Who are the sons of God and the daughters of men

[amadeus]

Oh Boy.....

I believe Satan is a tool God uses to punish man that have gone out of the way.

Yes, a tool which may be understood as the left hand of God. We want to be on or in God's right hand!

I believe Satan is the judgment man uses in his own law, like the man who had his mother, and Paul said to hand him over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh so the spirit could be saved...
this would mean to me tha the was handed over to the sanhedrin and they probably whipped him 39 times according to the law.

Satan is the adversary or opposite of God. God don't look upon evil, so he send Satan to be his eyes and ears.
God doesn't tempt man, so he sends Satan to test and try and tempt.

The Left hand of God is used to accomplish the curses in God's Word! Unbelievers may be used as the Left hand of God; or believers out of God's perfect will may in the time of their failings may also be used as the Left hand of God.

Satan plays a big role in God's court. But Satan got too big for his britches and God threw him out.
Like Adam got thrown out of the garden... hmmm

Like King Nebuchadnezzar I think who was abased as an animal and lost his kingdom for awhile.

Now thats another interesting point I'll have to dig on later.. Nebu got to come back after he humbled himself.

Whether or not Nebuchadnezzar ever moved finally into the Right hand position is unknown, but he was certainly used as God's Left hand.

Job lost everything because of what? sef-righteousness, pride. But when he humbled himself God gave him back double.

This gets curiouser and curiouser lol

I believe man can be his own Satan,, by decieving himself, tempting himself. Putting himself in places that they know they won't be able to refrain. Like an alcoholic going to the bar.

Aye, his own alcoholism uncontrolled may serve as the Left hand of God because of a man has been walking contrary to God.

Satan wears a lot of hats.
But mostly he hangs out with the rich men north of richmond who want to play god over us lowly slaves.

Who will draw that line? Men want to draw it themselves instead of wanting to see where God draws it.

Hugs

 

[Timtofly]

You honestly think that we can become physically separated from God? Physical location or address has no bearing on my relationship with God.

Theologians use the term "separation" to refer to having enmity with God, not a person's address. Whether I am considered an enemy or friend of God depends solely on the state of my heart and my attitude towards Him.

Romans 5:1-2
Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God.

Formerly, we were God's enemies. But now, in Jesus Christ we peace with God.

Adam and Eve were sons of God enjoying God's place He built for them so they would have fellowship with God on a daily basis. The Garden was like living in a church building every day of the week. Why is this so difficult to understand?

They stopped being in a state of life when Adam disobeyed God. They were placed in a state of death. That was a physical separation from God. They lost the connection with their spirit, thus both physical and spiritual death. From that point on, the were just body and soul. Then they were booted from Paradise, and had to live as dead sinners among all the other sons of God. Adam and Eve were God's friends. Now they are God's enemies.

So yes, humans are the enemies of God. Through Christ that process of death is reversed.

 

[Truthnightmare]

I believe the sons of God are angels (however we can all become sons of God through Christ.

The daughters of man, are the daughters of Adam.

 

[Ziggy]

Who will draw that line? Men want to draw it themselves instead of wanting to see where God draws it.

I think the lines been drawn a long time. But God in his mercy and long-suffering has been so gracious to us.
God told Abraham that for 10 righteous men he would not destroy Sodom and Gomorrah.
They only found one and that was Lot whose soul was vexed daily by the evils of men.

Today, Jesus is our righteousness to everyone that believes and has faith in him.
Many profess this belief and this faith, but only God knows the truth of a man's heart.
And is there an Abraham today to barter for our existence?
Yes, this is Jesus our High Priest which goes before God in our stead.
Father, forgive them for they know not what they do.


I am reading 2 Thessalonians chapter 2, regarding the falling away and that Wicked being revealed.
The phrase that catches my attention is: Only he who now letteth will let.

2Th 2:7
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

Which brings me to:
Rev 22:11
He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Rev 22:12
And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

only he who now letteth, he that is unjust, filthy, give every man according as his work shall be.

That Wicked be revealed...
Gen 13:13
But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly.
Est 7:6
And Esther said, The adversary and enemy is this wicked Haman. Then Haman was afraid before the king and the queen.

Is the he who now letteth, the individual who has to face God ?
until he be taken out of the way. the falling away, the false, the liar, the unjust, the filthy.

out of the way as in removed or out of the way as in off the path.

