So now you have succumb to whimpering and crying about a so-called personal attack as an un-Christian abuse. Go home to your Mum and cry to her. Who you are I really do not care. It is what you believe, claim and teach on this thread that annoys me. I will attack it at every turn.

I attack your false doctrine because I consider it more damning than what others have been banned for on this site. You claim you understand symbolic language in some areas of scripture, and you do not, and you produce your amusing snappy statements like 'it confirms it' of proof that is meant to show your expertise (lol), and yet you can understand the simple difference between a personal attack and your damning doctrinal that I attack, and will continue to do, verse for verse if required, until you stop spewing out these unsubstantiated claims for example of a future God-sanctioned physical 3rd Temple.

Do you want me to continue and now correct you over what you think Rev 11:1 means? You opened this door to all these things, not I, and you must be accountable for them Keraz. There is no hiding here. Either live with it and agree to disagree or be ready to get more criticism. The choice is yours.
 

APAK

Well-Known Member
Feb 4, 2018
9,151
9,869
113
Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
@Keraz ...here's a video that is pretty good at explaining my beef with your teaching....what you teach is an abomination to God, IMO.

This video covers what I was going to add in text to you in later posts....I do not vouch for its source although I like what I hear, as the truth.

Enjoy it and read the word's of God within it


Pray you see your error, APAK
 

Keraz

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2018
5,175
933
113
82
Thames, New Zealand
www.logostelos.info
Faith
Christian
Country
New Zealand
Do you want me to continue and now correct you over what you think Rev 11:1 means? You opened this door to all these things, not I, and you must be accountable for them Keraz. There is no hiding here. Either live with it and agree to disagree or be ready to get more criticism. The choice is yours.
I want you to engage in a proper discussion. With Biblical proofs.
Your posts so far are rants, because your beliefs are challenged.
I have presented scriptures which talk about a new Temple in the end times and in the Millennium. Why should you or anyone object to a new Temple? God wanted Temples before and He does not change.
The Third Temple – Beit HaMikdesh:

Ezekiel 40,41 & 42 Ezekiel measures the future Temple and its precincts.
Ezekiel 43 to 48 Details of the Temple furnishings and the Land divisions, etc.

Haggai 2:6-9 In a little while, I shall shake the heavens, the earth, the sea and all the nations. I will fill this House with their treasures. This latter House will be greater than former. In this place, I shall grant prosperity and peace. [The Second Temple was not greater than Solomon’s Temple]

Zechariah 1:16-17 These are the words of the Lord; I have returned to Jerusalem with compassion, My House is to be rebuilt there. My cities will again brim with prosperity, once again the Lord will comfort Zion and make Jerusalem the city of His choice.

2 Thess 2:3-4 The Return of Jesus cannot come until the man doomed to destruction is revealed and enthrones himself in God’s Temple, claiming to be God.
[What could be clearer than that? The Temple must be rebuilt before the Tribulation.]

Daniel 9:27....He will put a stop to the sacrifices and offerings, then will set up an abomination in the Holy place.

Malachi 3:1 I am about to send My messenger to clear a path before Me. Suddenly, the Lord, whom you seek, will come into His Temple. The messenger of the Covenant, whom you desire, will come to you.
Reference REB, NIV some verses abridged


Jewish Midrash sources say that the messenger is the Messiah ben Joseph, who will be the leader of the 10 tribes of Israel when they return to the Land and he will instigate the rebuilding of the Temple. Jeremiah 30:21

Further on, it is mentioned again in Haggai 2:21, the shaking and overthrowing of kings and how the Lord will break the power of the heathen realms. As we see in verses 6-9 this happens before the rebuilding and therefore, the gathering of His people.

It is likely that the Lord will use the next prophesied event, the Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath, centered on the Middle East, to ‘break the power of the heathen realms’. This will enable His people, every faithful Christian, to settle into the Land of Greater Israel and build the Temple.

It is not possible, at present for the Jewish State of Israel to build anything on the Temple mount:
1/ They have handed control of the area to the Muslims.
2/ Any move to start construction would trigger a war.
3/ Orthodox Jews, especially Ultra Orthodox, are forbidden or dare not go onto the Mount, for fear of stepping onto the place of the Holy of Holies.
4/ Atheist Jews [half the population] are not interested or don’t want a Temple.

But this will happen:
Zechariah 6:15 Men from far away will come and work on the rebuilding of God’s Temple. This will come about if you listen to and obey your God.

Ezekiel 43:4 The glory of the Lord comes into the temple via the East gate.
 

Keraz

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2018
5,175
933
113
82
Thames, New Zealand
www.logostelos.info
Faith
Christian
Country
New Zealand
Pray you see your error, APAK
I did watch the video, something I don't usually do, as they are so biased and self-promoting of their beliefs.
That one is no different, he even accuses those who believe there will be a new Temple, of being wannabe Jews and of denigrating the Sacrifice of Jesus.