The Way was a term that was used for the christian movement. So out of the way, speaking of this Way?
What's the word ... apostacy?

Apostasy is the formal disaffiliation from, abandonment of, or renunciation of a religion by a person. It can also be defined within the broader context of embracing an opinion that is contrary to one's previous religious beliefs. One who undertakes apostasy is known as an apostate. Undertaking apostasy is called apostatizing. Wikipedia

Who will draw that line?
Well, it's either God or the apostate?

Does man draw his own line?

thinking...
It is appointed unto man once to die and after this the judgment.

In what generation does God say, times up?

We can see the signs, they been growing since Adam and Eve.
I was looking for a modern day beginning but there really isn't one. It's always been here. Wicked.
We hear the prophecies, we see the world is covered in darkness, with little points of stars dotted here and there.

In the Kingdom of heaven there is no darkness only light, no wicked only righteousness.

The stars of heaven is our candle that burns in the night.
Until our candle either runs out of wick or is snuffed out.
Or ever the silver cord..

Ecc 12:6
Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
Ecc 12:7
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Only God knows the day and the hour. Let's not run out of oil in our lamps.
Hugs

deep thoughts...

 

[David in NJ]

ok, I'm going to put this into another scenerio...

1Ki 22:19
And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left.
1Ki 22:20
And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.
1Ki 22:21
And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him.
1Ki 22:22
And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.
1Ki 22:23
Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.

Now we know in Job that even Satan comes before the throne. Satan can't do anything unless God gives him permission.

So rewording here..
And the Lord said, Who shall persuade Asam to eat of the fruit of knowledge of good and evil, so that he may die and I may raise him in the last day?

And Satan came forward and said, I will go forth and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of the snake.

And God said Go ahead.

But remember, it was God that gave them the truth to begin with. They had a choice.
But I believe God knew because otherwise why would there be a need for redemption.
I believe that while there was no commandment to eat, they was frolicking and doing whatever and they had no shame.

When time was up and they had to face the music, God sent the serpent with a lying spirit to tempt them.


That's what I'm thinking..
Hugs

Yes, i am very familiar with that OT passage where God sent a lying spirit in the mouth of those prophets.

What is the BIG difference between that scenario and the Garden/Eve/Serpent account?

I think the lines been drawn a long time. But God in his mercy and long-suffering has been so gracious to us.
God told Abraham that for 10 righteous men he would not destroy Sodom and Gomorrah.
They only found one and that was Lot whose soul was vexed daily by the evils of men.

Today, Jesus is our righteousness to everyone that believes and has faith in him.
Many profess this belief and this faith, but only God knows the truth of a man's heart.
And is there an Abraham today to barter for our existence?
Yes, this is Jesus our High Priest which goes before God in our stead.
Father, forgive them for they know not what they do.


I am reading 2 Thessalonians chapter 2, regarding the falling away and that Wicked being revealed.
The phrase that catches my attention is: Only he who now letteth will let.

2Th 2:7
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

Which brings me to:
Rev 22:11
He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Rev 22:12
And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

only he who now letteth, he that is unjust, filthy, give every man according as his work shall be.

That Wicked be revealed...
Gen 13:13
But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly.
Est 7:6
And Esther said, The adversary and enemy is this wicked Haman. Then Haman was afraid before the king and the queen.

Is the he who now letteth, the individual who has to face God ?
until he be taken out of the way. the falling away, the false, the liar, the unjust, the filthy.

out of the way as in removed or out of the way as in off the path.

The Way was a term that was used for the christian movement. So out of the way, speaking of this Way?
What's the word ... apostacy?

Apostasy is the formal disaffiliation from, abandonment of, or renunciation of a religion by a person. It can also be defined within the broader context of embracing an opinion that is contrary to one's previous religious beliefs. One who undertakes apostasy is known as an apostate. Undertaking apostasy is called apostatizing. Wikipedia

Who will draw that line?
Well, it's either God or the apostate?

Does man draw his own line?

thinking...
It is appointed unto man once to die and after this the judgment.

In what generation does God say, times up?

We can see the signs, they been growing since Adam and Eve.
I was looking for a modern day beginning but there really isn't one. It's always been here. Wicked.
We hear the prophecies, we see the world is covered in darkness, with little points of stars dotted here and there.

In the Kingdom of heaven there is no darkness only light, no wicked only righteousness.

The stars of heaven is our candle that burns in the night.
Until our candle either runs out of wick or is snuffed out.
Or ever the silver cord..

Ecc 12:6
Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
Ecc 12:7
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Only God knows the day and the hour. Let's not run out of oil in our lamps.
Hugs

deep thoughts...

"He who not letteth" is not the wicked one.

7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.

restrains [it]
κατέχων (katechōn)
Verb - Present Participle Active - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's Greek 2722: From kata and echo; to hold down, in various applications.

#1 - "HE" - so it is not the Church(She/Her)

#2 - "HE" is "restraining/holding down" the wicked one from coming forth

#3 - When "HE" steps aside then the wicked one(Haman/Antichrist) will be revealed.

#4 - whom the LORD will destroy with the Brightness of His Coming

#5 - "the way" in 2 Thess 2:7 is not Christianity/Gospel
[the] way.
μέσου (mesou)
Adjective - Genitive Neuter Singular
Strong's Greek 3319: Middle, in the middle, between, in the midst of. From meta; middle (neuter) noun).

"HE" stands in the "the way" restraining the wicked one/Antichrist from coming unto the world scene as Savior.

 

[Ziggy]

Yes, i am very familiar with that OT passage where God sent a lying spirit in the mouth of those prophets.

What is the BIG difference between that scenario and the Garden/Eve/Serpent account?

"He who not letteth" is not the wicked one.

7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.

restrains [it]
κατέχων (katechōn)
Verb - Present Participle Active - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's Greek 2722: From kata and echo; to hold down, in various applications.

#1 - "HE" - so it is not the Church(She/Her)

#2 - "HE" is "restraining/holding down" the wicked one from coming forth

#3 - When "HE" steps aside then the wicked one(Haman/Antichrist) will be revealed.

#4 - whom the LORD will destroy with the Brightness of His Coming

#5 - "the way" in 2 Thess 2:7 is not Christianity/Gospel
[the] way.
μέσου (mesou)
Adjective - Genitive Neuter Singular
Strong's Greek 3319: Middle, in the middle, between, in the midst of. From meta; middle (neuter) noun).

"HE" stands in the "the way" restraining the wicked one/Antichrist from coming unto the world scene as Savior.

The only one standing between us and the world is God's Holy Spirit.
The carnal man vs the spirit of Christ in man.

What is the Big difference between the lying spirit in the prophets and the lying spirit in the snake...

both were sent to decieve and to get a reaction. In both cases the one being decieved was being led to the slaughter.

The persons being decieved were given warning. God warned Adam and Micahaiah warned Zedekiah.

Both lost the battle.

What do you see is the difference? What am I missing?

Hugs

 

[CadyandZoe]

Adam and Eve were sons of God enjoying God's place He built for them so they would have fellowship with God on a daily basis. The Garden was like living in a church building every day of the week. Why is this so difficult to understand?

Many people can see that the expulsion of Adam and Eve represented separation from God. The physical separation represents mutual hatred and ill will between them. To disobey God is to announce hostility and animus with God. The expulsion from "Paradise" represented enmity between God and man.

Cain and Able lived outside the Garden of Eden, and yet God was able to fellowship with Able and warn Cain about his sin. Even here, Cain's sin represented enmity between Cain and God.

We don't live in an inaccessible place where God cannot reach us. Our problem is that we are natural enemies against God, which means that our hatred of God is what actually separates us.

They stopped being in a state of life when Adam disobeyed God. They were placed in a state of death.

I might agree with that if I knew what you meant. I can imagine myself saying something similar. What sustains our life is more important than what state we are in.

Recall Jesus' encounter with the crowds after he fed the five thousand. In that context, he compared the bread, which sustains life for a day or so, with "living water," which sustains life a lot longer. And Jesus was speaking of the Spirit when he spoke of living water.

Placing a guard at the Tree of Life represents the idea that Adam and Eve no longer had access to a substantial source of life granted by God himself. Instead, Adam and Eve were forced to work in the fields in order to gather grain to make bread. Jesus taught that he would give access to life-sustaining "water" to anyone who believed in him.

That was a physical separation from God. They lost the connection with their spirit, thus both physical and spiritual death.