That Jesus did make the once and only sacrifice for our sins, is not under contention. But that truth does not mean there cannot be a new Temple for His people to worship in.
 

APAK

Well-Known Member
Feb 4, 2018
9,151
9,869
113
Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I want you to engage in a proper discussion. With Biblical proofs.
Your posts so far are rants, because your beliefs are challenged.
I have presented scriptures which talk about a new Temple in the end times and in the Millennium. Why should you or anyone object to a new Temple? God wanted Temples before and He does not change.
The Third Temple – Beit HaMikdesh:

Ezekiel 40,41 & 42 Ezekiel measures the future Temple and its precincts.
Ezekiel 43 to 48 Details of the Temple furnishings and the Land divisions, etc.

Haggai 2:6-9 In a little while, I shall shake the heavens, the earth, the sea and all the nations. I will fill this House with their treasures. This latter House will be greater than former. In this place, I shall grant prosperity and peace. [The Second Temple was not greater than Solomon’s Temple]

Zechariah 1:16-17 These are the words of the Lord; I have returned to Jerusalem with compassion, My House is to be rebuilt there. My cities will again brim with prosperity, once again the Lord will comfort Zion and make Jerusalem the city of His choice.

2 Thess 2:3-4 The Return of Jesus cannot come until the man doomed to destruction is revealed and enthrones himself in God’s Temple, claiming to be God.
[What could be clearer than that? The Temple must be rebuilt before the Tribulation.]

Daniel 9:27....He will put a stop to the sacrifices and offerings, then will set up an abomination in the Holy place.

Malachi 3:1 I am about to send My messenger to clear a path before Me. Suddenly, the Lord, whom you seek, will come into His Temple. The messenger of the Covenant, whom you desire, will come to you.
Reference REB, NIV some verses abridged


Jewish Midrash sources say that the messenger is the Messiah ben Joseph, who will be the leader of the 10 tribes of Israel when they return to the Land and he will instigate the rebuilding of the Temple. Jeremiah 30:21

Further on, it is mentioned again in Haggai 2:21, the shaking and overthrowing of kings and how the Lord will break the power of the heathen realms. As we see in verses 6-9 this happens before the rebuilding and therefore, the gathering of His people.

It is likely that the Lord will use the next prophesied event, the Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath, centered on the Middle East, to ‘break the power of the heathen realms’. This will enable His people, every faithful Christian, to settle into the Land of Greater Israel and build the Temple.

It is not possible, at present for the Jewish State of Israel to build anything on the Temple mount:
1/ They have handed control of the area to the Muslims.
2/ Any move to start construction would trigger a war.
3/ Orthodox Jews, especially Ultra Orthodox, are forbidden or dare not go onto the Mount, for fear of stepping onto the place of the Holy of Holies.
4/ Atheist Jews [half the population] are not interested or don’t want a Temple.

But this will happen:
Zechariah 6:15 Men from far away will come and work on the rebuilding of God’s Temple. This will come about if you listen to and obey your God.

Ezekiel 43:4 The glory of the Lord comes into the temple via the East gate.
Are you imitating a false Rabbinical and false Jew ideology? I've seen this false doctrine for several decades now and this does not belong with the Body of Christ.
--------------------------------
You highlighted a Rabbinical term as your bolded headline of your post. Are you a false Jew (wanna-be) or a Messianic Jew. Sounds like it to me. And you also reject Christ as the Pharisees did?

The Third Temple – Beit HaMikdesh:

Beit Hamikdash is the Hebrew phrase for the Temple that was first built by King Solomon.

So do you reject the Son of God and his atoning and redemptive work on the Cross as he was the final sufficient sacrifice for sin? Are you then wanting Solomon's Temple back and wanting to usurp the body and Temple of risen Christ? Can I get a truthful and direct answer to both of these questions?
-----------------------------------------
So you you say that you are looking for more substance from me (not rants) to challenge you further and then topple your theory. Well if you wish although I do not see the point in it as you will just ignore it. You are too deep into your religion of a 3rd Rabbinical temple. I most probably be wasting my time here.

Here's a bit on Ezekiel that is a major pillar support for your twisted doctrine. Let me get my axe out now and cut down one of your supports...
-----------------------------
Key points regarding the vision of Ezekiel and the temple - Chapters 40-48 and as it related to Rev 21-22:

The temple Ezekiel saw in his vision was about 1 mile square. This is about the same size as Old Jerusalem during Christ’s time. Is this a literal Temple in this vision?

Ezekiel's temple lacks essential elements from the tabernacle and Solomon's temple. There is no reference to the bronze basin, golden lampstand, table of showbread, altar of incense, veil separating the holy of holies, ark of the covenant, cherubim, anointing oil, or high priest.

The reference to the "very high mountain" on which the city was located (Ezek 40:2). More discussion on this later.

The measurements generally include only lengths and widths but omit heights.

The absence of any reference to the bronze basin, golden lampstand, table of showbread, altar of incense, veil separating the holy of holies, ark of the covenant, temple furniture.

The absence of any "wall around the inner court, to which its three massive gates might stand in relation."

The predictable introductory formula-consistency (Ezek 40:1-2)

The introduction in Ezek 40:1-2 contains three elements: (1) reference to a specific date when the experience occurred; (2) a statement that "the hand of the Lord was upon me"; and (3) a statement that he saw "visions".

The only other places in Ezekiel where that three-fold introductory formula occurs are in Ezek 1:1-3 and 8:1-3. In both of those other cases, the vision which Ezekiel saw was of a heavenly temple (i.e., God's dwelling place in heaven), not an earthly one. The heavenly temple is explicitly clear in Ezek 1:1-28 where the focus is exclusively in heaven.

In Ezek 8:1-11:23 the vision is of the heavenly presence that is linked to God's earthly presence with his people. Ezekiel saw the glory of God (8:4). However, Ezekiel then saw the abominations which were being done in the physical temple (8:5-17). Therefore, the glory of God began to leave the physical temple (9:3). The scene then shifts to the heavenly temple (10:1-22), and the glory of God completes his departure from the physical temple (10:4; 11:22-23). God's presence is still with the faithful exiles in Babylon (11:16), who are the true earthly temple, even though the physical temple building had been destroyed by the Babylonians.

The River (Ezek 47:2-12)

In Ezekiel's vision, the river must be symbolic and supernatural because even though no tributaries are mentioned, the water gets progressively deeper, from a trickle to a river that could not be forded (47:2-5). Unlike a natural, earthly river, it makes salt water fresh rather than vice versa (47:6-12).

The significance of the first coming of Christ

Although Ezekiel wrote using language and imagery that his immediate audience could understand, in light of the coming of Christ Ezekiel's temple could not possibly represent a literal, physical building to be constructed in the future.
-------------continued below-----------------
 
  • Like
Reactions: Reggie Belafonte

APAK

Well-Known Member
Feb 4, 2018
9,151
9,869
113
Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
@Keraz ..continuation from the above post..

Throughout his vision Ezekiel describes animal sacrifices which are said to have an "atoning" purpose and effect (Ezek 43:13-27; 45:15-25). Such sacrifices could not possibly truly be atoning sacrifices, since that would reverse redemptive history and deny the efficacy and sufficiency of Christ's once and-for-all sacrifice of himself, contrary to Heb 9:11—10:22. That also would return to the "shadows" in place of the substance and reality (see Col 2:16-17; Heb 8:1-10:22).

To take literally/ physically Ezekiel's portrait of Jerusalem as the center of the world's worship (Ezekiel 47-48), where non-Israelites are excluded from the temple (Ezek 44:6-9), likewise completely reverses what Christ has done. Yahshua eliminated the requirement that worship be conducted at some special place (John 4:21, 23) and eliminated the distinction between Jews and other nations among God's people.

To say that the sacrifices are simply "memorials" of Christ's sacrifice means that there is likewise no reason to take the temple itself "literally" (i.e., as a physical structure). To view the sacrifices referred to by Ezekiel as "memorials" also would dishonor Christ since the only memorial that Christ himself gave to "memorialize" his redemptive work was the Lord's Supper, not a return to OT sacrifices (Luke 22:14-20; 1 Cor 11:23-26).

Ezekiel's vision showed a river of life-giving water flowing out from under the temple (Ezek 47:1-12). Since Jesus is God's true temple (see John 2:18-22), he is the true source of life-giving water. In John 4:10-14, he told the Samaritan woman that he is the source of eternal, "living water." In John 7:37- 39, Jesus said, referring to his giving the Holy Spirit, "If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink. He who believes in me, as the Scripture said, 'From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.'" Since no OT text explicitly says "from His innermost being will flow rivers of living water," it is likely that "a multiple allusion to pertinent scriptures is in mind. Those would be passages that were of prime significance for the meaning of the festival and were read at it."

Included among these was Ezek 47:1-11, the flowing of the river of living water from the temple in the kingdom of God. In other words, Yahshua connects the eschatological temple of Ezekiel with himself as the new temple. Hence, the waters flow not from a physical temple in Jerusalem but from Jesus himself. The church is the channel of the life-giving water whose source is Yahshua.