There is no Biblical evidence to support your claim that they lost the connection with their spirit.

 

[David in NJ]

The only one standing between us and the world is God's Holy Spirit.
The carnal man vs the spirit of Christ in man.

What is the Big difference between the lying spirit in the prophets and the lying spirit in the snake...

both were sent to decieve and to get a reaction. In both cases the one being decieved was being led to the slaughter.

The persons being decieved were given warning. God warned Adam and Micahaiah warned Zedekiah.

Both lost the battle.

What do you see is the difference? What am I missing?

Hugs

@Ziggy says: "The only one standing between us and the world is God's Holy Spirit."

HalleluYAH
BINGO
SMACKDOWN

Genesis 1:2 - "And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters."

 

[David in NJ]

The only one standing between us and the world is God's Holy Spirit.
The carnal man vs the spirit of Christ in man.

What is the Big difference between the lying spirit in the prophets and the lying spirit in the snake...

both were sent to decieve and to get a reaction. In both cases the one being decieved was being led to the slaughter.

The persons being decieved were given warning. God warned Adam and Micahaiah warned Zedekiah.

Both lost the battle.

What do you see is the difference? What am I missing?

Hugs

@Ziggy says: "The persons being decieved were given warning. God warned Adam and Micahaiah warned Zedekiah.
Both lost the battle.
What do you see is the difference? What am I missing?"
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The BIG difference is that Zedekiah was in and already under the domain of Sin and therefore God was judging that sin.
Adam & Eve were not in Sin.
God never sends and evil spirit to tempt us UNLESS HE is Judging us!

EXAMPLE: 2 Thessalonians 2:9-10
The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

 

[Ziggy]

@Ziggy says: "The persons being decieved were given warning. God warned Adam and Micahaiah warned Zedekiah.
Both lost the battle.
What do you see is the difference? What am I missing?"
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The BIG difference is that Zedekiah was in and already under the domain of Sin and therefore God was judging that sin.
Adam & Eve were not in Sin.
God never sends and evil spirit to tempt us UNLESS HE is Judging us!

EXAMPLE: 2 Thessalonians 2:9-10
The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

So what was God judging when he sent Jesus into the wilderness to be tempted by Satan?

Adam, made in God's image and likeness placed in a place of grace. The only commandment given was don't eat the fruit of this tree.

Jesus, made in God's image and likeness placed in a place of law and sin. What was God's commandment to Jesus?

Jhn 10:17
Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
Jhn 10:18
No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

What did Satan tempt Jesus with?

Bread, power over all the world, his own obedience (life) .

1Jo 2:16
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

What did the serpent tempt Eve with?

Gen 3:6
And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

So we see that Eve was tempted the same way the Jesus was tempted. And neither were IN sin.

But Adam and Eve chose death, Jesus chose Life.
Adam chose disobedience, Jesus chose obedience to God.

So if the coming of the lawless one is the same which tempted Adam and Jesus, then what must we be watching out for?

fleshly desires, works of the flesh, wantonness or covetousness, and self pride, self righteousness.

Zedekiah wanted to go to war and nothing was going to stand his way.
I believe everyone is tempted by these same things in their life.
We have to choose whether we will believe God or those temptations set before us.

Jesus being born under the law and in a world of sin, had the greater temptation than Adam and Eve.
Because it's as if you say,there was no sin and no law for Adam and Eve, then their temptation should have been easier.
All she had to do was Just say No and walk away.

But these things were already present in them, lust, greed, covetousness.. and their desire to be like gods.
Otherwise there would not have been a need for temptation in the first place.

Did God create man with the ability to sin, but the only way they could recognize it would be to test it?
Rom 8:20
For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

So vanity and hope are in the hands of the creator, and we are the clay of the potter.
Would there be hope if there was no hopelessness?
First came darkness, then came light.
First came ignorance, then came enlightenment.

Act 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Adam... where art thou? Did you eat that which I commanded you not to eat?
Yes sir, I'm sorry sir. The woman and I were decieved sir, forgive us sir....

Umm nope.
He did it, she did it, the snake did it. it's the others fault, i just went for the ride...

Jesus didn't need to ask for forgiveness because he wasn't ignorant, he knew exactly who his enemy was.
And he said, go fly a kite.

This is the power he has invested in those who believe and have faith in him.

Hugs