Ezekiel's final vision builds upon and ends with what he earlier had said in Ezek 37:26-28. Just as that passage twice said that God would "set up a sanctuary in their midst forever," so Ezek 43:7- 9 twice says "I will dwell among them forever." In 2 Cor 6:16-7:1 Paul linked the promises of Lev 26:11-12, 2 Sam 7:14, and Ezek 37:27 and showed how fulfillment of those promises was inaugurated in the church.

The New Jerusalem (Rev 21:1—22:5), not a physical building to be constructed on the earth in the future, is the consummation of Ezekiel's temple (Ezekiel 40-48) and is the true reality to which Ezekiel's vision pointed.

In Ezek 40:2, Ezekiel was taken to a "very high mountain" where he saw a "structure like a city." There are no "very high mountains" in or around physical Jerusalem. The fact that he saw a structure "like" a city suggests that Ezekiel is entering into the realm of symbolic geography of heaven and earth that pertains to eschatological conditions.

That is confirmed by Rev 21:10 which parallels Ezekiel's language in describing the New Jerusalem. That passage says an angel "carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God."

In Ezekiel's vision both the temple and the city are described as square. The identification of Ezekiel's city with the New Jerusalem is confirmed by Rev 21:16 which describes New Jerusalem as "laid out as a square."

The essential element of Ezekiel's vision is that God's presence and his will dwells among his people forever. The book of Ezekiel ends with the statement, "the name of the city from that day shall be, 'The Lord is there'" (Ezek 48:35). That is fulfilled in the New Jerusalem of Revelation 21-22:

Ezek 43:7-9 twice says "I will dwell among them forever." In the Greek OT, the root for "dwell" in Ezek 43:7 is "tabernacle." Rev 21:3 indicates that the New Jerusalem is the consummation of all prophecy, including Ezekiel's vision, by echoing Ezek 43:7, 9 and twice saying "the tabernacle of God is among men" and "He will dwell among them." Also, three times Rev 21:3 says that God will be "among" his people.

Ezek 43:7 says, "This is the place of my throne." Rev 22:1, 3 both state that "the throne of God and of the Lamb" will be in New Jerusalem.

Ezekiel's temple and the New Jerusalem both have twelve gates in the same configuration: three on the north; three on the east; three on the south; three on the west.

Further, the apostles and the tribes of Israel are described as part of the very structure of New Jerusalem itself: the apostles are the foundation (Rev 21:14); the twelve tribes are the gates (Rev 21:12-13). "The integration of the apostles together with the tribes of Israel as part of the city-temple's structure prophesied in Ezekiel 40-48 confirms … that the multiracial/different ethnic groups of the Christian church/ Body will be the redeemed group who, together with Christ, will fulfill Ezekiel's prophecy of the future temple and city. This is in line with other NT passages in which the whole covenant community forms a spiritual temple where God's presence dwells (1 Cor 3:16-17; 6:19; 2 Cor 6:16; Eph 2:21-22; 1 Pet 2:5)."

Ezekiel's temple is at the center of everything. In New Jerusalem, there is no physical temple building "for the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb are its temple" (Rev 21:22). Thus, the true temple—God and the Lamb—is now central. "The equation of God and the Lamb with the temple approaches closely the essence of the Ezekiel vision, which is God's glorious presence itself (e.g., 48:35, 'the name of the city' is 'the Lord is there'). All that Israel's old temple pointed to, the expanding presence of God, has been fulfilled in Revelation 21:1—22:5, and such a fulfillment has been anticipated within Ezekiel 40-48 itself." 17 Ezek 47:1-12 describes a river flowing from out of the temple which is healing and life-giving. Rev 22:1-2 uses the same imagery and applies it to the New Jerusalem. The identification of the river in Ezekiel's vision with the river in the New Jerusalem is corroborated by Ezek 47:7, 12 which says that there were trees on both banks of the river. That parallels Rev 22:2 which similarly says that the tree of life was "on either side of the river." In both cases the trees are said to bear fruit (Ezek 47:12; Rev 22:2). Further, in both cases the leaves of the trees are "for healing" (Ezek 47:12; Rev 22:2).

Ezekiel's temple would only be a reality for those who had put away their abominations and sins (Ezek 43:6-9). Echoing Ezek 43:6-9, Rev 21:8, 27 say that "nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination" will be in the New Jerusalem. That shows that Ezekiel's temple could only be referring to people who are "in Christ." Just as Christ inaugurated his kingdom and forever forgave sins at his first coming, so the New Jerusalem forms the consummation of Christ's kingdom, in which sins are forever eliminated.

------------still think Ezekiel had a vision of a 3rd physical temple? ----------------------

I now wish to discontinue any more discussion on this topic of yours and your damming doctrine of a 3rd physical temple with you. I have just toppled one of your major pillars of your precious doctrine. Live with it!

You demean Christ, APAK

Happy trails
 
Last edited: